[The Fujoshi]

Ok here in Chicago the teachers are on strike due to not reaching an agreement. It's been about two-three days.


http://articles.chic...arters-teachers

So what are your thoughts about this?

Me I support them; teachers are unpaid enough as it is. I think they should be up there with Police/Firemen/Doctors on the most paid in America and the world but alas movie stars, sports players, and entertainers get paid more money since Enjoyment->Service.

So anything with Teachers getting more benefits is always a good thing.

[magishine]

I support them as well but I do hope a compromise can be reached soon. Teaching is the most thankless job in the world and they deserve better

[TaiyakiOni]

My heart goes out to the underpaid inner city school teachers, but I hope the schools are hiring substitutes in the mean time to hold classes so that the kids aren't out of school. Keeping kids in school is important, especially during teacher strikes at inner city schools where gang violence is a big issue.

[Evil_Nerd]

This is kinda turning out to be a pissing match between Lewis and Rahm and his handpicked board.

[TheStrongJaeger]

For people who supposedly care enough about our nation's children to take up a career teaching them it seems kind of hypocritical to leave them potentially without any educators. Of course I'm about as anti-union as you can get so that's really about all I can say about that.

[MsLovelyCookie]

How much longer will will these students miss more school? I want to know what is taking so long in person.
-Barges into meeting room- What is talking so long!?

I'm starting to feel like the parents who have to stay home and miss work to watch over their kids. My family is lucky that I work the weekends.

[IshokuOsero]

I'm wondering exactly how long it'll take, and I feel sorry for all the children and their families that are affected by all of this. As much as I'd want to support the teachers, the kids shouldn't be missing their education because of it, and there just aren't enough places for them to go until it calms down. The entire situation is just sad.

[Dark Stranger]

TheStrongJaeger, on 12 September 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

For people who supposedly care enough about our nation's children to take up a career teaching them it seems kind of hypocritical to leave them potentially without any educators. Of course I'm about as anti-union as you can get so that's really about all I can say about that.

Second

[XenoBlade]

TheStrongJaeger, on 12 September 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

For people who supposedly care enough about our nation's children to take up a career teaching them it seems kind of hypocritical to leave them potentially without any educators. Of course I'm about as anti-union as you can get so that's really about all I can say about that.

I see where you are coming from, but even so, they deserve decent wages. The kids are the ones who suffer with the teachers gone, but these teachers have families and themselves to take care off. I'm not so anti-union. No one should be forced to join if they don't want to, but they need to exist. Lest, we return to the Robber Baron era where the 8 work 8 leisure 8 rest doesn't exist.

[Unlucky Slayer]

My cousin is a Teacher for CTU. I fully support her and their union as a person and fellow union member. Stand up and fight for a fair contract! Without unions we would all be working like its a 3rd world country.

[Cellomanlove]

As someone who attended college for education, it irritates me to see teachers leaving students without educators. My facebook feed is full of first year and second year teachers commenting on needing better resources for their classrooms so they can educate their students. As a teacher, you should need to create the learning environment for your students. If you don't have a huge budget, create lesson plans that work around what you do have and can still offer your students the kind of education other, better off schools can provide. Something that many teachers strive to be is creative, well show me that creativity in your classroom.
What angers me the most is that so many students aren't being taught right now. Chicago is not the safest city out there and sometimes the safest place for a child is their school. Struggling families also rely on their children to be fed while attending school, those students are even worse off. While teachers strike for "better resources," their students are lacking all resources that you could offer them. Teaching is about putting your students first. Not standing in a giant sea of red while your students don't learn. Everyone I went to school with knew that education was not a high paying job and many of them received scholarships requiring them to teach in a poorer school district for a few years after graduation. It's not secret that teachers are not paid well. While I think the division of wealth is in need of evaluation, I can't support this strike. I can't support something that, at this moment, appears to put students last.
A friend of mine brought up a good point. In Wisconsin this past year there were the Scott Walker protests going on in Madison. As a student, she had many classes cancelled because teachers were striking against the governor. Should she, a paying college student (expensive enough as it is), be forced out of an education by a selfish educator? Should these students be left without education for as long as this strike takes?

