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Masquerade 2012

#121 User is offline   Ohki 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:19 AM

Guys, can we please stop bashing the Soap Bubble staff, attendees, and DJs here? I have never once attended the masquerade. This was my first year really attending the Soap Bubble. Of the two events, the Soap Bubble is more up my alley personally. That said, I agree that I think it was a bad decision. I actually thought the masquerade got moved to another room or something, I had no idea it had gotten canceled until I got home. I don't think it was the right call at all. Sure, my glowsticks may have worn out if the rave got pushed back an hour, but I'd have been okay with that over the masquerade getting cut off. Since yeah it is the anime related programming here.

But see, this doesn't mean the Soap Bubble is a bad event and that we shouldn't have it, so please knock it off with that. Yes, the Soap Bubble attracts troublemakers. It also attracts people like me. I am primarily here for the anime-related things. I ran a Madoka panel. My highlight of the con was the Panty and Stocking dub premiere. I spent less on official anime merchandise this year than normal, but I always buy at least something in the dealers room that is official merchandise. I cosplayed from My Little Pony and I attended the rave, but those were the only non-anime related things I did all weekend, so I'm getting a bit sick of seeing over and over that an event that I really enjoyed and really looked forward to this year should be axed because of this.

This was a terrible call. Even as someone with no interest in attending the masquerade, I agree with that sentiment. But for the love of all things holy, no, the Soap Bubble isn't the villain here. The ones you should be calling out are 1. whoever made that call, 2. whoever set off that fire alarm assuming it wasn't a real fire, and 3. whoever caused the main programming room's schedule to get pushed back (specifically the staffers that let it happen, really, it's their responsibility to make sure events end on time).

EDIT: Also re; the chanting from the rave line, none of us were informed of what was going on. I had no clue that the masquerade didn't start on time. No one in that line did, since obviously none of us were attending the masquerade. We all figured it was at least halfway through, since it should've been. No one told us otherwise. When we were first allowed to come back in, we were initially told to just stay in the lobby if we were there for the rave. A lot of us thought we were the ones that'd get canceled. I figured we'd at least be delayed quite a bit. So in short, we were a bunch of people who had been in line for a long time, in a lot of cases out in the cold while not exactly dressed in warm clothing (and to be fair re; skimpy raver getups, it gets hot in there. Very hot.). We weren't given information re; the situation; we were just in line with no clue what was going on. Of course people got annoyed. I'm sure some of the rave line people would've still been uppity about it if they did know the full situation, but some would've been more understanding. As it is, though, for the most part we didn't know.

This post has been edited by Ohki: 06 May 2012 - 12:31 AM

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#122 User is offline   ExentricSage 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:01 AM

View PostOutlawed, on 03 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Perhaps ACen can prevent this type of disruption by moving the Masquerade out of Main Programming. There would no longer be a risk of Masquerade running over into concert/dance programming. This would allow the Masquerade to have more time.

Concert/Dance programming became the #1 events at ACen several years ago. This is clearly demonstrated by the man hours and money spent on those events by the convention. For those who had not noticed this had happened I'm sure this year's Masquerade issue came as a shock.



I'm calling BS on the concerts being bigger than the Masquerade. All the concerts I've attended at Acen had short lines and smaller crowds than Masquerade. I've seen them have to turn people away at the door once everyone is seated at the Masquerade year after year.

The Soap Bubble is also over hyped. The lines are insane for the first few hours, until people get their turn inside, and get bored. Most of the times that I have stopped in at the rave, half the people in there were just laying around the floor near the walls, FFS.

Now take into consideration the COST of running the Rave. PAID performers, emergencies, arrests, cleaning crew paid to stay late, people who come JUST for the party and trash the hotel Sat. night every freaking year. I don't think the convention is making as much revenue off the 'rave' when all is said and done, as they may think they are.

If you remove events such as Masquerade from Main Programming, you may as well remove 'Anime' from the name of the convention and be done with it.

It would be more logical to split Main Programing between different hotels. Concerts certainly don't fill the Ballroom as it is, and the Ballroom is actually really ill equipped for a 'rave'. It's more like the setting for a high school prom, complete with underage kids.

