[Scott]

I was in the lower dome area. It was really crowded. After the lights started flashing, it didn't really look any different (didn't notice at first it was the red fire alarm boxes flashing). I found it odd there was no alarm sound. At first I stood there for a minute until a staff persons said it was a fire alarm and to exit... So my suggestion would be a fire alarm sound in the lower dome as soon as the lights start going off.

[davebb]

I've had one person give me a link of a picture they had of the mess. If you have your pictures of the event posted (like how crowds were gathered and other possible problem areas) please send me a PM to the picture and where you were at and relative time (during evacuation, during the readmission, etc) so I can gauge a time of when the picture was taken. I did see several people with cameras and iPads taking photos and recording.

To those who have commented back. I want to thank you all for the honest feedback. Soon as I feel that the feedback seems complete I will have it all compiled for upper management to determine any areas that need improvement. Again, thank you all for your time in providing your "view" with me.

[BreBre716]

I was on the ninth floor in my room with a couple of friends and we didn't think the alarm was something serious, we thought it was from a party but a friend of ours went outside and said he saw people leaving. We headed for the stairs on the right side from our room 980 but The staircase was full of people and wasn't moving. we were stuck there for a few minutes before our friend who initially went outside the room to check for the alarming sound decided we needed to backtrack to another stair case. I didnt know what was going on to have that staircase clogged up but if it were a serious fire there couldve been causalities because of that clogged staircase .

This post has been edited by BreBre716: 10 May 2012 - 06:41 AM

[JujuFox]

I have an album of the pictures we took during this incident here. I made a topic about it a while back, but no one wanted to share their pictures!

[Jguy]

I was between the red bar and the hotel check in desk when I saw flashes of light in the upper floors, no audible alarm. At first I thought it was camera flashes from the upper floors, but as I looked a bit closer I noticed that they were way too uniform to be cameras. After about 5 seconds I figured it out and radioed in to Convention Operations that there was a fire alarm in the main area of the hotel. Shortly after that, the lobby level started to flash its alarms and the sirens finally kicked in.

Between the time I noticed the flashes in the upper floors (the elevators were still running at this time) to the time the Lobby level lights and all the sirens started going was between 10 to 15 seconds, if I recall correctly.

At the time that I noticed, I didn't think anything of it, but we were met by an on-shift IRT operative who then informed us to start evac. I switched to IRT channel and was with my friend, who is an IRT operative who was off-shift. We began evacuating the upper floors on the northwest corner of the building while listening to the IRT channel start to give orders to operatives. The hotel staff, red-bar staff and security guards of the hotel were not requiring attendees that were in the red bar to evacuate; I had to show my ID to the security guard while the alarm was going off to get into the redbar to get the people out of the red-bar that were taking pictures of the evacuation. >.<

After the last attendee was through the stairwell (for note, 6: The bottom of the NE stairwell of the hotel had approximately 1 inch of water at the very bottom. I am thankful I didn't slip but it's at the bottom of a fire evacuation route, at the bottom of some stairs, no less), I followed behind and out the front door of the hotel.

Still listening to IRT channel, there was much chatter about it not being all clear. After about 2 minutes of myself being outside, I did hear the call from dispatch "IT'S NOT CLEAR. DO NOT LET PEOPLE BACK IN" and a rush of people from the other side of the parking lot started heading back into the hotel. We tried our best to stop them but it was no use (we were on the Main programming side of the parking lot, the people that started heading back in were on the other side). Shortly after that, I did hear the all clear from IRT dispatch to let them back in but it came with some doubt from dispatch. After heading back in, my friend and I attempted to stop the wave of people from running in Main Programming (a lot of people ran down that hallway in a full sprint). We also worked on keeping the front entrance of the hotel clear by keeping traffic moving and asking people not to stop in, around or in front of the doorway.

That's...about it.