[Dark Stranger]

XenoBlade, on 12 September 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

I see where you are coming from, but even so, they deserve decent wages. The kids are the ones who suffer with the teachers gone, but these teachers have families and themselves to take care off. I'm not so anti-union. No one should be forced to join if they don't want to, but they need to exist. Lest, we return to the Robber Baron era where the 8 work 8 leisure 8 rest doesn't exist.

Did you know that is average chicago teacher salery is the one the most highly paid professions second only to new york? This isn't about "fair wages", It's about greed. Just like almost every other union.

This post has been edited by Dark Stranger: 13 September 2012 - 05:12 AM

[rondo]

I reiterate, why strike now at the start of school as opposed to doing this before school started? Because they can use the children as a means of leverage.

I keep seeing signs of teachers saying "Students deserve better schools". That I can agree with...however when this labor dispute is resolved, the teachers and labor bosses will be better off...school no different.

What I would like to see out of this contract? I'd like to see some funding done to supply classrooms with what they need as opposed to hearing teachers talk about paying for it themselves.

[Prayer Police]

[KirbyFanOne]

Unlucky Slayer, on 12 September 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Without unions we would all be working like its a 3rd world country.

Maybe if this was the early 1900's but now we have access to healthcare, companies like OSHA are monitoring safety violations and standards, and some companies even offer benefits if you're not in a union. Unions today are most often just being bullies, especially since as Stranger pointed out, Chicago teachers are among the highest paid averaging 75K a year.

Unions did their job, now they're just pushing further than they need to be.

[kahad]

The teachers went on strike during my second year of high school. Just like this strike, they waited until school was about to start to decide to strike. One full month later, my distrust of unions was set.

[YoungBirdcall]

http://www.chicagore...909&storyPage=1

[Unlucky Slayer]

KirbyFanOne, on 13 September 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

Maybe if this was the early 1900's but now we have access to healthcare, companies like OSHA are monitoring safety violations and standards, and some companies even offer benefits if you're not in a union. Unions today are most often just being bullies, especially since as Stranger pointed out, Chicago teachers are among the highest paid averaging 75K a year.

Unions did their job, now they're just pushing further than they need to be.

Most non Union places I have seen anymore treat their employees like dirt and the state labor board does nothing at all about it cept say that they are looking into it. And Right to Work, its a joke. "Sure you have the right to a job, but you only get paid min wage with no medical. Oh and if you complain, we are still in an at will fire state. Have a nice day."

[sentinel28a]

My sympathy for the Chicago teachers evaporated when I read that they make $74,000 a year, plus benefits. That is twice what I make as a college professor. Yes, I teach at a small, private community college in Nowhere, MT, but check this out--average starting salary for college professors in MT is $62,000 a year. The president of the University of Montana makes $95,000 a year.

Chicago's teachers deserve to get paid and paid well--they have a thankless job in a lousy working environment. But $74,000? And they want more? And they don't want to be held accountable for their abysmal graduation rate--if "accountable" means 40% of their evaluations come from student/parent feedback? And when the city of Chicago is deep in debt?

I have sympathy for inner-city schoolteachers; I could never do their job. But it seems to me that part of the problem why those schools are so bad is that there's too many entrenched old farts who want more and more and more. Chicago could do with some young blood...but hell, why would the younger teachers want to go there?

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[Unlucky Slayer]

As the article that YoungBirdcall posted said, its not just about raises. The media is playing that up to bring more heat to the unions.

[XenoBlade]

Another political ish topic coming up. Ill add my bit when im on a comp.

Preview ...unions are still needed

[sentinel28a]

Unlucky Slayer, on 13 September 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

As the article that YoungBirdcall posted said, its not just about raises. The media is playing that up to bring more heat to the unions.

