[MagnusBlue]

Just wanted to stop in and let all of you know that we have finished negotiating the hotel room blocks for ACen 2013. We will open the first phase of room blocks on September 1st. Please stay tuned to the ACen.org and the ACen Forums for more information.


See you all in May for the Sweet 16!

This post has been edited by MagnusBlue: 12 August 2012 - 08:10 PM

[JujuFox]

This is probably a dumb question, but I honestly can't remember... I know we booked our room with the ACen discount, but I'm not sure if that was for the hotel block?

Hotel blocks are for areas of the hotel reserved for ACen attendees only, or are they the discounted rates that we can get when we book rooms? I couldn't find info for either on the site in the FAQs.

[KungPowKirby]

JujuFox, on 12 August 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

This is probably a dumb question, but I honestly can't remember... I know we booked our room with the ACen discount, but I'm not sure if that was for the hotel block?

Hotel blocks are for areas of the hotel reserved for ACen attendees only, or are they the discounted rates that we can get when we book rooms? I couldn't find info for either on the site in the FAQs.

Room blocks mean the group of rooms ACen has reserved that you get a discount with. They are not a physical space per say.

[JujuFox]

Okay thanks! I don't know what I was thinking! 6__9

Looking forward to the announcement. We got a great room last year and had a great time!

[MsLovelyCookie]

WHAT?!

I can't wait to see what the prices will be for 2013, will need to start my hotel funds soon.
Now the only question is should I try a new hotel or stay at the one I was at last year?

[The Fujoshi]

Any idea about which one is going to open up first or is it going to be the Hyatt as usual?

[opimus.rm]

The Fujoshi, on 12 August 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Any idea about which one is going to open up first or is it going to be the Hyatt as usual?

I wonder what the room price increase will be?

[myrla]

as long as i don't get charged, i'll probably sneak and reserve - if I end up cancelling, that means a better chance for someone later on. Still not sure if I'm going to go. That is.. i guess also if the Aloft is included in Hotel Blocks.

This post has been edited by myrla: 16 August 2012 - 09:05 AM

[rondo]

My guess is around $180, looking up to that fearful $200 mark.

Which lower 48 con has the highest hotel prices? I know ACen has to be up there.

[KungPowKirby]

rondo, on 16 August 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

My guess is around $180, looking up to that fearful $200 mark.

Which lower 48 con has the highest hotel prices? I know ACen has to be up there.

*sigh* I hope it wont get up that much, but I know better.... it probably will.

[opimus.rm]

The Hyatt just loves to screw ACen members by jacking the room rates. The anime con in august had a $115 a room rate at the hyatt.

This post has been edited by opimus.rm: 16 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

[magishine]

Considering the amount of damage that seems to occur to the Hyatt year after year can you blame them for raising rates?

[rondo]

magishine, on 16 August 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Considering the amount of damage that seems to occur to the Hyatt year after year can you blame them for raising rates?

Is this any different from the other large cons in the states or does ACen seem to foster an air of shenanigans?

Besides, in checking on the current rate for Thursday night of the 16th in May, I can get the Hyatt for $189. That means current rates are very close to a standard rate which is incredibly disappointing. There is barely a point in advertising a con rate. I'd like to see cons vary between $50-$100 off a standard room rate for the special *con* rate.

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 16 August 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Is this any different from the other large cons in the states or does ACen seem to foster an air of shenanigans?

Besides, in checking on the current rate for Thursday night of the 16th in May, I can get the Hyatt for $189. That means current rates are very close to a standard rate which is incredibly disappointing. There is barely a point in advertising a con rate. I'd like to see cons vary between $50-$100 off a standard room rate for the special *con* rate.

I think ACen seems to foster shenanigans, because I don't hear Anime iowa or Youmacon having hotel rates this high or a lot of general issues in question coming from attendees. From what one person told me, Youmacon was a small convention to them but still fun. :/

But it could be the state in question as well as the area; it's near the airport, within "public" train distance (anime midwest you need a car to reach there I discovered or another method,) and Illinois has one of the highest tax rates in the nation compared to California and New York.

