[Dark Stranger]

sentinel28a, on 06 September 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Given that the Democrats' platform includes nearly $700 million in new spending...I'm not confident of their committment to budget reduction. Especially since a good portion of that is apparently on a new stimulus.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Because the last one worked so well"

Oh! And don't forget Obama even spouted himself as "the most fiscally reasponsable president". What a load.

[YoungBirdcall]

minecraftsmurf, on 10 September 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

@ YoungBirdcall You seem to like to do research!!! So take a little peak into the Heritage Foundation.

You can learn:
- The top 10% of earners pay 71% of the Federal Income taxes (after tax returns).
- The bottom 50% earns 13% of the total income... however, paid 2% of Federal Incomes taxes (after tax returns).
- Only 55% of American households pay Federal Income taxes (after Tax Returns).

"About half of households pay no federal income taxes, but federal income taxes amount only 30% of the taxes paid in this country. Consider all the taxes paid by a single home health aide earning minimum wage for full-time work, $14,500 per year. She pays over $2,500 in total direct taxes plus about $2,800 in indirect taxes, in all 37% of her wages. Her direct taxes include $600 in federal income taxes and $1,100 in direct federal payroll taxes ... and no, she would not qualify for the earned income tax credit or for food stamps. A widow living on Social Security benefits can easily pay 30% of her income on property and other taxes. Both pay about 3 times the rate paid by Warren Buffett on his investment gains. The group paying no federal income taxes consists of mostly the elderly and disabled living on Social Security, those laid off in the current recession, students with part-time work, and large families earning very low wages. All of these groups pay other taxes, often exceeding their fair share compared to 1) their ability to pay and 2) their wealth derived from economic infrastructure provided by governments."

kahad, on 10 September 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Salon is a hack website for liberals. You'll going to have to do a LOT better than that.
I've been there once. Obama could revoke the entire Constitution, and they would praise them for it. They are THAT addicted to the blue kool-aid.

Salon may be a "hack website for liberals," but that article was written by a self-avowed Republican who was forced to change his mind once he discovered the actual condition of our country and its policies, its wartime efforts, and its citizens.

[sentinel28a]

YoungBirdcall, on 11 September 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

"About half of households pay no federal income taxes, but federal income taxes amount only 30% of the taxes paid in this country. Consider all the taxes paid by a single home health aide earning minimum wage for full-time work, $14,500 per year. She pays over $2,500 in total direct taxes plus about $2,800 in indirect taxes, in all 37% of her wages. Her direct taxes include $600 in federal income taxes and $1,100 in direct federal payroll taxes ... and no, she would not qualify for the earned income tax credit or for food stamps. A widow living on Social Security benefits can easily pay 30% of her income on property and other taxes. Both pay about 3 times the rate paid by Warren Buffett on his investment gains. The group paying no federal income taxes consists of mostly the elderly and disabled living on Social Security, those laid off in the current recession, students with part-time work, and large families earning very low wages. All of these groups pay other taxes, often exceeding their fair share compared to 1) their ability to pay and 2) their wealth derived from economic infrastructure provided by governments."

Salon may be a "hack website for liberals," but that article was written by a self-avowed Republican who was forced to change his mind once he discovered the actual condition of our country and its policies, its wartime efforts, and its citizens.

So why not cut taxes for everyone? "We can't!" says government officials. Why not? "We need that money!" For what? Congressional pay raises? More auto bailouts for companies doomed to fail anyway? Entitlements that are devouring the budget? Another aircraft carrier?

I do think the Democrats are worse at pandering, but both parties are guilty of this. Taxes need not be increased, or if they are, the American people need to know why. I would accept an increase in my taxes if it went to paying down the deficit. Government, though, needs to quit spending so much on crap the US doesn't need. It's like buying capsule figures when you're on food stamps.

Congress doesn't need more pay raises. GM doesn't need to produce the failed Volt for "the environment." Social Security can be privatized for younger people (would you like to keep having $50 a paycheck taken out for a system you will never use?). The US Navy can get by with ten carriers, considering our only real naval threat is China, which has none. (Japan has more carriers than China.) We don't need to throw money at boondoggles like Solyndra or the far more ridiculous high-speed rail project in California. And no more stimuluses! Let the economy recover and quit screwing with it.