[rrtycoon2]

"Then I realized I forgot my phone in the room, and the delivery guy was going to call me when he arrived at the hotel, so I went back to our room to get it and left my husband waiting for me in the lobby(since there was a lot of open space I could find him easily by the check-in counters). As I was trying to get past all the people evacuating down the stairs back into the lobby as staff member blocked me (not IRT) and told me I had to go down the stairs out the emergency exit. I told her my husband is waiting for me in the lobby right outside the hallway. She didn't listen and again blocked me saying I had to exit out the stairwell."

"I'm not sure why she wouldn't listen to me the first time."

"SUMMARY: Staff wouldn't listen and almost separated me from my husband who was waiting for me in the lobby"



I've had a phobia surrounding fire alarms since I was very young, which has led me to assist and learn more about fire drills and evacuation procedures (mostly so I could avoid being surprised by an alarm). Thus, I have two comments about what you did and experienced during the evacuation (and please understand that I don't mean to single you out here, but your experience brings up two major points I feel need to be addressed):

1. Going back to your room was a major mistake - This point actually demonstrates issues both with evacuees and staff (both ACen and Hyatt) guiding the evacuation. You should never ever ever move back inside of a building that is being evacuated, and a staff member should have stopped you from doing so. The simple fact is that staff can never truly know where a fire is, how far it's spread, or what the condition of the structure being evacuated is. To be fair, you were obviously under-informed about the situation, as you stated that you weren't sure if the building was being completely evacuated, but this is still a matter that staff should have attended to immediately.

2. The staff member who told you to leave down the nearby stairwell was absolutely right in stopping you - The simple premise behind an evacuation is to get everyone out as quickly as possible and via the nearest safe route. If the emergency exit was the nearest route, then that is the route the staff is supposed to instruct evacuees to take. Again this is to avoid having people remain in the building too long, congest the normal exits (which people have a tendency to head towards regardless of the situation), and pass through what has to be assumed by all involved to be a dangerous structure. Just as you were concerned about your husband in the lobby, the staff should be, and was, concerned about you (at the same time, I'm disturbed by the fact that your husband was still standing where you left him, and hadn't been ushered out of the hotel).

I know that it felt like the actions of the staff were a major inconvenience, but you (and others reading this) need to understand that your life is the highest priority, and the staff is supposed to consider that above any material possessions or other inconveniences you might face. A friend of mine put it best to me back in high school: "Better to be stuck out in the cold rain with nothing than stuck in a burning building with your jewelry box"

Again, I don't mean to single you out personally (as those people who flat out ignored the alarm and stayed on their balconies were of exceptionally poor judgment) but I felt these things needed to be pointed out.

Perhaps it would be wise to include a page on safety tips and basic evacuation protocol in future program guides (it's at least as important as the guide on avoiding "con-plague" that was included).

[JujuFox]

rrtycoon2,

Yes, I know I shouldn't have gone back(I remember fire drill days and how you're supposed to leave everything behind like purses and backpacks), but like I said before no one was telling us we had to evacuate. The alarms said that there was an emergency, but we're used to false alarms(our apt had some issues) and figured it might have been a mistake or a prank or whatever. Even with all the people pouring out of the lobby down the stairs I didn't see any IRT/staff guiding or directing them. Guests were still in the Red Bar like it was no big deal, and staff behind the desks were just standing around watching. I believe that perhaps since we were on the lobby level we were some of the first people to leave our room, as no one was evacuating down the stairwell by our room at that time. It was only until I grabbed my phone and left the room that a staff member was guiding people down... I think that person was actually JGuy after reading their post. Sorry about that JGuy if that was you I yelled at!

Also, yes, my husband was still waiting in the lobby by the desks twiddling his thumbs when I came back and got him! He is pretty dang tall, so idk how anyone could miss him.

I made mistakes, but had I left my hubby behind he might have still been in the lobby waiting, or worse he might have tried to go back into the room to find me, or panicked if someone tried to usher him out without me.

Evacuation procedures would be a nice addition to the ACen guide, but with the foul aroma of con plague that permeated throughout the weekend despite the blurb about bathing and hygiene, I'm not sure everyone would read it and/or follow it in an emergency situation. Sometimes people panic, like I did when I realized I left my phone charging on the nightstand, and make poor decisions.

