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Your thoughts on Pirating Anime/Manga

#1 User is offline   Washu Takahashi 

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

Just a tid-bit of background info: I had to write a 12-20 page paper on an issue involving ethics and leadership for a class. And this was the topic I chose. I've only done the rough draft so far though and turned that in, and was curious to see if anyone else had insight I could toss in the final draft.

As I'm going to assume most of you are aware, pirating is a HUGE issue in our community. With the internet at our disposal, we can view anime and manga for free to our heart's content. The question is, are you aware how much this hurts our community? When you view anime and manga for free (speaking illegally only, I'll get into legal options in a moment), no money is going back into the industry. What does that mean? It means it's far less likely for Funimation or Viz or whoever to take your favorite series, license it, and distribute it in English. If you're one of those people who thinks "whatever, my help won't save the industry", remember that there are thousands, if not millions, of other thinking the exact same thing, and it really does hurt the industry, especially if you're one of those people who has billions of dollars worth of anime/manga on your harddrive.

Negative impacts: Tokyopop shut down in 2010. Bandai stopped releasing hard copies of manga/anime and made them available only for online distribution shortly after.

Personally, I view manga and anime illegally online, as I'm sure most of you do. But I also own over 400+ manga and about 30 anime series. Almost every series that I get into online I later purchase. I haven't bought EVERYTHING I've seen online, but I own a pretty big chunk of it. Everyone's first line of defense when it comes to this is "I just don't have the money"

Free (or extremely cheap) ways to legally view anime:
Funimation.com (or their youtube page)
Viz.com
Crunchyroll
Hulu (or hulu+)
Netflix
Library (also good for manga)
Friends/Share Circles (manga too)

There are also apps for e-readers and smart phones that sell manga volumes dirt cheap. And the biggest catch with the previous options are having to sit through a minute or two of ads.

So really, there's no excuse for "not being able to afford it" when you have all these free/cheap LEGAL options. (And no, sites like mangafox, mangareader, etc, are NOT legal) There is of course the exception of manga/anime that's never licensed in the US, but that's a different story.

Annnndddd...that's about all I have for you guys in a nutshell. Argue with me and tell me my points are wrong, or bring up your own points/thoughts on this topic. I'm interested in what anyone has to say on the matter :3

This post has been edited by Washu Takahashi: 12 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

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#2 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

I definitely agree. People LOVE to use crutches and excuses to curb blame or to justify their actions. Really nothing to refute on your post. Someone will always make an excuse to pirate tho. (btw they might edit your post. Naming sites that pirate get the edit stick. Lol) netflix is just awesome. And crunchyroll is respectable. I generally stick to those. (tho i wish they had multi dub options on anime on netflix. I like and enjoy some english dub. But there are some anime (ahem desert punk) i cant stand in english. (i own desert punk, so no skin of my back. Lol) funimation dubs are very VERY hit and miss with me.

Anywho. Agreed.

Actually one thing. Im not a fan of the " do this, because a lot people think this, and you change and thought differently they might too." I find the argument weak in general, and is too hypothetical (its schrodingers cat) to be conclusive.

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 12 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:44 PM

I'd be interested in reading your paper (only if you wanted to allow me to read it). I'm quite interested to see the deep facts of how pirating affects the anime/manga industry by the numbers kind of thing. Very cool.
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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:41 PM

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK-noqpMhQE[/media]

Greg and Chris Ayres do a wonderful panel on this, actually. If they were invited or responded to as guests, ACen could probably convince them to do it.
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#5 User is offline   Dex_Link 

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:25 PM

I'd be interested in reading this paper.
I'll admit, I haven't bought anime or manga since Viz started publishing Shonen Jump back in 2003, but I'm pretty up to date on alot as I pirate the crap of it all, and I dont really ever intend to stop that. I see no reason to view anime/manga through legal channels, when it is so easily accessible otherwise... oh, interwebs, how you make life so easy...

This post has been edited by Dex_Link: 13 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

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#6 User is offline   rondo 

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:34 AM

View PostWashu Takahashi, on 12 March 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Personally, I view manga and anime illegally online, as I'm sure most of you do.