I'd be careful when you hear that a "self-avowed" Republican is suddenly supporting Obama, or a self-avowed Democrat is suddenly supporting Romney. Polls I've read (yeah, I know, polls) say that there's been more defections from the Dems to the GOP, but most of the time, these "self-avowed" people never belonged to the party in question, or belonged to them 15 years ago. For instance, a woman who claimed to be a registered Republican in a pro-Obama Colorado ad turned out to have last registered with the Republican party during Clinton's administration, and her Facebook friends consisted of so many liberal causes that even Joe Biden would've said, "Now just slow your roll..."

Political opinions often take a long time to change. It took 9/11 for me to consider GW Bush as a decent President, as I had voted for Gore in 2000. It wasn't until 2003 and the irrational hatred I saw of Bush that I decided I'd vote for him in 2004. (That and Kerry...geez, Kerry.) Though I consider myself a conservative, I support gay marriage, think we should probably start bringing the troops home from Afghanistan (or make a firm commitment to be in it to win it), and do support sensible defense cuts. There's even some aspects of Obamacare I don't find horrible. I'm voting Romney because I agree with him 75% of the time and agree with Obama only about 20% of the time.

When it comes to any news outlet, check it. Salon leans heavily to the left (and often the far left), as does Think Progress and Media Matters. Fox is of course to the right, as is HotAir and Red State. The truth is somewhere in the middle. About the only fairly nonpartisan news outlet I've found in regards to American politics is the Wall Street Journal. (The BBC is good on occasion, but terrible in regards to Europe and excellent in regards to Asia.)

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Caveat emptor"

[kahad]

sentinel28a, on 11 September 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

So why not cut taxes for everyone? "We can't!" says government officials. Why not? "We need that money!" For what? Congressional pay raises? More auto bailouts for companies doomed to fail anyway? Entitlements that are devouring the budget? Another aircraft carrier?

I do think the Democrats are worse at pandering, but both parties are guilty of this. Taxes need not be increased, or if they are, the American people need to know why. I would accept an increase in my taxes if it went to paying down the deficit. Government, though, needs to quit spending so much on crap the US doesn't need. It's like buying capsule figures when you're on food stamps.

Congress doesn't need more pay raises. GM doesn't need to produce the failed Volt for "the environment." Social Security can be privatized for younger people (would you like to keep having $50 a paycheck taken out for a system you will never use?). The US Navy can get by with ten carriers, considering our only real naval threat is China, which has none. (Japan has more carriers than China.) We don't need to throw money at boondoggles like Solyndra or the far more ridiculous high-speed rail project in California. And no more stimuluses! Let the economy recover and quit screwing with it.

I'd be careful when you hear that a "self-avowed" Republican is suddenly supporting Obama, or a self-avowed Democrat is suddenly supporting Romney. Polls I've read (yeah, I know, polls) say that there's been more defections from the Dems to the GOP, but most of the time, these "self-avowed" people never belonged to the party in question, or belonged to them 15 years ago. For instance, a woman who claimed to be a registered Republican in a pro-Obama Colorado ad turned out to have last registered with the Republican party during Clinton's administration, and her Facebook friends consisted of so many liberal causes that even Joe Biden would've said, "Now just slow your roll..."

Political opinions often take a long time to change. It took 9/11 for me to consider GW Bush as a decent President, as I had voted for Gore in 2000. It wasn't until 2003 and the irrational hatred I saw of Bush that I decided I'd vote for him in 2004. (That and Kerry...geez, Kerry.) Though I consider myself a conservative, I support gay marriage, think we should probably start bringing the troops home from Afghanistan (or make a firm commitment to be in it to win it), and do support sensible defense cuts. There's even some aspects of Obamacare I don't find horrible. I'm voting Romney because I agree with him 75% of the time and agree with Obama only about 20% of the time.

When it comes to any news outlet, check it. Salon leans heavily to the left (and often the far left), as does Think Progress and Media Matters. Fox is of course to the right, as is HotAir and Red State. The truth is somewhere in the middle. About the only fairly nonpartisan news outlet I've found in regards to American politics is the Wall Street Journal. (The BBC is good on occasion, but terrible in regards to Europe and excellent in regards to Asia.)

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Caveat emptor"

I wish there was an amendment in the Constitution that banned pay raises whenever there is a national debt.