[davebb]

I am going to be suggesting that some sort of procedure be put in the program, even if just like a small half page of a quick explanation of what to do during such emergencies. I would also suggest, even though it may or may not get in the program, is to create for your family a location that you are sure you can get to in an emergency in case of fire in Concenter or hotel. Especially those of you with kids. Also will help in situations for when there is no evacuation emergency but a personal emergency such as your child getting lost. When you get to the convention, find a place in BOTH the hotel and the exhibit hall that you can show your child to wait for you if they get lost, some use the sculpture in the hotel. Also remember during an emergency like a fire or severe weather cell phone use may be limited because of the number of people that are on a system at the same time and then then panicked parents trying to find their kid or friends trying to find friends. Always have a fallback if you lose communications with each other on where you will meet at.

[davebb]

In addition, I plan to keep this thread open and unlocked until Memorial Day. The day after I start vacation from my normal job and I'll be collecting all this feedback. I'll still accept messages but via PM or email only, but the thread itself will be locked with a note on how to reach me.

[obakasan]

As we on Exhibit Space were still finishing up some "stuff" some of us were still in the DESCC when we got a call (phone I believe) notifying us of the fire evacuation. So we wisely stayed put until the all clear was confirmed.

We do have some evac and post-evac/re-entry procedures in our Department Manual and the at-con Staff Manual that I can share with you (davebb). An actual "event" such as this will give us an opportunity to review and update/share so we welcome some official input. We have tried to define an "official" chain of command (in relation to ES/DESCC. not the convention as a whole) in terms of dealing with re-entry especially as we deal with ACen staff, Artists, Exhibitors/vendors, and attendees so we feel there needs to be a defined "order of entry" when returning to the center. The safety and well-being of all individuals who come into contact with ACen is "Priority One." (A "Please Teacher" anime reference...)

[Scott]

davebb, on 09 May 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

I've had one person give me a link of a picture they had of the mess. If you have your pictures of the event posted (like how crowds were gathered and other possible problem areas) please send me a PM to the picture and where you were at and relative time (during evacuation, during the readmission, etc) so I can gauge a time of when the picture was taken. I did see several people with cameras and iPads taking photos and recording.

To those who have commented back. I want to thank you all for the honest feedback. Soon as I feel that the feedback seems complete I will have it all compiled for upper management to determine any areas that need improvement. Again, thank you all for your time in providing your "view" with me.

http://scottjwaldron...68531/h11339f35

The specific time is located on the "info" tab to the right of the photo. I have 13 photos in there, but they are all in the Saturday gallery (press the right arrow key or select one on the right when the thumbnails tab is selected).

[JediNight]

I was working on International Level in the Hyatt when this happened. Panel Ops did have the fire strobe blinking, but no alarm sound. We started directing some of the people out of the service doors at the end of the hall to lessen the glut of people going up the stairs, but overall it was orderly in that area from my POV. Nobody was running or pushing, etc. If this were to ever happen again, I might advise trying to send most of them out the service doors, as that lessens the crush of people trying to exit the main Hyatt doors, and spreads the crowd outside a bit better. It's also a shorter path outside from the basement

I think the re-entry confusion was getting the All Clear from the PD, FD, and Hotel. And maybe attendees were overhearing radio chatter? May be good to come up with a code word or call sign on when re-entry is allowed so people don't overhear things and start trying to push their way back in.

This post has been edited by JediNight: 09 May 2012 - 05:51 PM

[Genichiro]

I was in my room on the fourth level when the alarm sounded. I had no issue with the evacuation itself. I observed staff guiding people out, making sure no one tried to get back in during the evacuation, and made sure to keep people out of the elevators. My only issue was with re-entry. I was back on the street behind the firetruck after the evacuation, and saw the crowd moved forward only to be pushed back (presumably the results of the police giving all clear before IRT had been given the information). When I finally got inside, one IRT member was preventing people from going up the stairs, while another IRT member came up from behind us and told us to keep moving, leaving us confused as to which member we were supposed to listen to. After a few more moments of confusion, we were finally allowed up the stairs and back into the hotel.

