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Badge Issue

#1 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:07 PM

I spent this afternoon speaking with the consumer rights advocacy hotline at the Illinois Attorney Generalís office about ACENís policy to charge if badges were not delivered. I also took one of my lawyers to lunch to get a little bit of free legal advice.

First, as to Mr. Turnerís comments on GenConís policy about loss of mailed badges, they also mail out badges far in advance of the con to allow ample time for delivery. As a past attendee of their convention, I know that my badge was postmarked well in advance of the con, and arrived in a timely manner. At the time, however, I lived in a suburb with timely postal response. Unfortunately, Riverside, Illinois, does not possess such timely postal service. For example, one of my neighbors mailed me a Christmas card on 15 December, and lives a mere seven blocks from my home (still Riverside). It arrived 23 January. You can see how your untimely posting of my badge is concerning (especially in light of the fact my registration was postmarked 21 February).

As for your replacement policy, I have been told it constitutes mail fraud. If you do not use a traceable shipping method, the burden of proof that I received the badge on time falls on MAPS, not me. You chose to trust the USPS that my time-sensitive purchase would arrive, and that is not my problem. You also say that people may attempt to game the system to get free badges, which is, again, not my problem. You should have sent the badges a very long time ago to ensure proper delivery. All of this is pretty clearly written out by the USPS in the publications and web pages of the Office of the Postal Inspector General, and I suggest you visit the site.

Beyond that, the Uniform Commercial Code of the Illinois Compiled Statues (810 ILCS 5/) offers every congoer protection from your failure to provide time-sensitive product as agreed to before the execution of the sale. By cashing my check, you agreed to grant me access to the con for the duration of the con (all-con badge, not a 1-day or 2-day badge), that it would be a special edition 10th anniversary badge (I upgraded), and that it would be mailed to me directly. Failure to comply with all three of those agreed to terms would constitute violation of our sales contract formed by the transaction, and agreed to by MAPS when they cashed my check.

Overall, I know that the postman calls on my home each day at about 10:15 am. If the badge is not in his stack of parcels on or before the 10 May, I will be filing suit against MAPS under the terms of 810 ILCS 5/Art 2 for compensation for my non-delivered badge, legal fees, miscellaneous fees, lost pay for court appearances, interest on monies sought from date of purchase, and for punitive damages for fraud and misrepresentation of goods by noon that same day. I will also be filing a complaint with the Illinois AGís office and the Postal IGís offices, and seeking out Mr. Turner at the con to serve him with papers stating as much.

In the mean time, I encourage people who do not receive their badges in time to attend the con to send me an email at classaction@acencomplaints.com. If this turns into a major issue, and I am not able to attend because of the illegal conduct of the con, I will be interested in organizing the separate complaints into a suit with class status against MAPS. I suggest they re-think their strategy before things degrade that far.


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#2 User is offline   VampireLowell 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:09 PM

View PostACEN Complaints, on May 2 2007, 08:07 PM, said:

I spent this afternoon speaking with the consumer rights advocacy hotline at the Illinois Attorney General’s office about ACEN’s policy to charge if badges were not delivered. I also took one of my lawyers to lunch to get a little bit of free legal advice.
...
In the mean time, I encourage people who do not receive their badges in time to attend the con to send me an email at classaction@acencomplaints.com. If this turns into a major issue, and I am not able to attend because of the illegal conduct of the con, I will be interested in organizing the separate complaints into a suit with class status against MAPS. I suggest they re-think their strategy before things degrade that far.
JAJ


Thanks...mind putting this in the other thread we got as well? xD we got hundreds of badge threads already :)

edited:

Eh, I got nothing better to do. I'll do copy pasta it over.
Uh, hi!

Send me a pm if there's anything I could probably help with that is within reason of my current position and knowledge(con-goer).

Hope to meet some of you!

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#3 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:28 PM

View PostVampireLowell, on May 2 2007, 08:09 PM, said:

Thanks...mind putting this in the other thread we got as well? xD we got hundreds of badge threads already :)

edited:

Eh, I got nothing better to do. I'll do copy pasta it over.


