[minecraftsmurf]

*sips on coffee pondering*


So, the other day, the power was knocked out for 1.5 hours for construction… *sad face* and I did not know what to do… so I began contemplating things… and taxes was at the high of my ‘awakening.’

What is the total % of the entire population that is of age and not working?
So let’s round down the national unemployment rate to 8% plus the % of individuals whom have exhausted their benefits and are no longer counted in that above % plus the number of college students who have never worked and are seeking jobs plus the % of individuals whom are living with their parents / guardians and are not looking for jobs plus the % of individuals on disability plus the % of individuals on government aid systems with no intentions of working.
After wasting about 4 hours of my life surfing EBSCOhost and a few other university regulated mass databases and countless sources I concluded that the number is roughly 21% of the population (of age 18+ to work [not including college full time college students]).
So from a tax standpoint. This means that the top 10% of the 79% (of individuals that actually work) play roughly 56% of the entire population’s 100% (including children and individuals not of working age) total tax burden...
Does anyone have any studies to add to this? Perhaps all my calculations are skewed. I did round down in many cases to prevent myself from headdecking more than necessary.

*head desk* please someone prove this wrong.... 20% of our nation? That can't be right... can it? If it is... perhaps we have a much larger problem that originally anticipated.

[Dark Stranger]

Can't help. But all I want is a flat tax rate. So much easier.

[minecraftsmurf]

Dark Stranger, on 19 June 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Can't help. But all I want is a flat tax rate. So much easier.

I did like Herman Cain's 999 plan.

[Dark Stranger]

You know for all the democrats/liberal talk of being "taxed fairly" you'd think they'd be pushing for it. I mean the definition of fair is everyone gets the same treatment. 10% tax on a million dollar Rolls Royce is alot. 10% on a used 2000 dollar Honda is not a lot. Rich pay more, poor pays less. Fair.

[rondo]

Nix the loopholes.

[Prayer Police]

[The Fujoshi]

Prayer Police, on 20 June 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

Hahahahahah <3

I was confused; what exactly are you looking for? I mean if you consider that illinois has the highest tax on stuff in the nation. Also places like Canada not only do they charge taxes but also county tax and state tax and other fees on stuff.

But you're talking about the nation percentage as what we do and what we don't do.

Seriously why, does this country complain so much but don't do anything about it or help the other man change themselves? There are people, like myself, who want to work and do stuff but due to the high standards of employment that requires you indirectly to know someone or to know at least two-three languages outside of english it's next to impossible.

Or why do they complain but get offended when other countries say how spoiled we are. I mean we are. We can buy whatever we want without outrageous shipping fees, we can drink whatever we want without having to cross state or country because it's illegal in a lot of other countries, we can live where we want (sort of,) without having to worry about race, sexual, or religion profile, etc. and we can eat Durian fruit and Lion meat if we choose to do so.

[JujuFox]

I would like to work too, but my problem is whenever I actually get a good job they lay me off in a year due to cut backs. I've been laid off twice in my short career, and the one I quit laid off everyone shortly after I left.

Sadly, I'm almost at the end of my unemployment benefits, so I'll be joining the ranks of the unaccounted for percentage of Americans who are unemployed.

Artists are like tissues. Grab one, blow your nose in it, throw it away. Need another tissue? Just grab one from the box! It really sucks right now. No one is hiring full-time, and those that are want you to be a designer, animator, web programmer, and IT professional all-in-one. They don't want to pay any benefits, just grab an artist for a month and ditch them until another one is needed. It's really bad out there... and I still have student loans to pay.

[linlindesu]

@ minecraftsmurf: A few questions. Do you still live with your parents? Are you still a university student? Do you have a job? Do you pay any bills? Do you have children?


@Fujoshi : I have to disagree there. The job market actually isn't that terrible. Are high paying jobs a little harder to find? yes but a well rounded degree and simple computer knowledge can usually lead to a few interviews.

[The Fujoshi]

linlindesu, on 20 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

@ minecraftsmurf: A few questions. Do you still live with your parents? Are you still a university student? Do you have a job? Do you pay any bills? Do you have children?