In short, better communication between staffers would be a great help; we can't follow orders from IRT if we're given conflicting orders from different members.

[TheatreGirl]

Dave,

I will be sending you an email on some observations, along with some ideas. I would love to work with you on this if needed.

[vika838]

Dark Spellmaster, on 08 May 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Just a question, but, did anyone else happen to look up and notice some people on the top balcony's just chilling there and watching the crowds below? I remember seeing some people like three on one balcony and two on another. And I know the people in my car saw this too, so did anyone outside notice these people?

As I was in the process of evacuating with my husband from the Masquerade, I also noticed several people on an upper level balcony of the Hyatt taking pictures of the evacuation. So obviously some people chose to ignore the evacuation. There were no lights or sirens in main programming, so that may have contributed to the sense of disbelief when the announcement that a fire alarm was taking place, many of us thought it was a joke and waited for the punchline. I would say that the evacuation of main programming was orderly, although it was slow going for a while until IRT knocked down the stanchions and directed people out the line of glass doors instead of just the revolving doors. This sped things up tremendously, although I feel sorry for the poor plants that we trampled on our way out the doors. Once out the doors, it was difficult to make it through the line of people who were outside lined up for the Soap Bubble. We ran parallel to them for quite a while before we could make it across the street. After that we headed into the Expoteria to warm up, which was extremely crowded to the point of being squished. We waited until we saw the masses returning in, and were funneled through the bottleneck near the main programming doors (keep on the sidewalk!) only to be shouted at for not moving quickly enough through the main Hyatt entrance. So while things were orderly there were definite issues in crowd flow, that might have been exacerbated if there'd been an actual emergency. Hope this helps.

[twoFathoms]

I seemed to me like the IRT was creating more of a panic in a pretty calm crowed. People were walking out uniformly, and they were yelling and telling people to 'GET OUT NOW' when they were calming trying to get out.

I understand they need to assert some authority to get people to listen, but by this point everybody knew what was going on. It was just a matter of trying to walk out in a crowd.

[Star382000]

I was in my room on the 21st floor (executive wing) laying down after getting out of the shower when I heard indestinct yelling coming from the hall. I didn't think anything of it at frst but then it got louder and I tried to make out what was being said. Turns out there were two IRT people yelling up and down the hall that there was a fire alarm. I heard no alarm and I might not have even realized the yelling in the hall was important if I hadn't been nosey. I suggest in the future, if people need to be evacuated --especially when sirens are not going off-- PLEASE physically knock/bang/something on the doors to the rooms! I went into the hall and then was told to take the stairs. I have medical issues so stairs don't agree with me and when I told the IRT this they said to take the elevator since it was still running. As I exited the elevator I was told I had to evacuate the building (use stairs). I briefly explained my limitations in regards to stairs and was assisted down the flight in the Dome. I was assisted out of the building and attended to in the parking lot. I am 100% pleased with the assistance I received from EMRT and a DH (I need to find her name!) I am, however, disquieted by the IRT having told me to use the elevator. I have had it grilled into me to never use the elevators during a fire alarm and even with "permission" it was unsettling and I worried about reprocussions of my listening to them, and it was clear that they weren't going to assist me any other way. If the elevators had been down, I worry that they may not have been aware of on how to get proper aid (or know of an area of rescue assistance?) for someone who cannot take stairs. (Note: if I had had to take more than one large flight of stairs I would NOT have been willing to walk down them even with assistance). This is something that I feel ought to be addressed for the future.

This post has been edited by Star382000: 12 May 2012 - 02:04 PM

[MasterHavik]

Well,I wasn't in the area at the time. But it seem everyone was okay. They wasn't acting like the people in 2012. So yeah must have been a pretty chill fire alarm.

