[Aiddon Valentin]

rondo, on 17 September 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Sounds like this has happened before. Let's hold back inventory so they are 'sold out' everywhere in hopes interest builds into a frenzy. Not falling for it.

You...might wanna watch what you say in regards to that:

http://www.wiiuonly....do-console.html

Oops

This post has been edited by Aiddon Valentin: 17 September 2012 - 11:26 AM

[rondo]

Aiddon Valentin, on 17 September 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

You...might wanna watch what you say in regards to that:

http://www.wiiuonly....do-console.html

Oops

I'm hardly surprised.

[The Fujoshi]

Aiddon Valentin, on 17 September 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

You...might wanna watch what you say in regards to that:

http://www.wiiuonly....do-console.html

Oops

Why is China fighting over land that doesn't belong to them in the first place?

Seriously this is worse than them fighting against Korea and Japan (from before,) etc.

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 17 September 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Why is China fighting over land that doesn't belong to them in the first place?

Seriously this is worse than them fighting against Korea and Japan (from before,) etc.

If it's in Asia, it belongs to China.

[Dark Stranger]

Why is evil communists bad? I don't know, lets ask that question again.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 17 September 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Why is evil communists bad? I don't know, lets ask that question again.

Socialism isn't bad; it has good points. The problem is that people are doing it wrong. Like is it justified for people to say "communist," in a similar, paranoia fashion as the witch hunts of old?

BUT come on dark! We are talking about Nintendo, not politics or China's government in a norm.

LOL rondo. It just reminds me of the gangs here that fight for land and it's own by the government.

Still this is pretty bad; it's going to mess up things. Nintendo has crappy luck for system launches don't they?

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 17 September 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Still this is pretty bad; it's going to mess up things. Nintendo has crappy luck for system launches don't they?

Well, it kinda depends. The lack of inventory when the Wii first came out may have helped out in the long run.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 17 September 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Socialism isn't bad; it has good points. The problem is that people are doing it wrong. Like is it justified for people to say "communist," in a similar, paranoia fashion as the witch hunts of old?

BUT come on dark! We are talking about Nintendo, not politics or China's government in a norm.

LOL rondo. It just reminds me of the gangs here that fight for land and it's own by the government.

Still this is pretty bad; it's going to mess up things. Nintendo has crappy luck for system launches don't they?

I was just saying how asking why China is doing something wrong, like trying to take over something that isn't there's is as fultile as asking why are they communits? Remember China's goverment is called Chinese Communist Party.

But anyways, that is getting off topic though. I do find it werid that Nintendo seems to be trying to get back the hardcore gamer crowd. With the whole Bayonetta 2 thing and showing off Black Ops 2 on sepreate screens. But is it really working. I know it's not on me.

[TheStrongJaeger]

Dark Stranger, on 18 September 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

I was just saying how asking why China is doing something wrong, like trying to take over something that isn't there's is as fultile as asking why are they communits? Remember China's goverment is called Chinese Communist Party.

But anyways, that is getting off topic though. I do find it werid that Nintendo seems to be trying to get back the hardcore gamer crowd. With the whole Bayonetta 2 thing and showing off Black Ops 2 on sepreate screens. But is it really working. I know it's not on me.

Yeah but 2 "hardcore" games out of a ton of casual ones really strikes me more as lipservice to the genuine gamer than a real effort to appeal to them. Kind of like the Wii with Red Steel, they ranted and raved about games like that for the hardcore but the system still ended up 98% casual. I especially think that considering they only got Bayonetta since no one else wanted to fund it.

[rondo]

Nintendo dabbles briefly with 'hardcore' games but usually falls in line with their usual software offerings shortly thereafter.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 18 September 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

I was just saying how asking why China is doing something wrong, like trying to take over something that isn't there's is as fultile as asking why are they communits? Remember China's goverment is called Chinese Communist Party.

But anyways, that is getting off topic though. I do find it werid that Nintendo seems to be trying to get back the hardcore gamer crowd. With the whole Bayonetta 2 thing and showing off Black Ops 2 on sepreate screens. But is it really working. I know it's not on me.

