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Romney or Obama 2012!

#1 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:19 PM

A few days ago, I saw a Commercial on T.V. here in IL that quoted "you probably pay more in taxes than Mitt Romney." That Romney made $20,000,000 (twenty million dollars) in 2011 and only paid a horribly small 17%. Well, I don’t know about you guys… but… I did not pay $3,400,000 (three million four hundred thousand) in taxes in 2011. Sorry Obama. Mitt Romney’s 17% is much… much more than my ~30%.

Why do some of you disdain Mitt Romney or why do some of you disdain Obama? Main focus = relations that effect every single citizen in the United States (not just a group of citizens).
(It may be best to watch Mitt Romney's RNC speech even if you feel that you disdain him. Why? Because we all have Seen Obama's, along with his acceptance speech and many more).

I feel that internet forums are in fact the best place to discuss politics. Here, most of us are relatively anonymous; we don’t need to fear saying how we truly feel about political issues… what we truly support. There is no fear that those around us will look down upon for disagreeing with their political philosophy. So let’s have some friendly fun! I'll post my views in the future!

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#2 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:45 PM

The only thing uglier than anime topics on the internet is political.

I'm voting for Romney, though. Obama's had four years to get it right, and he hasn't, so it's the heave-ho as far as I'm concerned. That's the great thing about our political system: if you don't like how someone performs, send 'em packing in a few years.

I didn't follow Clint Eastwood's speech at the RNC last night, but there was one thing he did say that I think we can all agree with, liberal or conservative: government officials are our employees. Not the other way around. Both parties need to remember that, because there's plenty of dead wood in both to get rid of.

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#3 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:50 AM

+1 for Romney.

Edit: Here's issue that I hope that whoever controls Washington tackles. The NCAA and it's wildly inconsistent rulings. Little DII CalTech gets hammered for a system where students can "shop" for classes, but North Carolina will get away with having fake classes that keep athletes eligible. Time to lose that tax exemption!

I doubt it will happen, though.

This post has been edited by kahad: 01 September 2012 - 04:43 AM

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#4 User is offline   Valkyrie 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:22 AM

Okay. Here's my take.

One - does anyone remember how long it took for the Great Depression to finally say "adios" and let the nation recover? Long enough for us to go through two or three presidents. Now, remember this. Obama came in RIGHT as the recession was rearing its ugly head. There is no way he could have corrected that inside of four years. Granted, it wasn't for lack of trying, but unfortunately, it's not gonna happen. Plus, it's not like Obama can snap his fingers and make it go away. There's a reason checks and balances exist - just because Obama says improvement is needed in a certain sector, doesn't mean legislators are going to listen to him. And quite frankly, I've seen PLENTY of fine examples of horrible senators and representatives over the past few years to make me feel ill. (In short, it's not entirely Obama's fault.)

Two - My biggest concerns for the next few years aren't about the economy. They're not about immigration. They're about women's and gay rights. I'm a supporter for both. Gay marriage is not going to hurt anything about marriage as a whole except the opponents' own excessive pride. Who knows, it may even give a boost to the economy. And despite what most of the government thinks, women (especially those in my age bracket) don't need the government to regulate our bodies. We don't need - and certainly shouldn't want - them to make declarations like "women are now pregnant 2 weeks before conception" or that we can just make our bodies reject anything from a rape (to say nothing of how some legislators are trying to downplay rape itself). Or that we should be forced to watch ultrasounds on our own dime if we need an abortion.

Given those concerns, I challenge Romney supporters to tell me how exactly he's going to alleviate them. Go.

This post has been edited by Valkyrie: 01 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

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#5 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:22 AM

View PostValkyrie, on 01 September 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Okay. Here's my take.

One - does anyone remember how long it took for the Great Depression to finally say "adios" and let the nation recover? Long enough for us to go through two or three presidents. Now, remember this. Obama came in RIGHT as the recession was rearing its ugly head. There is no way he could have corrected that inside of four years. Granted, it wasn't for lack of trying, but unfortunately, it's not gonna happen. Plus, it's not like Obama can snap his fingers and make it go away. There's a reason checks and balances exist - just because Obama says improvement is needed in a certain sector, doesn't mean legislators are going to listen to him. And quite frankly, I've seen PLENTY of fine examples of horrible senators and representatives over the past few years to make me feel ill. (In short, it's not entirely Obama's fault.)

