[Dark Stranger]

Ok. This has been happening on here for awhile now (mostly whenever big politcal news happens) and I'm honestly getting tired of it. I like to debate, I like to discuss current event happenings, I like to voice my opinon on such events. However on here, the mods have almost taken it to the point of trying to make us all get along by not letting us talk about it. I'm tired of this sentamint of "If you all can't agree we have to take this away now." We are big girls and boys. We can handle ourselves. Now of course I will say that if it becomes nothing but flaming and personal attacks some action should be taken. Like deleting those persons comments or something. not shutting down the thread. If someone is being disrtuptive in a classroom the whole class doesn't get detention.

Now I will first admit that I am not a subtle person when it comes to debating. I am very blunt, upfront, I hold nothing back about how I feel, and some might say worse about me. However, I do try to read and listen to other view points even if I don't agree with them. And I also do not personal attack someone because of their politcal position or for any other reason.

We are all different people, and locking up threads because we might debate or even argue because it might make people offended is really annoying. Just had to vent about it.

[redx1]

I have actually been noticing the same trend. I will give the mods some credit though, their job is not easy. While everyone has their own method of "moderating", closing threads or removing provoking posts is a very common and effective way to keep the peace on the forums. Ultimately, that is the job of the moderators.


I will put my two cents in though. Instead of closing threads and removing provoking posts, I find it was much more proactive to gently remind everyone that respect is required while posting on the forums. People are very passionate about politics, religion, home life, morals etc. When people disagree on topics they are passionate about, tempers tend to flare. Once upon a time when I was a mod, my approach was to remove posts and close topics as a last resort. I'd rather hop in, remind everyone to be respectful, then let the debate continue.

[STVO]

I'm a laid back guy so I personally don't care if people do post them or not. But I'm not one for political debate, so I choose not to participate because one the topics get very heated (I know first hand as I have lots of family that's really into it) and two most places have discussed two topics you really shouldn't get into are "politics" and "religion." The last topic is one I hate to be apart of. I'm a Christian (not hardcore by any means) and making a simple post trying to show my religion results in debate sometimes. I've un-friended someone over it (wasn't that close and his negative comment was the only time I ever recall him commenting on my page) and I find it ridiculous. I'm sure that kind of stuff might be happening with the political posts here, but I wouldn't really know.

Anyway, my final opinion is *I* personally have nothing against it because I choose not to participate. But to those that want to discuss, keep it civil and respectful and avoid any personal animosity. I'll admit this kind of stuff happens whenever I see a "I'm not going to ACen Ever Again" thread. Personally I don't think we need to see the multiple ones that pop-up happen but that's only because there is already a "Gripes" thread. Just my opinion.

Excuse me while I go discuss cosplay, video games, and WWE.

[GITS SAC Motoko]

I feel a lot of the threads get locked up is because at times people do get offended when someone argues against their views, and like it has been said, some are VERY passionate about their views. And that's cool. But I think it gets out of hand when people INSULT each other about it. There's a difference of saying "no health care should stay as it is" to "health care should be for all" instead of "no you rich evil greedy person health care should not be for the chosen few!" to "you lazy person you want free health care" is very different. When there is insulting going on, posts should be deleted or threads locked if gone out of hand.

[XenoBlade]

Debating is good. (i think some people shouldn't debate. A lot of folk can't take heat very well. Aka, the sensitive) but there is a way to debate. Being civil means accepting ones views, but refuting it in a proper man. Sounding sarcastic and uppity like some folk choose to do, come off as pretentious and douchy. Now with the last topic, both sides were wrong at times (not just "that" side.) , and civility just flew out the window. Another added problem was off topic arguments. Even though it wouldve boiled down to it, it really wasn't a political debate on the level it became.

If we cant debate civilly, its going to keep happening. Honestly i try to stay out of religion, political, and gay right topics. Those always get nasty. Heavy opinions always fly.

[BreBre716]

I remember the same thing happened when the announcement Bin Laden's death happened. I wasn't trying to offend anyone but I was just saying that I didn't really approve of the party rockin' over a man's death even if he was a killer and so on and so forth then I think someone who has a family member in the military or was a vet posted against me and went on a loooong rant and stuff about how I shouldn't be doing a "Devil's Advocate". then the mods closed the thread.

