[Von]

I just gotta vent...

So I'm on the train home from work and it's one of the rare times I'm actually in uniform and this guy starts raising his voice to me telling me how he hates all the travel restrictions and "loss of freedoms" and blah. Like somehow I'm the individual responsible for it. It's ALL me!! After awhile I just look at him and say "Look man, I just worked the last 48 hours and I really don't give a sh*t what you think (or something close to that)." Which, in retrospect, probably wasn't the kindest or the best response to diffuse the situation. So he starts going off on how "people like you" (the military, I guess) are the cause of all the world's problems and this and that. So I'm tuning out because I've heard it all before and he sees me not listening and gets in my face right as a rail policemen walks into the car.

Oops.

So it takes some explaining to the cop and finally he's like "you want me to arrest him?" and I'm just staring at him. I finally shake my head and say "no just move him to another car I don't want to deal with this." The guy gets furious that he's the one that has to move and starts yelling at me calling me a fascist.

Sheesh, what the heck is wrong with people?


I don't understand...all I did was wake up Tuesday morning.


So because I'm in a great mood lets take a little poll for fun. Hehe.




Von

I cast the first vote...which clearly had to be All Von's fault and he's a jerk ;-)

This post has been edited by Von: 17 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

[The Fujoshi]

-throws two cents-

You know that wasn't the best thing you did. For people like that it's best to ignore. What happened if:

The cop didn't come?

He was insane and had a gun or a knife?

I don't know, had buddies that wanted to fight for giggles?

So I know people have hard days and get evil but if you see a jerk face it's better to suck in your pride and let it go. You're VERY lucky.

On Nato:

I hate the military and wars but it's a norm so I accept it and what it stands by and what the government does in terms of arms/etc. It's almost impossible to change the system and I don't think we will be sending presidents/etc. to other countries instead of our hard working men and vets anytime soon.

So I support it but they are clearly doing it wrong. Or need to redo it. Or fix it. Or something.

[KirbyFanOne]

Von, on 17 May 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I cast the first vote...which clearly had to be All Von's fault and he's a jerk ;-)

Now it's not going to be funny because you endorse it. Yeah I mad.

[Dark Stranger]

People nowadays just hate it when anything doesn't go there way. I would agree with the guy that alot of personal freedom has been taken away while you are traveling on public systems (trains, buses, planes) but I know it's not the individals fault. (except some of the TSA people. They are a bunch of (insert unkind words). I appauld you for basically telling the guy to shut up. People need to be taken down a peg nowadays. I never get those type of people when I'm not working. Always when I'm on the clock. *sigh*

[den]

[quote name='Von' timestamp='1337293292' post='1082170']
I just gotta vent...

[Nikku]

Yah, i'm a liberal, and not sorry for it but lashing out at people who arn't even responible is asnine. So, i'm sorry this probbly first year college hippy makes real liberals look bad.....want me to hit him with a paper fan for sad times?

[rondo]

Chicago, you have yourselves a fine NATO conference and all, ya hear. Keep those extra window panes close by.

[Von]

KirbyFanOne, on 17 May 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Now it's not going to be funny because you endorse it. Yeah I mad.

I was voting for the guy on the train since I doubt he's on the forums. ;-)

Nikku, on 18 May 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Yah, i'm a liberal, and not sorry for it but lashing out at people who arn't even responible is asnine. So, i'm sorry this probbly first year college hippy makes real liberals look bad.....want me to hit him with a paper fan for sad times?

Hey man, all jokes aside there is no reason you should ever have to be sorry for being a liberal at all...that's your choice and I completely respect it. Lol, I just don't like being blamed for the world's problems because I happen to wear a U.S. military uniform for a living let alone for someone to get in my face about it.

...and as for the fan, yeah clock him one...or seven.


...and the poll is looking likes it's gonna be my fault...whoops...sorry Chicago!

This post has been edited by Von: 18 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

[Jeff]

My two cents

The labels liberal and conservative divide us and are ultimately more destructive than constructive.

[Dark Stranger]

Jeff, on 18 May 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

My two cents

The labels liberal and conservative divide us and are ultimately more destructive than constructive.

Agreed to a point. They do divide us but there has to be some difference between the two. Like I myself am what I call a "fiscal conserveative". My views of how big a goverment should be and how personal finace should be handled is very conserative/republican. But my views on personal matters like abortion or weed usage is very liberal/democrat. But there isn't many people like me nor is there a person who I can elect that really is even close to me. So I choice to counted as a conserative because I believe goverment needs to be fixed. It also gives a person a understanding of who they are talking to. Now if we could actually debate instead of sticking our heads in the sand and not even hearing the other person we might get somewhere as a nation.