@Fujoshi : I have to disagree there. The job market actually isn't that terrible. Are high paying jobs a little harder to find? yes but a well rounded degree and simple computer knowledge can usually lead to a few interviews.

It might be my state but for me it's the opposite. I can type a good 60-120 words per minute and I have 3-4 years of retail and 3-4+ years of doing various other tasks, such as working with customer service, etc. but my data entry isn't as fast. STILL regardless of my data entry I can't get a job due to the fact that I need to go back to college, need to know someone, or need to know at least two languages. My first job at Banana republic was because of the fact that job corp knew the former CEO and she personally did mock interviews.

I tried to apply to several banks and they always said that they needed someone with a 4 year degree and someone who can type about a good 500-2000 numbers in data entry @_@;

I tried Best buy and the only reason they called me back was because they thought (through a mistake from the department,) I knew extremely fluent Japanese/Polish/Spanish ._.; When I corrected them they turned me down.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 20 June 2012 - 12:53 PM

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 20 June 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

high standards of employment that requires you indirectly to know someone or to know at least two-three languages outside of english it's next to impossible.

That's a 50/50 statement to me. If I look for a job I can find it. I always have, without knowing anyone who worked there perviously. It's also helped I had parttime jobs since I was 15. However for places like banks and some other places you are correct that they are looking for bi-lingual people which I hate. This is America. We speak english in our bunisses. We shouldn't have to know another languge.

[JujuFox]

linlindesu, on 20 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

@Fujoshi : I have to disagree there. The job market actually isn't that terrible. Are high paying jobs a little harder to find? yes but a well rounded degree and simple computer knowledge can usually lead to a few interviews.

Question for you: What do you consider a high paying job? Give me some numbers hourly or salary based. I think I might be in disagreement with you on this.

I have a BFA and 3 years experience in my field, and though I have gotten a few interviews those have not turned into jobs. Are people still hiring? Yes, but very few are looking to hire full time with benefits.

[linlindesu]

Dark Stranger, on 20 June 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

That's a 50/50 statement to me. If I look for a job I can find it. I always have, without knowing anyone who worked there perviously. It's also helped I had parttime jobs since I was 15. However for places like banks and some other places you are correct that they are looking for bi-lingual people which I hate. This is America. We speak english in our bunisses. We shouldn't have to know another languge.

Oh lord. Get over it. Unless you are 100% Native American chances are your relatives did not speak the native tongue when they came here.
Go to another country. Guess what? A lot of foreigners speak English and Americans are NOTORIOUS for not attempting the native language when they travel.

[JujuFox]

Dark Stranger, on 20 June 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

That's a 50/50 statement to me. If I look for a job I can find it. I always have, without knowing anyone who worked there perviously. It's also helped I had parttime jobs since I was 15. However for places like banks and some other places you are correct that they are looking for bi-lingual people which I hate. This is America. We speak english in our bunisses. We shouldn't have to know another languge.

That's good that you've been able to get jobs so easily. My first job was the only one where I had friends there, and the HR lady was my friend's mom. All the rest were on my own, not knowing anyone there or having any advantage. However, I've been looking for a year almost, and have not been able to find something full time.

Also, lots of businesses NEED bilingual employees to do business. The last place I worked at was constantly hiring translators for the products we were developing. We needed sales people who could speak another language to talk with oversea companies that we wanted to market our product to. Besides all that, we are a nation of immigrants. Some legal residents might not fully speak English yet, and might need the assistance of a translator. There are many really good reasons to have bilingual employees. Let's not turn this into a "We only speak American" debate. : /

[GITS SAC Motoko]

linlindesu, on 20 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Oh lord. Get over it. Unless you are 100% Native American chances are your relatives did not speak the native tongue when they came here.
Go to another country. Guess what? A lot of foreigners speak English and Americans are NOTORIOUS for not attempting the native language when they travel.