I do not. My ridiculously large catalog of anime is a testament to that.

As for manga, what about that situation where people will read them in the bookstore with no intention of buying?

This post has been edited by rondo: 13 March 2013 - 07:35 AM


#7 User is offline   Keiichi-chan 

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

as for the small amount of anime i still watch, i use a legal alternative if there is one, i.e, streaming it on funimation's site or hulu. but honestly, i'm not enough of an anime fan anymore to feel bad about not buying dvds unless i plan to watch the series a ton, or want to support a series that desperately needs my support.


as for manga, i have more than a bookshelf full of it, and if i really love a series, i buy it; there are exceptions, though. if the company does sloppy art editing and lazy or poorly-written translations, sorry, i'm not purchasing the product. i don't enjoy viz's shonen jump line translations (viz signature's translations tend to be really well-written), for the most part, so i don't buy them, even though they licensed my second favorite manga of all time. i own ALL the copies of it put out by the original company - but how readable the translation is, or isn't, is the ultimate deciding factor for me.

lack of accountability is definitely a huge factor, since it's stealing via the internet, though. i realize that reading manga online with no intent to buy it, is pretty much the same as going into a library and reading it, or putting it into my pocket without paying, but it doesn't feel as egregious. also, like i said, i purchase everything i really enjoy, as long as the writing isn't awful.

This post has been edited by Keiichi-chan: 13 March 2013 - 12:34 PM


#8 User is offline   Washu Takahashi 

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:50 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 12 March 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Actually one thing. Im not a fan of the " do this, because a lot people think this, and you change and thought differently they might too." I find the argument weak in general, and is too hypothetical (its schrodingers cat) to be conclusive.


My argument there isn't so much if you don't pirate, other people won't, but that you shouldn't do it thinking it doesn't have an effect because you're "only one person." Definitely going to re-check my paper and make sure my wording on that issue sounds okay though :3

View PostKrystal, on 12 March 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK-noqpMhQEGreg[/media] and Chris Ayres do a wonderful panel on this, actually. If they were invited or responded to as guests, ACen could probably convince them to do it.


I only listened to the first couple minutes, but I'm definitely going to listen to all the parts before I start editing my paper! I'm sure there's something useful in there, thanks for the link ^^ And I'd love to see them do a panel on this. I attended a panel...I think at Anime Midwest? where Greg was at and he touched on piracy and it was really interesting. I wish I had known I was writing this paper then and I would have taken notes xD

View Postrondo, on 13 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I do not. My ridiculously large catalog of anime is a testament to that.As for manga, what about that situation where people will read them in the bookstore with no intention of buying?


I commend you for not pirating at all. Personally, I usually can't motivate myself to buy a series I haven't at least read/watched some of previously. (Though a I have a pretty decent collection of stuff that I bought 'just cause' and ended up loving it anyways) I actually didn't think of/mention the bookstore reading issue, I'm going to have to work that into my paper somehow!

View PostGITS SAC Motoko, on 12 March 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I'd be interested in reading your paper (only if you wanted to allow me to read it). I'm quite interested to see the deep facts of how pirating affects the anime/manga industry by the numbers kind of thing. Very cool.

View PostDex_Link, on 12 March 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

I'd be interested in reading this paper.


Oh no ^^' I hope it doesn't disappoint you guys too much xD It doesn't so much get into the numbers or anything like that, most of it is pretty general information that any big anime fan would know, because the paper is mainly supposed to be about the ethics/leadership involved in the issue. (And the first like two pages are literally just explaining what manga/anime is, and the prices xD) It's a pretty terrible, but it covers all the basic points. If you guys had any feedback/recommendations, I'd love to hear them. And this is my first time attempting to use google docs to share something, so let me know if it doesn't work.

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing
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#9 User is offline   Bard-kun 

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:23 AM

I used to be very firmly against any form of anime/manga piracy; I got into it while you could only get it on VHS, got a job in part to pay for the habit, and made sure any anime clubs I ran didn't show pirated material.