Two - My biggest concerns for the next few years aren't about the economy. They're not about immigration. They're about women's and gay rights. I'm a supporter for both. Gay marriage is not going to hurt anything about marriage as a whole except the opponents' own excessive pride. Who knows, it may even give a boost to the economy. And despite what most of the government thinks, women (especially those in my age bracket) don't need the government to regulate our bodies. We don't need - and certainly shouldn't want - them to make declarations like "women are now pregnant 2 weeks before conception" or that we can just make our bodies reject anything from a rape (to say nothing of how some legislators are trying to downplay rape itself). Or that we should be forced to watch ultrasounds on our own dime if we need an abortion.

Given those concerns, I challenge Romney supporters to tell me how exactly he's going to alleviate them. Go.


This^ Seriously what can you do about Bush, who ran for two turns, or Clinton if you want to be technical, for that matter in four years? One person can't do it in four years

Also this has me concerned (which I found from tumblr):

http://thinkprogress...modern-history/

Now that's just WRONG even if it was a really good troll. Seriously look at that. Look at that post.

I'm voting Obama because of two reasons:

1) I support gay rights because I'm ftm and I don't think you should put down anyone because of their interest or what they like. It's "MY KINK/LIKES IS NOT YOUR KINK/LIKES HOW DARE YOU." If a person likes to screw animals as long as it's not hurting the animals who cares? If someone likes toys and 2D over 3D women who cares as long as he's not making babies? When you hurt something then things get serious. Sleeping with babies is bad yeah but condemning everyone because in your mind it isn't right or because you don't do it is wrong. What if I decided that "having sex period, even in marriage was bad?" just because I thought so and oh I found a passage from whatever stating my facts and did I mention how I thought so?

If someone wants butt sex let them have butt sex as long as they don't have butt sex to you in force!

2) I always had the issue with conservatives supporting 'no abortions,' in terms of rape/incest, which is not only wrong, but it hits personal grounds in my family and that's why I think that the post is not far from home because I heard conservatives stress this out when they wanted to run for offices, in secret not to the public's face.

3)Bush was during a really bad time period so people were not obvious to many things; the country suffered, we were attacked, etc. Now that the cooling off period is over and we have a new president after two turns WE now pay attention to the critical points. If we gave Bush two chances then we might as well give Obama two.

4) This country is a melting pot; original founders were not even from this country. They were slaves from France, Africa, and similar to the hispanic people, people who fled from the British to start a new life. The only original people here were the Native Americans. Saying, "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS," is an excuse for being lazy since you can't say that "Americans," took your jobs since you are an "American." And people like to blame stuff over their downfalls. If you want to work for below wage, hard work, then go right ahead and do that, or stop complaining and just try harder.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 01 September 2012 - 10:31 AM

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#6 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 01:09 PM

In actuality, the Great Depression ran from 1929 to 1942. We had two Presidents: Herbert Hoover (a one termer) and Franklin Roosevelt (who served four terms). Hoover was voted out in 1933. FDR instituted the New Deal...which only sort of worked. Roosevelt's idea for putting the country immediately back to work with massive federal spending did work, at first, but not in the long run. A recovery by 1936 got FDR a second term, followed by another economic slowdown in 1938. Had it not been for the threat of WWII, it's unlikely Frank would've gotten a third term. The New Deal was not working long term.

What ended the Great Depression was not federal spending, nor was it any action of Roosevelt's. It was the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor and sucking the US into WWII. That put everyone to work, certainly, but it's not something I don't think we want to repeat, and it probably wasn't FDR's first choice.

The Depression was the result of several things going wrong at once: farms failed, passing on toxic debt to banks, which then failed, which overwhelmed the states and the government's ability to handle it. All of that, however, would've just resulted in a bad recession. What shoved the recession into the Depression was government attempts to eff with it. Hoover and Congress kept trying to fool around (such as with the Smoot-Hawley Tariff) instead of letting the economy recover, and made things worse. The American people...voted him out. Had Hoover just left things alone, the economy would've stabilized and recovered.

Side note: the original Founders were born here. (Alexander Hamilton was from St. Kitts, but he was the exception.) America is such a melting pot that ethnicity should no longer be an issue. We're all Americans, no hyphen needed. Somehow millions of Americans made their way here and took their chances at Ellis Island with everyone else. I'm all for equal rights--I am vehemently against special rights. No one should get special rights because of the color of their skin, their genitalia, their sexual preference, or where they came from. That's not what Martin Luther King Jr. wanted, and I agree with him.