-Wants to talk about the first point but doesn't-

Nintendo is hardcore but a different type of hardcore. If anyone plays Mario after +years and it's the same formula I consider that a hardcore fandom. Same with COD and Halo but that's me.

Nintendo's aim is to be for everyone compared to the PS3/360, which are mostly for teenagers and 20-30 year old adults. It's a good aim though if these people would play video games more in between Tai bo and bar hopping.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 19 September 2012 - 08:39 AM

[TheStrongJaeger]

Well when we and everyone else says "hardcore gamer" what we mean are people who have gaming as a primary hobby; Who devote lots of free time to gaming, play many genres and are up to date on everything. And Nintendo has very little appeal to that crowd. You can say they air to be for everyone, but for Nintendo "everyone" means the people who only want the same Nintendo franchises over and over and casual games. Other people may like it but they certainly aren't Nintendo's primary target.

[Aiddon Valentin]

The Fujoshi, on 19 September 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

-Wants to talk about the first point but doesn't-

Nintendo is hardcore but a different type of hardcore. If anyone plays Mario after +years and it's the same formula I consider that a hardcore fandom. Same with COD and Halo but that's me.

Nintendo's aim is to be for everyone compared to the PS3/360, which are mostly for teenagers and 20-30 year old adults. It's a good aim though if these people would play video games more in between Tai bo and bar hopping.

In a way Nintendo fans are THE most "hardcore" of gamers; they've kept a reliable fanbase for decades and have continually made an effort to expand their audience beyond the usually 15-30 demographic that is, let's face it, always shrinking. It's why catering solely to the "hardcore" is actually suicidal from a financial standpoint; just look at how the American comic book industry collapsed in the 90s when they failed to bring in new fans and pandered to the shrinking, older demographic.

This post has been edited by Aiddon Valentin: 19 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

[The Fujoshi]

Aiddon Valentin, on 19 September 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

In a way Nintendo fans are THE most "hardcore" of gamers; they've kept a reliable fanbase for decades and have continually made an effort to expand their audience beyond the usually 15-30 demographic that is, let's face it, always shrinking. It's why catering solely to the "hardcore" is actually suicidal from a financial standpoint; just look at how the American comic book industry collapsed in the 90s when they failed to bring in new fans and pandered to the shrinking, older demographic.

Yeah I agree and actually I said the first part Aiddon @.@ The term hardcore is weird; people only consider gamers hardcore if they like a certain demographic and softcore as anyone who is a casual gamer and not serious about gaming but that's not true at all. In my view you are hardcore if you play video games outside of 2-5 hours per day and you are way into the game scene to the point of turning into a stop having fun guy/girl.

Yeah it's depressing; you know how bad Superman is now?

Spoiler

Clark kent is officially dead and he's knocking boots with Wonder woman.

[rondo]

Hardcore or softcore, my whole problem are Nintendo's software offerings in general. Personally, I'm tired of all the Mario Karts, Mario Partys, Marios, Zeldas, and the like. They are fine games indeed, but I'd like more variety from them and more willingness to get a variety of more third party support and enough of all the pandering shovelware.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 19 September 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

-Wants to talk about the first point but doesn't-

Nintendo is hardcore but a different type of hardcore. If anyone plays Mario after +years and it's the same formula I consider that a hardcore fandom. Same with COD and Halo but that's me.

Nintendo's aim is to be for everyone compared to the PS3/360, which are mostly for teenagers and 20-30 year old adults. It's a good aim though if these people would play video games more in between Tai bo and bar hopping.

If they want to compare to their competators then they need to go back to the N64 or gamecube (to a extent) ways of doing things. I still have games from that era and when they were new I was on those systems just as much as their cometators. They had a much better varitey of games. I mean heck RE 4 was first on the gamecube. That was great for them. Solid controles, good graphics, and something that people wanted to play. Compare that with them having Bayonetta 2. :/

[Aiddon Valentin]

The Fujoshi, on 19 September 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Yeah I agree and actually I said the first part Aiddon @.@ The term hardcore is weird; people only consider gamers hardcore if they like a certain demographic and softcore as anyone who is a casual gamer and not serious about gaming but that's not true at all. In my view you are hardcore if you play video games outside of 2-5 hours per day and you are way into the game scene to the point of turning into a stop having fun guy/girl.