New topic here: http://www.acen.org/forums/index.php?showt...mp;#entry396533
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#4 User is offline   agent_sandz 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:57 PM

View PostACEN Complaints, on May 2 2007, 08:07 PM, said:

I spent this afternoon speaking with the consumer rights advocacy hotline at the Illinois Attorney General’s office about ACEN’s policy to charge if badges were not delivered. I also took one of my lawyers to lunch to get a little bit of free legal advice.
...
In the mean time, I encourage people who do not receive their badges in time to attend the con to send me an email at classaction@acencomplaints.com. If this turns into a major issue, and I am not able to attend because of the illegal conduct of the con, I will be interested in organizing the separate complaints into a suit with class status against MAPS. I suggest they re-think their strategy before things degrade that far.
Joe Johnson
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www.stophb1500.com



Thanks for posting that. It will be useful if a large group of people are in the same predicament.

#5 User is offline   heichama 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:53 PM

See now, this is exactly what I expected to happen the second I read about the extra fee.
They had to have seen this kind of response coming.

If everything goes down hill, count me in.
Still crossin' my fingers that everything will work out, though.

#6 User is offline   arcthelad 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:05 PM

I for penny in for a pound. Count me in

#7 User is offline   firegirl26 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:22 PM

aren't we being a little over dramatic
For acen 2012 will be cosplaying STEAMPUNK
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#8 User is offline   VampireLowell 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:22 PM

View Postfiregirl26, on May 2 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

aren't we being a little over dramatic


Nope. Not really.
Uh, hi!

Send me a pm if there's anything I could probably help with that is within reason of my current position and knowledge(con-goer).

Hope to meet some of you!

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#9 User is offline   DJFLuFFKiNS 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:26 PM

Guys I'm going to trim down the quoting of the guy if you don't mind... it's just kinda long because you copied the entire thing. If you want it back please PM me I'll put it back up.
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#10 User is offline   VampireLowell 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:27 PM

View PostDJFLuFFKiNS, on May 2 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

Guys I'm going to trim down the quoting of the guy if you don't mind... it's just kinda long because you copied the entire thing. If you want it back please PM me I'll put it back up.


lol, yeah it is a bit long when quoting.

I think the responses towards the Op's post is enough per post.
Uh, hi!

Send me a pm if there's anything I could probably help with that is within reason of my current position and knowledge(con-goer).

Hope to meet some of you!

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#11 User is offline   DJFLuFFKiNS 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:33 PM

View Postfiregirl26, on May 2 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

aren't we being a little over dramatic



He's just mearly stating this is his intent if he does not receive his badge on the 10th.
It might be presumptuous to have already gotten the domain...
Just so everyone knows... I'm not going to post my legal or personal opinion besides to say, cases are rarely open and shut. Just keep that in mind should you choose to take this approach, I honestly don't want anyone to regret the loss of legal fees in such an action. Also to say, based on just how our legal system works, class action suits usually end up helping the lawyers and not the injured parties (at least not to a reasonable remedy).
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#12 User is offline   RRspud 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:39 PM

Well some of use leave before the tenth... Some people across the country leave way before the 10th... When they filled out the option to get it mailed never said when they will get it nor stated when it will be mailed out... Plus for me legal expensive wont cost because I be in the Navy xP So hopefully Legal would take the case over.
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#13 User is offline   `Aygen` 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:39 PM

O.O ... Wow.


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#14 User is offline   Kyuu 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:39 PM

View PostDJFLuFFKiNS, on May 2 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

He's just mearly stating this is his intent if he does not receive his badge on the 10th.
It might be presumptuous to have already gotten the domain...
Just so everyone knows... I'm not going to post my legal or personal opinion besides to say, cases are rarely open and shut. Just keep that in mind should you choose to take this approach, I honestly don't want anyone to regret the loss of legal fees in such an action. Also to say, based on just how our legal system works, class action suits usually end up helping the lawyers and not the injured parties (at least not to a reasonable remedy).