Okay, history lesson over. No, the recession is not Obama's fault, nor is it Bush's. It's both parties', and the American people's, for trying to buy houses they couldn't afford, and a natural economic slowdown that happens all the time. Where Obama has screwed up is that he can't quit futzing with the economy. GM should've never been bailed out--and look, they'll probably need another one, as the Volt is a failure. Green energy programs have been failures. Domestic oil and natural gas have lots of potential (look at North Dakota and how well it's doing)--but because Obama wants to appeal the radical environmentalists for some reason, he's restricting that. Gas prices go up, which causes food prices to rise.

Obamacare is now a tax (as the Supreme Court has ruled), which means taxes will rise like Bane beginning next year, and Obamacare doesn't solve the problem it was meant to to begin with. Small businesses realize that they are in a hostile environment and won't hire. Because of the new contraception rules mandate, Catholic hospitals will be forced to cut back or close--and if you think that ruling will only affect those backward Catholics, be aware that Islam also does not support contraception, as do several other religious sects.

Combination of all that? Obama's actions are kneecapping the economy. And before you blame that on Republican obstructionism, realize the Republicans only control the House. The Senate, controlled by the Democrats, has not passed a budget in two years, and even it thought Obama's budget was so ludicrous that it rejected it unanimously. Yes, including the 52 or so Democrats.

Look, gay marriage is a smokescreen. A good plurality of conservatives support it. (I support it.) Contraception controversies and abortion are also Obama shouting "Squirrel!" Romney couldn't repeal abortion; there's not enough support in Congress. And as cheap and easy to obtain as contraception is--what, you can't haul down the freak flag long enough to slap on a condom?--abortion shouldn't even be an issue. (Granted, fools like Akin don't help the conversation. You may notice that the people screaming for him to retire were conservatives as well as liberals. We don't want to be associated with the dumbbutt.)

And yes, you can get contraception very easily in this nation; I don't know what Sandra Fluke's problem was. (I disagree with Rush Limbaugh calling Fluke a promiscuous woman, but come on, lady. When I was in college, there were free condoms at the clinic 24-7, and in vending machines. You need taxpayer help to afford a 60-cent condom? Or are men too damn dumb to put one on at Georgetown?)

No. Those issues are important, but here's the big issue: the economy. We're headed for a double-dip recession according to the CBO. Obama and the Democrats refuse to do anything about the deficit except raise taxes on the rich--but even if we confiscated 100% of the rich's money, we'd still be $15 trillion in the hole. We could cut defense 100% and we'd still be $14 trillion in the hole. What's driving that? Entitlements. Social Security. Medicare. New Deal programs that were never meant to be permanent and Great Society programs that ballooned out of control. Entitlement spending is not something Obama wants to touch. He's afraid that if he does, he won't get reelected. If he gets a second term, he may not have a choice.

The Boomer spending party is over, and our generations will be forced to foot the bill. Romney at least acknowledges that; Ryan has come up with a plan to rein in spending. It's not perfect, but it's a start.

Right now, all I hear from Obama's camp is attacks on the Republicans as being at war with women, on Romney for being rich (when did that become a crime?), on Ryan for wanting to kill grandma, and so on. Scare tactics, and sound politics. What I'm not hearing is a plan to get us out of the problems we face. I hear criticisms of Romney's plan, but nothing about Obama's plan. Raising taxes on the rich and gutting the military is not going to solve the problem--especially with the threats we face abroad. Obama needs a broad-based approach to reducing the deficit and cutting back entitlements...and I'm not hearing one. (And no, it's not because I watch Fox News. I can't. I don't own a TV.)

And in case you don't think running deficits is a bad idea--look at Greece. Look at Portugal. That's where we are heading, turned up to eleven. If you think 8-9% unemployment is bad, wait until you see 22%.

I'm voting for Romney because he has a plan. Obama has rhetoric. Believe me, I wanted the guy to succeed (you can go back and read my post-2008 election posts in the archives), but he hasn't. So I'm voting him out. If Romney becomes Prez and screws up, I'll vote his butt out too. I do not belong to a political party. I'm just tired of seeing my country suffer unnecessarily, and I'm tired of being thought dumb enough to fall for bells and whistles when fiscal armageddon is coming at us like a berserk Eva.

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#7 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:44 PM

Political topic....

*sighs*

It's going to get ugly.

Anywho, I'm not going to get going into all my views. I don't classify myself as either. Tho to be honest, I have a disdain for a lot of conservative policies. I'll just leave it at that.