JujuFox, on 20 June 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

That's good that you've been able to get jobs so easily. My first job was the only one where I had friends there, and the HR lady was my friend's mom. All the rest were on my own, not knowing anyone there or having any advantage. However, I've been looking for a year almost, and have not been able to find something full time.

Also, lots of businesses NEED bilingual employees to do business. The last place I worked at was constantly hiring translators for the products we were developing. We needed sales people who could speak another language to talk with oversea companies that we wanted to market our product to. Besides all that, we are a nation of immigrants. Some legal residents might not fully speak English yet, and might need the assistance of a translator. There are many really good reasons to have bilingual employees. Let's not turn this into a "We only speak American" debate. : /

Both are very true statements. The medical field especially needs multi language speakers. Especially in hospitals and the nursing field. In the nursing field I have heard from my professors that knowing another language will VERY MUCH help you get hired, let alone get you interviews. Especially in Chicago when tons of different people of different cultures come in. It's nice to have face to face interaction with patients in the patient's native language since it allows the patient to stay within their culture and at the same time we can adequately treat them . And it's nice because you might not have an interpreter (since hospitals are cutting funding because of health care costs getting so high so interpreters are getting laid off) so they have to rely on the phone interpreter system (and that is a very impersonal and emotionless system) and it makes it harder for the patient since it's not face to face interaction. Knowing languages other than English are a plus these days in the giant "melting pot" country we have. Is it super required, no. But it sure helps.

This post has been edited by GITS SAC Motoko: 20 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

[Kyuu]

Here's some history on US taxation:
http://taxfoundation.org/

More specifically. Here were the tax rates since 1913:
http://taxfoundation...justed-brackets

NOTE: The response reflected on the tax rates for both World Wars and in response to the Great Depression. Likewise, see the declining rates since 1980.

[XenoBlade]

Dark Stranger, on 20 June 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

That's a 50/50 statement to me. If I look for a job I can find it. I always have, without knowing anyone who worked there perviously. It's also helped I had parttime jobs since I was 15. However for places like banks and some other places you are correct that they are looking for bi-lingual people which I hate. This is America. We speak english in our bunisses. We shouldn't have to know another languge.

In a world where getting ANY job is cutthroat, and in 20-50 years white americans will be the minority, knowing another language is crucial. Granted, I'd much like those people who come over here (one way or another) to actually learn english too (if they are going to work with english speaking people) I've encountered this situation twice with a language barrier hurting efficiency at work.

[minecraftsmurf]

linlindesu, on 20 June 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

@ minecraftsmurf: A few questions. Do you still live with your parents? Are you still a university student? Do you have a job? Do you pay any bills? Do you have children?


@Fujoshi : I have to disagree there. The job market actually isn't that terrible. Are high paying jobs a little harder to find? yes but a well rounded degree and simple computer knowledge can usually lead to a few interviews.

*sighs lightly* I dislike bringing up personal affairs regarding myself, or anyone else.

However, I do live by myself, I graduated from college with a 3.96 GPA, I work around 50-60 (sometimes up to 70) hours a week, I pay all of my bills (except the mortgage on one of my two residencies as one was given in a trust) and I do not buy anything unless I can pay in full or set up an annuity to distribute the money properly for credit building (thus why I have 0 debt), I do not have children (however when I do decide to have children I will ensure that I can completely support them financially, emotionally, free time, proper atmosphere, etc.

38% of my total income goes to taxes. I revived no tax return for 2011... I had to pay... a lot. I was not some spoiled kid... if I wanted something I would have to work for it, even if it was a simple task (accumulated over a period of time builds a work ethic that so many individuals fail to have these days). I was not given my job... I earned it the hard way.

[minecraftsmurf]

Kyuu, on 20 June 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Here's some history on US taxation:
http://taxfoundation.org/

More specifically. Here were the tax rates since 1913:
http://taxfoundation...justed-brackets

NOTE: The response reflected on the tax rates for both World Wars and in response to the Great Depression. Likewise, see the declining rates since 1980.

I would say when an individual pays over 40% of there total income to taxes (wealth redistribution) that individual no longer lives in a republic... that individual no longer lives in a free market... that individual lives under the rules of socialism.