And political opinions do take a long time to change. I was a hardcore social and economic conservative when I first registered to vote back in 2000. It was not until 2008 - 2009 that became more moderate.

And add Newsbusters to the list of very red news outlets. I used to read them but their calls for "Republican party purity" ticked me off. It's idiots like that them that gave us Ken Buck(Colorado), Sharron Angle(Nevada), Christine O'Donnell(Delaware), and Todd Akin(Missouri).

[minecraftsmurf]

YoungBirdcall, on 11 September 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

"About half of households pay no federal income taxes, but federal income taxes amount only 30% of the taxes paid in this country. Consider all the taxes paid by a single home health aide earning minimum wage for full-time work, $14,500 per year. She pays over $2,500 in total direct taxes plus about $2,800 in indirect taxes, in all 37% of her wages. Her direct taxes include $600 in federal income taxes and $1,100 in direct federal payroll taxes ... and no, she would not qualify for the earned income tax credit or for food stamps. A widow living on Social Security benefits can easily pay 30% of her income on property and other taxes. Both pay about 3 times the rate paid by Warren Buffett on his investment gains. The group paying no federal income taxes consists of mostly the elderly and disabled living on Social Security, those laid off in the current recession, students with part-time work, and large families earning very low wages. All of these groups pay other taxes, often exceeding their fair share compared to 1) their ability to pay and 2) their wealth derived from economic infrastructure provided by governments."



Salon may be a "hack website for liberals," but that article was written by a self-avowed Republican who was forced to change his mind once he discovered the actual condition of our country and its policies, its wartime efforts, and its citizens.

I'll reply again with: http://www.ACen.org/...ost__p__1087753

So what's the goal? How much is enough to satisfy the hands that remain palm up with no calluses or burdens of effort? I bet... that even after at... those hands will remain palms up... and even more motiveless.

[minecraftsmurf]

I might as well be the bad girl and bring it up! I know there was a study done on this... but I can't find it. But those who submit long posts that drag on and on... they probably don't get read by many. Not to sound mean... if I find the study I'll link it to this. It pretty much came down to that those who come across a 50 lined post that has 5+ links to review... skip it.

Or in today's meme's: LOL NOPE!

[XenoBlade]

minecraftsmurf, on 12 September 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I might as well be the bad girl and bring it up! I know there was a study done on this... but I can't find it. But those who submit long posts that drag on and on... they probably don't get read by many. Not to sound mean... if I find the study I'll link it to this. It pretty much came down to that those who come across a 50 lined post that has 5+ links to review... skip it.

Or in today's meme's: LOL NOPE!

That's either ADHD or just uneducated folk.

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 12 September 2012 - 09:48 PM

[Kii]

XenoBlade, on 12 September 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

That's either ADHD or just uneducated folk.

Or people that don't want to read a two page rant every other post.Those people too.

[XenoBlade]

Kii, on 12 September 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Or people that don't want to read a two page rant every other post.Those people too.

Yeah that too, (I would have honestly included that but sounded like she was just saying just any random large post. Since it was a study and everything)

[sentinel28a]

kahad, on 11 September 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I wish there was an amendment in the Constitution that banned pay raises whenever there is a national debt.

And add Newsbusters to the list of very red news outlets. I used to read them but their calls for "Republican party purity" ticked me off. It's idiots like that them that gave us Ken Buck(Colorado), Sharron Angle(Nevada), Christine O'Donnell(Delaware), and Todd Akin(Missouri).

Oh hellz yeah on both points. I think everyone could get behind that amendment.

It always amazes me that, when a certain political party is on the outs after losing an election, so many people call for the party to become yet more radical. I've been screamed at by far right wingers for not insisting that Obama should be impeached. I may not like the guy's policies and consider him incompetent, but he hasn't committed any high crimes or misdemeanors.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Not sure about the DOJ"

[The Fujoshi]

Kii, on 12 September 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Or people that don't want to read a two page rant every other post.Those people too.

I agree but if people make really long posts and you respond to them with a counter argument and you were tl;dr, then people shouldn't respond to those. >.>;

I really hate the people who say that Obama should be shot on fb; those guys....are idiots.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 13 September 2012 - 12:50 PM

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 13 September 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I really hate the people who say that Obama should be shot on fb; those guys....are idiots.