The fact that the unions are even asking for a raise at this point is a bad idea. Unions are not as popular as they once were, especially after that idiocy in Wisconsin. If I'm a union official, the last thing I'd be pushing for is something that people can turn into a political katana.

That said, IMHO tenure has never been a good idea, either. On the surface, it rewards longevity. In practice, it promotes laziness. If you know that nothing you do is going to get you fired, then what's the point? Do whatever you want! They can't touch you. I've seen college professors with tenure turn into sloths, or worse, start abusing students because they know they can get away with it.

Pay Chicago's teachers well--more than me; they deserve it. Give them good benefits. Give them good retirement plans. They earn those. But also hold them accountable for their actions. That's true in all walks of life. If they're complaining that they can get fired from their jobs just like a burger-wallah at McDonald's--good. Welcome to the rest of the human race.

One thing that I do agree on, though...not all of Chicago's education problems can be laid at the feet of the teachers. A lot of that is just plain simple cultural factors, factors not limited to Chicago.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[The Fujoshi]

TheStrongJaeger, on 12 September 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

For people who supposedly care enough about our nation's children to take up a career teaching them it seems kind of hypocritical to leave them potentially without any educators. Of course I'm about as anti-union as you can get so that's really about all I can say about that.

But if the situation was you and they decided to give you a reduce in pay as well as the fact that you can get fired if some person walked in your job having a bad day or gossip, would you accept that? Or would you say "Well I can't control it so going to just work for 6 dollars an hour and just be hookie dookie?" The children do matter but in this country and any country MONEY->EVERYTHING. Also it's more than that; there are 20 year old books in schools, The mayor rather have test schools to look good rather than the school improvement in question, etc. I don't like unions either but I support the teachers on this one. And the fact is: this hasn't happened in 25 years.

I understand both points of views but teachers in America don't get paid squat. Kids gossip; in my school some of my classmates got a teacher fired by lieing and said that they didn't teach them anything at all and they taught them a lot. They were just too lazy and rather goof around 6th period than work and they hated the teacher because they gave them a D on the last report and was just an "A hole teacher how dare they complain to me." Mind you they did no investigation; just fired them. The teacher we had afterwards was MUCH WORSE, but stayed around till I graduated just because they let the students do what they want.

Another school the principle was this teacher's cousin, so she ALWAYS had raises and jobs compared to the other teachers and she was a straight up "b who put down children." Mind you we reported her! Things like that shouldn't be fair in the work force period so I support any change that would make a job less bias. I already hate the work society because it's image and money and not actually getting the job done.

@sentinel: I don't agree; jobs are "he said she said and who you know." A job at a clothing store has a higher lay out rate than say a job working as an accountant.

Teachers should have a better job than someone at Mcdonalds; the are the ones who taught you to be how you are and help motivate you to get your own job and not mooch from your parents, as well as your parents in general. You can get a hamburger any where. So the pay should be greater as well as the fact that it's hard to find teachers in the first place. But anyone can make a burger; not everyone can teach someone well.

The most paying jobs should be: Firemen, Police men, Teachers, and Doctors. Seriously this country/world is backwards.

Also it's a culture thing like you said. In Japan if you are a teacher and you do certain things, the student gets expelled not the teacher in question, besides a slap on the wrist and a reduce in pay. Compared that to here in the USA, that having a misdemeanor with a child period (such as spanking a child,) will not only deny you options to be a teacher, but to be involved in any job with a child period.

I haven't watched the news outside of how long the closings are going to happen because most of it is just "fanning the flames." Especially the comments about the Mayor saying how "Oh we almost had an agreement."

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 13 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

[kahad]

The Fujoshi, on 13 September 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

The most paying jobs should be: Firemen, Police men, Teachers, and Doctors. Seriously this country/world is backwards.

This might be a bit off topic, but I think that the pay a job receives should be based on educational requirement.