[redx1]

I got to work from home in my PJs today because of NATO.

I say bring it.

NATO-cation here we come!

[GITS SAC Motoko]

Dark Stranger, on 18 May 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Now if we could actually debate instead of sticking our heads in the sand and not even hearing the other person we might get somewhere as a nation.

*nods* yup. To add, I also think if we stopped having so much money back politics too (looking at you corrupt lobbying schemes, lobbying corporations and certain evil people of the top 1% who I don't even want to name! >:3). I feel without politics being a giant bidding war of money game, it would more lean into the time of getting what the general population of the people want (that is us ), instead of the chosen few rich people. I do think that dividing parties is a obstacle that does not have to be there...it does make things divided because it puts a label on something. And psychologically (no I have no research to back this, only my personal observations from learning) when we have a label, we subconsciously live up to that label. If we just, well, lived and did what's right for the nation as one and listened to the general population of people (that's us! ) I feel we'd actually get somewhere.I believe we all think alike more than we think we do. I also think money and religion need to stay out of politics.

Will this happen? hopefully.

end of my two cents.

This post has been edited by GITS SAC Motoko: 19 May 2012 - 09:20 AM

[Unlucky Slayer]

I am still trying to firgure out what the point of this NATO summit deal is when everyone of importance in NATO is at Camp David for the G8 Summit.

Edit: I voted the way I did to be part of the crowd. lol

This post has been edited by Unlucky Slayer: 19 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

[XenoBlade]

Do all hippies call everyone fascists? Lol i wonder how many people actually know what the fascist party consists of. Lol (don't get me started on the insanely stupid fear of socialism.) Tho heard it down hear that people are protesting. Lol kinda reminds me of the south park episode about the hippies. Lol

[Steam_Loli216]

That NATO ordeal almost got in my way on my flight to japan.

Sir, with all due respect, you are responsible 100%.

Have a fine navy day

[Visadin the insane]

Unlucky Slayer, on 19 May 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I am still trying to firgure out what the point of this NATO summit deal is when everyone of importance in NATO is at Camp David for the G8 Summit.

Edit: I voted the way I did to be part of the crowd. lol

i have no clue, all the news is talking about before, during and most likly after are the protesters. and it seem like there is petty mush every group that have a right to protest in this age is doing so now, we had people for health care, both physacal and mental. then we have ocapy, then rainbow push, anti war protesters who are the cops in first blood.


also i hate hipsters, i hate then more then any group of people in the history. i love furries, i am a brony, i respect hippies since that time of america did suck and that war was way more bullshit then iraq and afginistan together. i understand mostly where christens come from. ok maybe not the nazis but you get my point. hipsters make me puke, with their sarfs in middle of summer, glasses that are mostly fake, about as thin as rails like they only eat once a day and it all organic, think scott pillgrim should of won best phiture in the same yar as solcal network, incepion, and true grit. think everything past 2000's suck and everything from the 80's is golden, NEWSFLASH, 80's also brought us steve goutanberg, reagin, the garbage pale kids movie, and it also when freddy mercery died (the worst thing to happend to mankind IMO)

Hi cult cobana!

so really hipsters screw off, maybe daddy didn't hug you mush, or your mom asked you to do the dishes during power rangers, so that's why you like be be a douchbag to all that is good and right in the world. screw off and die in your studio apartment in logen square, becuase me, your family, your "friends", america, the world and historians will give a screw about you and your existince, i care more about the life of a aids infected zombie hittler who rapes orphens and eats unborn children then you. and i think hipsters need to be genoside if we want humanty to envole into what we can and should be.

and that may be a bit too far, but i really screwing hate hipsters. and i pity the man who post below me. now i am off to play some queen.

This post has been edited by Visadin the insane: 20 May 2012 - 03:11 AM

[BreBre716]

I'm trying to figure out the point of protesting NATO.

[GITS SAC Motoko]

^A lot of people protest what the leaders that are apart of NATO want which is capitalism. A lot of protesters are against the violence that NATO supports like invading other countries like Lybia, Syria, etc. Some believe in the conspiracy theories surronding NATO (all you need to do is go to infowars.com and you'll see all about it) or give the movies Zeitgeist a watch and that will tell you a lot too. And then you have some silly people in there creating violence and ruining the peaceful protest Occupy actually is. There's a variety of reasons why people are protesting.