Aloft is usually included in room blocks; it was last year and the year before I believe (*´・ｖ・) And the Embassy doesn't charge until you go to the hotel in question. The Hyatt I'm not sure if they change a few months ahead or not.

Of course since it's going to be near 200 dollars a night I'm going to use hotel points out the wazoo. I find it sad that they overchange just for this convention.

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 16 August 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

I think ACen seems to foster shenanigans, because I don't hear Anime iowa or Youmacon having hotel rates this high or a lot of general issues in question coming from attendees. From what one person told me, Youmacon was a small convention to them but still fun. :/

But it could be the state in question as well as the area; it's near the airport, within "public" train distance (anime midwest you need a car to reach there I discovered or another method,) and Illinois has one of the highest tax rates in the nation compared to California and New York.

Aloft is usually included in room blocks; it was last year and the year before I believe (*´・ｖ・) And the Embassy doesn't charge until you go to the hotel in question. The Hyatt I'm not sure if they change a few months ahead or not.

Of course since it's going to be near 200 dollars a night I'm going to use hotel points out the wazoo. I find it sad that they overchange just for this convention.

Anime Midwest is going to be at the Hyatt next year it seems for $99 a night and on a holiday weekend.

One hypothesis I can think of off the top of my head is that while AM has a decent amount of options for its relative size, ACen doesn't because it has become so large and is outgrowing the area. It is really here and McCormick at this point it seems..so I guess ACen doesn't have too much leverage to bargain.

This post has been edited by rondo: 17 August 2012 - 07:51 AM

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 17 August 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Anime Midwest is going to be at the Hyatt next year it seems for $99 a night and on a holiday weekend.

One hypothesis I can think of off the top of my head is that while AM has a decent amount of options for its relative size, ACen doesn't because it has become so large and is outgrowing the area. It is really here and McCormick at this point it seems..so I guess ACen doesn't have too much leverage to bargain.

But wouldn't it stay the same rather than keep on going up? I can't even remember when the hotel was around 100 dollars a night at ACen.

Its sad that such a con is going so big and having issues due to the size along with the pros :/ How do big cons like Anime expo deal with this issue?

[Isamu]

Fact is, the attendees are getting screwed on the hotel price.

[XenoBlade]

Isamu, on 17 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Fact is, the attendees are getting screwed on the hotel price.

This.

If only i could link the prices are too high meme. Lol alas im at work lol

[The Fujoshi]

Isamu, on 17 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Fact is, the attendees are getting screwed on the hotel price.

So the only solution is to either man up and pay for it or just don't go at all? I don't like how I can't really do anything to lower the prices :/ I mean not everyone has "youthful determination." Some people are college students and can't afford a hotel or other situations and some people just want to have space you know? Without having to room up with 3-4 people to cover a 500-700 dollar hotel bill

or More than that. Or just lie and fit like six people in a room at a 3 room stay ._.

It's going to the point that you NEED a roommate or you need to know someone to stay for all three-four days.

Like getting a job XD

[rondo]

The Fujoshi, on 18 August 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

So the only solution is to either man up and pay for it or just don't go at all? I don't like how I can't really do anything to lower the prices :/ I mean not everyone has "youthful determination." Some people are college students and can't afford a hotel or other situations and some people just want to have space you know? Without having to room up with 3-4 people to cover a 500-700 dollar hotel bill

or More than that. Or just lie and fit like six people in a room at a 3 room stay ._.

It's going to the point that you NEED a roommate or you need to know someone to stay for all three-four days.

Like getting a job XD

There isn't a whole lot you can do about it and the only time where they may be some change is if the prices are affecting fill rates for the hotels. Myself and Isamu share the costs and have a very expensive stay overall, including rental car and parking. The more money I have to spend on the rooms, the more money I don't spend in the DH and AA.