Also Valkyrie. I'm going to be blunt. I stay out of the whole gay rights thing. (I find both sides to be either idiotic and childish at times. Tho I'm definitely not against gay rights at all) And the "war on women" (I wouldn't call it women's rights when it's only dealing with one issue really. If it was voting and other stuff, then I'd say it's assaulting their rights.) is still ongoing and it isn't hitting rock bottom at the moment. The economy is MUCH more important. MUCH. It affects everyone. Men and Women, straight or gay...everyone. Yeah it's important to solve issues like that, however you can't be serious in saying economy isn't the biggest issue here. Fixing social security a huge problem. Putting small bandages on deep cuts doesn't help the cut. That is what is happening with Social Security now.
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#8 User is offline   Kyuu 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:37 PM

View Postsentinel28a, on 31 August 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'm voting for Romney, though. Obama's had four years to get it right, and he hasn't, so it's the heave-ho as far as I'm concerned. That's the great thing about our political system: if you don't like how someone performs, send 'em packing in a few years.


This is exactly what the Republicans want you to think.

I'm blaming the Republican Do-Nothing Congress for that stuff, who happens to have a 12% approval rating. It's easy to pin the blame on the President, because he's one person. But keep in mind the 3-branch system we have in this country. A President can make all sorts of wonderful proposals like a bill to stimulate job growth or a separate bank for infrastructure projects. However, none of these mean a darned thing, if Congress is unwilling to pass these kinds of programs.

And I'm going to vote Obama, under the prospect of Romney being George W Bush all over again. If you're not aware, Romney is already salivating over a new war against Iran.

View Postsentinel28a, on 31 August 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I didn't follow Clint Eastwood's speech at the RNC last night, but there was one thing he did say that I think we can all agree with, liberal or conservative: government officials are our employees. Not the other way around. Both parties need to remember that, because there's plenty of dead wood in both to get rid of.


So, here's a solution to the Two-Party problem.

Pick 4-5 topics most important to you. Anything else is subject to be ignored for later, or left up to compromise.

This post has been edited by Kyuu: 01 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

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#9 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

I am absolutely gobsmacked at what I read in your post, Fujoshi. Please tell me your comment about bestiality was in jest.

I was thinking about casually posting about my choice for November(not that it even matters in IL we're a very blue state thanks to the densely populated Crook County), but after reading just a few posts I realize this isn't going to end well.
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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

Quote

And yes, you can get contraception very easily in this nation; I don't know what Sandra Fluke's problem was. (I disagree with Rush Limbaugh calling Fluke a promiscuous woman, but come on, lady. When I was in college, there were free condoms at the clinic 24-7, and in vending machines. You need taxpayer help to afford a 60-cent condom? Or are men too damn dumb to put one on at Georgetown?)


The problem wasn't getting men in college to put on condoms before you do the dirty deed. She was talking about using birth control as a hormonal treatment, preventing ovarian cysts and other issue with reproduction. Condoms won't help you with endometriosis or PCOS. Birth control can be expensive if you are not covered.

Now onto which candidate I voting for? I'm not sure just yet, both parties are not my ideal. I'm just doing my research and planning on watching debates and such.

#11 User is offline   Kyuu 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:18 PM

View Postsentinel28a, on 01 September 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

What ended the Great Depression was not federal spending, nor was it any action of Roosevelt's. It was the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor and sucking the US into WWII. That put everyone to work, certainly, but it's not something I don't think we want to repeat, and it probably wasn't FDR's first choice.


In addition, the tax rate for the richest 1% of Americans was set at a whopping 90% to pay for the war. And if you ask me, the tax rates for the rich need to go up, in the event of a war. This will make this country think twice about going into war. Sometimes it is necessary; but both Iraq and Afganistan were not. Since taxes for the rich have been driven down, the rest of us are left with the bill for those wars. Now, Romney is looking to pit us against Iran?
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#12 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostJujuFox, on 01 September 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

I am absolutely gobsmacked at what I read in your post, Fujoshi. Please tell me your comment about bestiality was in jest.

I was thinking about casually posting about my choice for November(not that it even matters in IL we're a very blue state thanks to the densely populated Crook County), but after reading just a few posts I realize this isn't going to end well.


I don't enjoy it or support it, but for god's sake I can't say "YOU ARE A NASTY SOB FOR LIKING SLEEPING WITH ANIMALS." and troll them forever until they see the light. I mean there are sites, forums, that have dogs and you be surprised on what you see on FB.....-shakes head and shivers-

It's just...wrong wrong wrong. My point was that I can't be a hypocrite; it's their life. Sure I'm going to report them if I find out but I have no right to tell them what they can and cannot do, especially online, over and over again with my proverbial hammer. Heck me having a body pillow of HAYATO, (yes that is his name,) is considered bad as well. I also can't say "YOU ARE A STUPID HEAD FOR VOTING FOR X PERSON." Being indifferent is the only way I discovered to cope with people, especially stupid and/or 'wrong,' people, until a trip to Mars or Gunsmoke comes along.