[BreBre716]

GITS SAC Motoko, on 20 May 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

^A lot of people protest what the leaders that are apart of NATO want which is capitalism. A lot of protesters are against the violence that NATO supports like invading other countries like Lybia, Syria, etc. Some believe in the conspiracy theories surronding NATO (all you need to do is go to infowars.com and you'll see all about it) or give the movies Zeitgeist a watch and that will tell you a lot too. And then you have some silly people in there creating violence and ruining the peaceful protest Occupy actually is. There's a variety of reasons why people are protesting.

That all seems rather discombobulated. Those protesting don't really seem to have a unified goal. There are several people from my college who are protesting today. My school got shut down a month early because Columbia College chicago is right in the red zone. So I asked the guy from my school what the point was and he like you mentioned there are alot of reasons and vary from person to person. He said he personally thinks NATO is a war machine and about Syria and the whole thing with the war in Afgahistan. But when I asked him what was the overall common goal and what are they trying to accomplish he didn't even answer me

But I thought NATO was a democratic type organization that promote peaceful solutions to problems but doesn't indeed have military power and thy have that whole if you threaten 1 of us then you threaten all of us thing. I'm no political genius and I don't follow politics very well. I just wanna know why protest Capitalism ? It works, It's unfair in some ways but what else do people want? Plus isn't America not even full on Capitalist with how we run things? It's a Mix form . :/


Btw. I see you around on the forums alot and I saw your Major Motoko Kusanagi. You were great. My friend was also the major Friday and Saturday , I pointed you out to her and she wanted to take a pic with you but she was kinda shy because she thought her "night before Acen last minute Major Cosplay" that I helped her do last minute wasn't all that good. you may have seen her around.
http://sphotos.xx.fb...597880130_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fb...488678319_n.jpg

This post has been edited by BreBre716: 20 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

[GITS SAC Motoko]

BreBre716, on 20 May 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

That all seems rather discombobulated. Those protesting don't really seem to have a unified goal. There are several people from my college who are protesting today. My school got shut down a month early because Columbia College chicago is right in the red zone. So I asked the guy from my school what the point was and he like you mentioned there are alot of reasons and vary from person to person. He said he personally thinks NATO is a war machine and about Syria and the whole thing with the war in Afgahistan. But when I asked him what was the overall common goal and what are they trying to accomplish he didn't even answer me

But I thought NATO was a democratic type organization that promote peaceful solutions to problems but doesn't indeed have military power and thy have that whole if you threaten 1 of us then you threaten all of us thing. I'm no political genius and I don't follow politics very well. I just wanna know why protest Capitalism ? It works, It's unfair in some ways but what else do people want? Plus isn't America not even full on Capitalist with how we run things? It's a Mix form . :/


Btw. I see you around on the forums alot and I saw your Major Motoko Kusanagi. You were great. My friend was also the major Friday and Saturday , I pointed you out to her and she wanted to take a pic with you but she was kinda shy because she thought her "night before Acen last minute Major Cosplay" that I helped her do last minute wasn't all that good. you may have seen her around.
http://sphotos.xx.fb...597880130_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fb...488678319_n.jpg

Heres the thing in the first part: Occupy is not supposed to be a ran organization since it's trying to do complete democracy--ran by people and voted with majority. (I am apart of the movement and have occupied before it got nuts this is why i know). NATO is seen to many as a war machine, and that's a lot of reasons why people don't like them. there are a lot of stories that go around about them, and it gets into some secret stuff like Skull and bones, the Bilderburg Group, big names like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and other rich people backing government officials. And the common goal of occupy is (at least what i have gathered) is the welfare and equality of the wealth to the 99% (those not in the top 1% of the wealthy). Like for example, they are against lobbying in politics to pass bills (like government officials being backed by oil companies, corporations, etc) wanting to have the same rights as the wealthier one percent or they having the same rights as us (like being denied for medical insurance, not making high wages) and fighting against "profits over people" which is corporations taking more profits and hurting others in the process to make more money (like outsourcing making things overseas like Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Nike, etc). People protest capitalism since they do not think it's fair. I'm not sure if you're into reading stuff but it's a lot of political philosophy about it, since capitalism is such a HUGE paradigm or basis of our economy, (which the winner takes all and people fight to be on top and make the most profit) and it makes the situation of the more money you have, the more power you have. People don't like that so they protest it, since they think it is unethical and such. Protesters want equality for all. Not communism--but equality. The problem is people take it out of hand since Occupy is PEACEFUL NOT VIOLENT. People get violent and ruin what they are protesting which is against violence, war, (and many say war is money since corporations make MILLIONS on war materials and oil which runs the majority of oil materials) When I went to Occupy when it started all we did was sit with our signs and talked and cheered. No violence, no hitting and those who got violent were kicked out of the street. People also get angry and a big reason why I and my friends stopped going was that the police were getting out of hand and hitting and pepper spraying people and lots of crazy stuff happened (you can see a lot on youtube) if you wanna talk more about it feel free to PM me I don't wanna make you read a novel hehehe :3 hope this helps. sorry if my grammar isn't perfect I'm at work writing this trying to be quick so if i sound jumbled, please pardon. *bows*