And think there's more to hardcore than that. And I don't even think it matters how much you play a week. It's really just an artificial term so people think they're more "sophisticated" than others.

rondo, on 20 September 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Hardcore or softcore, my whole problem are Nintendo's software offerings in general. Personally, I'm tired of all the Mario Karts, Mario Partys, Marios, Zeldas, and the like. They are fine games indeed, but I'd like more variety from them and more willingness to get a variety of more third party support and enough of all the pandering shovelware.

The shovelware was never actually Nintendo's fault; that was the fault of 3rd parties who kind of gave Nintendo the finger because they actually had to learn something besides the gamepad and got scared. And I'm pretty sure the 50+ games they've shown for the Wii U's launch window (from November all the way to April of next year) show MORE than enough 3rd party variety. And furthermore Nintendo's franchises DO try new things, but also realize that "improving" the wheel is kind of arbitrary and can lead disaster if not done right. Just trying something new for the sake of it is not innovation.

This post has been edited by Aiddon Valentin: 21 September 2012 - 09:32 AM

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 20 September 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

If they want to compare to their competators then they need to go back to the N64 or gamecube (to a extent) ways of doing things. I still have games from that era and when they were new I was on those systems just as much as their cometators. They had a much better varitey of games. I mean heck RE 4 was first on the gamecube. That was great for them. Solid controles, good graphics, and something that people wanted to play. Compare that with them having Bayonetta 2. :/

Nostalgia is the vibe I am getting from DS.

Companies are always trying to change stuff for people and its usually hit or miss depending on the country, like the Dreamcast in USA compared to the Dreamcast ratings in Japan, Arcades in Japan that still exist along with UFO catchers while here in the USA Arcades are considered for Nostalgia people as well as kids, etc.

Microsoft Xbox is doing horrible in Japan because of the demographic but good in the USA. The PS3 is popular because of the fact that it's backwards and it has a lot of games from fandoms, such as Persona/SMT series, Tales of series, FF, etc. Also don't get me started on the PC, it's hardcore fanbase, and the fact that you can do a lot of -cough- bootlegging.

The reason why people like N64 and revert back to those days (even with Mario Kart, good lord,) is because back then there was only the Sega Saturn, with it's limited library, and the PS1, which was still trying to get into the routes of things in the USA and so much nostalgia, (Pokemon Stadium anyone?) Now compare that to now; many games on the Sony system are cult classics like KH, SMT, etc. and the 360 has a ton of shooters that took years to establish. During Mario 64 days there was mostly Killer instinct and Turok and not a lot of RPGS that fans would buy el masse. Wild arms was popular but not that popular when FF7 came out on the PS1.

Nintendo has to adjust to culture standards/times for games but that's really hard to do because you have no idea how the public will sway and lack of third party support for the most part. Dragon Quest is a hit in Japan but horrible here so they couldn't sell Dragon quest games like they would FF games in the USA/Euro. So Nintendo is taking the safe route and selling games in America that Americans would love so far. Resident Evil, Bayonetta 2, etc. The Wii U is still new so who knows what else they might bring out. The new Smash is already going to be on the Wii U, which will prompt more people to buy it due to the hardcore fanbase for Smash.

[rondo]

Aiddon Valentin, on 21 September 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

The shovelware was never actually Nintendo's fault; that was the fault of 3rd parties who kind of gave Nintendo the finger because they actually had to learn something besides the gamepad and got scared. And I'm pretty sure the 50+ games they've shown for the Wii U's launch window (from November all the way to April of next year) show MORE than enough 3rd party variety. And furthermore Nintendo's franchises DO try new things, but also realize that "improving" the wheel is kind of arbitrary and can lead disaster if not done right. Just trying something new for the sake of it is not innovation.

I have to disagree; the shovelware is Nintendo's fault to a degree. Nintendo has control on what shows up on their system and they allowed such software to appear en masse on it. I'm not gonna give Nintendo a pass on that unless you can enlighten me to see this from a different perspective.

