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Romney or Obama 2012!

#301 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:23 PM

And as far as alternative energy goes, Let's just look at our old crazy state friend cailfornia. Where almost all of their energy is monitored and inforced. Like emissions out of your car. If it goes over a ceritan amount, it's illegal to drive that car. Dont have any other car or afford to get it fixed? TOO BAD! Then let's not forget their rolling black outs and insane prices on everything. One of my friends live there and has 4 people living in a townhouse. They each pay $600 a month. EACH! That's over 2 grand for a apartment. That's more expensive then most peoples house morgagaes over here. But that's also due to Cail's thought process that uping wages somehow wouldn't affect prices. There is soo much to look at how many dems plans for america won't work just by looking at Cailifornia.
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#302 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 September 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

He doesn't have to say anything. It's his actions that speak for him. If you put sactions and block new drilling in america and continue to promote clean energy then he wants to force people to try and throw thier money into clean energy and has no concern for the poor like me who's having more and more trouble keeping gas in my car because it's higher and higher every day. Either they should bit the bullet and just make clean energy cars insanely cheap and not make a profit on it. Or just have a special tax break for people like me to afford one. I currentnly have the newest car anyone in my entire family has ever bought and it's still 6 years old. And I will be paying it off for the next 4 years. If the trend continues I won't be able to afford any kind of clean energy car untill i'm almost 40. (that is unless gas just ballons to 10 bucks a gallon. Something I'm sure obama would love to see). Then theres also the problem with energy at home. I can't afford any alternative engery other then electricity. And that comes from the electric company, and guess where they get their power from? UH OH! *bum dum dum!* COAL! So because i'm poor i'm just "fueling" the dirty energy polics.


So let me get this straight....
Even if Obama was trying to completely cut oil production in America RIGHT NOW and never give you another drop of oil from this second on (he's not, and you haven't been paying any attention if you think he hasn't said anything on the matter...), your ONLY concern is that you wouldn't be able to afford a new car? Please. Cleaner cars aren't Lamborghinis or Vipers. You're over-exaggerating to try to make a point. Stop acting like cleaner cars would cost you anything more than a regular new car, and like they wouldn't save you hundreds if not thousands a year in eliminated gas expenses.
Tell me again why Obama would love to see gas prices soar? The man that has absolutely NO support from the oil industry? Nothing to gain from increased oil prices except, maybe, and I seriously doubt it, people waking up and realizing that fossil fuels are the problem and not Obama? Really, I'd like to know.

Guess where electricity can also be generated form? Water and wind energy! If your area switched to wind energy, you'd have no choice but to pay for that instead. I hardly doubt you'd notice, though, since it isn't any more expensive.Did I just blow your mind?
Of course I didn't, because you're completely against any sort of change that you assume might take a few bucks out of your pocket. As an actually lower-class person, working two jobs to live in a cheap place and put gas in my car from the 1992, I'm concerned about my wallet too. Just not to the point where I'm afraid of change.
That's Obama's problem. He built his campaign on change, something which most people are unfortunately afraid of.
But it's better than a man who's slogan might as well be "Well....I'm not Obama."

As for Minecraft's post....Xeno and Fuji pretty much covered it. I almost couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

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#303 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:43 PM

View Postsentinel28a, on 30 September 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'm trying to fathom how the quote "We need energy independence but drilling in our national forests and oceans isn't the answer" makes sense. Because if we don't drill here, foreign oil is what we have to import.

The other thing is that most of the oil currently being drilled is not in our forests. The Bakken oil formation where North Dakota is turning record profits off of is in a barren scrubland. The Alaska oil is in mostly barren tundra. The environment is not being spoiled. And if we don't drill offshore, other countries will be more than happy to do it themselves.

I'm all for alternative, green energy, but while some of Obama's supporters agree that it can't be done overnight, I wonder if Obama does. His EPA doesn't. They're busy shutting down coal-fired powerplants left and right with nothing to replace them. It's one thing if you have wind or solar power immediately online to take coal-fired plants' place. It's suicidal to just shut down the powerplants with nothing to back them up. Not going to be a problem for me--my power is drawn from hydroelectricity--but I'm wondering how many people will be so enthusiastic about clean energy when they're facing rolling blackouts. (And "clean" coal does exist. Montana's coal is different from "dirty" West Virginia coal, and burns with very little soot. The downside is that it also takes a lot more heat to get it to burn, whereas WV coal doesn't need as much.)

So if coal is out, and oil is out, what's that leave? Hydroelectricity? That's nice and clean, but 1) you need to live by a river and 2) the EPA won't allow large-scale dams. Nuclear? Won't be allowed. Solar and wind are great, but simply can't generate the same amount of power. What's happening is that the EPA, apparently, believes you can run a modern economy built around oil on Middle Ages energy production. You can't.



You can fathom it by perhaps understanding that we don't need to drill anymore. We need alternative sources of energy. It's that simple. Energy independence does not mean "oil independence". There are other sources of energy.
That being said, in response to where we are drilling, that's true for the most part. That isn't necessarily my problem here....it's that Romney's plan IS to crack open all of those national parks and coasts and make it open season to drill for oil anywhere it can be found.
You and DS keep talking like shutting down power plants like it's all going to be gone overnight. From what I understand, Obama is only shutting down unnecessary power plants and coal sites. A lot of accessible coal mines are tapped out. I'm sorry but when you're mining an unrenewable resource, it's going to disappear someday. I'm sorry for the miners losing their dangerous jobs. But eventually they had to go.
Cleaner coal exists, clean coal does not.
Water energy, wind energy, and solar energy can be used almost if not everywhere. In time, we can make the switch. There doesn't have to be "suicidal rolling blackouts". That sounds almost as ridiculous as the whole Mayan Calender Doomsday.