Awwww, well thank you! *blush* I appreciate that a lot! =^.^= Aw you should have totally came and said hi! I would have loved totally got a pic with both of you! Any Motoko copplayer is amazing in my book! My dream is to create an army of Motokos :3. I didn''t see you two sadly though, wish I did!!!! you should have totally come to the photo shoot as well! We only had three people including me XD Well next year you should
And your friend looks great! I think you guys did a great job especially in short time! Love the color of the wig~ but if you ever wanna chat talk GITS/Motoko/meet up at ACEN hit me up! I won't be retiring Motoko for a LOOOONG time. :3

[BreBre716]

GITS SAC Motoko, on 20 May 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Heres the thing in the first part: Occupy is not supposed to be a ran organization since it's trying to do complete democracy--ran by people and voted with majority. (I am apart of the movement and have occupied before it got nuts this is why i know). NATO is seen to many as a war machine, and that's a lot of reasons why people don't like them. there are a lot of stories that go around about them, and it gets into some secret stuff like Skull and bones, the Bilderburg Group, big names like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and other rich people backing government officials. And the common goal of occupy is (at least what i have gathered) is the welfare and equality of the wealth to the 99% (those not in the top 1% of the wealthy). Like for example, they are against lobbying in politics to pass bills (like government officials being backed by oil companies, corporations, etc) wanting to have the same rights as the wealthier one percent or they having the same rights as us (like being denied for medical insurance, not making high wages) and fighting against "profits over people" which is corporations taking more profits and hurting others in the process to make more money (like outsourcing making things overseas like Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Nike, etc). People protest capitalism since they do not think it's fair. I'm not sure if you're into reading stuff but it's a lot of political philosophy about it, since capitalism is such a HUGE paradigm or basis of our economy, (which the winner takes all and people fight to be on top and make the most profit) and it makes the situation of the more money you have, the more power you have. People don't like that so they protest it, since they think it is unethical and such. Protesters want equality for all. Not communism--but equality. The problem is people take it out of hand since Occupy is PEACEFUL NOT VIOLENT. People get violent and ruin what they are protesting which is against violence, war, (and many say war is money since corporations make MILLIONS on war materials and oil which runs the majority of oil materials) When I went to Occupy when it started all we did was sit with our signs and talked and cheered. No violence, no hitting and those who got violent were kicked out of the street. People also get angry and a big reason why I and my friends stopped going was that the police were getting out of hand and hitting and pepper spraying people and lots of crazy stuff happened (you can see a lot on youtube) if you wanna talk more about it feel free to PM me I don't wanna make you read a novel hehehe :3 hope this helps. sorry if my grammar isn't perfect I'm at work writing this trying to be quick so if i sound jumbled, please pardon. *bows*

Awwww, well thank you! *blush* I appreciate that a lot! =^.^= Aw you should have totally came and said hi! I would have loved totally got a pic with both of you! Any Motoko copplayer is amazing in my book! My dream is to create an army of Motokos :3. I didn''t see you two sadly though, wish I did!!!! you should have totally come to the photo shoot as well! We only had three people including me XD Well next year you should
And your friend looks great! I think you guys did a great job especially in short time! Love the color of the wig~ but if you ever wanna chat talk GITS/Motoko/meet up at ACEN hit me up! I won't be retiring Motoko for a LOOOONG time. :3

1st part: Ah okay everything makes a bit more sense now. I was just trying figure out what the heck was going on since even though i didn't protest I supported the Original Occupy Movement with the whole 99% thing in occupy Chicago and when it got bigger Occupy whereever else, The NATO thing was a bit UN-settling to me but now I get it. Thank you very much

2nd part: We did this the night before. She originally was gonna just not do anything but she said "BRE WAIT! YOUR PURPLE WIG!!! I CAN BE THE MAJOR!" and I'm like.. "okay?" So we just rummaged through stuff she had in her closet and BOOM we got her Variant of Motoko and I'll definitely hit ya up for chatting and what not

[GITS SAC Motoko]