Which could potentially have a bigger loss? This lawsuit - or omitting the lost badge fee on opening night?
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. -- Ferris Bueller

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#15 User is offline   stfatherabraham 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:25 PM

View PostACEN Complaints, on May 2 2007, 08:07 PM, said:

*dramatic, self-important drivel*

Wow.

Aren't we the petty, vindicative twit.
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#16 User is offline   VampireLowell 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:29 PM

View Poststfatherabraham, on May 2 2007, 11:25 PM, said:

Wow.

Aren't we the petty, vindicative twit.


Is that really necessary.? I mean I know how the whole lawyer thing sueing post definitely seems dramatic but is flaming really a necessary and appropriate response?
Uh, hi!

Send me a pm if there's anything I could probably help with that is within reason of my current position and knowledge(con-goer).

Hope to meet some of you!

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#17 User is offline   stfatherabraham 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:38 PM

Is a class-action suit against an NPO really an appropriate response? I've mostly bit my tongue through this dramafest up until now, but this isn't just dramatic, this is absurd.

Twenty-five dollars, people. I can't imagine that people who can afford to travel long distances and stay at a hotel for a weekend to attend a convention can't at least borrow $25.
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#18 User is offline   kataimiko 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:45 PM

View Postfiregirl26, on May 2 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

aren't we being a little over dramatic



exactly what I was thinking. >____>


I have yet to receive my badge, but I would never go as far as suing anyone. I think that is verging on silly and moronic.

yes, it is sad that we may have to pay to get a replacement badge, but there are much worse things that can happen in life. I think we all have it too easy and need to stop bickering and stressing the little things.

If people are so incredibly angered by this badge situation, then I do not think they should be attending Acen to begin with. The rest of us do not want someone as angry as them dampening the conventions overall mood.

#19 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:50 PM

View Postfiregirl26, on May 2 2007, 10:22 PM, said:

aren't we being a little over dramatic


Not particularly. People can't just decide to arbitrarily change the terms of a sale after the transaction is complete. Would they idly comply if I demanded they pay me $25 becuase I lost my badge due to my own negligence? Kind of like a fee for my time spent standing in line to buy a new one. That doesn't even make sense, I know, but hang in there ...

The only reason they can make a rule like this now that they have everyone's money is because they have all the power. I've seen 5000 thrown around as a number of people who did the pre-reg with the mailed badge upgrade. Let's say that things are really bad and 1000 of them were screwed. Even if I got a petition along the lines of "ACEN Sucks" and got all 1000 people to sign it and vow never to attend again, what does it matter to the people who run the con? Besides, how many of those 1000 do you think would really stay away forever? I probably wouldn't, because there's no where else to go in Chicago. Yeah, Reactor, but I may as well take my flush my money down the toilet.

In order to gain any power to get a reasonable solution from ACEN, we need to do something drastic and over the top. We also need to remember this isn't our problem; it's ACEN's. Who knows, maybe my badge will be in the mail tomorrow and this will all be a non-issue.



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View Poststfatherabraham, on May 2 2007, 11:25 PM, said:

Aren't we the petty, vindicative twit.


Says the troll.

Do you have a real opinion, or are you just going to sit there taking up space?


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#20 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:53 PM

View Poststfatherabraham, on May 2 2007, 11:38 PM, said:

Is a class-action suit against an NPO really an appropriate response? I've mostly bit my tongue through this dramafest up until now, but this isn't just dramatic, this is absurd.

Twenty-five dollars, people. I can't imagine that people who can afford to travel long distances and stay at a hotel for a weekend to attend a convention can't at least borrow $25.


$1 or $1 Million, wrong is still wrong. And as far as MAPS being an NPO, that does not mean they are a charity, either. They decided to try and dictate terms after they completed the transaction. In what crazy, messed-up universe is that legal? Honestly?


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#21 User is offline   kataimiko 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:56 PM

Dear Acen Complaints:


is double posting entirely necessary?

<_<

#22 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:57 PM

View Postkataimiko, on May 2 2007, 11:45 PM, said:

exactly what I was thinking. >____>
I have yet to receive my badge, but I would never go as far as suing anyone. I think that is verging on silly and moronic.

yes, it is sad that we may have to pay to get a replacement badge, but there are much worse things that can happen in life. I think we all have it too easy and need to stop bickering and stressing the little things.

