[YoungBirdcall]

TheStrongJaeger, on 13 September 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

That's an awfully big assumption to assume that the average Chicago teacher graduated college at 19 or 20, landed a teaching job immediately and has been in the same job for 20 years. Plenty of people don't start their careers till later in life.

Well, in order to get to that 70K pay level, teachers progress through something called a "Scale" system. Teachers progress up the scale (which is usually comprised of about 20 steps) after each consecutive year of teaching at an individual school, moving up 1 level per year. No teacher at a Chicago public school starts out anywhere near 70K, so if that's the average wage, and the average age is just over 40, then yes, most of them did land a teaching job immediately out of college and have been in the same job for ~20 years.

[TheStrongJaeger]

YoungBirdcall, on 14 September 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Well, in order to get to that 70K pay level, teachers progress through something called a "Scale" system. Teachers progress up the scale (which is usually comprised of about 20 steps) after each consecutive year of teaching at an individual school, moving up 1 level per year. No teacher at a Chicago public school starts out anywhere near 70K, so if that's the average wage, and the average age is just over 40, then yes, most of them did land a teaching job immediately out of college and have been in the same job for ~20 years.

And if that's true then you have a valid point. Do you happen to have a source on what the average starting pay is for a Chicago teacher? Since you've said "No teacher at a Chicago public school starts out anywhere near 70K," and I've not been able to find anything to confirm or deny this.

[rondo]

Hmm, if 70k or so is the average, who is getting the top end salaries to even out the whole scale?

[YoungBirdcall]

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, [the average Chicago public school teacher's salary is] more like $56,000."

http://jezebel.com/5...rs-union-strike

If you want to do the heavy lifting, here's the Bureau of Labor Statistics link to the Chicago metropolitan area for 2011. It confirms the claim made in the above article. The average starting salary for a Chicago public school teacher is ~$40,000.

[Jguy]

I'm personally with Sentinel on this one. $72,000 a year and they want more? Get real. The average teacher around my suburb (Batavia) is only $60,000 a year, and we're considered one of the highest paid in the tri-cities. St. Charles is considered "richer" but they only make $52,000 a year. Geneva, I see $60,000-$62,000 a year.

Look at it this way: They're also bickering about class sizes. Yeah, they're bad, but to reduce them, they need to build more schools, hire more teachers AND give the already hired teachers more money? Wat. Emanuel has already mentioned that he'll have to close schools to give them more money, thus increasing class sizes some more.

"The school district has offered average wage increases of 16 percent over four years plus some benefit improvements. It is not clear how Emanuel will pay for those since the district faces a $665 million budget deficit this year, has drained financial reserves and levied property taxes to the legal limit."

16% of 72k is 11,520.
16% of 56k is 8,960.

If someone was going to give me that kind of raise, I wouldn't argue and strike about it, I would take it.

the sad part is, they're using the kids as leverage AND they waited until a few days after school starts so they would get full benefits regardless if they were on strike or not. Had the school year not started, they wouldn't have gotten all the benefits if they were on strike. That's what irritates me out of the whole thing.

So now, I bet Illinois passes the same union laws and regulations that Wisconsin did a couple of years ago, by the end of next year.

[kahad]

Jguy, on 14 September 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

So now, I bet Illinois passes the same union laws and regulations that Wisconsin did a couple of years ago, by the end of next year.

I wish. Democrats do not have the balls to.

[TheStrongJaeger]

YoungBirdcall, on 14 September 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, [the average Chicago public school teacher's salary is] more like $56,000."

http://jezebel.com/5...rs-union-strike

If you want to do the heavy lifting, here's the Bureau of Labor Statistics link to the Chicago metropolitan area for 2011. It confirms the claim made in the above article. The average starting salary for a Chicago public school teacher is ~$40,000.

Thanks, that's actually really helpful. I'll need to dig into this further a little later. But even if the starting salary is around $40,000 that's still pretty close to the national median income. So making close to the national average starting(not counting benefits) is not that bad in my opinion.

[YoungBirdcall]

TheStrongJaeger, on 14 September 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Thanks, that's actually really helpful. I'll need to dig into this further a little later. But even if the starting salary is around $40,000 that's still pretty close to the national median income. So making close to the national average starting (not counting benefits) is not that bad in my opinion.

The national median income takes into account part-time employees (think high school and college students) along with minimum wage earners. So I don't think it's a fair argument to say that teachers should just be happy with their pay because they're "making close to the national average".

[YoungBirdcall]

Jguy, on 14 September 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm personally with Sentinel on this one. $72,000 a year and they want more? Get real. The average teacher around my suburb (Batavia) is only $60,000 a year, and we're considered one of the highest paid in the tri-cities. St. Charles is considered "richer" but they only make $52,000 a year. Geneva, I see $60,000-$62,000 a year.