[Kii]

But that's how the ACen forums have always been. Not just with political topics, but with all topics where people start to heatedly disagree.It's not awesome, but there are plenty of other forums where you can get your debate on without being censored or having it taken down.
It's just that ACen isn't really one of them.Trust me, I used to get pissed off about it too. Just learn to let it go, I guess.

[Krystal]

I pretty much left these forums for a reason. I always used to be on them, but powertrippers powertrip. Basically, you can do one of two things:

1. Allow yourself to be unfairly governed, realizing that censoring you may be the only ego boost some people get at all, or
2. Leave.


Besides, political debate is awesome in real life. Try talking to your friends or family!

[The Fujoshi]

BreBre716, on 19 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

I remember the same thing happened when the announcement Bin Laden's death happened. I wasn't trying to offend anyone but I was just saying that I didn't really approve of the party rockin' over a man's death even if he was a killer and so on and so forth then I think someone who has a family member in the military or was a vet posted against me and went on a loooong rant and stuff about how I shouldn't be doing a "Devil's Advocate". then the mods closed the thread.

Similar thing happened to me but you was lucky. Apparently someone(?) from here posted it on 4chan and acted like me (as a troll attempt?) from what I gathered in pms. I seen it, kindly said that wasn't me and never been back since.

I also learned that I can't trust anyone here with information and decided then on to not really say too much personal statements about myself (expect for said political closed thread to make a point.)

The thread in question that I posted was me going to jail. Apparently I was busy with that and deaths in the family so I wasn't thinking when I posted it and I thought everyone here was cool/supportive of me. I have no idea because the thread was gone when I came back but from what I gathered people said some nasty, racist things, about me and the mods closed the thread. The only reason why I know is because I got a ton of pms when I came back, which gave me mixed feelings of gratefulness and distrust.

To be honest I don't mind debating but I guess the mods close it because it turns into a "he said she said," and it gets really personally rather than the topic at handle. So I understand their point of view.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 19 May 2012 - 10:34 PM

[sisterdiscord]

Not usually a mod, just your friendly neighborhood Rosa-- but let me say that a part of it is that we've got to be careful. I asked the mods to do this during the presidential elections last time because it began to get heated.

As a 501c3 we are an apolitical organization, and while the forums aren't ACEN/MAPS words, we try to err on the side of caution in not getting tangled up in political speech because it could literally cost us our NFP status.

Causes like the Comic Book legal Defense Fund? Absolutely fair game, but when it comes to partisanship and elections, we must remain neutral, and we need to avoid the perception of taking sides or endorsing.

I don't want to stir up a big fuss, but you guys did ask, and I feel like you deserve an answer.

[cactusmomma]

Touching in on this quickly. I closed the welfare benefit thread because it -was- growing heated, the subject is something that is very close to home for many people, and the thread was beginning to go from informative discussion to angry fingerpointing, even after mod intervention. I closed that thread for the time being to allow people to cool down on it for a couple days. That does not mean the thread will be closed forever.

[The Fujoshi]

cactusmomma, on 19 May 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Touching in on this quickly. I closed the welfare benefit thread because it -was- growing heated, the subject is something that is very close to home for many people, and the thread was beginning to go from informative discussion to angry fingerpointing, even after mod intervention. I closed that thread for the time being to allow people to cool down on it for a couple days. That does not mean the thread will be closed forever.

Is this a change? I mean.....I seen threads closed forever so the fact/ideal that it might be opened again is shocking. I was surprised that this one thread lasted for so long o_o

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 20 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

[BreBre716]

Well It doesn't look like anyone is attacking/getting butthurt/offended/being rude/being vulgar/being aggressive towards each other so were Okay

[linlindesu]

The Fujoshi, on 20 May 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Is this a change? I mean.....I seen threads closed forever so the fact/ideal that it might be opened again is shocking. I was surprised that this one thread lasted for so long o_o

no, she stated in the last post in that thread it would be reopened in a few days. mods have done that to other threads, for instance the count to 500 thread during the con.