All of this being said, you seem to mostly have a problem with no increased drilling. Thing here is, we don't need to increase drilling to even become OIL independent. We have enough oil here already without foreign sources. But you know what? We export most of it. Imagine that.

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#304 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 September 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

And as far as alternative energy goes, Let's just look at our old crazy state friend cailfornia. Where almost all of their energy is monitored and inforced. Like emissions out of your car. If it goes over a ceritan amount, it's illegal to drive that car. Dont have any other car or afford to get it fixed? TOO BAD! Then let's not forget their rolling black outs and insane prices on everything. One of my friends live there and has 4 people living in a townhouse. They each pay $600 a month. EACH! That's over 2 grand for a apartment. That's more expensive then most peoples house morgagaes over here. But that's also due to Cail's thought process that uping wages somehow wouldn't affect prices. There is soo much to look at how many dems plans for america won't work just by looking at Cailifornia.


Emissions is not just in California. The emissions laws vary from county to county. It's local laws, for the most part. I never had to pass emissions in northwest Indiana. But I moved to another county and I had to get emissions to renew my plates.
Looks like "crazy cali" is "crazy everywhere". Your only concern about all of this seems to be that you don't want to buy a new car.

I get it man, I can't afford a new car right now either. Neither can most people. Nobody is going to force you to buy a new car. It's going to be okay.

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#305 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:56 PM

View PostKii, on 30 September 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Nobody is going to force you to buy a new car. It's going to be okay.

I'm sure people once said the same thing about health insurance.

This post has been edited by kahad: 30 September 2012 - 02:56 PM

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#306 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:04 PM

View Postkahad, on 30 September 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

I'm sure people once said the same thing about health insurance.


Poor things.Now they have to be covered to make sure they can maybe afford healthcare in a nation that's completely against universal healthcare for all.
Damn you, Obama!
That being said, I doubt there's going to be a law passed demanding that everyone needs to own a car. At worst they can make your car illegal to drive, but they can't force you to buy a new one. Your wallet is still under your control, never fear. :)

This post has been edited by Kii: 30 September 2012 - 03:05 PM


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#307 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

View PostKii, on 30 September 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Your wallet is still under your control, never fear. :)

No, it's not.

People have to pay half a million different kinds of taxes, buy auto insurance, and now health insurance. The government does have some control over our wallets.

This post has been edited by kahad: 30 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

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#308 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostKii, on 30 September 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

So let me get this straight....
Even if Obama was trying to completely cut oil production in America RIGHT NOW and never give you another drop of oil from this second on (he's not, and you haven't been paying any attention if you think he hasn't said anything on the matter...), your ONLY concern is that you wouldn't be able to afford a new car? Please. Cleaner cars aren't Lamborghinis or Vipers. You're over-exaggerating to try to make a point. Stop acting like cleaner cars would cost you anything more than a regular new car, and like they wouldn't save you hundreds if not thousands a year in eliminated gas expenses.
Tell me again why Obama would love to see gas prices soar? The man that has absolutely NO support from the oil industry? Nothing to gain from increased oil prices except, maybe, and I seriously doubt it, people waking up and realizing that fossil fuels are the problem and not Obama? Really, I'd like to know.

Guess where electricity can also be generated form? Water and wind energy! If your area switched to wind energy, you'd have no choice but to pay for that instead. I hardly doubt you'd notice, though, since it isn't any more expensive.Did I just blow your mind?
Of course I didn't, because you're completely against any sort of change that you assume might take a few bucks out of your pocket. As an actually lower-class person, working two jobs to live in a cheap place and put gas in my car from the 1992, I'm concerned about my wallet too. Just not to the point where I'm afraid of change.
That's Obama's problem. He built his campaign on change, something which most people are unfortunately afraid of.
But it's better than a man who's slogan might as well be "Well....I'm not Obama."

As for Minecraft's post....Xeno and Fuji pretty much covered it. I almost couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd notice considering I don't live close to a dam and weather around indiana is...unpredictable to say the least. You make it so that wind and sun are our only energy sources and our state will lose power for days at a time. Relying soley on alternative energy would be disaterous. And I'm just using my car as a example of how you can't force change onto people that cant afford it. The biggist problems I'm seeing in any breaktroughs in clean energy (and science for that matter) is they are putting the cart before the horse. "We have a car that runs soley on electricity? Great! Let's put it on the market!" "Oh wait....where are they gonna plug it up at besides home?....oh well too late." They think soley on the destination instead of how we are going to get there.

And let me remind you that Obama was calling out the past offices for letting gas prices "soar" (remember 2 bucks a gallon back then was horriable). Yet, there isn't a peep out of them our their supporters when gas is almost double that in just 4 years. How can he be for cheaper oil when he has done nothing to help? Again it's his actions that speak, not words.

Look we all want better things in the world and a better future. I look at sci fi things and dream of a place like that. The difference is we have to plan to get there instead of putting things into action without the thoughts on how it will affect everyone else.
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#309 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:16 PM

Without quoting anyone(so much has been said already!), I'd like to address this energy debate.