[myrla]

i fly in. if a room is $200/night, sorry, I'll go to Dallas, where I can drive and pay $99/night. Or go to San Antonio, where I don't need a room, and see guests I want.

Seriously... that much for a room? I didn't even pay that in NYC.

This post has been edited by myrla: 20 August 2012 - 10:08 PM

[rondo]

Well, let's just be clear. We still don't know what the price will be and hopefully, the rate is at least the same, but would be better cheaper. Hopefully that two Franklin rate is after I retire from the con circuit.

[The Fujoshi]

rondo, on 20 August 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

There isn't a whole lot you can do about it and the only time where they may be some change is if the prices are affecting fill rates for the hotels. Myself and Isamu share the costs and have a very expensive stay overall, including rental car and parking. The more money I have to spend on the rooms, the more money I don't spend in the DH and AA.

I know my justice bells are going off on how this isn't fair at all. Most of us have a good assumption because it has been rising instead of becoming cheaper over the years.

Well for me money not spent on the hotel is money that I could use for anything else, like fixing or making or buying another cosplay or what may have you.

[Roark]

Reading this thread, I'm lead to believe many people failed Econ 101.

[The Fujoshi]

Roark, on 22 August 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Reading this thread, I'm lead to believe many people failed Econ 101.

-can't tell if trolling or not jpeg-

How so?

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 22 August 2012 - 01:02 PM

[JujuFox]

Are you talking about the state of the economy with inflation and such, or supply and demand. Because it has everything to do with supply and demand.

The same is true with Gen con(the largest annual consumer fantasy, electronic, sci-fi, adventure and hobby game convention in North America). Check out the hotel prices here: http://www.gencon.co...lamenities.aspx There are a lot of hotels you can stay at ranging from $79 - $221 a night. What determines these prices? Convenience of course. Note that the closer hotels are the most expensive ones to stay at. They raise their prices for that weekend just because they can. Everyone wants to stay as close to the con as possible. One example is the two Hyatt hotels in the area. The one right next to the convention center is $195 per night. The one far away by the airport is only $92 per night.

The hotels will charge whatever they want because they know you will pay regardless. They have no problem filling up, and they have no problem raising costs and charging you extra for every little amenity. It's highway robbery, or well it's just supply an demand in a free market society.

[Agatha]

I'd wager Roark is probably referring to supply vs. demand vs. price.

If they're not having any problem filling the hotel, there's no incentive to lower prices. Obviously, people are more than willing to pay, and since the hotel's goal is to make a profit it's not unreasonable for them to try to maximize the profit they're making. If you're guaranteed to sell out no matter what, why not charge more? Bad luck for those of us paying for a room, but that's how it goes, no 'fair' or 'unfair' about it - they can charge what they like, but I also can go someplace else if I think it's too high.

Of course, as prices rise, instead of unfilled hotel rooms we may also see an increase in the number of people booking a room for 2 and then cramming 15 people in there, which the hotel also doesn't like. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out.

[DJFLuFFKiNS]

Agatha, on 22 August 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I'd wager Roark is probably referring to supply vs. demand vs. price.

If they're not having any problem filling the hotel, there's no incentive to lower prices. Obviously, people are more than willing to pay, and since the hotel's goal is to make a profit it's not unreasonable for them to try to maximize the profit they're making. If you're guaranteed to sell out no matter what, why not charge more? Bad luck for those of us paying for a room, but that's how it goes, no 'fair' or 'unfair' about it - they can charge what they like, but I also can go someplace else if I think it's too high.

Of course, as prices rise, instead of unfilled hotel rooms we may also see an increase in the number of people booking a room for 2 and then cramming 15 people in there, which the hotel also doesn't like. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out.

You're right on one part and sort of right on the other part.

