[❤Mokyu❤]

Some people are arguing that it wouldn't be feasible to have 2 dances on Friday. Personally, I don't understand why it would be that difficult...

[rondo]

❤Mokyu❤, on 07 May 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Some people are arguing that it wouldn't be feasible to have 2 dances on Friday. Personally, I don't understand why it would be that difficult...

Perhaps they don't have enough energy to do a double in one night. Setup wise, it shouldn't be tough. Chances are, there are people who wants to dance-party each night.

You could technically do both the Masq and whatever dance in the same night, same room. BUT, ACEN has a lingering issue with things even being relatively on time. If they can nail down their times, it solves many issues.

This post has been edited by rondo: 07 May 2012 - 11:24 AM

[Washu Takahashi]

Krystal, on 05 May 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'll be honest; I cried.

I wanted to cry reading your post ): Something HAS to be done about this. even though it's something that should never happen again, there needs to be some kind of back up plan. Let's say next year everything is running smoothly and on time, then some idiot pulls the fire alarm again. Ok, no problem. Get everyone back inside. Now someone preforming randomly has a seizure or something. Ok, now we're running short on time. There needs to be a space reserved on Sunday for just in case ANYTHING happens that causes the masq to delay. Even with all the improvements that I'm sure will be made to prevent something like this from happening again, there needs to be a back-up plan for whatever the gods decide to dish out on us in coming years.

Cricket, on 05 May 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

That is not financially possible. We had 200 members for IRT in 3 shifts and 2 special duties and people still felt we were understaffed. and that's with 50 ops on the floor at all times minimum. So say ACEN rented security, To meet the same requirements as this year, we would need 50 people at 10$/hr which turns into 500$ an hour, say 8 hour shift is 4,000$ that's 12k minimum for the convention, per day. 36k total. and even then there are no guarantees that nothing will happen to people, on top of dealing with the attitude of Security. It would be a nightmare.Now, say you just have the raves/dance/masq shifted by security, doesn't that defeat the point of having them to start with if they are only going to be in one area? problems just move away from them at that point. and again it would cost about 10k.For what it's worth, ACEN has RPD on site at all times.

No one here said to do away with IRT in favor of real security. They just want some real security with the IRT that are legally able to do something about unruly attendees. Let's say...10 at all times. That should be plenty to have at LEAST one at all major events (2 or 3 for SB/Masq) and another 2 or 3 patrolling outside/hotels for illegal activity. Yeah, it'll still cost a pretty penny, but it'd be doable. And we'd still need IRT to make up the other 40 people.

MH121, on 06 May 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

As one of the masquerade skit that got cut (and have to explain that to a 9 years old cosplay why we got cut), I do NOT blame Soapbubbles folks. Like a previous poster said, the blame lies first in 1) folks who did scheduling then 2) folks who cannot control the time limit of scheduled events and finally 3) the folks who made the final call to cut the skits.

Don't forget 4. The idiot who pulled the fire alarm

MH121, on 06 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

From the person who handled Soapbubble, he stated on Facebook's ACEN group that all DJs at Soapbubble are volunteers, not paid.

If this is true one of the staff members who posted in here was lying saying it was oh so costly to bring in DJs. If the DJs are volunteers, even if their travel or whatever is paid like someone else suggested, they an't cost much at all. A plane ticket is 1k, at the most. And really, why do we need to bring in DJs that need a plane ticket when there are a million (exaggeration, bear with me) DJs in the Chicagoland area who'd be more than happy to volunteer? I'm not trying to bash the rave here, but we really don't need expensive DJs. Most people just go there to grind on each other and have a good time with friends, and most won't care if their DJ is Bob from next door or Mr Big Stuff from California or something. (Assuming Bob can manage a decent line-up, of course)

[Dark Spellmaster]

So it's interesting, there's no talks in the soapBubble thread about late starts, masq issue or anything. I find it funny that we're in here talking about it and there's nothing from the leaders of the events regarding the Bubble being pushed forward. Although there is one converstation where someone mentions how do they get to see the start DJs and the answer is pretty much you have to skip the Masq to do so.