Look at it this way: They're also bickering about class sizes. Yeah, they're bad, but to reduce them, they need to build more schools, hire more teachers AND give the already hired teachers more money? Wat. Emanuel has already mentioned that he'll have to close schools to give them more money, thus increasing class sizes some more.

Did you even read what I posted directly above you? The average salary for a Chicago public school teacher is more like $56,000 a year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Furthermore, to address your statement that Mayor Emanuel claims he'd have to close schools to give the teachers more money, I think it's important to note that the Chicago Public School board members somehow found the money to give themselves raises, despite the fact that they all make far more than any Chicago public school teacher. "There are 53 departments, bureaus, or offices in the central schools bureaucracy, and the top remaining officials in every one —as well as many of their assistants— received raises, according to the budget." http://www.chicagore...ent?oid=1604461

[rondo]

Smoke the bureaucracies as well. I bet there is just as much redundancy there as in the schools themselves, if not moreso.

[XenoBlade]

YoungBirdcall, on 14 September 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

The national median income takes into account part-time employees (think high school and college students) along with minimum wage earners. So I don't think it's a fair argument to say that teachers should just be happy with their pay because they're "making close to the national average".

THIS

[Unlucky Slayer]

Jguy, on 14 September 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

So now, I bet Illinois passes the same union laws and regulations that Wisconsin did a couple of years ago, by the end of next year.

You know how many dead politicians there will be if they do that?

[The Fujoshi]

YoungBirdcall, on 14 September 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

The national median income takes into account part-time employees (think high school and college students) along with minimum wage earners. So I don't think it's a fair argument to say that teachers should just be happy with their pay because they're "making close to the national average".

THIS.

I even stated that if it was you would you be happy with that pay

What Birdie also said that the Mayor wanted to close schools to give teachers more money I totally agree too.

I talked to someone who knew a teacher and she said that they make between 35k-40k per year and that they make 70+k only after getting more degrees and staying on the board for 20+ years or more. Is this true?

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 16 September 2012 - 07:41 AM

[sentinel28a]

The Fujoshi, on 16 September 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

THIS.

I even stated that if it was you would you be happy with that pay

What Birdie also said that the Mayor wanted to close schools to give teachers more money I totally agree too.

I talked to someone who knew a teacher and she said that they make between 35k-40k per year and that they make 70+k only after getting more degrees and staying on the board for 20+ years or more. Is this true?

I'm curious to know this as well. I would regard $35-40k to be a decent starting salary for a Chicago-area teacher, and I think if someone gets a degree they should be paid more, without question. That said, 70K is still excessive for a 20-year teacher, who at that point should be thinking about retirement, not a raise. There should be a limit on this (and for college profs too...I'll be fair about that).

I wonder how many admin types are driving up costs, too. In college academia, it's mainly admins who have driven costs through the roof. At one of the colleges I worked at, you had three people doing the work of one--the three people were actually inventing things to do or paperwork teachers had to fill out to justify their job. Given Chicago's reputation for machine politics, redundancy would not surprise me in the least.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Department of Redundancy Department"

[rondo]

Well, onto week #2.

We won't go back to school just yet. We need time to digest the contract being proposed....

Come on, you should have burned the midnight oil to get this done, not wait till Tuesday.

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 17 September 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, onto week #2.

We won't go back to school just yet. We need time to digest the contract being proposed....

Come on, you should have burned the midnight oil to get this done, not wait till Tuesday.

Yeah it's on week #2; I'm surprised the Mayor let it go on this long :/

[Dark Stranger]

rondo, on 17 September 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, onto week #2.

We won't go back to school just yet. We need time to digest the contract being proposed....

Come on, you should have burned the midnight oil to get this done, not wait till Tuesday.

By why do that when the union is still paying them while they are on strike. Gotta get the most out of it. (at least that's what unions used to do anyway. Not sure how much they still pay or at all).

[Unlucky Slayer]

Dark Stranger, on 17 September 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

By why do that when the union is still paying them while they are on strike. Gotta get the most out of it. (at least that's what unions used to do anyway. Not sure how much they still pay or at all).

They dont really get paid crap for being on strike. Most unions have a strike fund yes, but it is peanuts compared to being at work. (Though you can still grab unemployment I Believe.)

[sentinel28a]

Unlucky Slayer, on 17 September 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

They dont really get paid crap for being on strike. Most unions have a strike fund yes, but it is peanuts compared to being at work. (Though you can still grab unemployment I Believe.)

From what I've read, no one's actually lost money yet. Chicago teachers went on strike the day after payday and aren't slated to get paid again until the 21st. As long as the strike is over by then, no one loses pay (unless the city was dumb enough to dock them pay--and even then, as the school year may be extended to make up for lost time, they'll get the pay back later).

Not sure what the laws are on unemployment and strikes. Education workers tend to get screwed on unemployment--states say "you're gonna get rehired" and don't pay unemployment during the summer. I know...it happened to me this summer, which was one reason I had to miss ACen last year.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"It sucked"