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Hand gesture to get IRT attention when being Harassed Brought up by an attendee at the Cosplay/=consent panel

#31 User is offline   eat_me_for_I_am_peeps 

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostWingypoo, on 31 May 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

I've seen this whole topic going around on different websites and wasn't entirely sure what was going on at first. Honestly, and this is just my opinion, why is it people can't stand up for themselves or verbally ASK for help? I understand the hand sign thing (i really do) but really, don't beat around the bush with things. If the harraser isn't going to listen if you do say no/back off/leave me alone then call over IRT. Obviously this all depends on the level of the harrassment happening. I'm not gonna lie, before the con i was a little nervous to be walking around alone. First time being at one that large, didnt know the area well, etc. I was always within range of an IRT member though. If i felt like it was something i couldn't handle, I'd have said something. I felt much more relaxed after i got used to the area. This was just my personal experience. Hope this doesn't come off as rude. Just putting in my 3 cents!


Sometimes anxiety and fear get the better of you, and you just can't say anything. And sometimes making it known that you are getting help can really set people off, and say a group of people, not just men, and they could get very confrintational (my apologizes I am terrible at spelling.) And say you are with a friend and it is just you and that person, you don't want them to be in danger. And even as comfortable as you get, people can still make you worried. I've gone to ACen for years, know the area really well, but I still get nervous if someone is looking at me strangely (I hope that makes sense) or just being too pushy. So ya, there are many factors to it, and I just thought I'd explain it a little bit since you were wondering. :3

I love this idea of a hand gesture, I think it's a great, and can't wait to see how it works out.

#32 User is offline   mastermind_ninja 

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:44 PM

If the hand signal or App was available to everyone (which it should be) I would highly suggest that there would be some sort of punishment if missed used. And would also suggest that we have someone talk about it before the main events to help spread word around and maybe some posters.

#33 User is offline   Eddiebphotos 

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:15 AM

My first convention was Wizard World Chicago in 2002...I've been to 30-40 cons across the country since then and haven't seen any form of harassment ever...With that being said, A con is no different that any other public place in society. The rules of common sense that apply walking in Downtown Chicago need to apply at a con for example. If you got harassed at a mall what would you do? Get security, etc... The same applies at a con, however irt is in place and does an over the top great job in my opinion. One possible idea, how about dedicating a large room called a "safe zone" for cosplayers who would like added security? Just a thought!
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#34 User is offline   eat_me_for_I_am_peeps 

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostEddiebphotos, on 06 December 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

My first convention was Wizard World Chicago in 2002...I've been to 30-40 cons across the country since then and haven't seen any form of harassment ever...With that being said, A con is no different that any other public place in society. The rules of common sense that apply walking in Downtown Chicago need to apply at a con for example. If you got harassed at a mall what would you do? Get security, etc... The same applies at a con, however irt is in place and does an over the top great job in my opinion. One possible idea, how about dedicating a large room called a "safe zone" for cosplayers who would like added security? Just a thought!


If ACen could actually manage that, that would be an excellent idea!

#35 User is offline   Nikku 

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:29 PM

I'm surprised (may have missed it?) that no one is keeping it simple, and universal. A (T) much like how a coach orders a timeout. only for cosplay "T" is for trouble. make it big. make it clear, hands up, in a T. Only a moron wouldn't think someone doing that with a panic'd look is doing a "cosplay pose"
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Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:39 PM

I think it's really important to encourage people to actively seek help in situations like this. It's clear some people want to avoid having a confrontation, but we need to let them know that that's a better situation than getting abducted, assaulted, what have you, because no one noticed the hand signal they made or didn't know what it meant to have a red card up in the air, etc.
It would be very difficult to inform EVERYONE of the hand signal, but how much more universal can you get than shouting for help? And to be honest, in the commotion of a convention of 28,000+ people, I don't think this kind of discreet hand signal (compared to shouting, at least) would gain any attention.
The bottom line is, if you don't take action and scream for help, and no one noticed that little gesture you were making, you could very well end up in great physical danger. People need to understand that. What's preferable, feeling a little embarrassed for whatever reason that you had to confront somebody or make a scene, or ending up assaulted or much, much worse?
Encourage people to make a scene when their safety is on the line. That's the best way to ensure their safety. It comes down to the basics that you were taught as a kid. If someone tries to abduct you or hurt you, scream, punch, kick, bite, do whatever you have to do to ensure that you will be okay. Acting discreetly just isn't the way to go.
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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:47 PM

Why not just keep a loud whistle like coaches use with you? If someone threatens you, start blowing it. The attention may be embarrassing, but having the immediate attention of everyone around you will make the perv change his mind real quick.

#38 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:36 AM

May I suggest maybe keeping it to a one-handed signal, if we're going to use hand signals at all? They're easier to make quickly, and as a shorter person I find it's easier to get one hand higher and more visible than if you're trying to do something with two hands, and you would be able to wave it around more easily to grab someone's attention. Additionally, if you're worried that a confrontation might get physical, you might not want to have both hands occupied with making a hand signal and leaving yourself completely incapable of pushing someone away from you if need be.