Of course, but you are talking about the internet here. Face to face, all except the most crazy of individuals would say that.

[minecraftsmurf]

XenoBlade, on 12 September 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

That's either ADHD or just uneducated folk.

I disagree. Just lack of interest in many cases. I don't think that individuals necessarily care enough to spend the time to take into consideration a 30 minute read.

Additionally, saying that anyone should be shot is rather foolish... however, that does not mean it's not enjoyable to daydream about... as long as it stays a daydream... just like your zombie Apocalypse daydreams.

[The Fujoshi]

minecraftsmurf, on 13 September 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I disagree. Just lack of interest in many cases. I don't think that individuals necessarily care enough to spend the time to take into consideration a 30 minute read.

Additionally, saying that anyone should be shot is rather foolish... however, that does not mean it's not enjoyable to daydream about... as long as it stays a daydream... just like your zombie Apocalypse daydreams.

Words can turn into truth or viewed as so. Why you think some jobs look at people's facebooks, google their name or username from forums/conversations, or browser history at work? Or why people get fired over gossip?

Same goes for fetishes; if you like Guro there is a chance that you like doing guro irl.

30 minute read? I can read your post in five seconds or in less than a minute. People are self center to a fault and lazy when it comes to everything else or everyone else. So a lot of people say or do the whole "tl;dr," but then want to argue against your point.

If someone has enough time to write a 30 minute counter post then they have enough time to read and understand someone's post to not sound like an butt. It turns into a "NO U."

[Cherry_Wolf]

sentinel28a, on 11 September 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I do think the Democrats are worse at pandering, but both parties are guilty of this. Taxes need not be increased, or if they are, the American people need to know why. I would accept an increase in my taxes if it went to paying down the deficit. Government, though, needs to quit spending so much on crap the US doesn't need. It's like buying capsule figures when you're on food stamps.

Best in thread. I'm sorry, but maaaan sentinel! That made me crack up

[rondo]

Hmm, wonder how this Libya fiasco is going to affect the election. Some are evening saying warning was given about 48 hours before hand though I don't know how true this is. This incident and the ongoing craziness out in the ME may wind up defining this election.

[Dark Stranger]

As much as it might seem I think people are still more concerend about things that are directly affecting me. Gas is still insanly high, (which is a slight factor in the ME but I think more of it will go into drilling more of our own oil) jobs are still barely hiring or not giving enough hours (that's my boat, two jobs and still barely making it), the debt, etc.

[sentinel28a]

rondo, on 13 September 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Hmm, wonder how this Libya fiasco is going to affect the election. Some are evening saying warning was given about 48 hours before hand though I don't know how true this is. This incident and the ongoing craziness out in the ME may wind up defining this election.

If Obama ends up being defined as another Jimmy Carter, it could hurt him big time in the Midwest and West.

What would be worse is if he wins the election and ends up pulling a Carter. One thing I did admire about Obama was his attack on Libya. (Yeah, it didn't turn out well, but it's not like Qaddafi was any prize.) Hopefully it won't come to that in Syria or Egypt (or Iran!), but at the very least I'd be recalling my ambassador to Egypt and canceling their foreign aid.

This "I don't know if they're an ally" makes Obama look dumb. Look, dude--they jumped over the embassy wall, tore down our flag, ran up an al-Qaeda flag, and danced around like idiots. In response, the Egyptian government gives a tepid "Gee, they shouldn't have done that" and then called on Obama to prosecute the guy who made the stupid video in the meantime. (Note to Egyptian President Morsi: are you new to YouTube? This your first experience with a troll? U mad, bro?)

Good thing I'm not President. I'd have Egypt's ambassador heading back to Cairo with my size 12 footprint in his rear.

Though I don't think it's going to impact the election any, those of you interested in Asian affairs might keep an eye on Japan and China right now over those islands. China just sent ships in there today. Remember that Japan and China hate each other and have for 2000 years. Kinda scary...

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Some hatreds go to the bone"

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 13 September 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

As much as it might seem I think people are still more concerend about things that are directly affecting me. Gas is still insanly high, (which is a slight factor in the ME but I think more of it will go into drilling more of our own oil) jobs are still barely hiring or not giving enough hours (that's my boat, two jobs and still barely making it), the debt, etc.