BreBre716, on 20 May 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

1st part: Ah okay everything makes a bit more sense now. I was just trying figure out what the heck was going on since even though i didn't protest I supported the Original Occupy Movement with the whole 99% thing in occupy Chicago and when it got bigger Occupy whereever else, The NATO thing was a bit UN-settling to me but now I get it. Thank you very much

2nd part: We did this the night before. She originally was gonna just not do anything but she said "BRE WAIT! YOUR PURPLE WIG!!! I CAN BE THE MAJOR!" and I'm like.. "okay?" So we just rummaged through stuff she had in her closet and BOOM we got her Variant of Motoko and I'll definitely hit ya up for chatting and what not

Yeah and a lot of protesters (not saying all) are NATO only occupiers doing this for years...and sometimes things get crazy. Just when people question you remember Occupy is PEACEFUL. They are not violent.

that's awesome though. :3 and it actually works Motoko can wear anything and has proved this. I think you both did a nice job. but yeah hit me up (and she can too ) if you wanna chat!

[sentinel28a]

GITS SAC Motoko, on 20 May 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yeah and a lot of protesters (not saying all) are NATO only occupiers doing this for years...and sometimes things get crazy. Just when people question you remember Occupy is PEACEFUL. They are not violent.

that's awesome though. :3 and it actually works Motoko can wear anything and has proved this. I think you both did a nice job. but yeah hit me up (and she can too ) if you wanna chat!

The Port of Oakland would like to have a word with you, once they finish cleaning up what Occupy Oakland did to the place.

Ever watch "The Day After"? NATO made sure that didn't become a documentary. When crap happens in the world, people scream for help. NATO is usually the first one to show up. Got a tsunami? Guess who flies in the doctors, the aid workers, the construction engineers, and just willing hands. Ruled by a genocidal maniac(s)? NATO is your best bet to depose them...unless, of course, you like to be killed in front of your loved ones by Bashir Assad, Muammar Qaddafi, Saddam Hussein, and the Taliban.

I come from a family of military men (and women). My dad served in the USAF when it was not kewl to serve in the military. We lived less than 30 minutes flying time from the Iron Curtain, while in Germany We had evacuation drills that we knew would never work. My dad was told that his life expectancy if WWIII broke out was 15 minutes. And that's a conventional war.

No one hates war more than a soldier, because they are the ones who will pay the price in blood. You can hate wars, you can hate NATO--that's your right. But you have that right because a lot of butts have died since 1775 to allow you to hate them.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[Dark Stranger]

Visadin the insane, on 20 May 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

i have no clue, all the news is talking about before, during and most likly after are the protesters. and it seem like there is petty mush every group that have a right to protest in this age is doing so now, we had people for health care, both physacal and mental. then we have ocapy, then rainbow push, anti war protesters who are the cops in first blood.


also i hate hipsters, i hate then more then any group of people in the history. i love furries, i am a brony, i respect hippies since that time of america did suck and that war was way more bullshit then iraq and afginistan together. i understand mostly where christens come from. ok maybe not the nazis but you get my point. hipsters make me puke, with their sarfs in middle of summer, glasses that are mostly fake, about as thin as rails like they only eat once a day and it all organic, think scott pillgrim should of won best phiture in the same yar as solcal network, incepion, and true grit. think everything past 2000's suck and everything from the 80's is golden, NEWSFLASH, 80's also brought us steve goutanberg, reagin, the garbage pale kids movie, and it also when freddy mercery died (the worst thing to happend to mankind IMO)

Hi cult cobana!

so really hipsters screw off, maybe daddy didn't hug you mush, or your mom asked you to do the dishes during power rangers, so that's why you like be be a douchbag to all that is good and right in the world. screw off and die in your studio apartment in logen square, becuase me, your family, your "friends", america, the world and historians will give a screw about you and your existince, i care more about the life of a aids infected zombie hittler who rapes orphens and eats unborn children then you. and i think hipsters need to be genoside if we want humanty to envole into what we can and should be.

and that may be a bit too far, but i really screwing hate hipsters. and i pity the man who post below me. now i am off to play some queen.