[chainedbyroses]

Star382000, on 12 May 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

I was in my room on the 21st floor (executive wing) laying down after getting out of the shower when I heard indestinct yelling coming from the hall. I didn't think anything of it at frst but then it got louder and I tried to make out what was being said. Turns out there were two IRT people yelling up and down the hall that there was a fire alarm. I heard no alarm and I might not have even realized the yelling in the hall was important if I hadn't been nosey. I suggest in the future, if people need to be evacuated --especially when sirens are not going off-- PLEASE physically knock/bang/something on the doors to the rooms! I went into the hall and then was told to take the stairs. I have medical issues so stairs don't agree with me and when I told the IRT this they said to take the elevator since it was still running. As I exited the elevator I was told I had to evacuate the building (use stairs). I briefly explained my limitations in regards to stairs and was assisted down the flight in the Dome. I was assisted out of the building and attended to in the parking lot. I am 100% pleased with the assistance I received from EMRT and a DH (I need to find her name!) I am, however, disquieted by the IRT having told me to use the elevator. I have had it grilled into me to never use the elevators during a fire alarm and even with "permission" it was unsettling and I worried about reprocussions of my listening to them, and it was clear that they weren't going to assist me any other way. If the elevators had been down, I worry that they may not have been aware of on how to get proper aid (or know of an area of rescue assistance?) for someone who cannot take stairs. (Note: if I had had to take more than one large flight of stairs I would NOT have been willing to walk down them even with assistance). This is something that I feel ought to be addressed for the future.

I had a similar problem in the Embassy during the 2010 "fire" incident. Alarms can't be heard in the room their either, and only found out/knew something was wrong because everyone was running past screaming and I opened the door to yell at them (in my head I'm 90 & like quiet), and that's when I saw/smelled the smoke and hurried my kiester out of there. I'm thinking this is something that ALL the Rosemont/con hotels will want to address, really. If there WAS a real fire, and those things didn't go off............

Also, for what it's worth, the Hyatt -DOES- have a handicapped/wheelchair ramp alternate to the stairs and elevators, located in the southwest corner of the building (same generalized area of the Skywalk entryway), I believe. I don't have the map on my at the moment, but I'll see if I can('t?) dig out the link to the original pdf I found it at later today. Not sure how much that helps, but it's something at the least, and probably something we ought make the public more aware of in the future, at any rate.

[Smokey]

chainedbyroses, on 14 May 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

Also, for what it's worth, the Hyatt -DOES- have a handicapped/wheelchair ramp alternate to the stairs and elevators, located in the southwest corner of the building (same generalized area of the Skywalk entryway), I believe. I don't have the map on my at the moment, but I'll see if I can('t?) dig out the link to the original pdf I found it at later today. Not sure how much that helps, but it's something at the least, and probably something we ought make the public more aware of in the future, at any rate.

I'm not familiar with any such ramp. If you can find it on the map, please point it out to me.

[obakasan]

I believe some people in the past have been directed to the Hyatt parking garage and elevators as an alternate handicapped evac route (or just as an alternate hotel exit) as accessed via that corner. Some people's definition of a "handicapped ramp" seems to include the garage car ramps.

[chainedbyroses]

Smokey, on 14 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I'm not familiar with any such ramp. If you can find it on the map, please point it out to me.

Page 42 of this year's Program/Guide, upper right (above the block of purple, or just to the left and past LAX).

Look at the apex of the walls just above the bottommost (southernmost) circle/tower. Wheelchair symbols right there, and if I recall correctly from walking the hamster tunnel so much this year, the handicap access/wall with a wheelchair symbol should be RIGHT there (on that level at least), either just before that hall becomes the path to the Pizza Rooms & to the trail, or just past that point (ice machines, bathrooms, elevators area, ish?). (Next time I'm in Rosemont I could always see about taking a look & taking some pictures of the spots.) Exact locations printed/listed are next to Gatwick & Malpensa (appears to be a corner entry); between LAX/the main level cafe, as well as between Hartsfield/IRT HQ & the Red Bar just a little north/northwest of the tower. Text indicators are just above the Camera #6, just below The Red Bar, and just above the final t in "Hyatt International Level", just next to the Panel Ops marker.