Gas doesn't affect me but that's because I don't drive. It's mostly (for everyone:)

Abortion If you are a woman
Immigration If you are not a white male
HomosexualityIf you are not a straight white male or a straight minority
Debt/money Everyone else but the rich people

So far as the hot topics.

[linlindesu]

sentinel28a, on 13 September 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

If Obama ends up being defined as another Jimmy Carter, it could hurt him big time in the Midwest and West.

What would be worse is if he wins the election and ends up pulling a Carter. One thing I did admire about Obama was his attack on Libya. (Yeah, it didn't turn out well, but it's not like Qaddafi was any prize.) Hopefully it won't come to that in Syria or Egypt (or Iran!), but at the very least I'd be recalling my ambassador to Egypt and canceling their foreign aid.

This "I don't know if they're an ally" makes Obama look dumb. Look, dude--they jumped over the embassy wall, tore down our flag, ran up an al-Qaeda flag, and danced around like idiots. In response, the Egyptian government gives a tepid "Gee, they shouldn't have done that" and then called on Obama to prosecute the guy who made the stupid video in the meantime. (Note to Egyptian President Morsi: are you new to YouTube? This your first experience with a troll? U mad, bro?)

Good thing I'm not President. I'd have Egypt's ambassador heading back to Cairo with my size 12 footprint in his rear.

Though I don't think it's going to impact the election any, those of you interested in Asian affairs might keep an eye on Japan and China right now over those islands. China just sent ships in there today. Remember that Japan and China hate each other and have for 2000 years. Kinda scary...

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Some hatreds go to the bone"

they referring to the people that committed those crimes.
Not they as in the entire population of Syria and Egypt

Sure I know that there's still a ton of racist , sexist , homophobic, bible humping scum in this country (we all have a relative like that, don't we?)
But our whole nation isn't like that.
Those people were judging the views of few and acting as though that was the belief system of our entire country.
If we assume that Syria and Egypt are out to get us, that their fundamentals are to kill anyone and everyone that disagrees with them, we'll all be back to the post 9/11 paranoia. Anyone who isn't us is against us. Another pointless ideological war that will cost us more than tax dollars.

If anyone is really going to be hurt in a campaign sense ( and honestly, why the campaign was even brought into question less than a day after the loss of life is disgusting) it'll be Romney.
Why on earth would he go straight into insulting the President? That was almost too scum baggy ( even for him) I support freedom of speech and saying anything no matter what the time but when he says something wrong during a tragic time, who's really looking bad now?

[sentinel28a]

linlindesu, on 14 September 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

If anyone is really going to be hurt in a campaign sense ( and honestly, why the campaign was even brought into question less than a day after the loss of life is disgusting) it'll be Romney.
Why on earth would he go straight into insulting the President? That was almost too scum baggy ( even for him) I support freedom of speech and saying anything no matter what the time but when he says something wrong during a tragic time, who's really looking bad now?

If you support freedom of speech, you shouldn't be voting for Obama. Romney didn't send federal agents to oversee the questioning of an idiot who made a crappy YouTube video that offended someone. And before you say "Obama doesn't control federal probation officers"--you're right. The Department of Justice does. If Obama didn't know the DOJ was investigating someone for angering a perpetually angered people, then he's so out of the loop that he definitely doesn't deserve a second term. If I was Obama, I'd be raising holy hell at Eric Holder right now.

Let's repeat that: a man was investigated for making a YouTube video that offended someone. No, it's not hate speech. If that's the case, let's see Bill Maher doing a perp walk for offending thousands of Christians with his theatrically-released hatefest against Christians. He won't be, because Christians don't burn down embassies and kill ambassadors. Oh, and because we've arrested this moron, what message does that send these rioters? "Keep doing it. The Americans will knuckle under."

Radical Islam just demanded Obama's lunch money. And he's giving it to them.

What Romney was criticizing was this: Egyptian Islamists broke into an American embassy, hauled down the American flag, and ran up an al-Qaeda banner. The State Department's reponse: "We're sorry we offended you!" Romney pounced, as Obama would've if McCain was currently President--because it was a stupid thing to say. And in the end, Obama ended up agreeing with Romney: State said something completely stupid, and shouldn't have. And BTW, Obama was right to agree with Romney on that score, just about 48 hours late in doing so.