First off, it's supply and demand. The more demand is higher than supply the more the market should adjust prices to capture that demand in equilibrium. When prices fall out of equilibrium there is a natural dead weight loss of efficiency and this holds true even over a market economy. Simply put, Anime Midwest will probably not have a commitment of 90+% like ACen does, and probably will fill a significantly smaller portion of the hotel. However, due to the price, they may be able to capture all of the demand the con generates from a room night standpoint. If the embassy costs 120 and the hyatt costs 99, and the hyatt has the convention itself, which are you going to choose?

Second, and a bit more complex, hotels care about ADR. Average Daily Rate. They track ADR and compare it too Rack Rate (the rate you see on hotel room doors with the exit maps). Simply put, without a convention, when you walk into the Hyatt and book a room, they'll probably quote you almost 300$/night. Why? Because you walked into their hotel to get a room. People who NEED a room tend not to walk from hotel to hotel, get the best price, and settle in. That being said, when ACen fills their room block at 190/200, that's the ADR. There's no real difference because they're almost completely booked. When a smaller con, which fills maybe 25% of the hotel is there, they'd rather have more people in the hotel, and then capture walk in guests or guests staying on corporate deals, and they may drive an ADR of close to 200$.

Not to mention, there are enormous economies of scale in a hotel. When it's 100% full, they don't have a hard time finding work for everyone who wants in. When they have less people, they have to manage their labor a lot more efficiently. This means cutting back on hours and possibly making the leftover employees work more because the extra headcount is more than another hour for another employee. Because they have to keep a minimum staff on (people who work full time), they need those rooms filled to help cover the expense. If this means reducing the room rates in order to drive more occupancy, they'll do it. 100$ with 80$ labor is better than 0$ and 80$ labor (because it's simply just not easy to cut a ton of hours back.

Expense for damage to the hotel is really just proof a hotel or convention has a bad contract. Hotels that fill up at 100% from one convention can more easily point to the convention and say, you damaged me, that's going on your bill. When it's not that big, it's harder to know broke what. Regardless, damage is usually justified as the cost to doing business in some instances and simply a passthrough in others. It's not something to affect ADR with.

Thanks,
Sam

[The Fujoshi]

Agatha, on 22 August 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I'd wager Roark is probably referring to supply vs. demand vs. price.

If they're not having any problem filling the hotel, there's no incentive to lower prices. Obviously, people are more than willing to pay, and since the hotel's goal is to make a profit it's not unreasonable for them to try to maximize the profit they're making. If you're guaranteed to sell out no matter what, why not charge more? Bad luck for those of us paying for a room, but that's how it goes, no 'fair' or 'unfair' about it - they can charge what they like, but I also can go someplace else if I think it's too high.

Of course, as prices rise, instead of unfilled hotel rooms we may also see an increase in the number of people booking a room for 2 and then cramming 15 people in there, which the hotel also doesn't like. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out.

^I'm guessing that if hotel prices go too high it will turn into this. I had a 'former friend' who did this; say he had 4 people and put in 15 and paid off the whole hotel room in the Hyatt. I refuse to room with him. He's in California and doesn't go to nor wants to go to ACen any more so saying his name is kind of moot.

You also have to put into account of status/location. Hyatt and Embassy are big name hotels so they will charge more on the name alone, the fact that it's close to the convention and just because they can.

Another example of status: Mcdonalds. The Mcdonalds in the convention center in Mccomick is the same price as the one near 80th and commercial on the south side. The one near 80th doesn't get a lot of traffic but it charges a good 2 dollars more than most Mcdonalds for the combo meals, bringing it to 7 dollars without tax. It's not near anything major either; it's in the middle of no where near a high way/bridge and a shelter.

@Roark: You may want to put down 200 dollars or have a car to just drive to the Motel a few miles away for a sweet 99 dollars a night or it doesn't apply to you because you don't really care about ACen, (from what I assumed from the single post you just made compared to the input of DJ, Juju, and Agatha,) but a lot of people do want to go to ACen and spend the night, without having to ride back and forth due to high hotel costs or pay about the same price as rent for a hotel room because they want to follow hotel policies like a good person should.