Wind is cheaper energy? No.
According to the annual energy outlook for 2012 the total levelized cost of Coal is the same as Wind. These are the average levelized costs for generating technologies that are brought on line in 2017. So these are projected costs based on the information we have today. http://www.eia.gov/f..._generation.cfm

According to a UK source Wind would be more expensive that the old methods of Coal and Nuclear. http://www.pbworld.c...rope_specialty/

Problems with Wind power:
The major challenge to using wind as a source of power is that it is intermittent and does not always blow when electricity is needed. Wind cannot be stored (although wind-generated electricity can be stored, if batteries are used), and not all winds can be harnessed to meet the timing of electricity demands. Further, good wind sites are often located in remote locations far from areas of electric power demand (such as cities). http://windeis.anl.g...asics/index.cfm

Also, they do have a very negative impact on bats, an animal that is already being wiped out by White-Nose Syndrome in the thousands. Windmills have hat to shut down at night due to deaths of endangered bats: http://tribune-democ...ise-of-rare-bat The bats are not being hit by the blades, that's not the cause of the deaths. Experts believe that it's due to a drop in the air pressure created by the windmills that caused the deaths since they seem to be respiratory related.

Eelectric cars = clean?
If you've ever gotten a utility bill here in IL from Com-Ed you'd see they include a small pamphlet with a pie chart breakdown of the types of energy used in your area to provide you with electricity. When you "fill up" your electric car, lets say a nice new 2012 Chevy Volt(temporarily no longer in production), you are plugging it into your home's electricity supply. You are using mainly "dirty" energy to fill your "clean" car.

The battery is also a huge problem when it comes to waste. http://www.ehow.com/...ctric-cars.html Possible environmental impacts from the creation of the battery: "The mass production of electric car batteries will result in large volumes of metal contaminated waste and place as much demand onto the power grid as traditional vehicle equipment manufacturing. Direct environmental impacts may result in reduced fishery habitat near mine sites, decreased air quality and associated lung ailments near processing facilities, and higher energy costs near factories. Indirect environmental impacts may result from increased fossil fuel use to meet factory demand."

Solution to our energy problems?
There's no easy answer here, but candidates have to be willing to weight the pros and cons of each of these, and above all listen to their constituents. Whoever gets elected needs to work with Congress to find solutions. I've heard that drilling can happen with minimal impact on the environment. There has to be an approach that works out there. We can't just switch off of fossil fuels, that much is clear.

This post has been edited by JujuFox: 30 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

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#310 User is offline   Unlucky Slayer 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 September 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

And as far as alternative energy goes, Let's just look at our old crazy state friend cailfornia. Where almost all of their energy is monitored and inforced. Like emissions out of your car. If it goes over a ceritan amount, it's illegal to drive that car. Dont have any other car or afford to get it fixed? TOO BAD! Then let's not forget their rolling black outs and insane prices on everything. One of my friends live there and has 4 people living in a townhouse. They each pay $600 a month. EACH! That's over 2 grand for a apartment. That's more expensive then most peoples house morgagaes over here. But that's also due to Cail's thought process that uping wages somehow wouldn't affect prices. There is soo much to look at how many dems plans for america won't work just by looking at Cailifornia.

Not just California that has emissions testing. While not nearly as strict on the guidelines, we still have to test our cars here in NWI. Cant afford the fix? Get a different car.
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#311 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:49 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 September 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd notice considering I don't live close to a dam and weather around indiana is...unpredictable to say the least. You make it so that wind and sun are our only energy sources and our state will lose power for days at a time. Relying soley on alternative energy would be disaterous. And I'm just using my car as a example of how you can't force change onto people that cant afford it. The biggist problems I'm seeing in any breaktroughs in clean energy (and science for that matter) is they are putting the cart before the horse. "We have a car that runs soley on electricity? Great! Let's put it on the market!" "Oh wait....where are they gonna plug it up at besides home?....oh well too late." They think soley on the destination instead of how we are going to get there.

And let me remind you that Obama was calling out the past offices for letting gas prices "soar" (remember 2 bucks a gallon back then was horriable). Yet, there isn't a peep out of them our their supporters when gas is almost double that in just 4 years. How can he be for cheaper oil when he has done nothing to help? Again it's his actions that speak, not words.

Look we all want better things in the world and a better future. I look at sci fi things and dream of a place like that. The difference is we have to plan to get there instead of putting things into action without the thoughts on how it will affect everyone else.


Gas has been consistently 3.20-3.50 or more since I've started driving. That was back in 2006, two years before Obama was elected. Gas has not doubled since Obama has been in office. Not even close.
I know my last few posts have been on the more idealistic side. However, I'm sure democracy seemed idealistic at a time when emperors ruled. And thousands of years later it's our reality. Now that everyone's had their say I'm more on board with moving forward with Obama than staying stagnant or god forbid backwards with Romney.
As Sentinel said, we'll see how many people agree with me in about a month.

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#312 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 30 September 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

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@Sent: Like I said it will boil down to people blaming someone else instead of themselves or their actions.

Because only the gossip and the no lives want to know how many sex tapes whoever and whoever made with a fake version of whoever.


You are right. I am indeed butthurt, very butthurt to be precise.

Taxes:
Federal withholding YTD Amount: $2339.00
Social Security Employee YTD Amount: $2305.05
Medicare Employee YTD Amount: $2105.32
IL – Withholding YTD Amount: $2363.16
Total YTD (from latest check stub): $9112.53

Yes, I am very damn butthurt considering that these are only the taxes that are 'directly' taken out of my checks... unlike all the other lovely taxes I am 'required' to pay.

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 30 September 2012 - 09:22 PM


#313 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:53 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 30 September 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

You are right. I am indeed butthurt, very butthurt to be precise.