[Kiezer]

Washu Takahashi, on 07 May 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

No one here said to do away with IRT in favor of real security. They just want some real security with the IRT that are legally able to do something about unruly attendees. Let's say...10 at all times. That should be plenty to have at LEAST one at all major events (2 or 3 for SB/Masq) and another 2 or 3 patrolling outside/hotels for illegal activity. Yeah, it'll still cost a pretty penny, but it'd be doable. And we'd still need IRT to make up the other 40 people.

Just a note on this. RPD is (I believe) always on site, and I know they were at the soap bubble because I saw them there standing in the back of the room while I was working the event. (I imagine they were at hardcore synergy as well, but I honestly can't remember for sure). I also saw them around the hotel itself. On top of this, the hotel has its own security as well and we do our best to work together when need be (and they should have access to the cameras) - I even had them take care of a situation myself, they are very friendly and helpful.

Not saying a few more wouldn't be nice, but I just thought I'd mention it.

[Washu Takahashi]

Kiezer, on 07 May 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Just a note on this. RPD is (I believe) always on site, and I know they were at the soap bubble because I saw them there standing in the back of the room while I was working the event. (I imagine they were at hardcore synergy as well, but I honestly can't remember for sure). I also saw them around the hotel itself. On top of this, the hotel has its own security as well and we do our best to work together when need be (and they should have access to the cameras) - I even had them take care of a situation myself, they are very friendly and helpful.

Not saying a few more wouldn't be nice, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks for mentioning it From what I've seen, the PD is only ever outside directing traffic. But I wouldn't doubt they were other places I didn't notice (for the most part, I avoid the raves so I wouldn't know if they were there) Good to hear they are more present than I originally thought. But agreed that we could have some more specially trained security guards since when it comes down to it, IRT is very limited in what they can do.

[Dark Spellmaster]

It's a plus when you can't see the police because that means they are watching carefully so as not to obstruct the fun that others are having. Although it might be nice to have them out and about during the night with the raves, and maybe watching out for drinkers that are causing trouble, or at least going up and down the stairs to see if anyone is screwing around.

[rondo]

I dunno, seeing police could be a deterrent.

[Mullenkamp]

rondo, on 07 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

I dunno, seeing police could be a deterrent.

I think that's the point.

[stuffedpandastudios]

I'm just now getting to read this thread (as I caught something at the con and have been sick for a week!). I was in the masquerade again this year, but was a walk-on so I was still able to go across with my group.

I want to say that the masquerade staff was wonderful. They tried to keep us informed, were organized, and helpful the whole time. I felt absolutely horrible for all the participants and masquerade staff when I found out skits were cut. People backstage were completely crushed, and understandably so. Reasons and solutions have already been covered numerous times in this thread, so I won't go over that again.

I still plan on participating next year, and I believe that the masquerade will be great next year with the dedication of Jon and everyone else. I'm not too thrilled with the way the rest of the convention is heading, but the masquerade & cosplay are what keep me coming.

<3

[XenoBlade]

SurvivalStrategy, on 07 May 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

What numbers? As far as I can tell, the only numbers that are actually taken are the fire safety numbers by IRT, which we both agree isn't an exact headcount. If they were even looking at the numbers to make decisions, they'd probably be taking better ones. So this is what I'm saying:
-FACT 1: People feel the rave is huge.
-FACT 2: Management is people too.
-JOKE 1: Management doesn't employ psychics anymore.
-CONCLUSION 1: Therefore, people in management may feel the rave is huge.
-CONCLUSION 2: When called upon to make a quick decision, someone might feel the rave is gargantuan and warrants the hours it ended up getting vs. the masquerade.
-CAVEAT: It doesn't.
-SOLUTION: Stop assuming that thing.
Unless Acen is secretly massively in debt, they already have enough money to pay for these things every year. They had it when badge income was half what it is now. Most of the added cost to Acen is probably the increased attendance every year, so trying to raise attendance in order to "make money" is self-defeating. Now it would be cool if they tried to raise a lot of money to get cooler guests, but I see no evidence that's really prioritized by anyone outside of guest relations...