And Juju I agree; our state sucks eggs!

I don't really support either side either Xeno but the problem is that you can either:

Vote or not vote and just deal with the people who do vote in your place.

So yeah. Although if you don't vote you shouldn't complain if you get 'suck' later. I didn't vote and bah I got 'suck.' Since I'm pro-choice I always vote the blue instead of the red.

I don't agree with you at all sentinel. Condoms do not prevent incest and you still need parent's consent if you are under age in abortions, especially in cases of rape and it only takes one time to have sex to make a baby. I could give a lot of examples that show that condoms/birth control are not worth squat if you don't have the money or age or even know how to put it on right (because a lot of young people can't use condoms at all. Why? because they don't teach that here in the poorer areas. Heck in my high school NOBODY knew how to use a condom, even after the video we seen.) Also I can give example for 1) statement as well. It happened in my family; she couldn't get an abortion, even though it was rape because:

1)Underage
2)no money
3)minority

That's the main reason why I support abortion rights. I don't want anyone to suffer that again. -Sighs-

The economy is a big issue but it's not going to be solved under night. Restricting gay rights as well as immigrants is going to hurt the economy. Laws could be made that, "Well since you are gay, even if it's against the constitution, you can't work here, same goes for you Mexican." Or heck deport anyone; at one point the USA considered deporting black people. The government is trying to control everyone by restricting everything, deporting anyone who isn't American in their eyes, and heck making laws that support the higher middle class and rich. We have to focus more on the lower class and the middle class who make up a large part of this country.

Instead of harping here, complain to our Congressman or your state mayor. That's what I do here even though it doesn't really work.

Our founding fathers were born here yes, but it doesn't mean their fathers and their fathers were born here. So yeah America was 'found,' by immigrants and now in 2012 we are going a heel face turn and saying, and I quote, "Why should I learn Spanish anyway? This is America! That is the problem with this country now."

Also what about that post! -Hides- That scared me! The fact that it was posted showed something!
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#13 User is offline   -JUNK- 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:57 PM

Not going to argue with anyone but I believe Im voting for Obama.
I dislike Romney .
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#14 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostKyuu, on 01 September 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'm blaming the Republican Do-Nothing Congress for that stuff, who happens to have a 12% approval rating. It's easy to pin the blame on the President, because he's one person. But keep in mind the 3-branch system we have in this country. A President can make all sorts of wonderful proposals like a bill to stimulate job growth or a separate bank for infrastructure projects. However, none of these mean a darned thing, if Congress is unwilling to pass these kinds of programs.

Democrats control the Senate, not the Republicans.
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#15 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:02 PM

View Postkahad, on 01 September 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Democrats control the Senate, not the Republicans.


Kahad im quite sure you know what kyuu meant. Lol

The house of reps.
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#16 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:03 PM

Did anyone notice that after Mine showed up there was a lot of weird topics?

Are you sure you're in college and around 20 something?
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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:04 AM

Who started the last conflict the United States military fought in? If you said "Barack Obama," come on down!

There's also the fact that Obama went after Libya--without Congressional approval, I might add. And although he should've consulted Congress (the Republicans would've gone along with it), Obama was right in going after Qaddafi. Libya may still end up being a radical Islamist cesspool, but it was worth a shot. I may disagree with Obama in many areas, but that action was not one of them. He did the right thing. I'd prefer we not get involved with Syria, but if Obama chose to do that, I would support him in doing so.

Remember too that Obama has said, and I quote, that America "has Israel's back" in a war with Iran. So apparently Obama's not afraid to put the hammer down on Ahmadinejad if it becomes necessary. Note finally that Obama's foreign policy in regards to the Middle East is to keep doing exactly what George W. Bush did. Drone strikes (which have been ramped up), hunt down bin Laden (mission successful), surge troops into Afghanistan (we'll see about that one, but I support it), and continue going after al-Qaeda. Obama's justifiably proud of that, but all he did was continue and in some cases increase the work that Dubya did.

Iran is the one going crazy developing nuclear weapons, which will have exactly two targets: Israel and the United States. Iranian missiles can't hit the US, but how hard would it be to stick one on a containership and sail into New York? I would hope that either Obama or Romney would not be afraid to preemptively strike Iran rather than let those lunatics go nuclear. I know Romney wouldn't, and in Obama's defense--while he might need to be prodded into it--he'd do the same.