Taxes:
Federal withholding YTD Amount: $2339.00
Social Security Employee YTD Amount: $2305.05
Medicare Employee YTD Amount: $2105.32
IL – Withholding YTD Amount: $2363.16
Total YTD (from latest check stub): $9112.53

Yes, I am very damn butthurt considering that these are only the taxes that are 'directly' taken out of my checks... unlike all the other lovely taxes I am 'required' to pay.


Where you getting these figures from?


@Kahad: The government doesn't control our wallet per say. You could NOT buy health insurance but then you have to pay out the butt when something happens. You could NOT get auto insurance (mind you I know a lot of people here that do and I try not to drive in the same bloody car as them) but if you get caught by the po po or get into a wreak not only will you go to jail, since it's a law to have such thing due to idiots, but pay out the butt.

The only thing you can't avoid are taxes, like water you need to pay those for the rest of your life. You COULD avoid them but well it's tricky. You would have to practically be homeless/not making any money and who wants that? Even then you pay taxes if you buy anything (state wise.)

For the energy issue, it's not going to happen overnight, neither is paying off the deficit. It's going to take years; maybe not your lifetime. Most of these issues are going to take a long long time. But not getting a job because you're Hispanic? That's instant, life changing, and now. Which is why I focus on those issues more so than the long term big picture issues.

If you get mad at taxes and sound like you suffered from a burn heal, then there are two options:

1) Run for office and change the way your state runs taxes and then your congress. As you know and as I stated IL has a high tax rate here. The last time I bought a ds lite I had to pay a good 30-40 dollars extra on top of the 130 USD.

2) Get a job that doesn't pay as much, thus less taxes or get an occupation that you can do write offs. The more you get on your pay check the more you pay out. Simple. Don't want to because of rent/bills/drinking your rum with your vodka and getting cheap hookers after work? Well too bad! They took a lot out of my pay check at my last job (which was 8.60 hr,) but not so much at this one (which is 11 hr;) probably because I'm working on call and it's not as many hours as my part time job.

For Kami's sake don't complain if you are not going to do anything about it. My job isn't that great but you know what? Like taxes I deal with it with a smile and until I figure out a better way to handle the situation besides complaining to Mary sue and my boss or how I don't get paid enough.

EDIT: The main reason why I won't run for office outside of jokes? I'm too much of an introvert and a doormat in real life. I thought about it seriously but nobody wants an introvert in any political affairs.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 30 September 2012 - 09:55 PM

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#314 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostKii, on 30 September 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Gas has been consistently 3.20-3.50 or more since I've started driving. That was back in 2006, two years before Obama was elected. Gas has not doubled since Obama has been in office. Not even close.
I know my last few posts have been on the more idealistic side. However, I'm sure democracy seemed idealistic at a time when emperors ruled. And thousands of years later it's our reality. Now that everyone's had their say I'm more on board with moving forward with Obama than staying stagnant or god forbid backwards with Romney.
As Sentinel said, we'll see how many people agree with me in about a month.

Gas was 2.50 here when Barak took office. It as since consitantally been over 3 dollars here and is currently at 3.79. So no, it has not doubled. But there is no way you can say energy costs have gone down since his been in office.

View PostUnlucky Slayer, on 30 September 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Not just California that has emissions testing. While not nearly as strict on the guidelines, we still have to test our cars here in NWI. Cant afford the fix? Get a different car.
Sure, cuz you know. That totally doesn't cost any money.

This post has been edited by Dark Stranger: 30 September 2012 - 10:23 PM

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#315 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 30 September 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Where you getting these figures from?



Is this a serious question?

When one receives a check, there is a perforated line that separates the “check” and the “check stub.” Every company has their checks printed out with their logos, and layouts however the concept is always the same.

The Check:
One signs the back of a “check” and brings it to a bank to deposit in an account or in some cases exchange for cash. Technology these days allow different means to deposit such checks (ie. A photo).

The Check Stub:
A check stub provides the receiver of the check information about how the “Net Pay” was finalized. A basic check stub has three sections: “Earnings and Hours,” “Taxes,” and “Adjustments to Net Pay.”

Earnings and Hours:
This consist of Qty of hours, Rate of pay, current (this current check), and YTD (total for the year thus far).

Taxes:
This differs between states however, a basic example in IL is both the current and YTD for “Federal Withholding,” “Social Security Employee,” “Medicare Employee,” and “IL – Withholding.”

Adjustments to Net Pay:
This consists of the current and YTD amount of money after Taxes (the money you actually get in your check).

Now when you get a check of your own, you will understand the basics of what's going on. :) Glad to help.

#316 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 30 September 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Where you getting these figures from?






Checkstub It's the taxes they take out.

(Even so, what exactly is Mine expecting? Romney to take some of those taxes away?)

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 30 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

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#317 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:37 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 30 September 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Is this a serious question?

When one receives a check, there is a perforated line that separates the “check” and the “check stub.” Every company has their checks printed out with their logos, and layouts however the concept is always the same.

The Check:
One signs the back of a “check” and brings it to a bank to deposit in an account or in some cases exchange for cash. Technology these days allow different means to deposit such checks (ie. A photo).

The Check Stub:
A check stub provides the receiver of the check information about how the “Net Pay” was finalized. A basic check stub has three sections: “Earnings and Hours,” “Taxes,” and “Adjustments to Net Pay.”

Earnings and Hours:
This consist of Qty of hours, Rate of pay, current (this current check), and YTD (total for the year thus far).