Now, some things I'd like to point out: I'd love to suggest an additional code word/ anti-harassment safe word, but conventions are loud. You have thousands of people in a single place, talking and laughing and singing and playing music and whatnot, and just like how it might be hard for someone to see a person making a hand signal, it might be equally hard for someone to hear a person calling for help.

And with certain fandoms (the one that instantly comes to mind is Homestuck) running around with noise makers, a whistle might not get recognized as a cry for help.

I think the best solution would be to have IRT Help centers stationed around the con, particularly in areas where there aren't already IRT members all the time, and make sure that people are aware of where IRT members are located. (Off the top of my head, I can think of the elevators, the entrance to registration and the entrance to the dealer's hall. Not sure if the IRT guys in the smoking areas are on shift or not, but there's that too. After that you kinda have to just be lucky). If there are designated locations where IRT members are stationed, someone who's having a problem can either walk directly to them and ask for help, or if for whatever reason they don't want to do that, they can walk by and flash the signal so the IRT member knows to help them.

I know IRT is already stretched super thin as it is, but in general I think the idea of fixed locations where one can readily find someone from IRT is something that should be seriously considered.
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#39 User is offline   eat_me_for_I_am_peeps 

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:13 PM

[/quote]
I think the best solution would be to have IRT Help centers stationed around the con, particularly in areas where there aren't already IRT members all the time, and make sure that people are aware of where IRT members are located. (Off the top of my head, I can think of the elevators, the entrance to registration and the entrance to the dealer's hall. Not sure if the IRT guys in the smoking areas are on shift or not, but there's that too. After that you kinda have to just be lucky). If there are designated locations where IRT members are stationed, someone who's having a problem can either walk directly to them and ask for help, or if for whatever reason they don't want to do that, they can walk by and flash the signal so the IRT member knows to help them.

I know IRT is already stretched super thin as it is, but in general I think the idea of fixed locations where one can readily find someone from IRT is something that should be seriously considered.
[/quote]


I think that's an amazing idea. I know I would like it if I could go somewhere and for a fact know that someone would be there to help me.

#40 User is offline   Twifairy 

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:50 AM

View Postevaunit01berserk, on 21 May 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

In your fit of irrationality, you must have missed the part about not caring what people say about you. Could have saved you a ton of typing if you actually stopped and used your brain rather then your emotion. Each of those problems could have been solved easily

Shall I list each example for you or are you going to go on a Arm Chair tumblr activist rage about privilege?


Just like the fake c.com interviews, the solution is almost as easy as pushing the hang up button, but for some reason they stayed on the line


I feel like you're not realizing the fact that harassment, sexual or not isn't about not caring what others think, it's about whether or not you're in a bad position. You can't just think "oh whatever, he's just being weird" and walk away, something like that should be reported.
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#41 User is offline   Twifairy 

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:53 AM

I personally think this would be a great idea, since a friend of mine told me someone was following her around the con, even after talking to her. Whether or not this was true, I don't know, but I thin I the main point is that harassment is always a possibility and should be focused on.
I'm not sure a hand gesture would be extremely universal, though.
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#42 User is offline   Cisco9630 

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:06 PM

is it possible for ACen to include the signal In those booklits that are handed out to everyone? Or if the booths are required to tell every person when they pick up or purchase their badge?
Those would be a good way to spread the knowledge of this signal.


I really liked the T symbol but some people kind of use that in their daily body language (like two friends goofing off and one goes whoa (T) time out. Then you have everyone alert at two people who didn't mean the warning, but just a basic everyday symbol).

It needs to be something that really stands out and can't have an alternative meaning.

#43 User is offline   Thrif 

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:42 PM

View PostTwifairy, on 19 April 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

I feel like you're not realizing the fact that harassment, sexual or not isn't about not caring what others think, it's about whether or not you're in a bad position. You can't just think "oh whatever, he's just being weird" and walk away, something like that should be reported.



He was talking about people with the ability to rectify the situation, not rectifying the situation and ignoring the options given to them. He was mentioning how the cosplay.com interviews that turned out to be a creep having people strip on camera. Out of all the complaining about how this person "forced" them to disrobe on camera, they were on Skype and never once pushed the hangup button out of choice that they might ruin their reputation for telling a fake interviewer off.. How it applies to this case is people not informing IRT because they are afraid of being construed as a very nice lady or something.

#44 User is offline   Twifairy 

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:58 PM

View PostThrif, on 20 April 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

He was talking about people with the ability to rectify the situation, not rectifying the situation and ignoring the options given to them. He was mentioning how the cosplay.com interviews that turned out to be a creep having people strip on camera. Out of all the complaining about how this person "forced" them to disrobe on camera, they were on Skype and never once pushed the hangup button out of choice that they might ruin their reputation for telling a fake interviewer off.. How it applies to this case is people not informing IRT because they are afraid of being construed as a very nice lady or something.