So if you're worried about Romney being another Bush--don't sweat it. Obama, foreign policy wise, already is.

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#18 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:31 AM

Hey, folks--before we go any further with "he said, she said" politics, let's consider this: are we here to yell at each other that Romney/Obama is right and Romney/Obama is wrong? Or are we here to try and convince each other that we should vote for the other guy? Because both are kind of pointless.

I mean this: Fujoshi can pull facts off of Google and so can I. I think Fujoshi and I are good enough people that we won't let it get personal (so far Fujoshi hasn't gotten personal at all, and I'll try not to), but sooner or later it will become a screaming match. A friendly and fun screaming match, but a lot of noise and light that produce ultimately nothing. (Kind of like the rave, but with less property damage.)

I sincerely doubt that I'm going to convince Fujoshi to vote for Romney, or anyone else. (Nor am I trying to. If someone pulls the lever for Romney "because Sentinel told me to," man--you need to get out more.) Fujoshi is not going to convince me to vote for Obama. We're just counting down the days until we choose our guy; our minds are already made up. If you're one of the undecided, then there's plenty of news sources and websites out there to help you make your minds up. The ACen boards shouldn't be that place. I'm certainly not being paid by anyone to get out the vote for Romney. I just agree with him 80% of the time, and agree with Obama about 20% of the time, so...do the math.

I'm up for a good political debate, but of the people that's posted, I think we already know who we're voting for. We can keep this going, but we should keep it in mind that we're either preaching to the choir or the other side's not terribly interested to begin with.

Oh, and one last thing: if Romney loses, I am not dressing in drag at ACen this year. Nope. Never again.

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This post has been edited by sentinel28a: 02 September 2012 - 12:34 AM

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#19 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:36 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 01 September 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Kahad im quite sure you know what kyuu meant. Lol

The house of reps.

I was not quite sure since the term congress tends to refer to both the Senate and the House. Also, the Republicans have only controlled the House for the past two years. Hard to blame the Republicans for Obama's first two years when the Democrats had filibuster-proof majority in both the House and the Senate for the majority of the time. They had a filibuster-proof majority in the house the entire time, and one in the Senate for about a year (Specter flipped parties in February once he realized he would badly lose Pennsylvania's Republican primary. I think Brown won the open Massachusetts a year later.)
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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

I am voting for Romney.

Why? Because I choose to put forth the wellbeing and future of the ‘entire’ nation before ‘select groups’ (a number of individuals lesser than that of the entire population) of individuals. I do not agree with Mitt on many topics… however, Mitt Romney has the experiences, the qualifications to make a difference in this nation’s future. There are so many stingy people (yes that’s right… stingy) people in this country… and it’s not nearly just about ‘money…’ people put forth their ‘feelings’ and beliefs in topics that only directly effect a ‘select group’ before an issue that directly affects that of the entire nation.

I do not intent so sound as if I am saying that some topics are not as important as others… however, I am claiming that some topics directly affect us all compared to others that directly affect a ‘select group.’

I am more worried about an incomprehensive national debt surging over the rim than I am worried about the president being a Mormon…
I am more worried about the nations credit score downgrading than I am about individuals rights to have an abortion.
I am more worried about the future of the United States Economy than I am about the rights of homosexuals.

We can all agree that change happens overtime… and we all ‘know’ that many of today’s hot issue that for ‘select groups’ will be granted; however, we cannot simply force everyone to accept them instantaneously… it takes time.

I choose to place the future of my nation in the hands of a successful businessperson.

#21 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:53 AM

View Postsentinel28a, on 02 September 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

A friendly and fun screaming match, but a lot of noise and light that produce ultimately nothing. (Kind of like the rave, but with less property damage.)


That's why I'm here; I'm wondering is everyone going to act like adults or go into screaming matches....like that ONE thread -Hands sentinel popcorn-

I don't care personally who you vote for or who Mine does or fox or whoever. I support you either way. That's the problem with hot topics like Religion/abortion/sex/politics; people think that their might is the right way due to the 'individualism,' and how 'only my opinion or a lot of opinion matters that agrees with my opinion and everything else can go to hell.'

Or maybe it's the tribe mentality from back in the stone age area.

Although the problem I do have is that some people in this thread think that a few "individuals," do not make up a "nation." So if Obama wins because of homosexuals they are not part of the nation then...or if Romney wins because of Hispanics then...I guess they are not part of the "nation as a whole."