Taxes:
This differs between states however, a basic example in IL is both the current and YTD for “Federal Withholding,” “Social Security Employee,” “Medicare Employee,” and “IL – Withholding.”

Adjustments to Net Pay:
This consists of the current and YTD amount of money after Taxes (the money you actually get in your check).

Now when you get a check of your own, you will understand the basics of what's going on. :) Glad to help.


Save the sass. Once you stop ignoring facts, and after you plug your holey butthurt response (from earlier), you can then "feel" as you are better then someone.

If you are going to try to insult someone, stop with the pretentious crap...or better yet, don't do it at all. Holier-than-thou isn't really funny. Just so you know.
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#318 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:44 PM

I agree that alternative energy and the deficit won't be changed or paid off overnight. There's a difference, however: the Democrats want alternative energy now, and plan on ignoring the deficit. Obama's own plans--on his campaign website--claim that he wants to try another Solyndra-style solar investment and another stimulus. Both failed, miserably, the last time we tried it.

The definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity.

While I'm all for alternative energy, we've got to do it right! Sadly, the EPA is not shutting down "redundant" coal-fired electrical plants. The eastern US is set to lose 66 plants over the next two years, with nothing more than pie-in-the-sky solar/wind to replace them. (Montana has already lost one. It won't cause too many problems here, as our other coal plants can take up the slack--assuming the EPA doesn't shut them down too. It won't affect where I live, but other places won't be as lucky.) It would be one thing if coal plants were being shut down and replaced with nuclear or gas-fired plants, but they're not--nuclear energy is everyone's boogeyman for some reason, and natural gas is under attack for fracking.

The crazy thing about all this is that the EPA's doing it for "the environment." Even if you believe in manmade global warming, shutting down coal-fired plants isn't going to do a bit of good--not with China smoking it up with a new coal plant every week. China doesn't have an EPA. That's a shame for the Chinese, but they trade off choking on smog by watching the United States commit economic suicide.

Gas prices have not doubled in Illinois, perhaps, but they have steadily risen elsewhere. We should not be surprised. Steven Chu, who became Obama's Secretary of Energy, stated before the 2008 election that the US should have gas prices as high as Europe's. He later went back on that statement, apparently having been provided with a map that shows the US as twice the size of the continent of Europe. This confusion of the very large US with very small European countries seems to permeate the Obama administration--universal health care is a great idea, if you have the population of Sweden.

I truly, truly doubt that if Romney's elected, he'll immediately send Exxon-Mobil over to our national parks and commence drilling. For one thing, it would piss off a lot of Americans; we may not be Earth Firsters, but we do like our parks pristine. For another, it's a stupid idea--there's no oil in our parks, much less our wildernesses. No one's going to be sinking a well near Old Faithful because there's nothing there. (Other than a gigantic supervolcano...) No reason to look for oil in Yellowstone or the Great Smokies, when the Bakken formation has more oil under it than all of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Kingdoms combined. That's the USGS talking, not Big Oil. Lotsa cheap oil under our land will make things a lot easier to transition from our current oil-based economy to alternative energy, and give alternative energy time to mature and become affordable.


This is the same scare tactics that the Democrats have been pushing from day one of this campaign. If Romney's elected, he's gonna kill Grandma by cutting Medicare, he's gonna chain women to their kitchens by denying them birth control, we're gonna be stuck with thousands of unwanted babies when abortion's outlawed, everyone's gonna die from rationed healthcare, we're gonna go attack Iran for giggles, and the seas will rise and kill us all because Mother Gaia hates Republicans.

Please. Medicare and Social Security is already broke (but Ryan seems to be the only one who acknowledges it), birth control will be out there for all (you'll just have to pay the $19 a month for it), Congress doesn't have the votes to outlaw abortions, Obamacare is going to accelerate the loss of insurance and ensure rationing, and if Iran gets the bomb, it won't matter who's in office. And Mother Gaia really doesn't give a damn about what humans do.

But...the election's kind of a win-win for me. If Obama gets elected, sure--I'll be upset. But if you liberal people are right, then he'll turn out okay and everything will be fine; I don't care if the economy improves on a Democrat's watch, so long as it improves.

If Romney wins, well and good--though I won't build him up to be some sort of rockstar. A businessman will be good enough for me. Rockstars belong on American Idol, not in the White House.

If Obama wins and he becomes the disaster that we conservatives think he is, well...at least we can say later, we told you so. And probably get Congress back in 2014, assuming it doesn't happen this year--which actually could be the best scenario for all 100% of us. Gridlock can bring the best out in politicians; we saw it in 1982, and in 1995.

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#319 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:53 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 30 September 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Now when you get a check of your own, you will understand the basics of what's going on. :) Glad to help.


Oh, you're so snarky. How delightful.

This post has been edited by Kii: 30 September 2012 - 10:57 PM


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#320 User is offline   Unlucky Slayer 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 September 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Sure, cuz you know. That totally doesn't cost any money.

Comes with car ownership. You are not forced to own a car. There is always bikes and mopeds and stuff.
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#321 User is offline   Steam_Loli216 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:57 AM

Yeah can we talk about how ridiculously expensive it is to own a car in Japan? With the US's economy not doing so hot, the dollar to yen exchange rate is awful over here. My JCI (inspection to make sure car passes emissions and is driveable) was almost 800$... road tax, insurance... holy cow. Not to mention normal maintenance.

Now that I'm about to move to San Diego, I'm not expecting much of a break. The apartment my husband got for us is 1400 a month. We have to get two different cars since we work on two different bases, and mine needs to be a reliable midsized since I'll be with the baby most of the time. Not. Cheap.