This post has been edited by chainedbyroses: 15 May 2012 - 03:30 AM

[obakasan]

chainedbyroses, on 15 May 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Page 42 of this year's Program/Guide, upper right (above the block of purple, or just to the left and past LAX).

Look at the apex of the walls just above the bottommost (southernmost) circle/tower. Wheelchair symbols right there, and if I recall correctly from walking the hamster tunnel so much this year, the handicap access/wall with a wheelchair symbol should be RIGHT there (on that level at least), either just before that hall becomes the path to the Pizza Rooms & to the trail, or just past that point (ice machines, bathrooms, elevators area, ish?). (Next time I'm in Rosemont I could always see about taking a look & taking some pictures of the spots.) Exact locations printed/listed are next to Gatwick & Malpensa (appears to be a corner entry); between LAX/the main level cafe, as well as between Hartsfield/IRT HQ & the Red Bar just a little north/northwest of the tower. Text indicators are just above the Camera #6, just below The Red Bar, and just above the final t in "Hyatt International Level", just next to the Panel Ops marker.

That marks the "handicapped" elevator between the 3 floors. It's the only way someone wheelchair-bound can access the basement (International) level. There is no exit to the outside at those spots. The Hyatt has been known to get real touchy about it's use especially by non-handicapped people and has repoprtedly at times locked the system so you have to get a hotel employee to access it. I've not experienced that firsthand however. As I travel with a "mobility impaired" person I am quite familiar with that elevator.

[Ervyla]

Our experience with evac went fairly smooth, everyone was calm and got out quickly. This is less procedural than a safety/Hyatt issue but the bottom of the staircase that we took had a broken pipe and water all over the floor and I know at least one person slipped. The was some broken caution tape on the ceiling, and everyone should know to try not to slip in the water, but it still was quite dangerous.

[KungPowKirby]

I emailed and expressed my concern about the fire alarm (as a guest). This is the response that I recieved:

Quote

I understand your concern about the fire alarm, but please understand that the way that a high rise building that is spinklered fire code works is that when an alarm is triggered, only the floor effected and the floors directly above and below are sent into alarm to evacuate. Only if a situation became serious would a complete evacuation be broadcasted throughout the hotel. The fire department determined that it was a mischievous discharge of a fire extinguisher, and advised us that we could terminate the evacuation immediately. Nonetheless, I understand how confusing this can be.

[Genichiro]

KungPowKirby, on 26 May 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I emailed and expressed my concern about the fire alarm (as a guest). This is the response that I recieved:

Quote

I understand your concern about the fire alarm, but please understand that the way that a high rise building that is spinklered fire code works is that when an alarm is triggered, only the floor effected and the floors directly above and below are sent into alarm to evacuate. Only if a situation became serious would a complete evacuation be broadcasted throughout the hotel. The fire department determined that it was a mischievous discharge of a fire extinguisher, and advised us that we could terminate the evacuation immediately. Nonetheless, I understand how confusing this can be.

I'm pretty sure the evacuation was for the entire hotel, not just the "floor effected and the floors directly above and below." Very curious response; sounds like something half-automated.

[Valkyrie]

The thing is, if we hear the fire alarm go off, we don't limit it to that one area where it's sounding - namely because we don't know if there is a fire (versus a prank), where it is, or how big it is. It's a reasonable policy for the hotel to have on a usual, day-to-day basis, but on a day-to-day basis, they're not gonna have 20,000 people wandering the grounds. Better to be safe than sorry.

[davebb]

I will be working with HCSR on this issue about resolving this. From what I saw on someone's video all floors had the strobes going off. Also if the hotel wants to terminate the evacuation they will need to work with us on communicating all this information.

And yes that response appears like a canned message that I received earlier about procedures which did not give any information of what I asked about. With all the feedback I am receiving though I am going to use this to help "arm" our HCSR head to help get a better coordination with the hotel and our staff. They worked together, but from what I saw it could be much improved upon.

I'll be closing this thread probably on Tuesday, but I'll post where people can email me directly on here. For now thank you for all your cooperation and feedback.
-Dave