And I already expressed why abortion is a hot topic for me and since I do still have a womb even though I bind....I'm kind of scared about the options behind that, especially if I get assaulted.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 02 September 2012 - 09:53 AM

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

And to be absolutely fair - with a nod to Sent - the economy is indeed really important. Those issues I rattled off earlier are just the ones that concern me more (not by much, though).

And worry not, I know the Depression only involved two presidents. Bad wording on my part there, whoops.
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#23 User is offline   Kyuu 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:56 AM

View Postkahad, on 01 September 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Democrats control the Senate, not the Republicans.


One-word: Filibuster.

A simple majority in the Senate is not enough to block it. Get bills up into the Senate; filibuster it to death. A super majority is needed for bills to be filibuster-proof. Because of the filibuster, it's actually McConnell, who had control. For this reason, the Senate is actually ridiculous, where a simple majority can't even get things passed.

===

Also. Politics is proof that people have short-memories and attention spans. But I'll quote a response from this article:
http://www.huffingto..._181763751.html

Quote is in response to Chris Wallace's comment:
"It seems to me, for Republicans, it's not that he's failed to lead, it's that he's led in the wrong direction."

Quote

Let's see. When Bush left, GDP was at -9%, and was negative for 5 consecutive quarters, while becoming more negative each and every quarter. That, as far as I know, is a downward spiral, and the worst we've had in more than half a century.

We were also losing 800,000 jobs the month Bush left, and each month 100,000 more than the previous month. Another downward spiral.

What happened then? Instead of proposing big ideological experiments, Obama proposed emergency measures that were at the same time bold AND a 100% pragmatic: according to the non partisan CBO, his stimulus would first stabilize the situation, and then turn it completely around, producing a steadily positive GDP and normal, pre-recession levels of monthly job creation (= an average of 150,000 new private sector jobs a month), all in less than a year after its implementation.

And that's EXACTLY what happened.

By the end of 2009, GDP was at +6%. It has been positive since then. And since the beginning of 2010 we have an average of 150,000 new private sector jobs a month, instead of losing 800,000 jobs a month.

Since then, the economy added 4.5 million new private sector jobs.

The GOP nevertheless strongly opposed these measures, for merely ideological reasons.

Today, they even claim that Obama "failed" when it comes to the economy - whereas we all know that it's the GOP who since 2010 blocked the most important follow-up bills.

And now Chris Wallace claims that Obama took us in the "wrong direction". So WHAT is it exactly that he wanted? That we continued the downward spiral Bush left us with ... ?

To me, one thing is clear: when it comes to jobs and the economy, the GOP really doesn't have a clue.


This is what happened, folks. As the comment says, ideology trumps everything else, including economic growth. To think, Republicans in Congress are willing to tank our economy, just to pin the result on Obama. This is outright insanity.

This post has been edited by Kyuu: 02 September 2012 - 11:01 AM

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#24 User is offline   Evil_Nerd 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

Interestingly enough find myself less concerned with who will end up president, I am more worried about Congress itself. The president can only do so much, as he is only one branch of our government. Congress seems to bicker a lot, especially when it comes to important votes and then you have the Democrats vs Republicans battle royale.

Although I find it slightly weird that the media is playing this out to be a battle of which candidate will win the women's vote.


Looking at both parties for me is like looking at looking at 2 mud pits, trying to figure which one to cross and one of them has a sinkhole.

#25 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostKyuu, on 02 September 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

One-word: Filibuster.

A simple majority in the Senate is not enough to block it. Get bills up into the Senate; filibuster it to death. A super majority is needed for bills to be filibuster-proof. Because of the filibuster, it's actually McConnell, who had control. For this reason, the Senate is actually ridiculous, where a simple majority can't even get things passed.

I think you missed the part where I said that Democrats had filibuster-proof majorities in both the House and Senate the first two years.

Edit: Also, it sounds like you expect the Republicans to play dead for Obama. The Democrats didn't play dead for Bush.

This post has been edited by kahad: 02 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

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#26 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:21 PM

View Postkahad, on 02 September 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I think you missed the part where I said that Democrats had filibuster-proof majorities in both the House and Senate the first two years.

Edit: Also, it sounds like you expect the Republicans to play dead for Obama. The Democrats didn't play dead for Bush.


The filibuster has been around since the 19th Century, and the Romans had a version of it. Both parties have used it. The Democrats used it last back in 2005 in an attempt to block judicial appointments by Bush.

If Romney gets elected and the Democrats retain control of the Senate (which is a strong possibility--right now the parties are tied in polls over control of the Senate), you can bet they'll filibuster the hell out of him.