Yeah, you know, forking over **** tons of money sucks BUT I know if someone were to run into me, my car insurance is good and everything will be taken care of. Can't always say that for the other person. I make sure my a** is covered, why can't you? People who try to slip through the cracks really tick me off.

And someone had the nerve to say "well you're getting Uncle Sam's money" and I'm like mother trucker, I work twice as hard as you, heck yeah uncle sam better be putting out.

Hey, at least we're not North Korea.
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#322 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 30 September 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Save the sass. Once you stop ignoring facts, and after you plug your holey butthurt response (from earlier), you can then "feel" as you are better then someone.

If you are going to try to insult someone, stop with the pretentious crap...or better yet, don't do it at all. Holier-than-thou isn't really funny. Just so you know.


lol, the response from before was a copy paste meant to be 100% sarcastic... only a fool with a double digit IQ would fail to see though that... than again the average IQ in the United States is 98....

I don't agree with where my taxes are going... therefore, I have taken quite a few extensive steps this year to reduce my taxes... this way I actually get a tax return instead of paying more... It's time to 'play the system.'

It's funny, everyone things that conservatives are so angry that Obama will be re-elected in 2012. That's not true. Many of us act like we are appalled... when in fact we are quite excited. Obama being re-elected is not entirely a negative thing. In another 4 years, it will completely destroy the Democratic Party. Unlike liberals, fortunately, conservatives have a series of key individuals gaining increasingly positive reputations and will inevitably be running in 2016. Romney (considerably a weak link compared to others who opted out out from running this year) will not be the GOP pick for 2016.

If Romney was to be elected 2012... it would delay the process. Romney, would also be a one term president... and that means... in 2016 he would be beaten by a liberal thus delaying a conservative take over until 2020.

I am financially stable, and can guarantee my well-being until 2016 plus. I can afford to wait until then to gain my bragging rights. However, I feel that many people who are so anti-Romney and anti-conservative will not be able to wait. I'll sip my Crown royal, sit back , watch my accounts continue to grow, and continue to enjoy life and work.

#323 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 01 October 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

lol, the response from before was a copy paste meant to be 100% sarcastic... only a fool with a double digit IQ would fail to see though that... than again the average IQ in the United States is 98....

I don't agree with where my taxes are going... therefore, I have taken quite a few extensive steps this year to reduce my taxes... this way I actually get a tax return instead of paying more... It's time to 'play the system.'

It's funny, everyone things that conservatives are so angry that Obama will be re-elected in 2012. That's not true. Many of us act like we are appalled... when in fact we are quite excited. Obama being re-elected is not entirely a negative thing. In another 4 years, it will completely destroy the Democratic Party. Unlike liberals, fortunately, conservatives have a series of key individuals gaining increasingly positive reputations and will inevitably be running in 2016. Romney (considerably a weak link compared to others who opted out out from running this year) will not be the GOP pick for 2016.

If Romney was to be elected 2012... it would delay the process. Romney, would also be a one term president... and that means... in 2016 he would be beaten by a liberal thus delaying a conservative take over until 2020.

I am financially stable, and can guarantee my well-being until 2016 plus. I can afford to wait until then to gain my bragging rights. However, I feel that many people who are so anti-Romney and anti-conservative will not be able to wait. I'll sip my Crown royal, sit back , watch my accounts continue to grow, and continue to enjoy life and work.


Hehehe you are so cute with putting another insult in. So adorable.

Serious question tho, do you have some sort of inferiority complex? This post is litered with such evidence. Almost everything you post tends to extenuate your awesomeness and how you just don't get how we lowly peons live. All the other conservative minded people (such as juju, sent, kahad, DS...etc) post their points and don't do so with a dagger hidden behind. Of course we will disagree, but "trying "to assess superiority? No. That's how fights start. Maybe people would respect you more if you debated in good form, instead of "you silly fool, im so much higher I am just so magnificent. Why can't the world have more of me?"

Anywho. Yes you posted the obvious. Party hatred changes quickly. Both parties fling mud when the other changes nothing. So what's your point? You just want bragging rights? Well good for you. But completely destroying the party. Heh...time will tell. It's safe to say the house will have a Democratic majority, so we'll see how things go without Obama getting blocked every 5 seconds. So go ahead and sip your drink....and live and be happy. How about you let everyone else do the same.
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#324 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 01 October 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Hehehe you are so cute with putting another insult in. So adorable.

Serious question tho, do you have some sort of inferiority complex? This post is litered with such evidence. Almost everything you post tends to extenuate your awesomeness and how you just don't get how we lowly peons live. All the other conservative minded people (such as juju, sent, kahad, DS...etc) post their points and don't do so with a dagger hidden behind. Of course we will disagree, but "trying "to assess superiority? No. That's how fights start. Maybe people would respect you more if you debated in good form, instead of "you silly fool, im so much higher I am just so magnificent. Why can't the world have more of me?"

Anywho. Yes you posted the obvious. Party hatred changes quickly. Both parties fling mud when the other changes nothing. So what's your point? You just want bragging rights? Well good for you. But completely destroying the party. Heh...time will tell. It's safe to say the house will have a Democratic majority, so we'll see how things go without Obama getting blocked every 5 seconds. So go ahead and sip your drink....and live and be happy. How about you let everyone else do the same.


Well, it’s rather simple really. In the ‘real’ world, I remain relatively calm and constantly respectable. I am forced to attend numerous meetings and side talk with many people. I ensue you... in person I always display proper adequate. Actually, I tend to tell everybody what it is they desire to hear.