And yes the simple solution is to either: man up and pay for it, have a friend with a car and drive to a cheaper hotel, or not go. Which is why 2013 might be my last ACen since I didn't go this year.

But since ACen hasn't said the prices yet it's just guess work based on the trends of before.

[Roark]

The Fujoshi, on 22 August 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

You also have to put into account of status/location. Hyatt and Embassy are big name hotels so they will charge more on the name alone, the fact that it's close to the convention and just because they can.

I've stayed in many hotels. When it comes to Hyatt, Hilton, and Mariott, you pay for much more than the name. You pay for a certain level of service, guaranteed amenities, a good restaurant/bar on site, and a host of other things.

Remember, these hotels primarily focus on business travel and high-income guests. Booking the Hyatt is like buying business class airline tickets on American or United. You have certain expectations.

Quote

Another example of status: Mcdonalds. The Mcdonalds in the convention center in Mccomick is the same price as the one near 80th and commercial on the south side. The one near 80th doesn't get a lot of traffic but it charges a good 2 dollars more than most Mcdonalds for the combo meals, bringing it to 7 dollars without tax. It's not near anything major either; it's in the middle of no where near a high way/bridge and a shelter.

McDonalds is a really bad example, since you have major differences between locations. Corporate vs. franchise, stand-alone vs. cafeteria style, etc. They're less homogeneous than hotel chains tend to be.

Quote

@Roark: You may want to put down 200 dollars or have a car to just drive to the Motel a few miles away for a sweet 99 dollars a night or it doesn't apply to you because you don't really care about ACen, (from what I assumed from the single post you just made compared to the input of DJ, Juju, and Agatha,) but a lot of people do want to go to ACen and spend the night, without having to ride back and forth due to high hotel costs or pay about the same price as rent for a hotel room because they want to follow hotel policies like a good person should.

And yes the simple solution is to either: man up and pay for it, have a friend with a car and drive to a cheaper hotel, or not go. Which is why 2013 might be my last ACen since I didn't go this year.

But since ACen hasn't said the prices yet it's just guess work based on the trends of before.

I believe that brevity is the soul of wit. Hence, short posts.

Yes, I am referring to supply/demand. People are talking about hotel rooms for two different dates as if they were fully fungible commodities, in that you have a bunch of equal, interchangeable goods for sale and that the lowest price should win out. The exact opposite is the case, since a hotel room during Anime Midwest is qualitatively different from a hotel room during ACen.

Sam has it right. The Hyatt charges more for ACen than for Anime Midwest because it's the right business decision. They have close to 100% capacity guaranteed by the convention. If you don't like the price, 5 other people are willing to pay it.

Anime Midwest will not cause the Hyatt to hit full capacity. Not even close. Being during a holiday weekend without a lot of business travel means that the Hyatt likely faces the prospect of empty rooms. Solution? Invite in a convention that will drive traffic and give them excellent rates.

So, the prices will likely remain high for ACen 2013. Because people will pay it.

Note that even corporate rates often aren't much better than the rack rates that Sam talks about. Instead, corporations negotiate for consistent rates (generally set off a schedule of the property's tier and location) and a service level agreement, so that they can guarantee access to rooms when necessary. This is why you see pilots and flight attendants getting rooms during ACen. The airlines have an SLA that guarantees access to rooms regardless of dates. Theoretically, Google could have a major IT issue and demand a block of rooms in the middle of ACen. The hotel would likely try to work out something about staying in the Hyatt down the street, but worst case scenario would be bumping some convention rooms for Google's use, since their SLA likely trumps ACen's.

(Note that certain tier rewards members can also bump people regardless of the situation. They pay through the nose in points to do so, but I've known people who have demanded rooms - and got them - from fully booked hotels.)

Edit: Also, I feel that ~$200/night is about the right price to pay for the Hyatt Regency during ACen, given capacity and hotel tier. It's on par with similar hotels in similar situations (GenCon, DragonCon, Otakon, ComiCon, etc.).

This post has been edited by Roark: 22 August 2012 - 03:06 PM