Trying/creating something new is innovation or inventing, to a certain extent. Whether such endeavors are successful, where there lies your variable(s). Of course changing anything to an established formula that is proven successful is a risk, that much is obvious. (i.e. Apple)

As for the U's launch lineup window, there is plenty to be had. Systems do their best to tout those all important launch titles to drive initial interest but I'm more interested in the systems 2-3 year window in order to sustain some degree of momentum. Much like with the previous systems, outside of that first year of titles..the system languishes because of a lack of a good number of noteworthy releases. Then again, I guess much of this could also be blamed on the lack of exclusives in the console age lately. In any case, I'm sure it'll be in my console library eventually..but I may not be a day 1 person like I have been since the Sega Saturn era.

=====

Nintendo is gonna try some new things with the U like the whole entertainment hub functionality...which has been tried quite a bit before by others. If they can nail it down, they may have something. If it is successful, all those others which Nintendo tries to connect to may try to turn the screws to get some of that pie. It's a delicate area but also just speculation, take it for what it is.

This upcoming generation may wind up being the make it or break it generation for console's futures in our homes. I'll be curious to see how well the U will manage with it's $299 starting point. Consoles may have been able to sport those $250 up price ranges in the past but I have my doubts such prices will be tolerated by the masses much longer.

Then you have Valve dabbling a little with a home console of sorts.

Also, if Apple decided they wanted to jump into the fray, all bets are off and could spell doom to the current players in the market.

Nintendo is firing the opening salvo in this upcoming game generation which is becoming a bit harder to define anymore. Nintendo's software will persist, that much I am sure of. I just get this feeling that console wise, this may be it.

Nevertheless, I await our mobile gaming overlord(s).

This post has been edited by rondo: 21 September 2012 - 02:15 PM

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 21 September 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Nostalgia is the vibe I am getting from DS.

Companies are always trying to change stuff for people and its usually hit or miss depending on the country, like the Dreamcast in USA compared to the Dreamcast ratings in Japan, Arcades in Japan that still exist along with UFO catchers while here in the USA Arcades are considered for Nostalgia people as well as kids, etc.

Microsoft Xbox is doing horrible in Japan because of the demographic but good in the USA. The PS3 is popular because of the fact that it's backwards and it has a lot of games from fandoms, such as Persona/SMT series, Tales of series, FF, etc. Also don't get me started on the PC, it's hardcore fanbase, and the fact that you can do a lot of -cough- bootlegging.

The reason why people like N64 and revert back to those days (even with Mario Kart, good lord,) is because back then there was only the Sega Saturn, with it's limited library, and the PS1, which was still trying to get into the routes of things in the USA and so much nostalgia, (Pokemon Stadium anyone?) Now compare that to now; many games on the Sony system are cult classics like KH, SMT, etc. and the 360 has a ton of shooters that took years to establish. During Mario 64 days there was mostly Killer instinct and Turok and not a lot of RPGS that fans would buy el masse. Wild arms was popular but not that popular when FF7 came out on the PS1.

Nintendo has to adjust to culture standards/times for games but that's really hard to do because you have no idea how the public will sway and lack of third party support for the most part. Dragon Quest is a hit in Japan but horrible here so they couldn't sell Dragon quest games like they would FF games in the USA/Euro. So Nintendo is taking the safe route and selling games in America that Americans would love so far. Resident Evil, Bayonetta 2, etc. The Wii U is still new so who knows what else they might bring out. The new Smash is already going to be on the Wii U, which will prompt more people to buy it due to the hardcore fanbase for Smash.

It's not nostalgia. It's all about the games. Nintendo kicked every hardcore fan to the curb with the wii and went with the bigger money. Being ignorant "casual gamers", who wouldn't know a good game from their butt. Now that they are finally losing sales and a fanbase, it now seems that they are trying to get them back with M names like Bayonetta and Black ops. But It's not gonna work. At least not for me, or hopefully for other older gamers out there.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 23 September 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

It's not nostalgia. It's all about the games. Nintendo kicked every hardcore fan to the curb with the wii and went with the bigger money. Being ignorant "casual gamers", who wouldn't know a good game from their butt. Now that they are finally losing sales and a fanbase, it now seems that they are trying to get them back with M names like Bayonetta and Black ops. But It's not gonna work. At least not for me, or hopefully for other older gamers out there.