I can't seriously believe people who control what happens at acen (even being normal people just like all of us) don't have some sort of idea of the numbers of people who go into things. Doesn't have to be exact. There is no need to be exact. Just a general figure. If you know that there are more people in one thing, then another, then the job is done. But besides that, i'm sure the head count is passed up. I would like to think the heads aren't naive and just listen to hearsay. Give me a break. They know a general figure. For instance, the masq can hold 3,000 (if I remember the number that was posted) seated, and 4,000 standing? Just having that number and looking at the masq, and seeing how many seats are open (and they make sure people sit next to each other, no empty chairs)is a easy way to estimate. Just having the head count is good enough to figure which one does what. You don't just make decisions off of unsure chatter. This is why the soap bubble has the pull it does. I have not once seen the masq have the lines the soap bubble does. I don't know how many acens you have been to, but ever since I started in 07, I've always seen the soap bubble have more, and then it just keeps increasing. No assuming, no thinking, just pure physical evidence. Have I counted? No, but seeing the differences? I can tell that one has more.

Well the point of badge cost is to cover guests and all that jazz, so the more people, the more guest. And it may seem they may not, but I'm quite sure they are trying to bring big names. (just the problem of schedules) And more attendence MAY raise it, tho it also can have the equal effect of giving them more freeway to bring people. If they really wanted to lower attendance, don't you think they would have made a cap already? So chances are the more people, they better for them.

[cactusmomma]

Washu Takahashi, on 07 May 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

when there are a million (exaggeration, bear with me) DJs in the Chicagoland area who'd be more than happy to volunteer?

Fun fact: That was originally the premise of the Underground Groove (Now Hardcore Synergy.).. to showcase local talent as the folks who started it up are professional DJ's in the city.

[empress]

I am completely saddened to hear the the skits were cut from the masquerade this year. This was my first not attending since I started going in 2004 and with this news I may never attend again. The masquerade was always the highlight of my weekend, initially while in the audience, and then as walk-on from the years 2006-2011.

First, to those who's skits were cut -- I'm so very sorry that the call was made. Even though they were not seen, I want to thank you for all the hard work you do to entertain the audience. Every year I'm so amazed with all the creativity you have in your bones and you never fail to have me cracking up! You deserve MUCH better than to have it cut.

Next for those who run the masquerade -- You should have never had to be the bearer of awful news and say the skits were cut. It wasn't your fault that things ran behind initially and that the alarm was pulled. I understand very much if you choose not to run things next year. You were always trying to help it run more smoothly and timely by tweaking it yearly and there were some great strides over the years. Thank you for all your hard work!

Lastly to those who made the decision to cut it -- Your decision was completely disrespectful to all those who spent countless of hours and probably hundreds of dollars on their skit. Then you had the audacity to comp their badges for NEXT year. If I were them I would find another convention to showcase their talents and treats them with much better courtesy. It was not their fault that some ill-mannered congoer decided to pull the alarm. Nor was it anyone's fault except the guilty individuals. With that being said, everyone knew there was an alarm pulled, so it just makes sense that things would be pushed back in that instance. Setbacks happen and and everyone needs to roll with the punches. Yes, it is disappointing that events are postponed for a short time, but in the end everyone is there to have fun.

This post has been edited by empress: 08 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

[frzndaqiri]

Dark Spellmaster, on 07 May 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

It's a plus when you can't see the police because that means they are watching carefully so as not to obstruct the fun that others are having. Although it might be nice to have them out and about during the night with the raves, and maybe watching out for drinkers that are causing trouble, or at least going up and down the stairs to see if anyone is screwing around.

rondo, on 07 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

I dunno, seeing police could be a deterrent.

Mullenkamp, on 07 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I think that's the point.

That's what rondo was saying - their comment was to Dark Spellmaster saying it's a plus not to see them. rondo commented SEEING them could be a deterrent.

[Dark Spellmaster]

Seeing them could be good, but at the same time that means that they may try to be more sneaky about their trouble making.

[Washu Takahashi]

Dark Spellmaster, on 08 May 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Seeing them could be good, but at the same time that means that they may try to be more sneaky about their trouble making.