I see, in that case I agree with them
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#45 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 01:25 AM

So many hand signals are used now-a-days just for fun. Things that normally could be used for a warning are, in some cases, already taken up as just normal gestures. This would have to be swiftly thought about.

On a side note, I like the idea of easy to access stations for IRT. Could we have some on different floors as well in the hotel by the rooms?
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#46 User is offline   Thrif 

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:20 AM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 03 May 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

So many hand signals are used now-a-days just for fun. Things that normally could be used for a warning are, in some cases, already taken up as just normal gestures. This would have to be swiftly thought about.

On a side note, I like the idea of easy to access stations for IRT. Could we have some on different floors as well in the hotel by the rooms?



I really do not like the idea of off the street volunteers providing "guard duty" near my hotel room. I rather call certified hotel security when there is an issue regarding actual hotel rooms

#47 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 11:11 PM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 03 May 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

So many hand signals are used now-a-days just for fun. Things that normally could be used for a warning are, in some cases, already taken up as just normal gestures. This would have to be swiftly thought about.

On a side note, I like the idea of easy to access stations for IRT. Could we have some on different floors as well in the hotel by the rooms?


The thing you need to keep in mind is that IRT, as well as every other department of the convention, is not only volunteer run but over worked as it is. Because everyone in the convention is a volunteer, and essentially "paid" in food, hotel rooms and comp badges, I imagine there's a limit to how many people they can have in any department without raising badge prices to cover the cost of everything. The idea here is to streamline things so that it's easier for IRT to do their jobs better. Not everyone is staying in the same hotel, heck not everyone is even staying in a convention affiliated hotel, so we can't really expect the convention to provide security for all of the hotels, and if they're only providing security in, say, the Hyatt, then that's not really fair to the rest of us who aren't staying there.

If you feel threatened at your hotel, either go to a crowded place or get to your hotel room as quickly as you can, and depending on the situation you can call the front desk and ask them for help. Keeping con attendees safe during convention sponsored events is the convention's job, but when it comes to keeping guests safe at the hotels, that's the responsibility of the hotels themselves and the fact that a convention is taking place on the premises doesn't change that.
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#48 User is offline   manga1 

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:37 PM

my suggestion is go with a friend that is going to be with you most of the time, or carry a means of self defence an alarm a wistle, pepperspray, or a good sturdy prop that you can use to defend yourself with like I do as a percaution, though only if a last resort, but let us not mince words the danger is there, there are tons of young adults that may not be what you would call upstanding, many have perverted minds, though those into japanese anime know the cultural differance and have half a brain about why people in costume look the way they do as well as why the characters look like they do, that said there are many many people there of differant persuasions, a fair availablillity of alcohol, caffinated teens, and among the people lots of brain issues and I dont just mean depression, add, and adhd, there among them are many perverts, pedophiles, and amoral people, combined as a type of place where people put on a differant persona and let their hair down, makes for the potential for trouble.

Be a good ninja and be aware of your surrondings at all times, and use your massive brains like many of you geeks out there have to keep safe and have a plan, but most of all have fun :highfive: :shuriken:

#49 User is offline   Thrif 

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:23 PM

The more i think about this, I don't think this would work well unless said stalker is of low intelligence or just to stupid to realize their victim is suddenly doing random hand motions out of the blue. This then brings back the issue of "too scared to notify IRT"

This post has been edited by Thrif: 05 May 2014 - 11:24 PM


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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:58 AM

I just wanted to point out that while this isn't a perfect solution (because the only perfect solution is to stop people from behaving that way, no victim-centric solution is ever going to be perfect) if it can help even one person be safer, I think it's worth trying to implement. If the con were to officially back a hand signal and put it in the booklet (or whatever), that alone would help to foster an environment where this problem is more openly talked about and this in turn leads to 3rd party interventions, which is huge. People who harass are just one in a crowd of hundreds, if others in the crowd are aware of what to look for and willing to step in, that would help.

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 11:27 PM

Along those lines, the convention implementing a clearly defined harassment policy might might be a good thing, too. A lot of conventions have been doing it these days, and I think it's important. I know it seems like a common sense thing, but clearly if we're talking about it, it's not.
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#52 User is offline   Thrif 

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:30 AM

View PostKaay-chan, on 25 May 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Along those lines, the convention implementing a clearly defined harassment policy might might be a good thing, too. A lot of conventions have been doing it these days, and I think it's important. I know it seems like a common sense thing, but clearly if we're talking about it, it's not.


Unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you can't fix stupid

#53 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:59 PM

View PostThrif, on 26 May 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

Unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you can't fix stupid


Yeah, but we can try.

And if nothing else, I think the convention saying "we're watching you" might serve as more of a deterrent than we give credit for, if that makes any sense.
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#54 User is offline   Thrif 

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:16 AM

View PostKaay-chan, on 26 May 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Yeah, but we can try.

And if nothing else, I think the convention saying "we're watching you" might serve as more of a deterrent than we give credit for, if that makes any sense.

Yeah but for the we are watching you deterrent to work, you actually have to have visible repercussions.

Very obvious moving cameras would help :P

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