But as I got older, the supply of licensed material got dwarfed by the supply of pirated material. Why would I wait months upon months upon months to buy an episode of Bleach on DVD when I could just torrent it in hours? Why would I wait god knows how long to read Bakuman in a printed or officially scanlated release when I could just google "bakuman vol. 10"? It was, and still is, incredibly difficult to resist the always-there, always-free stuff the internet puts out.

I pay to stream Crunchyroll and I buy the occasional manga. I still read scanlations from time to time, and if it's something I enjoy I buy the licensed version once it shows up on store shelves. I feel a little queasy doing it, but...yeah.
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#10 User is offline   pyrrhicvictini 

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:45 AM

If I really enjoy an anime, I will most likely buy it. On occasion I will buy a manga (I am currently trying to purchase all of the FMA books, despite some of the alterations,) but I'm very picky when it comes to buying translated manga that may be altered more than necessary in wording? (Or is that not a problem anymore?)

Otherwise, I go to Hulu, Crunchyroll, etc. I'm paranoid of getting caught, but to be honest, if it's not provided on Hulu or Crunchyroll, I'm very encouraged to go download it, especially if I don't know whether or not I'll like it.

What has proven to curb online piracy are things such as hulu, netflix, & even for music, things like pandora & spotify. People are willing to get it legally if it only costs a few minutes of sitting few advertisements. I'd even be willing to watch it for free if it had just as many advertisements as cable does.
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#11 User is offline   feuerwerke 

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

Pretty much the only valid reasons to pirate anime/manga are as follows:

-There is no legit release, or it's out of print. Hi, Nodame Cantabile. You should probably buy it if you liked it and it does get licensed, though. I'll be buying Rose of Versailles for sure.
-The only legit release is terrible. Be it in situations like Shaman King's anime where the only legit release is heavily edited, or situations where there's something wrong with the disc or it has an awful translation or whatever else.

Those I really cannot fault anyone for turning to piracy over. I also have a couple things that I consider a grey area. I, for one, will not buy crazy long shonen titles because that is just way too much money to spend, and it takes up way too much space. I love One Piece, but I do not have the money to pay for all of it, and I do not have space for it on my bookshelf. Honestly, the model for these series is supposed to be that you read it in disposable manga magazines/watch it on TV, then purchase the tankobon with your favorite chapters and/or DVDs with your favorite episodes. They aren't designed for you to buy every single volume of manga or anime. It's crazy to expect someone to do that for one of those behemoths, unless of course they don't read or watch anything else. Also there are some shows that I won't buy, at least not until I've seen it for free or cheap, because I don't know if I'll like it or it's a guilty pleasure type show. I like some generic ecchi stuff but I'm not going to buy it, at least not at full price.

For the most part, though, buy stuff, guys. The majority of my anime consumption is via crunchyroll and legitimate releases these days, and to be honest I think you're being ridiculous if you are in a country with access to crunchyroll and you choose to pirate a show that they have.

That said, though, I cringe when anti-piracy types rage at shows CR has getting fansubbed. CR region-blocks most non-US countries (not their fault, their contracts' faults, but the result is the same). Some people really need to stop being so America-centric on this issue.
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#12 User is offline   Shiggitay 

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:12 AM

To be completely honest, I do download fansubs of stuff I like watching, and whenever I have the extra money I do indeed get the DVDs, and maybe when those get obsolete like the VHS tech did, BluRAYs. I personally don't find it 'wrong' or 'illegal' if the series doesn't have a license here in the US. I've done this on more than one occasion. I downloaded and watched Haruhi season 1 as it was airing (out of order and it was funny as hell, even if I was confused as hell too), but then I preordered and obtained the DVD boxset and it's on my shelf collecting dust. lol. I have a lot of fansubbed anime that's never seen the light in the US, so that's the only way I've been able to see it. I say if you're not comfortable with XDCC bots on iRC or if you're not comfortable with BitTorrent and the like, stick with CrunchyRoll/Netflix/Hulu(Plus) and the like. Even though I am admitting to have a decent selection of fansubbed material, doesn't mean I am condoning or encouraging you guys to do it unless you want to and have the means to do so. The OP wanted our thoughts, and these are mine.
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