[Edit] The following video is an explanation of "Bar Stool Economics and How Taxes Work." This is how the American Tax system works: http://youtu.be/Xj7nRc3_EG0

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 20 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

[XenoBlade]

minecraftsmurf, on 20 June 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

*sighs lightly* I dislike bringing up personal affairs regarding myself, or anyone else.

However, I do live by myself, I graduated from college with a 3.96 GPA, I work around 50-60 (sometimes up to 70) hours a week, I pay all of my bills (except the mortgage on one of my two residencies as one was given in a trust) and I do not buy anything unless I can pay in full or set up an annuity to distribute the money properly for credit building (thus why I have 0 debt), I do not have children (however when I do decide to have children I will ensure that I can completely support them financially, emotionally, free time, proper atmosphere, etc.

38% of my total income goes to taxes. I revived no tax return for 2011... I had to pay... a lot. I was not some spoiled kid... if I wanted something I would have to work for it, even if it was a simple task (accumulated over a period of time builds a work ethic that so many individuals fail to have these days). I was not given my job... I earned it the hard way.

We may not agree on a good part of things, but I have all the respect in the world right now for you. We have some same views when it comes to life stuff. (like the paying in full bit and the children bit) And I feel ya on not being spoiled. Same with me. I always bought everything I wanted.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 20 June 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

That's a 50/50 statement to me. If I look for a job I can find it. I always have, without knowing anyone who worked there perviously. It's also helped I had parttime jobs since I was 15. However for places like banks and some other places you are correct that they are looking for bi-lingual people which I hate. This is America. We speak english in our bunisses. We shouldn't have to know another languge.

You do know that this country was originally based on immigrants and that english wasn't our main language, but became the main when we broke off from Britain? It would be different if we were let's say Poland or Austria and we didn't get a lot of immigrants.

I can find a job Dark, the problem is getting hired. Especially one that helps the standard of living and high taxes. That's the problem I'm having. And considering that Asians are increasing more so than hispanics, you might need to learn Japanese/Chinese/etc. more so than Spanish soon.

The standard of living in the nation is high as well as everything else. When you could buy bread for 25 cents you can't anymore.

[Dark Stranger]

linlindesu, on 20 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Oh lord. Get over it. Unless you are 100% Native American chances are your relatives did not speak the native tongue when they came here.
Go to another country. Guess what? A lot of foreigners speak English and Americans are NOTORIOUS for not attempting the native language when they travel.

Irish and Scottish by the way. Just fyi,

JujuFox, on 20 June 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

That's good that you've been able to get jobs so easily. My first job was the only one where I had friends there, and the HR lady was my friend's mom. All the rest were on my own, not knowing anyone there or having any advantage. However, I've been looking for a year almost, and have not been able to find something full time.

Also, lots of businesses NEED bilingual employees to do business. The last place I worked at was constantly hiring translators for the products we were developing. We needed sales people who could speak another language to talk with oversea companies that we wanted to market our product to. Besides all that, we are a nation of immigrants. Some legal residents might not fully speak English yet, and might need the assistance of a translator. There are many really good reasons to have bilingual employees. Let's not turn this into a "We only speak American" debate. : /

If you are in a field where you are doing business overseas, yes I can see being bi or multi-lingual is mandatory. However if your company is only in the US it should not be mantatory. Would if help? Of course, but American businesses should not be having signs or doing buisness in America in another languge. People have this sort of mix conception about America being a melting pot. Yes, all immigrants came here from all over to live in America, but they always seem to leave out that they came legally and did it the proper way, learned english, and also made sure that their childern were doing well in schools and learning the language as well. Did they speak their own language inside their own homes? Of course, but they knew the world wasn't going to bend over backwards for them to make them "feel better" or "more aquainted" in this country.

The Fujoshi, on 20 June 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

You do know that this country was originally based on immigrants and that english wasn't our main language, but became the main when we broke off from Britain? It would be different if we were let's say Poland or Austria and we didn't get a lot of immigrants.