I would say that jobs requiring large amounts of science and math should be the best paying job.

[rondo]

By that regard Fuji, the people in the military should be paid higher than anyone else.

Are teachers, police officers, fire fighters, and the like, considered public servants? Taking those jobs, you typically aren't in it for the pay...but perhaps the benefits and helping your society.

I had not heard much about the pay raises and it hasn't been that much of a focal point from what I have read. Instead, it is the merit calculations and benefits that are the real sticking points.

From the linked story:
"We do not side with the Mayor, the Chicago Public Schools, or your organization," the letter reads. "We side with the 350,000 students who will be placed in harm's way if you lead Chicago teachers into a strike."

- You say you side with the students, yet you strike right when school starts. If you weren't striking now, the students wouldn't be in harms way and would be in school. No one but the union and teachers lead themselves to strike. That is a decision that you made on your own though pushed by working with the Mayor(s), as you suggest.

Look, I'm not saying that the mayor is squeaky clean by any stretch of the imagination, I mean we are talking about Chicago here. I do find it odd that this is painting Rahm as a union buster, which is totally against his political affiliation and does nothing to help his future electoral prospects. Something stinks in all this and it isn't just coming from one direction.

This post has been edited by rondo: 13 September 2012 - 02:26 PM

[YoungBirdcall]

sentinel28a, on 13 September 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

My sympathy for the Chicago teachers evaporated when I read that they make $74,000 a year, plus benefits. That is twice what I make as a college professor. Yes, I teach at a small, private community college in Nowhere, MT, but check this out--average starting salary for college professors in MT is $62,000 a year. The president of the University of Montana makes $95,000 a year.

Chicago's teachers deserve to get paid and paid well--they have a thankless job in a lousy working environment. But $74,000? And they want more? And they don't want to be held accountable for their abysmal graduation rate--if "accountable" means 40% of their evaluations come from student/parent feedback? And when the city of Chicago is deep in debt?

I have sympathy for inner-city schoolteachers; I could never do their job. But it seems to me that part of the problem why those schools are so bad is that there's too many entrenched old farts who want more and more and more. Chicago could do with some young blood...but hell, why would the younger teachers want to go there?

Ben Da Mad Irishman

The average salary for a Chicago teacher is just over $70,000 per year. The average age for a Chicago teacher is just over 40 years old. I would hope that after 20 years on the job, they are making 70 K annually.

[TheStrongJaeger]

YoungBirdcall, on 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

The average salary for a Chicago teacher is just over $70,000 per year. The average age for a Chicago teacher is just over 40 years old. I would hope that after 20 years on the job, they are making 70 K annually.

That's an awfully big assumption to assume that the average Chicago teacher graduated college at 19 or 20, landed a teaching job immediately and has been in the same job for 20 years. Plenty of people don't start their careers till later in life.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 13 September 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

But if the situation was you and they decided to give you a reduce in pay as well as the fact that you can get fired if some person walked in your job having a bad day or gossip, would you accept that? Or would you say "Well I can't control it so going to just work for 6 dollars an hour and just be hookie dookie?" The children do matter but in this country and any country MONEY->EVERYTHING. Also it's more than that; there are 20 year old books in schools, The mayor rather have test schools to look good rather than the school improvement in question, etc. I don't like unions either but I support the teachers on this one. And the fact is: this hasn't happened in 25 years.

I understand both points of views but teachers in America don't get paid squat. Kids gossip; in my school some of my classmates got a teacher fired by lieing and said that they didn't teach them anything at all and they taught them a lot. They were just too lazy and rather goof around 6th period than work and they hated the teacher because they gave them a D on the last report and was just an "A hole teacher how dare they complain to me." Mind you they did no investigation; just fired them. The teacher we had afterwards was MUCH WORSE, but stayed around till I graduated just because they let the students do what they want.