But it was pointed out that Nintendo wasn't just for casual gamers. Even back in the N64 days if you look at it like that, they didn't have many "Hardcore games." Hardcore gamers and casual soft core is just a view point.

Nintendo is trying to sell for a variety of people, unlike the other two systems and the PC. It's just more established now compared to 10 years ago due to the variety of games on the market. Yes the Wii has shovelwear and more casual than "hardcore," games but what Nintendo system wasn't like that? I'm not counting games that were on different systems, such as Turok, Resident evil, Duke Nukem, Earthworm Jim etc. etc. Only Gamecube/N64 only ports (not even SNK/Capcom because that was on the PS2.)


........Maybe NES with Die hard and Punch out? I clearly remember playing more Zelda/Mario games on the SNES to the point that I couldn't remember a hardcore game that DS would suggest go into the hardcore.

EDIT: I found a few N64 only ports: Bomberman 64, 007, and Mischief Makers so far: http://en.wikipedia....ntendo_64_games and the only one that could be considered "hardcore," is 007, to the point of having a meme based on it.

Also what about the mobile market? That's mostly casual gaming if I didn't say so myself and you need a touchscreen to get the most hardcore games, but since most people have phones they are skyrocketing the market. If Nintendo did something like that they would be richer than rich.

For pete's sake the Wii u just came out. So did the Vita and the line up for that isn't that great for a 300+ dollar system.

[HiroEcks]

I can't wait for Nintendo to be a software developer ONLY like their buddies over at Sega.

[Aiddon Valentin]

HiroEcks, on 23 September 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I can't wait for Nintendo to be a software developer ONLY like their buddies over at Sega.

You're probably going to have to wait a few decades for that. Nintendo has about $10 billion in the bank

[rondo]

Here one's for you Fuji for the N64. Conker's Bad Fur Day.

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 24 September 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

Here one's for you Fuji for the N64. Conker's Bad Fur Day.

Thanks; I had a hard time trying to remember certain games such as Doom and War Gods having more than one system base. So that's three games so far.

What I was trying to say was that no system has only "for this console," games. Developers like to branch out, which is a two hand sword. It gives buyers more variety but it also makes buyers gear towards one system than the other, such as PS2 or 360 or Wii, so of course people will be bias. If their system has only their favorite games on it they are incline to remember those systems and compare them to other systems or games.

The Wii U is new and fresh; sure the Wii isn't doing good and the 3DS is kind of tanking but games like SMT IV is making people who hated the 3DS suddenly want to buy it. It might happen with the Wii it might not. Nintendo is releasing M rated games to give people a variety, not to personally get hardcore gamers like DS or anyone else in the forums.

Now in a year or so complain about the Wii U if they are tanking or still doing that.

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 24 September 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Thanks; I had a hard time trying to remember certain games such as Doom and War Gods having more than one system base. So that's three games so far.

What I was trying to say was that no system has only "for this console," games. Developers like to branch out, which is a two hand sword. It gives buyers more variety but it also makes buyers gear towards one system than the other, such as PS2 or 360 or Wii, so of course people will be bias. If their system has only their favorite games on it they are incline to remember those systems and compare them to other systems or games.

The Wii U is new and fresh; sure the Wii isn't doing good and the 3DS is kind of tanking but games like SMT IV is making people who hated the 3DS suddenly want to buy it. It might happen with the Wii it might not. Nintendo is releasing M rated games to give people a variety, not to personally get hardcore gamers like DS or anyone else in the forums.

Now in a year or so complain about the Wii U if they are tanking or still doing that.

It isn't so much a complaint as much as it is a prediction. Been getting consoles for a long time now, and not just a few..all of them. I've seen Nintendo from the start of the NES to the Wii of today and my feelings are based on what my experiences have been. I hope to be surprised but this is how I feel it'll turn out.