I can find a job Dark, the problem is getting hired. Especially one that helps the standard of living and high taxes. That's the problem I'm having. And considering that Asians are increasing more so than hispanics, you might need to learn Japanese/Chinese/etc. more so than Spanish soon.

The standard of living in the nation is high as well as everything else. When you could buy bread for 25 cents you can't anymore.

Well I do hope you find one fujoshi, If you lived around here I could even help get you some.

But, I do love this whole "standerd of living" talk. What is the basics to living? Roof over your head, clothes on your back, food in your home, bills paid. That's it. everything else is expendable. We just dont' want it to be. Hell I've been living on my own since I was 20 and I just now got internet installed in my own home. Why? Because I couldn't afford it before. Many of the things we consider a "standerd of living" are actually things we take for granted. Even if it comes down to me eating 88c bread and raman noodles every day (which I did when I first started out) as long as everything else is paid I'm making enough for a living. The problem isn't pay, it's that OUR standerd are too high. Perfect example. Guy called a radio show supporting Occupy and complaining about jobs and how he has a college degree and should have a job. Radio host asked if he wanted to work for him as a I.T type guy. And the caller refused because he says hes degree means he should be making at least $80,000 dollars annualy. These are the types of people complaining about "standereds of living".

[Jeff]

Dark Stranger, on 19 June 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

You know for all the democrats/liberal talk of being "taxed fairly" you'd think they'd be pushing for it. I mean the definition of fair is everyone gets the same treatment. 10% tax on a million dollar Rolls Royce is alot. 10% on a used 2000 dollar Honda is not a lot. Rich pay more, poor pays less. Fair.

If you're buying a Rolls Royce, you can afford a Rolls Royce. If you're buying a 2000 dollar car, you probably can't afford anything better and need to get to and from your low paying job.

Just saying.

[Dark Stranger]

Jeff, on 20 June 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

If you're buying a Rolls Royce, you can afford a Rolls Royce. If you're buying a 2000 dollar car, you probably can't afford anything better and need to get to and from your low paying job.

Just saying.

So, your saying it's fair to tax rich people to the point of them not being able to afford things?

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 20 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Well I do hope you find one fujoshi, If you lived around here I could even help get you some.

But, I do love this whole "standerd of living" talk. What is the basics to living? Roof over your head, clothes on your back, food in your home, bills paid. That's it. everything else is expendable. We just dont' want it to be. Hell I've been living on my own since I was 20 and I just now got internet installed in my own home. Why? Because I couldn't afford it before. Many of the things we consider a "standerd of living" are actually things we take for granted. Even if it comes down to me eating 88c bread and raman noodles every day (which I did when I first started out) as long as everything else is paid I'm making enough for a living. The problem isn't pay, it's that OUR standerd are too high. Perfect example. Guy called a radio show supporting Occupy and complaining about jobs and how he has a college degree and should have a job. Radio host asked if he wanted to work for him as a I.T type guy. And the caller refused because he says hes degree means he should be making at least $80,000 dollars annualy. These are the types of people complaining about "standereds of living".

Standard of living as in:

Food
Shelter
Heat/Gas/Lights

You don't really need clothes because that is what goodwills are for.

But here in Chicago, if you want an apartment like I mention you need to make 3000 dollars per month, have good credit, and/or pay 2000 dollars security deposit that includes the rent before you move in. I'm not even talking about the more pricy ones, but most of them want double or triple the amount of rent per money in the gross salary.

Section 8 and idiots are making it hard to find a place, so the standard of living and a job is different. You need to make a good 11 dollars a hour now or have two people with two jobs in order to find a place in a good area, if you do not have section 8, compared to years ago that making min. wage was enough to get by.

I say tax the rich, maybe then they can fix the homeless issu-wait no it wouldn't. Nobody really taxes the rich (successfully) from what I remember in history, due to them being the popular minority. And the money would most likely go back to the rich anyway.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 21 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

[XenoBlade]

Dark Stranger, on 21 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

So, your saying it's fair to tax rich people to the point of them not being able to afford things?