Another school the principle was this teacher's cousin, so she ALWAYS had raises and jobs compared to the other teachers and she was a straight up "b who put down children." Mind you we reported her! Things like that shouldn't be fair in the work force period so I support any change that would make a job less bias. I already hate the work society because it's image and money and not actually getting the job done.

@sentinel: I don't agree; jobs are "he said she said and who you know." A job at a clothing store has a higher lay out rate than say a job working as an accountant.

Teachers should have a better job than someone at Mcdonalds; the are the ones who taught you to be how you are and help motivate you to get your own job and not mooch from your parents, as well as your parents in general. You can get a hamburger any where. So the pay should be greater as well as the fact that it's hard to find teachers in the first place. But anyone can make a burger; not everyone can teach someone well.

The most paying jobs should be: Firemen, Police men, Teachers, and Doctors. Seriously this country/world is backwards.

Also it's a culture thing like you said. In Japan if you are a teacher and you do certain things, the student gets expelled not the teacher in question, besides a slap on the wrist and a reduce in pay. Compared that to here in the USA, that having a misdemeanor with a child period (such as spanking a child,) will not only deny you options to be a teacher, but to be involved in any job with a child period.

I haven't watched the news outside of how long the closings are going to happen because most of it is just "fanning the flames." Especially the comments about the Mayor saying how "Oh we almost had an agreement."

Most teachers don't get paid squat. However these teachers are getting paid waaaay more then what others make and they still want more.

[sentinel28a]

YoungBirdcall, on 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

The average salary for a Chicago teacher is just over $70,000 per year. The average age for a Chicago teacher is just over 40 years old. I would hope that after 20 years on the job, they are making 70 K annually.

Is their average age that high? Chicago's in worse trouble, then. Those teachers will be hitting retirement age in 10-15 years. Who's going to replace them? (Secondary ed is usually a four-year program, so likely they started working around 22-24 years old. So figure about 15-18 years on the job. 70K does seem a bit excessive, as that is not far below the average college professor.)

I'm not adverse to them making 70K with full benefits. I am adverse to them making 70K with full benefits, then striking for more pay and less accountability with an abysmal graduation record. Not all of that is the teachers' fault, true. But there does come a time when you need to say "enough."

Both sides need to quit pouring gas on the fire and start finding a way to compromise. Both sides are always talking about how everything they do is "for the children"--well, start proving it.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 13 September 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Most teachers don't get paid squat. However these teachers are getting paid waaaay more then what others make and they still want more.

What's the difference between these teachers who are protesting and the ones I see around my area with the strike signs? It's hard to really tell unless you have evidence and I live in the South side and around there teachers don't get paid a lot; so I just lump them all together. It's even worse now with the cop cars around watching the kids so that parents don't have to.



@Rondo and kahad: Problem is the world is backwards. The people who get paid the most are in entertainment; strippers, porn stars, Football/sports players/ movie stars, etc. The military should get paid a lot but most veterans don't get paid any thing and if they come back they get little to no benefits, which is why I am anti-war period. You serve your country for what? Nothing? Just self pride and branded as crazy in certain stereotype retrospectives? Things like that frustrate me but people are always about "war war war." If you want to fight so bad then send the presidents to do it instead of 100k people and then give them nothing in return outside of an indirect "thanks." I had family members who served and it was depressing because of post war symptoms and the government giving them the finger.

In order: Army (most)->Marines->Navy->Air force (in terms of pay,) much or even more than movie stars, especially if they die in battle, instead the families get little to nothing. I mention Police and other public servants because similar to teachers they don't get paid anything and people just view them as "convenient," rather than changing lives. If they were not around then what? You can live without a movie but you can't live if your house gets burned down.

I agree with the education should be how much you get paid but I don't want it so that only rocket geniuses get paid than the people who do jobs such as taking out your crusty underwear that you threw away in the morning or cleaning up you after you decided to party too hard and you refuse to do it yourself because of your pride. Seriously those are nasty jobs that deserve some big bucks.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 14 September 2012 - 08:58 AM