However, this is an online forum and not the ‘real’ world. Here I seek the respect of no one. Here I have no intentions to communicate with anyone outside of the forum. Here, I don’t have to burden myself worrying about not seeing ‘eye to eye’ with another. Here I find amusement and fun 100% of the time. Actually, if you look back to the start of the topic I started off rather formal and honorable. However, after being directly targeted by a series of individuals seeking instigation (perhaps that’s all they know in situations that involve politics), I decided to give them what it was they were seeking.

To answer your question, no, I do not have an inferiority complex. Consequently, yes, I do feel that I am indeed superior to others and rightfully so. I have succeeded where many other individuals have failed… mainly due to a lack of motivation, responsibility, and a desire to grow up and wear their own shoes instead of the governments. You should try it. Repeat after me: “I am magnificent. I am successful. I am fabulous. I am financially secure. God blessed me with fine family and friends. God blessed me with a healthy body and fair looks. God blessed me to be born in a 1st world country. God blessed me with a family that built motivation. I enjoy everything I do (including posting on these forms). I enjoy the company of those around me in the ‘real’ world and choose to omit those who push misery. I am happy. I have opportunities grasp. I have ‘goals.’ I will continue to progress while others fall and I will not burden myself constantly trying to pick of the pieces for them.” Try it! It's quite refreshing. A fair self-esteem does indeed induce motivation.

No worries, if worse comes to worst I will still sip on my Crown Royal… just perhaps… overseas where the environment is a little bit more friendly towards those who succeed. I will have fun, just as I was dancing the waltz sipping on Champaign while masses of Occupy Wall Street herded in Chicago in front of certain banks.

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This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 01 October 2012 - 11:08 AM


#325 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 01 October 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

It's safe to say the house will have a Democratic majority, so we'll see how things go without Obama getting blocked every 5 seconds.

I would say the Democrats have an outside chance at best of winning the majority.

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#326 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 01 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Well, it’s rather simple really. In the ‘real’ world, I remain relatively calm and constantly respectable. I am forced to attend numerous meetings and side talk with many people. I ensue you... in person I always display proper adequate. Actually, I tend to tell everybody what it is they desire to hear.

However, this is an online forum and not the ‘real’ world. Here I seek the respect of no one. Here I have no intentions to communicate with anyone outside of the forum. Here, I don’t have to burden myself worrying about not seeing ‘eye to eye’ with another. Here I find amusement and fun 100% of the time. Actually, if you look back to the start of the topic I started off rather formal and honorable. However, after being directly targeted by a series of individuals seeking instigation (perhaps that’s all they know in situations that involve politics), I decided to give them what it was they were seeking.

Okay I didn't want to get involved in this little bit of drama, but that attitude stinks to high heaven. That is exactly the internet troll mentality, you're hiding behind anonymity and therefor you can act as rude as you want with no repercussions that one would have in the real world.

Regardless of who I am talking to, be it IRL or behind a screen name, I always try my best to use respect, restraint, and a good attitude. I'm sorry, but after reading how you treat people in real life, and on the internet I've lost major respect for you. I'm not saying I'm a perfect goody two shoes who always minds their P's and Q's, but I try to conduct myself in a manner that respects others, is not full of guile, and reflects well on my character.

Please be respectful to others and treat them how you would want to be treated(this goes for everyone). This is a debate thread(a very interesting one so far), not a place for personal attacks.
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#327 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:08 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 01 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Well, it’s rather simple really. In the ‘real’ world, I remain relatively calm and constantly respectable. I am forced to attend numerous meetings and side talk with many people. I ensue you... in person I always display proper adequate. Actually, I tend to tell everybody what it is they desire to hear.

However, this is an online forum and not the ‘real’ world. Here I seek the respect of no one. Here I have no intentions to communicate with anyone outside of the forum. Here, I don’t have to burden myself worrying about not seeing ‘eye to eye’ with another. Here I find amusement and fun 100% of the time. Actually, if you look back to the start of the topic I started off rather formal and honorable. However, after being directly targeted by a series of individuals seeking instigation (perhaps that’s all they know in situations that involve politics), I decided to give them what it was they were seeking.

To answer your question, no, I do not have an inferiority complex. Consequently, yes, I do feel that I am indeed superior to others and rightfully so. I have succeeded where many other individuals have failed… mainly due to a lack of motivation, responsibility, and a desire to grow up and wear their own shoes instead of the governments. You should try it. Repeat after me: “I am magnificent. I am successful. I am fabulous. I am financially secure. God blessed me with fine family and friends. God blessed me with a healthy body and fair looks. God blessed me to be born in a 1st world country. God blessed me with a family that built motivation. I enjoy everything I do (including posting on these forms). I enjoy the company of those around me in the ‘real’ world and choose to omit those who push misery. I am happy. I have opportunities grasp. I have ‘goals.’ I will continue to progress while others fall and I will not burden myself constantly trying to pick of the pieces for them.” Try it! It's quite refreshing. A fair self-esteem does indeed induce motivation.

No worries, if worse comes to worst I will still sip on my Crown Royal… just perhaps… overseas where the environment is a little bit more friendly towards those who succeed. I will have fun, just as I was dancing the waltz sipping on Champaign while masses of Occupy Wall Street herded in Chicago in front of certain banks.