You are taking what he said out of proportion. No one is saying tax the rich til they can't afford things. What he IS saying is that the rich can handle more taxes compared to the poor. I doubt you can simply tax the rich to where they can't afford things.

In that case. Was your examples about two cars sarcastic?

edit: to add, I'm guessing you are for the trickle down system?

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 21 June 2012 - 04:23 PM

[Dark Stranger]

XenoBlade, on 21 June 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

You are taking what he said out of proportion. No one is saying tax the rich til they can't afford things. What he IS saying is that the rich can handle more taxes compared to the poor. I doubt you can simply tax the rich to where they can't afford things.

In that case. Was your examples about two cars sarcastic?

It wasn't sarcastic. But I was just using them as a example. Not every rich person has or wants a rolls royce. And heck, not everyone wants a honda. I was just using a number on items on extreme ends of the spectrum.

The Fujoshi, on 21 June 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Standard of living as in:

Food
Shelter
Heat/Gas/Lights

You don't really need clothes because that is what goodwills are for.

But here in Chicago, if you want an apartment like I mention you need to make 3000 dollars per month, have good credit, and/or pay 2000 dollars security deposit that includes the rent before you move in. I'm not even talking about the more pricy ones, but most of them want double or triple the amount of rent per money in the gross salary.

Section 8 and idiots are making it hard to find a place, so the standard of living and a job is different. You need to make a good 11 dollars a hour now or have two people with two jobs in order to find a place in a good area, if you do not have section 8, compared to years ago that making min. wage was enough to get by.

I say tax the rich, maybe then they can fix the homeless issu-wait no it wouldn't. Nobody really taxes the rich (successfully) from what I remember in history, due to them being the popular minority. And the money would most likely go back to the rich anyway.

But again, that's not a fed goverment issue nor a tax issue. It's more then likely a state goverment issue. Just like a said eariler, Indiana is in the black and I've never needed a job to pay me more then 10 bucks a hour to afford everything I need. heck I'm only making 9 dollars a hour at one job and 7 1/2 on the other and I'm paying for a car, full coverage auto insurance, rent, electricity, food, and numerous bills. While Ill has been in the red for years and everything is worse comparativitly. (course that may be due to other factors then money that aren't really gonna be covered here.)

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 21 June 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

It wasn't sarcastic. But I was just using them as a example. Not every rich person has or wants a rolls royce. And heck, not everyone wants a honda. I was just using a number on items on extreme ends of the spectrum.


But again, that's not a fed goverment issue nor a tax issue. It's more then likely a state goverment issue. Just like a said eariler, Indiana is in the black and I've never needed a job to pay me more then 10 bucks a hour to afford everything I need. heck I'm only making 9 dollars a hour at one job and 7 1/2 on the other and I'm paying for a car, full coverage auto insurance, rent, electricity, food, and numerous bills. While Ill has been in the red for years and everything is worse comparativitly. (course that may be due to other factors then money that aren't really gonna be covered here.)

It might also be because we are in the red and we have one of the highest taxes in the states.

Which is why taxes are an issue; each country is different and can't agree on the same thing, etc.

That brings up a point; if you are rich do state taxes still apply to you in certain goods or does it stop after a certain limit/breaking point?

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 22 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

It might also be because we are in the red and we have one of the highest taxes in the states.

Which is why taxes are an issue; each country is different and can't agree on the same thing, etc.

That brings up a point; if you are rich do state taxes still apply to you in certain goods or does it stop after a certain limit/breaking point?

As far as I know it does. In fact I bet more of our money state wise comes from taxing rich. But I can't say I'm 100% on that.

[JujuFox]

The Fujoshi, on 22 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

That brings up a point; if you are rich do state taxes still apply to you in certain goods or does it stop after a certain limit/breaking point?

Different goods are taxed differently depending on what they are, and where you are, but not by how much you make. The county and state determines that, like the "sin tax" applies to a tax on cigarettes and alcohol, produce is taxed lower than other types of groceries.

Regardless, sales tax has nothing to do with how much money you make.