This post has been edited by rondo: 24 September 2012 - 09:43 AM

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 24 September 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

It isn't so much a complaint as much as it is a prediction. Been getting consoles for a long time now, and not just a few..all of them. I've seen Nintendo from the start of the NES to the Wii of today and my feelings are based on what my experiences have been. I hope to be surprised but this is how I feel it'll turn out.

Oh sorries you confused me there. I thought you were adding onto the game statement I made.

Hey I have too rondo but I feel that as long as people keep buying stuff, (even if it's shovelware,) companies will still be in business and it will take another vitural boy mistake for Nintendo to die in flames because of the hardcore Zelda/Mario fans. I don't really have hopes for them, it's just that maybe, just maybe the Wii U might surprise us all.

Or maybe it might not.

Besides Sonic, I can't think of too many hardcore fan titles that Sega had that really stuck with both US and Japan fanbase which would explain why they might had failed outside of bad market management.

Puyo Puyo and Phantasy star don't count no matter how much I love those games.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 24 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

[XenoBlade]

HiroEcks, on 23 September 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I can't wait for Nintendo to be a software developer ONLY like their buddies over at Sega.

THIS. They make the best 1st party games. Systems? Not even close. Innovative tho.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 23 September 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

But it was pointed out that Nintendo wasn't just for casual gamers. Even back in the N64 days if you look at it like that, they didn't have many "Hardcore games." Hardcore gamers and casual soft core is just a view point.

Nintendo is trying to sell for a variety of people, unlike the other two systems and the PC. It's just more established now compared to 10 years ago due to the variety of games on the market. Yes the Wii has shovelwear and more casual than "hardcore," games but what Nintendo system wasn't like that? I'm not counting games that were on different systems, such as Turok, Resident evil, Duke Nukem, Earthworm Jim etc. etc. Only Gamecube/N64 only ports (not even SNK/Capcom because that was on the PS2.)


........Maybe NES with Die hard and Punch out? I clearly remember playing more Zelda/Mario games on the SNES to the point that I couldn't remember a hardcore game that DS would suggest go into the hardcore.

EDIT: I found a few N64 only ports: Bomberman 64, 007, and Mischief Makers so far: http://en.wikipedia....ntendo_64_games and the only one that could be considered "hardcore," is 007, to the point of having a meme based on it.

Also what about the mobile market? That's mostly casual gaming if I didn't say so myself and you need a touchscreen to get the most hardcore games, but since most people have phones they are skyrocketing the market. If Nintendo did something like that they would be richer than rich.

For pete's sake the Wii u just came out. So did the Vita and the line up for that isn't that great for a 300+ dollar system.

While I understand the point of your argument there is a few things that are missing. Being a hardcore game or gamer doesn't nessicarly mean it has to be a T or M game. A good example would be the first Super Smash Bros game. Not a serious or gritty game, but it had hardcore appeal. It was not only new, it was challenging and made great competition. And most people that only played a few games or didn't play at all wouldn't be interested in it, desipe it being a "causal game" nowadays. Im not saying the SSBB is bad, but I'd go back and look how they have boosted the power ratio and character skills between the two. The orginal is more challeging.

Also the mindset of gamers is complelty different now then it was then. When people paid their good money for a game they wanted to have it last for awhile. Remember how Starfox 64 had different paths and enemies? And how the more kills you got added up your "bill" at the end of the game? Those things were fun. Now Nintendo grabs it's old characters gives them a 8 hour game and expect 60 bucks out of it. Now maybe there are other factors like money involed in how people played games, but to me if Nintendo was putting out games on the N64 like there are the wii I would have dropped that system so fast. The only thing that would maybe have me dust it off would be their solid homemade titles like Zelda and mario. But even those games are starting to show shome weaknessess. Heck the last couple mario games have been nothing but remakes of the older games. And yeah, it's got a nice little nostalgia feel to it, but it's nothing new or innovative like Mario galaxy was.

[HiroEcks]

XenoBlade, on 24 September 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

THIS. They make the best 1st party games. Systems? Not even close. Innovative tho.

Yea, systems are totally lacking and I feel like they have lost too many fans in the process to have a good showing for this next system. It's not even about being innovative or first at something. It's about doing it best.