*pushes Like button*

GITS SAC Motoko, on 20 May 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Heres the thing in the first part: Occupy is not supposed to be a ran organization since it's trying to do complete democracy--ran by people and voted with majority. (I am apart of the movement and have occupied before it got nuts this is why i know). NATO is seen to many as a war machine, and that's a lot of reasons why people don't like them. there are a lot of stories that go around about them, and it gets into some secret stuff like Skull and bones, the Bilderburg Group, big names like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and other rich people backing government officials. And the common goal of occupy is (at least what i have gathered) is the welfare and equality of the wealth to the 99% (those not in the top 1% of the wealthy). Like for example, they are against lobbying in politics to pass bills (like government officials being backed by oil companies, corporations, etc) wanting to have the same rights as the wealthier one percent or they having the same rights as us (like being denied for medical insurance, not making high wages) and fighting against "profits over people" which is corporations taking more profits and hurting others in the process to make more money (like outsourcing making things overseas like Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Nike, etc). People protest capitalism since they do not think it's fair. I'm not sure if you're into reading stuff but it's a lot of political philosophy about it, since capitalism is such a HUGE paradigm or basis of our economy, (which the winner takes all and people fight to be on top and make the most profit) and it makes the situation of the more money you have, the more power you have. People don't like that so they protest it, since they think it is unethical and such. Protesters want equality for all. Not communism--but equality. The problem is people take it out of hand since Occupy is PEACEFUL NOT VIOLENT. People get violent and ruin what they are protesting which is against violence, war, (and many say war is money since corporations make MILLIONS on war materials and oil which runs the majority of oil materials) When I went to Occupy when it started all we did was sit with our signs and talked and cheered. No violence, no hitting and those who got violent were kicked out of the street. People also get angry and a big reason why I and my friends stopped going was that the police were getting out of hand and hitting and pepper spraying people and lots of crazy stuff happened (you can see a lot on youtube) if you wanna talk more about it feel free to PM me I don't wanna make you read a novel hehehe :3 hope this helps. sorry if my grammar isn't perfect I'm at work writing this trying to be quick so if i sound jumbled, please pardon. *bows*

Ummm. I can't agree with that. I think it started out peaceful maybe, but without any sort of motive, clear goal, or really even a group of people to identify with, "OCCUPY" ushered in many that ruined the whole thing. Who? Well first there is the anarcists that just want everything destroyed to restart (which does sound nice sometimes but of course not a real option.) Then there is the people that hate capitalism, the people that actually just want money out of poitics (something I agree with), The college kids and others who just want everything for free and have the rich pay for it, then the even younger kids that just want to say "they were part of something big, that history will remember them by." That's why whenever you see videos of these people being interviewed their answears are never the same one person to the next.

Honestly the worst thing that really shows us divided right now is OCCUPY vs. NATO. You have a group of angry Americans who in there mind are going against a group that is all about hidden funds and war mongering. While on the other side you have people who support our country and our troops and peace getting attacked by a bunch of angry americans who just want socialism. It's a big mess right now.

[GITS SAC Motoko]

sentinel28a, on 20 May 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

The Port of Oakland would like to have a word with you, once they finish cleaning up what Occupy Oakland did to the place.Ever watch "The Day After"? NATO made sure that didn't become a documentary. When crap happens in the world, people scream for help. NATO is usually the first one to show up. Got a tsunami? Guess who flies in the doctors, the aid workers, the construction engineers, and just willing hands. Ruled by a genocidal maniac(s)? NATO is your best bet to depose them...unless, of course, you like to be killed in front of your loved ones by Bashir Assad, Muammar Qaddafi, Saddam Hussein, and the Taliban.I come from a family of military men (and women). My dad served in the USAF when it was not kewl to serve in the military. We lived less than 30 minutes flying time from the Iron Curtain, while in Germany We had evacuation drills that we knew would never work. My dad was told that his life expectancy if WWIII broke out was 15 minutes. And that's a conventional war. No one hates war more than a soldier, because they are the ones who will pay the price in blood. You can hate wars, you can hate NATO--that's your right. But you have that right because a lot of butts have died since 1775 to allow you to hate them.Ben Da Mad Irishman

Occupy Oakland was a mess. When Occupy first came up like Dark Stranger said, it was peaceful. And I'm referring to the first rising of the Occupy group on Wall Street and the one shortly after the developed in Chicago. We were peaceful.

I respect your family for serving. But here's something. I never said I hated NATO. I didn't even say my opinion on them. So that is completely unknown to all but me at the moment.

Dark Stranger, on 21 May 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

*pushes Like button*Ummm. I can't agree with that. I think it started out peaceful maybe, but without any sort of motive, clear goal, or really even a group of people to identify with, "OCCUPY" ushered in many that ruined the whole thing. Who? Well first there is the anarcists that just want everything destroyed to restart (which does sound nice sometimes but of course not a real option.) Then there is the people that hate capitalism, the people that actually just want money out of poitics (something I agree with), The college kids and others who just want everything for free and have the rich pay for it, then the even younger kids that just want to say "they were part of something big, that history will remember them by." That's why whenever you see videos of these people being interviewed their answears are never the same one person to the next.Honestly the worst thing that really shows us divided right now is OCCUPY vs. NATO. You have a group of angry Americans who in there mind are going against a group that is all about hidden funds and war mongering. While on the other side you have people who support our country and our troops and peace getting attacked by a bunch of angry americans who just want socialism. It's a big mess right now.