Both parties will always obstruct each other any way they can. The Democrats stymied abolition of slavery for two decades in the 1840-1850s before the Civil War settled the issue. Way back in Jefferson's time, the Federalists tried to block the Louisiana Purchase. That's American politics. Heck, that's British politics, too. Ever watch Prime Minister's Questions on C-SPAN on Sundays? That's more fun than the Daily Show.

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:19 PM

Every election basically comes down to the lesser of two evils it seems. Am I super satisfied with what Obama has accomplished these last 4 years, no, but Romeny scares me. I could go deeper than that, but meh, I'll let the voting decide it. Obama looks like he is in the lead right now, but we'll see on election day.
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#28 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

View Postkahad, on 02 September 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I think you missed the part where I said that Democrats had filibuster-proof majorities in both the House and Senate the first two years.

Edit: Also, it sounds like you expect the Republicans to play dead for Obama. The Democrats didn't play dead for Bush.


I agree.

Also, to Kyuu: the following is part of a large timeline regarding what has been going on in the House and Senate over the past few years. You can be the judge.

April 29, 2009: The last time the Democrat-led Senate adopted a budget resolution. Also the last time the Majority brought a plan to the floor.

May 17, 2011: Despite missing the statutory deadline for a budget to be passed out of the Budget Committee, Chairman Conrad delays the unveiling of his budget for FY 2012, announcing that "I'll say something later -- not today, probably... There are a lot of conversations under way."

April 15: The Republican-controlled House of Representatives passes it's budget for FY 2012, which cut's $6 trillion in comparison to the president's budget.

May 18 Majority Leader Reid says it would be "foolish" for Senate Democrats to offer a budget.

May 19: Chairman Conrad cancels a planned committee make-up, announcing he will not reveal a budget to the public until after such time as the Gang of Six produces a proposal.

May 23: Senitor Schumer, when asked why there is no alternative to his House-Passed budget, answers, "To put other budgets out there is not the point."

May 25: The Senate rejects President Obama's FY 2012 budget by a vote of 0-97.

June 7: Even some Senate Democrats become anxious about their party's lack of a budget.

June 29: Chairman Conrad tells Politico, “Senate Democrats have reached an agreement on a plan — just now — and we’ll be putting that out sometime soon.” (Note: the plan was never made public, but a leaked outline revealed that it contained as many as $2 in tax hikes for $1 in spending cuts.)

November 9: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi claims that Democrats didn’t pass a budget when they controlled both chambers of Congress because “Republicans would have filibustered it,” but as she should know, budget resolutions can’t be filibustered.

January 24, 2012: President Obama delivers a State of the Union address that falls on the 1,000th day since Senate Democrats offered a budget plan. Although the president focuses much of his criticism on “the way Congress does its business these days,” he neglects to mention Senate Democrats’ budget failures.

February 3: Days after Chairman Conrad promised to hold a budget mark-up in committee, Majority Leader Reid declares that the Senate would not consider a budget for the third straight year.

February 12: Current White House chief of staff (and former OMB director) Jack Lew falsely claims that budget resolutions require 60 votes to pass the Senate.

March 14: Every Republican on the Budget Committee reminds Chairman Conrad that the Congressional Budget Act deadline for passing a budget out of committee is April 1.

March 29: The Republican-led House passes a budget for FY 2013.

April 17: Chairman Conrad cancels the scheduled Budget Committee mark-up for the second year in a row, a move that the New York Times reported “surprised Republicans and Democrats, who were expecting him to produce a Democratic budget that, if passed by the committee, would have been the first detailed deficit reduction plan in three years.”

April 29: Three years pass since Senate Democrats adopted a budget.

May 10: Treasury Department figures show that the nation has spent $10.6 trillion since the Senate’s Democrat majority last passed a budget.

I don't think I need to include anymore... it's quite obvious which party demonstrates a higher level of competence and forward progression.

#29 User is offline   Valkyrie 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

To be fair, though, neither party is omnipotent. The Republicans have had their fair share of bad decisions too. I recall one instance where they shot down a bill that would have granted much-needed healthcare to 9/11 cleanup workers because they didn't want the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. Once Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert caught wind of that, the Republicans wound up getting eaten alive by pretty much every media outlet as a result. Only after that did they turn around and say "Okay, okay, we approve it."

Note that not all members of every party are bad. There are some from each who are totally awesome. But there are plenty in each who really shouldn't be handling money, let alone in a government chair.
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#30 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

View PostValkyrie, on 02 September 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

the Republicans wound up getting eaten alive by pretty much every media outlet as a result.


When don't the Republicans get "eaten alive by pretty much every media outlet." :D

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