I have agree with rondo. I'd rather them be sneaky, in which case we wouldn't have to deal with it quite as much. And for all of those that would resort to being sneaky and cautious, there's a equal amount who would probably give up and think it was too much of a hassle.

[Dark Spellmaster]

My one question is this though, would the image of more police make people think the con is unsafe as a whole? I know probably not to most but for those who are on the fence about attending would the image of more cops hanging around indicate to them that there's a lot of trouble to be had and that it maybe unsafe for fans to attend the convention?

[frzndaqiri]

Perhaps for people who this is their first an only event - but there's security at any major event of any size. Fireworks, concerts, Olympics, etc. I think as long as we're conveying ahead of time : You will notice that there are several uniformed officers throughout the convention. If you have any issues that warrant their attention, please don't hesitate to stop them and let them know. They are there to help and keep everyone safe should the need arise.

I think your concern is a commentary on the negative outlook of police presence (one that is perpetuated on both sides and I'll not start that whole argument here) and is sad that just being on patrol means that there must be something bad about to happen.

[Dark Spellmaster]

I personally don't look at police presence as a negative (Have family that was both in the police and one in the Secreat Service), I just know that some might, and also that there are those who enjoy the idea of "riling up the cops" for the fun of it. Or seeing what they can get away with, it's their thrill ride, so to speak, which makes me wonder what sort of life lessons they learned. I don't think police on patrol is a bad thing, not at all, I'm glad there there too. I just worry that oversaturation of them could lead to press or other media outlets thinking that the con isn't safe because it needs a lot of police around.

What might work is when people are checking in, they can see an officer near the front desk sort of like a warning of "You know we're here and we are watching." This way maybe those that decide to go overboard might think twice about it?

[MH121]

I think the only people who view a few police presence (now, I am not talking about tons of cops standing around in riot gears and uzis) are the ones who think they're going to get into trouble with the law. If you don't plan to get rowdy and break rules, there is no reason to worry about a few cops wandering around.

This post has been edited by MH121: 09 May 2012 - 07:13 PM

[Dark Spellmaster]

MH121, on 09 May 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I think the only people who view a few police presence (now, I am not talking about tons of cops standing around in riot gears and uzis) are the ones who think they're going to get into trouble with the law. If you don't plan to get rowdy and break rules, there is no reason to worry about a few cops wandering around.

True enough. Again I suppose one could look at Acen as a event that has the potential to be a sporting sort of event where cops around aren't a bad idea. Again my only worry would be that people on the outside see cops and they will be like, "Oh this event has become not safe."

[Roark]

Cricket, on 05 May 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

So say ACEN rented security, To meet the same requirements as this year, we would need 50 people at 10$/hr which turns into 500$ an hour, say 8 hour shift is 4,000$ that's 12k minimum for the convention, per day. 36k total. and even then there are no guarantees that nothing will happen to people, on top of dealing with the attitude of Security. It would be a nightmare.

And how does that compare to housing 70% of 200 people for 3 nights, feeding 200 people for 3 days, investing in radio equipment for all those people, investments in vest storage/washing, 5 free badges per IRT staff (volunteer badge + 4 comps), plus all the other ancillary costs (e.g., parking)?

The lost badge revenue is 10k alone, assuming an average price of $50/badge. Housing 140 people 4/room for 3 nights takes 25 rooms. Even at a steep discount of $100/room/night, that's 25k right there. That right there pays your estimate of private security, assuming $10/hour, which may be an underestimate.

I don't think you really want to play the numbers game on this. Even at $15/hour (48k for the weekend), hired security seems like a bargain compared to IRT, considering that you get trained, licensed, bonded staff. Paid staff, who can be held accountable for things like showing up, working a full shift, not taking copious amounts of smoke breaks, and generally acting professional.

[davebb]

*taking out my own response to save the thread*

Sorry to the Masq forum mods for having this part of the discussion in their thread as half of this thread should be in the IRT section, maybe a global mod can do some moving.

MOD HAT: Any additional issues involving IRT issues please lets move over to the IRT thread, if you want to 'quote' someone, please take the time to do the reply button here and copy the quote text and then goto the IRT thread and post there

In otherwords, lets keep IRT bashing out of Masq threads. Thank you.