I agree, A lot of people ruined it for those who had positive intent with it. (Again what I said was what I personally observed from going and talking to people. Everyone has different views of how they see and what their main motive is.) I remember when I was down there a lot of people like the ones that you say ruined it (like violent angry people) came on the street and we told them to go away since they were ruining our peaceful protest. A lot of people down there right now are anti-NATO people that have been doing this for years. A lot of them aren't even apart of Occupy. Though when I talked to a lot of the occupiers a lot of them who ranged from college students, to PhD in economics to teachers (most were actually educated people, and this was when Occupy had been in effect for like, 20 days or so?) told me the main reason they were there was they wanted money out of politics and they did not like the large amount of power corporations had. So I guess it just depends when you went down there or when in the movement things happen. But if you see interviews with a lot of people affiliated with Occupy (like interviews on Democracy Now!) they stress they're peaceful. Yeah somethings get out of hand, but there's always "that one guy" that ruins it for all and gives a bad name to the situation.

[XenoBlade]

Lion King meme on Oakland. Nuff said. Lol

Also gotta love anger channeled at the wrong people. Protesting is gonna look unintelligent if people keep doing the stupid crap they are doing now.

[sentinel28a]

A lot of protesters are against the violence that NATO supports like invading other countries like Lybia, Syria, etc.

I may have misconstrued your remarks, Motoko, but it sounds like that you're saying NATO supports violence. I was saying that it has actually done more to prevent violence in its 60 year history than even the UN. And given the rulers of Libya and Syria (see: Qaddafi, Moammar; Assad, Bashir), I think deposing genocidal maniacs (see: Hussein, Saddam) is a pretty good use of violence.

This is the problem I have with the Occupy movement. What exactly does it want? Corporations out of politics? That's not going to happen. Ever. Corporations are made of people, and people want things. People have the right to lobby for their rights (AARP is the largest lobbying organization in the US, for instance).

Redistribution of wealth? Confiscating the wealth of the 1% is not going to improve the economy or create jobs. In fact, it's going to make it worse. I agree that the billion-dollar golden parachutes need to go. But it is the 1% that have always been the engines of commerce that create the jobs. Steve Jobs was a member of the 1%. Franklin Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy were members of the .001%. All three men created between them thousands, possibly millions of jobs. It's no crime to be rich, as long as you do it honestly.

Jobs? Camping in Grant Park is not going to get you a job. The degree in English Literature you paid $55,000 for is not going to get you a job. In fact, college might not get you a job. But the people who are screaming in the streets that no one has jobs for Underwater Basketweaving degrees have no one to blame but themselves.

Intrusive government that's too big? I agree with that one...as does the Tea Party. Join us, we have cookies.

The simple fact is that the free ride is over. Every government in the world is flat broke, and politicians are trying to kick the can down the road to keep their own jobs. We can pull ourselves out of this hole we're in, but we're going to have to sacrifice, reform, and kick out politcos who are more interested in fleecing us than helping us. It will be tough on everyone.

We can do it, but it's not going to done screaming in the streets, flying red flags, wearing Che shirts and generally making a horse's rear of oneself. Maybe most Occupiers don't do that, but they're not doing anything but spinning their wheels.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[TaiyakiOni]

All I can say is, as an employee in the transportation business at O'Hare Int'l Airport who goes to airplanes, deals with Customs and Border Protection officers daily and has to pass through numerous security check points throughout the day it was a bit nerve wrecking to be driving around the airport on the air field and doing my usual work at the airport.

Secret Service and armed guards everywhere.

Police posted at every turn and intersection to, from and at the airport.

The sheer madness of the back up of airplanes causing 290 Rush hour traffic jams on the airfield. They rerouted, delayed and all around screwed with a lot of flights for the NATO summit attendees to fly out.

Not complaining, just saying, that's what I saw, and that's what happened.

I think I broke like, 3 traffic laws swerving the car around the airfield to get to where I needed to go and the aviation police didn't care since they were so preoccupied with keep eyes out for unmarked vehicles.

[GITS SAC Motoko]

sentinel28a, on 21 May 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

A lot of protesters are against the violence that NATO supports like invading other countries like Lybia, Syria, etc.