If people are so incredibly angered by this badge situation, then I do not think they should be attending Acen to begin with. The rest of us do not want someone as angry as them dampening the conventions overall mood.


So, you would be okay with pre-paying for a tank of gas, and then going back to your car only to find out they're out of gas and will not refund your money. Oh, but you can buy this other gas they have for only $10, because they don't want to cause any hard feelings. Oh, and lots of other gas stations do it, too, so it's all good.

Tell me, would you honestly tell yourself, "oh, it's only $10, no biggie"? Seriously.


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#23 User is offline   stfatherabraham 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:58 PM

I, for one, fully support the solution put forth in this thread:

http://www.acen.org/...topic=17256&hl=

I do not find reason to believe that there will be no refinement of the registration system next year. This hasn't just been a headache for the people shouting, of that I'm sure. The staff, doubtless, will not want a repeat incident of this sort.

Primarily, I oppose your dramatic shock tactics. You're doing nothing but hurt. Though I find the whole of the situation to be regrettable, it's stuff like this that leaves me with very little sympathy for your plight.
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#24 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:58 PM

View Postkataimiko, on May 2 2007, 11:56 PM, said:

Dear Acen Complaints:
is double posting entirely necessary?

<_<


VampireLowell reposted. Ask them.


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#25 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:07 PM

View Poststfatherabraham, on May 2 2007, 11:58 PM, said:

Primarily, I oppose your dramatic shock tactics. You're doing nothing but hurt. Though I find the whole of the situation to be regrettable, it's stuff like this that leaves me with very little sympathy for your plight.


That's how things work. Someone screws you, you threaten to sue, they compromise. 95% of civil suits never see the courthouse after they've been filed.

But, I guess it's too much to expect someone to understand when I try to fight back against the people trying to extort money out of me.


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#26 User is offline   sisterdiscord 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:13 PM

View PostACEN Complaints, on May 3 2007, 04:50 AM, said:

Even if I got a petition along the lines of "ACEN Sucks" and got all 1000 people to sign it and vow never to attend again, what does it matter to the people who run the con?


It matters. With everything that has been going on, and all the badge drama, the one thing I don't ever want you or any one here to think is that it doesn't matter.

It very much matters.

It matters to the people who pre-regged and wanted conveniently delivered badges in the mail, to avoid lines.
It matters to all of us on staff who went "WOOT yeah!" at the capability of getting those badges to attendees via a clean, simple, line-free process.
It matters to Rabbi, and Dave B, and the folks from Jayson, Dave, and Taz's staffs who spent hours rewriting reg from the bottom up.
It matters to everybody who spent time entering attendee payments, processing checks, and inputting and correcting misspelled email addresses.
It matters to me, because they're all part of my team, and because all of the attendees are the reason I do this every year.
It matters to the 30+ staff who spent weekends and off-work/school hours processing, stamping, sticking, and labeling. (Thank god for self-sticking envelopes!)
It matters to Beryl and Audra who stayed up until five AM every night for weeks making sure that someone was manning the office so that when volunteers showed up at crazy hours to help out, there would be someone there to meet them.
It matters to you, or you wouldn't have kept reading this insane ramble.

We all want those badges to get there, guys, and we all worked our collective rears off trying to make it happen. It didn't go as planned, and we're working through that, but please don't ever think that it doesn't matter, or that YOU don't matter. That is most certainly not the case and never will be.

We'll get through this. We'll figure it out. And I'll see you at ACen.
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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:17 PM

Oh Jesus Christ people...Come on, seriously...The con isn't here yet, if badges haven't arrived for you the day you leave, take it up with the people directly when you get there. What good is it doing to talk of lawsuits and whatnot on a forums page? Maybe if you spoke to them directly, they could resolve the matter with you in a civil and just manner. Flinging threats of suing isn't getting you anywhere. Seriously....Please let's just calm down.
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#28 User is offline   anonmousie 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:29 PM

View Postsisterdiscord, on May 2 2007, 10:13 PM, said:

It matters. With everything that has been going on, and all the badge drama, the one thing I don't ever want you or any one here to think is that it doesn't matter.