But then Obama needed to head off to Las Vegas for some fundraising (with notable 99%, poor folk Beyonce and Jay-Z) while our embassies burn. Not good timing for a fundraiser, but I'm sure it wasn't something he couldn't cancel or send the Vice-President to.

I think what progressives (and the media, but I repeat myself) are mad about is that Romney won't just shut up and let Obama win the election unopposed, and will *gasp* actually use political tactics to try and win. I thought it was pretty crappy for Obama's political machine to accuse Romney of murdering someone, and for Harry Reid to accuse Romney of tax evasion--but I forgot. Nasty politics are okay when the target's a Republican.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

This post has been edited by sentinel28a: 16 September 2012 - 12:16 AM

[Dark Stranger]

Let's also not forget that Obama has not gotten rid of the NDAA. A law that blantenly goes agaisnt our constitution and our freedoms.
Also on a side note. If everyone who didn't vote last year voted for a libertarian candidate, He would win by the biggist landside in history.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 16 September 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Let's also not forget that Obama has not gotten rid of the NDAA. A law that blantenly goes agaisnt our constitution and our freedoms.
Also on a side note. If everyone who didn't vote last year voted for a libertarian candidate, He would win by the biggist landside in history.

Huh this post confused me. Who would of won last year?

I'm mostly lurking the thread and reading the consers put down Obama and the Dems put down Romney so I'm doing this:



I mean both of them suck in general and we know Sent would do better than both of them in this case so it's hilarious to put down one to prep up the other like they are the less than great evils.

Yeah....right.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 16 September 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Huh this post confused me. Who would of won last year?

I'm mostly lurking the thread and reading the consers put down Obama and the Dems put down Romney so I'm doing this:



I mean both of them suck in general and we know Sent would do better than both of them in this case so it's hilarious to put down one to prep up the other like they are the less than great evils.

Yeah....right.

In '08 80 million Americans who could vote did not. If those same people voted for a seperate candidate then the other two he would beat them in the biggist landslide in history.

[sentinel28a]

The Fujoshi, on 16 September 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

I mean both of them suck in general and we know Sent would do better than both of them in this case so it's hilarious to put down one to prep up the other like they are the less than great evils.

Yeah....right.

Frightfully awesome for you to say that, Fujoshi.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Read the above in Vincent Price's voice"

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 16 September 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

In '08 80 million Americans who could vote did not. If those same people voted for a seperate candidate then the other two he would beat them in the biggist landslide in history.

I talked to some people about this election (online and in real life,) and people don't vote not because they don't want to or or a lack of knowledge, but due to being lazy.

"Why should I vote when it doesn't matter? I don't want to get involved into a debate, etc."

Extreme self preservation.

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 17 September 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

"Why should I vote when it doesn't matter? I don't want to get involved into a debate, etc."

Yet they have no issue complaining about something they didn't want to get involved in. I find such to be pretty typical.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 17 September 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

I talked to some people about this election (online and in real life,) and people don't vote not because they don't want to or or a lack of knowledge, but due to being lazy.

"Why should I vote when it doesn't matter? I don't want to get involved into a debate, etc."

Extreme self preservation.

Those type of people piss me off.

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 17 September 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Yet they have no issue complaining about something they didn't want to get involved in. I find such to be pretty typical.

A lot of people don't want to man up in terms of problems and rather make excuses, blame game, or not do anything at all. I'm a person of action. If I want to solve a problem I have to do something about it. Saying "Oh I'm not involved, I have no reason to get involve, what's the point when it makes no difference, or everyone is their own person." You have no right to complain if you sit around and do nothing about said situation or pass the buck to someone who DOES want to do something and it's not in your favor/mindset.

Humans can't be individuals outside of thought and experience, and even then we can relate because we are humans. We are dependent on each other because we are humans. So if something goes down in this or any country it's not one person's fault, it's everyone involved with it and who didn't prevent said person from going to such extreme in the first place.

Also this

http://news.yahoo.co...--election.html

Sorry it's yahoo; my internet is acting like Willie wonka's factory on STD so I couldn't find a better source. Doesn't this seem familiar?

[sentinel28a]

In some countries people literally give their lives to vote, or just have the chance to.

I think that's another thing we can agree on: if you can vote, do so. It's better than the alternative.

Ben Da Mad Irishman