[JujuFox]

I'm a moderator (obviously on another forum) and we have a members only area(must make a donation) that is the only place we allow political and religious threads. This way only serious/dedicated members are allowed to debate and post topics, and it's not viewable by the public. This is how we can easily control topics that would become heated debates, and how we can protect our community by hiding these from the public.

On an open forum like this anyone can see these threads, anyone "off the street" can post, and if certain things are being said it can reflect very badly on ACen.

Moderators gonna moderate.

[minecraftsmurf]

cactusmomma, on 19 May 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Touching in on this quickly. I closed the welfare benefit thread because it -was- growing heated, the subject is something that is very close to home for many people, and the thread was beginning to go from informative discussion to angry fingerpointing, even after mod intervention. I closed that thread for the time being to allow people to cool down on it for a couple days. That does not mean the thread will be closed forever.

Negative, that is not the 'prime' reason that thread was temporarily terminated.

[Dark Stranger]

sisterdiscord, on 19 May 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Not usually a mod, just your friendly neighborhood Rosa-- but let me say that a part of it is that we've got to be careful. I asked the mods to do this during the presidential elections last time because it began to get heated.

As a 501c3 we are an apolitical organization, and while the forums aren't ACEN/MAPS words, we try to err on the side of caution in not getting tangled up in political speech because it could literally cost us our NFP status.

Causes like the Comic Book legal Defense Fund? Absolutely fair game, but when it comes to partisanship and elections, we must remain neutral, and we need to avoid the perception of taking sides or endorsing.

I don't want to stir up a big fuss, but you guys did ask, and I feel like you deserve an answer.

While I can understand that, Your not really taking a side unless someone or a mod makes a threads only about one side. Example, someone makes a pro obama/rommey thread only. That could be considered taking a side even if inside the thread both sides can talk. But if a thread clearly is described to be debating zone for both sides. I don't see how you could get in trouble for siding with anything.

I like the idea for members to go somewhere else to chat about topics that could get heated. But I can't really afford or see it worth the money to use that. Plus most of these people I meet and know here. If I could hang out at their house and sit around and drink a beer and debate with them I could. But I don't live near them at all. This is how I talk to them most of the time.

[myrla]

"But if a thread clearly is described to be debating zone for both sides. I don't see how you could get in trouble for siding with anything."

Because it's what sides are put out there. There are more sides than just 2 to every argument. Legally, if they allow those 2, they'd have to allow ANY political party (think pro-aryan, racist parties) as well.

[rondo]

Changes all the names in your debate.

Like candidate Elephant face versus incumbent Donkey face.

[myrla]

rondo, on 21 May 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Changes all the names in your debate.

Like candidate Elephant face versus incumbent Donkey face.

It doesn't matter by the letter of the law.

TBH, if people want to debate politics, go to those kind of boards. I agree if mods shut down threads.. i'd rather see the threads be shut down than the boards.

[rondo]

Well that's pretty queer but oh well. Moving on.

This post has been edited by rondo: 21 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

[The Fujoshi]

linlindesu, on 20 May 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

no, she stated in the last post in that thread it would be reopened in a few days. mods have done that to other threads, for instance the count to 500 thread during the con.

I mean for most of the threads that were canned since I joined, almost all of them were not reopened. This is the first time I seen one that was in chit chat, period, so it was a shock to me.

[Dark Stranger]

myrla, on 21 May 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

"But if a thread clearly is described to be debating zone for both sides. I don't see how you could get in trouble for siding with anything."

Because it's what sides are put out there. There are more sides than just 2 to every argument. Legally, if they allow those 2, they'd have to allow ANY political party (think pro-aryan, racist parties) as well.

Well....let em. However instead of us just all shutting those people down with our stands agaisnt them. In those two cases i'm assuming that it would boil down to personal attacks. But I say we can still do it. Also if a pro-aryan person does say anything, most of the time it's never construtive and it's just going to be racist anyway which would just get his post deleted, not the whole thread.

[myrla]

"Also if a pro-aryan person does say anything, most of the time it's never construtive and it's just going to be racist anyway which would just get his post deleted, not the whole thread. "

See, this is the part where it gets sketchy.