It very much matters.

It matters to the people who pre-regged and wanted conveniently delivered badges in the mail, to avoid lines.
It matters to all of us on staff who went "WOOT yeah!" at the capability of getting those badges to attendees via a clean, simple, line-free process.
It matters to Rabbi, and Dave B, and the folks from Jayson, Dave, and Taz's staffs who spent hours rewriting reg from the bottom up.
It matters to everybody who spent time entering attendee payments, processing checks, and inputting and correcting misspelled email addresses.
It matters to me, because they're all part of my team, and because all of the attendees are the reason I do this every year.
It matters to the 30+ staff who spent weekends and off-work/school hours processing, stamping, sticking, and labeling. (Thank god for self-sticking envelopes!)
It matters to Beryl and Audra who stayed up until five AM every night for weeks making sure that someone was manning the office so that when volunteers showed up at crazy hours to help out, there would be someone there to meet them.
It matters to you, or you wouldn't have kept reading this insane ramble.

We all want those badges to get there, guys, and we all worked our collective rears off trying to make it happen. It didn't go as planned, and we're working through that, but please don't ever think that it doesn't matter, or that YOU don't matter. That is most certainly not the case and never will be.

We'll get through this. We'll figure it out. And I'll see you at ACen.
Love!
Rosa




If it mattered so much, why were the badges sent as bulk mail, with no way to track their progress?

Someone made a bad choice. Beryl made an even worse choice when he decided that the addional $25 fee was a reasonable response.

Worst case scenario. Say 3000 con-goers don't get their badge in time for the convention. 3000 x $25 = $75,000. That is an awful lot of money ACen is going to be receiving.

#29 User is offline   ACEN Complaints 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:33 PM

View PostBurijit, on May 3 2007, 12:17 AM, said:

Oh Jesus Christ people...Come on, seriously...The con isn't here yet, if badges haven't arrived for you the day you leave, take it up with the people directly when you get there. What good is it doing to talk of lawsuits and whatnot on a forums page? Maybe if you spoke to them directly, they could resolve the matter with you in a civil and just manner. Flinging threats of suing isn't getting you anywhere. Seriously....Please let's just calm down.


They've already stated policy. What here (so far) should make me think that showing up on the 10th and demanding a badge will change that policy? I just wanted to say that as of right now I don't have a badge. I don't mind not getting it until the 10th, just saves me from loosing it. However, if it isn't here and they won't budge on the $25 replacement policy, I'm not going to sit back and take it.

As for calming down, I, for one, am calm. There are still 7 days to get my badge, and I have enough hope left in me that it will arrive on time. By the 10th, though, I will make no gaurantee as to my mood.


Joe Johnson
joe@sendjoeanemail.com
www.hikarukujo.com
www.stophb1500.com

View Postsisterdiscord, on May 3 2007, 12:13 AM, said:

It matters. With everything that has been going on, and all the badge drama, the one thing I don't ever want you or any one here to think is that it doesn't matter.

It very much matters.

...

We'll get through this. We'll figure it out. And I'll see you at ACen.
Love!
Rosa


Thank you, Rosa!


Joe Johnson
joe@sendjoeanemail.com
www.hikarukujo.com
www.stophb1500.com
Joe Johnson
joe@sendjoeanemail.com
www.hikarukujo.com
www.stophb1500.com

#30 User is offline   HaruHE 

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:36 PM

No one said you had to take it, I don't agree with the whole 25 dollar charge thing myself, but you never know, perhaps talking to them about it, or getting a group to talk to them about it. (You all meet up and approach the stand.) Perhaps they'll see it was a mistake. I'm just trying to give different approaches. =/ They may or may not work/be right. I just don't want to see people at ends with eachother. Peace my brethren!
Once more returned to the forums. 2013 ideas:
Hieda No Akyu: Project Touhou
Shadow Yukiko Amagi: Persona 4
Kyouko Sakura (Magic form): Magi Madoka Magica

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