Kick back, relax and have fun. Play it! Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing


Since you have an internet shield, you are free to do as you please right? No one deserves respect because we aren't in your face. Ohhh, I can assure you, if you were in my face or behind a computer I'd still tell you (anyone, not just you) off. I'm blunt (tho I've been working on it) so I tell it how it is. And you are aware being successful money wise is subjective. Money isn't an end all. We need it, but who says everyone wants a huge amount of it. Feeling superior over that is almost a Pyrrhic victory. You aren't winning over everyone. That's good you feel successful, but feeling better than others? Please. They do say the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. And ive no need to recite such stuff because im confident enough as is. I don't need to reassure myself like im borderline depressed. (I really want to go on how so many "Christians" who are conservative are huge hypocrites, but im not going to waste energy. Oh btw before you say I hate God, I consider my Christian.)

I believe treating people good (besides the ones who are all uppity...I struggle with that) no matter where. Im done going back and forth with this, I had much more, but this is getting ridiculous. Ill say one last thing...

You hate the government needing people, and just love businesses so much, tell when businesses cared about the people? Lemme know when they gave fair wages without the government forcing them. Or unions. (I can't think of any until AFTER big bad government forced them too.)
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#328 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

View PostUnlucky Slayer, on 01 October 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Comes with car ownership. You are not forced to own a car. There is always bikes and mopeds and stuff.

Yeah, so I should be a rich enough to pay for every slight mantienace problem with my car? I don't think so. Also, I don't live in a city big enough to were bikes or mopeds are effective ways to get to work. If all else would go horriablly wrong, yes I'd have to. But don't like like somehow just having a car means that your automactcally made it keep it at top condition. It's like saying since your on a bike you need to keep the paint shiney at all times, "that comes with bike ownership".
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#329 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostXenoBlade, on 01 October 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Since you have an internet shield, you are free to do as you please right? No one deserves respect because we aren't in your face. Ohhh, I can assure you, if you were in my face or behind a computer I'd still tell you (anyone, not just you) off. I'm blunt (tho I've been working on it) so I tell it how it is. And you are aware being successful money wise is subjective. Money isn't an end all. We need it, but who says everyone wants a huge amount of it. Feeling superior over that is almost a Pyrrhic victory. You aren't winning over everyone. That's good you feel successful, but feeling better than others? Please. They do say the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. And ive no need to recite such stuff because im confident enough as is. I don't need to reassure myself like im borderline depressed. (I really want to go on how so many "Christians" who are conservative are huge hypocrites, but im not going to waste energy. Oh btw before you say I hate God, I consider my Christian.)

I believe treating people good (besides the ones who are all uppity...I struggle with that) no matter where. Im done going back and forth with this, I had much more, but this is getting ridiculous. Ill say one last thing...

You hate the government needing people, and just love businesses so much, tell when businesses cared about the people? Lemme know when they gave fair wages without the government forcing them. Or unions. (I can't think of any until AFTER big bad government forced them too.)


Bluntness is rather shunned and quickly replaces in my place of employment. However, I have a feeling that in the real world I demonstrate far more charisma and charity than the average bear. Like I said before, I shine at something we all have: two-facedness. I tell people what it is they desire to hear, thus not offending them or agitating them.

Not winning over others? *turns on the news* ahh, I see… Everybody judges everyone (even you), regardless of whom they are. Likewise, everyone compares themselves to everyone else.

I do not ‘hate’ the government. I dislike big government. I believe it’s the governments job to secure our borders, police the streets, uphold the finest national defense, things of that magnitude. I do not believe it’s the government’s job to ensure that every citizen is entitled to a satisfactory lifestyle. I do not believe it’s the government’s job to tell individuals they are required to wear a seat belt, if they lack enough common sense to click it, than let god decide the rest if they end up in an accident. I do not believe it's the governments job to say who and who can not marry. I do not feel it's the governments job to say whether abortion is ethical or not. I do not believe it's the governments job to say anything about religion or not... if some company wants to say merry christmass when people leave... or happy Hanukkah than so be it... if it offends someone, let them cry about it at night. If a company choose to not celebrate the holidays... than so be it. Who cares? Only very few radicals from both liberal and conservative sides... blockers of progress in my eyes. I do not feel the government should tax me more on certain foods just because select individuals desire to eat large quantities of considered unhealthy foods… I do not believe it’s governments job to end competition… I don’t feel like going into a store and only have one cereal box to choose from, etc.

Not all liberals and conservatives are the same. Not all liberals are communists or socialists… just like not all conservatives are racist, religious, and pro big corporations.

There are emerging liberals and conservatives both with considerably different ideals. When social issues are put to the side, many of them tend to agree. For example... I don't think anyone could truthfully say that we do not need to cut spending. The only fear I have is the growing number of individuals who lack motivation and desire to supported by the government... because that's what they know... because that is what they have seen.

Edit: Relax, have some fun! Play it! Don't Look Back (Quickdrop Remix)

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 01 October 2012 - 01:37 PM


#330 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:34 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 01 October 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Yeah, so I should be a rich enough to pay for every slight mantienace problem with my car? I don't think so. Also, I don't live in a city big enough to were bikes or mopeds are effective ways to get to work. If all else would go horriablly wrong, yes I'd have to. But don't like like somehow just having a car means that your automactcally made it keep it at top condition. It's like saying since your on a bike you need to keep the paint shiney at all times, "that comes with bike ownership".


I find the best way to own a vehicle, if applicable in your situation, is to always remain under warranty than upon loosing the warranty trade for the updated model.

In fact, the other day one of my windows stooped operating correctly. I brought it to the dealership, and with just my signature, it was fixed free of charge.

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