Because yes, to you, it's racism. To the poster, it's "normal" or "his beliefs". There are plenty of "Christians" who are incredibly racist and sexist when they post, yet it's allowed to stay.

(for the record I'm a human being, and don't give a whit about labels, and think we all need to start thinking together instead of apart)

I have to say that most of the "debate" on here consists of name calling and ad hominem attacks, very little constructive debate goes on, which is why I don't participate.

[Dark Stranger]

myrla, on 21 May 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

"Also if a pro-aryan person does say anything, most of the time it's never construtive and it's just going to be racist anyway which would just get his post deleted, not the whole thread. "

See, this is the part where it gets sketchy.

Because yes, to you, it's racism. To the poster, it's "normal" or "his beliefs". There are plenty of "Christians" who are incredibly racist and sexist when they post, yet it's allowed to stay.

(for the record I'm a human being, and don't give a whit about labels, and think we all need to start thinking together instead of apart)

I have to say that most of the "debate" on here consists of name calling and ad hominem attacks, very little constructive debate goes on, which is why I don't participate.

Well as horriable as it might sound as long as it's contructive and not personally attacking someone then yeah, they could say that. Some people think what I say might be racist or whatever because I get very blunt and passonite. But I can still debate with people no matter how angry I am about said topic.

Let me put it this way, say a racist just comes out and says something like "The economy is sucky because of all those "black people" are the problem." Pretty racist resonse and personal to several people on here. That would be post or person who just get canned outright. However if calmmed down his approch and even tried to used statitics and whatnot to somehow prove that it's only black people are the problem, it should stay up now matter how stupid it may sound. If said response were to come up then it would be our responsablilty to not go, "ARG! BURN WITH FIRE RACIST!" on him. We just all get together and just completly prove him wrong. We can be passonite but not personal.

I mean there are pro-commuism, pro-aryan, and even pro-anarchy groups/policatl affiaities at college campuses. Why? because if they obey the law and don't obvisouly aren't attack the random people that pass by, they can say and promote whatever they want in a calm and collected manner. No matter how wrong or horriable it might sound. Heck the KKK is still around and still do speeches and whatnot, but does it really matter or mean they will convince anyone? No.

[sentinel28a]

The cure for hate speech is more free speech, just as the cure for rot is sunlight.

As long as it's not becoming abusive to other posters, then I say let it post. I love debating with other people. It's when people are figuratively screaming in my face that I'm an idiot that my inner troll makes a nasty appearance.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"If you can't be a good instructor, be a good example"

[Kii]

And then there's some people who feel easily harassed and offended or personally attacked and then report you incessantly until you're banned.
There are forums where people can handle the heat in the kitchen. I honestly feel that most people on the ACen forums are not thick-skinned (or mature) enough to handle most good political (or otherwise) debates in a reasonable way. Whether it's taking everything as a personal attack, or getting completely off-topic. Not only do most of those threads quickly become inane and painful to read, they also usually end up producing more enemies than friends.
Let the mods close whatever down until tempers cool. This is just that kind of forum, ya'll.

[delial]

I don't like the idea of such heated discussions either on this type of forum. I mean, people post controversial topics or replies and it tends to get out of hand. I'd be lying if I said I don't read the drama o.o but...yeah it's sketchy to decide how to go about allowing some things and when/where to draw lines.

[XenoBlade]

Kii got on a point i always bring up.

(too many thin-skinned people here. They get offended and butthurt with the drop of the hat. :/)

I love debating, but its not fun if someone goes crazy because i dont agree. Or stepped on a sensitive nerve

[minecraftsmurf]

*sighs gently* I know, I know, I said part of this in a different post and a different topic.

Any 'opinion' based topic will ultimately offend some individuals. Any 'political' based topic will ultimately offend some individuals

Therefore, as this is common knowledge, one would believe that the individuals whom decide to partake in such ‘topics’ would be prepared to face’ opinions’ that they may not necessarily agree with. Consequently, one would also believe they would know how to properly handle the situation instead of stomping their feet screaming foul play.

So, if ‘you’ as an individual who knows yourself better than any other person can tell by the “topic name” and / or “topic description” that you will be unable to maintain competence while engaging in that ‘topic’ simply do not ‘click’ it. It really is… that simple.