I may have misconstrued your remarks, Motoko, but it sounds like that you're saying NATO supports violence. I was saying that it has actually done more to prevent violence in its 60 year history than even the UN. And given the rulers of Libya and Syria (see: Qaddafi, Moammar; Assad, Bashir), I think deposing genocidal maniacs (see: Hussein, Saddam) is a pretty good use of violence.

This is the problem I have with the Occupy movement. What exactly does it want? Corporations out of politics? That's not going to happen. Ever. Corporations are made of people, and people want things. People have the right to lobby for their rights (AARP is the largest lobbying organization in the US, for instance).

Redistribution of wealth? Confiscating the wealth of the 1% is not going to improve the economy or create jobs. In fact, it's going to make it worse. I agree that the billion-dollar golden parachutes need to go. But it is the 1% that have always been the engines of commerce that create the jobs. Steve Jobs was a member of the 1%. Franklin Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy were members of the .001%. All three men created between them thousands, possibly millions of jobs. It's no crime to be rich, as long as you do it honestly.

Jobs? Camping in Grant Park is not going to get you a job. The degree in English Literature you paid $55,000 for is not going to get you a job. In fact, college might not get you a job. But the people who are screaming in the streets that no one has jobs for Underwater Basketweaving degrees have no one to blame but themselves.

Intrusive government that's too big? I agree with that one...as does the Tea Party. Join us, we have cookies.

The simple fact is that the free ride is over. Every government in the world is flat broke, and politicians are trying to kick the can down the road to keep their own jobs. We can pull ourselves out of this hole we're in, but we're going to have to sacrifice, reform, and kick out politcos who are more interested in fleecing us than helping us. It will be tough on everyone.

We can do it, but it's not going to done screaming in the streets, flying red flags, wearing Che shirts and generally making a horse's rear of oneself. Maybe most Occupiers don't do that, but they're not doing anything but spinning their wheels.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

I do see what you are saying. Now, I am speaking for my friends and I (who have occupied with me and what we think, I'm not representing everyone obviously, but this is merely the general opinion of what we say when asked about why we are apart of occupy)

We don't want corrupt lobbying and we see it as unfairly ruling the government and do not want politics to be a bidding numbers game as "the one with the most money is voted in" by being more known about like through ads and such. A huge part of lobbying we don't like is the medical field lobbying like with the AMA, PHARMA and AHIP. Passing bills to keep insurance companies denying people like me actually because my mom and I have a pre-existing condition that we can't control (it's genetic and no, it's not obesity). (No, the new health care bill did not fix the pre-exisiting condition problem. You can still be denied but instead of the company going free, they are fined instead per day. But in some cases, it's cheaper for them to be fined than cover your medical costs). Or drug companies lobbying to make conditions where profits can be at the highest and for even government standards of screening drugs to be more lenient to get drugs on the market NOW. Personally I think this is what happened with Vioxx and Yaz/Yasmin/Ocella--not enough clinical trials to show long term or more side effects.

The problem that I and my friends have is that why do big wigs have to make so much money? Why isn't 1 billion dollars enough? Why do you have to make 500 billion dollars in profits? Why not use that money to increase wages of workers, use that money to stop outsourcing jobs to China and other nations and give even MORE jobs to people here in the United States? Or use that money to give workers who do not have a lot of benefits (like insurance) those benefits? Why do profits have to be so high? When I see "share the wealth" that is what comes to my head and also my friends in the Occupy club we have at school.

When it comes to jobs, I believe that outsourcing to other nations is a huge blame for that. Like why aren't Apple products/computers/shoes/clothes made in the United States? To keep prices low, or to avoid the losing of money to maximize profit to pay little wage to the workers? That is what I question. And with college degrees like you said, yeah it's the people's choice to choose what they major in, but I do think that outsourcing a lot of things (heck even Radiology is being outsourced to other countries!) is a big factor in that taking away jobs people could have.

One thing with the tea party is that is is different from Occupy (how I and my friends see it) a lot (not saying all) of the tea party has a strong view for total free market economics. The occupiers that I know among my friends and close people I know we are curious to discover and think about changes that can be made to our free market capitalist system--just a different way of running things. We discuss this a lot in our club and I'm having a hard time remembering my club advisor brought up some political philosophers that talked about things like this and I am having a hard time remembering their names (since we read a lot of different texts talking about this). I think Heath and Potter wrote on something like this.

great debating, by the way. im enjoying this.

[Dark Stranger]

I totally agree on the coporations out of polictics. Could you image who would really be a front runner if rommey didn't have coporations backing him or obama having all of holloywood backing him and it was all determinted by what private citizans contribute. (course the owners of companies are "private citizans too I guess and could donate....anyway) I think it would be very different enviorment.