If Soap Bubble were done in a separate Ballroom than Masquerade, the decor and set up for the Soap Bubble could cater better to it's purpose. In the Masquerade's ballroom, we could go back to having a silly in-costume after-party and spazing out to geeky music and anime theme songs.

This would also help alleviate the fire hazard and confusion posed by the massive line ups for multiple events that happen simultaneously in and around the Hyatt. It's unreasonable to ask IRT and con goers alike not to have lines until 30 minutes before a scheduled event. That has never worked in the past when they tried it, so why should it work in the future, as the convention continues to grow? Just spread out the main programming and larger panels across more than one large hotel, instead of trying to cram all the big stuff into one or two compact spaces and only dispersing the smaller things like video rooms.

I know this would mean new contracts with more hotels for these accommodations. You ether have to stop trying to grow your convention, or accommodate your growing convention. It's like they think they can have it both ways. Hell, why not make 'Party con' it's own separate con? Then we can choose which environment we'd prefer to pay to be in.
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#123 User is offline   Mullenkamp 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 05 May 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Here's an odd thought following along Voxx's idea. What if we move Hardcore to Saturday, Friday night put up something called like "Acen has Talent" where you can have the skits and mix it with singing groups. This being said the best skits get put on for Masq and you start the Hardcore later and limit the age to 21 and up. Do away with the bubble and focus then on the Talent show. You make up the money you might loose from the bubble by instead offering tickets to a special movie or event at a differnet time of year.

Like for example: Acen Halloween bash, or a Acen Christmas event. Or even something in the summer that's a one night only event. Even maybe the Soap Bubble. Only charge for getting into it, and make up the difference that way if it means a loss for the con.


HUGE problem with having the skits Friday night: A lot of skit groups (like mine!) are made up of people who don't live near each other, and can't practice in person until they all arrive at the con. If you go look into the lesser-used areas of the convention hotels late Friday night, you will frequently find a group of people working their butts off in the most out-of-the-way location they can find in hopes that they'll have it all pulled together well enough to go onstage with it Saturday night. This is why despite a short drive, my girlfriend and I always go for Thursday night - our group gets to practice for the first time together before the huge crowds arrive. I saw groups rehearsing on the upper floors of the Embassy on Friday night this year too, so I know we're not the only ones. Groups like this can block out the action and draw diagrams and share videos and such to determine exactly what they're doing over the internet, but until they actually get together in person, they've never had an actual rehearsal. Despite starting on Thursdays, my group has frequently been up half the night on Friday, working until the early hours of the morning, trying to make sure everybody's got it down and it's looking good. (And then we rehearse more on Saturday, because a couple of us are extreme perfectionists, but that's us. ;))

If you had the skits performed Friday evening and chose "the best" out of those who looked good on Friday evening, with a full day less of rehearsal, with no opportunity to re-record or remix audio that turns out not to work right (or for the staff to get everyone and their audio and intros and so on organized)... I can guarantee that many of the skits people might have thought were awesome in the past wouldn't have passed. Dancers and fighters won't be as well-coordinated with each other, lip-synching won't be as tight, people may move awkwardly because they've had no time to get used to moving around in the specific space alotted with other people there too. And in fact, I can think of one skit I saw that went over really well at a different convention which was, we found out later, only thought up on the way to that con on Friday morning. A plan like that might work for next year, because hopefully the people who didn't get to perform this year will come back and get to do those skits again - with the potential for a whole extra year of rehearsal options! But on a yearly basis, doesn't sound wise.

Again I would note that if one has never been in or staffed the masq (or a musical or similar dramatic production), one probably doesn't realize just how hard everyone works, staff and performers. Even those who recognize that people have worked hard likely don't know HOW hard. It's a ton of effort from everyone involved. And this is why I'm in this thread despite the fact that I was not one of those inconvenienced by the situation this year - the masq has deserved better than it's gotten for YEARS. Not just this instance. YEARS. The staff have treated us wonderfully, and made the hard work and occasional massive frustrations (Yoshiki, anyone?) worth it for us. I'd like to see them treated with the same kind of care and respect as they've shown the participants.

#124 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

As one of the masquerade skit that got cut (and have to explain that to a 9 years old cosplay why we got cut), I do NOT blame Soapbubbles folks. Like a previous poster said, the blame lies first in 1) folks who did scheduling then 2) folks who cannot control the time limit of scheduled events and finally 3) the folks who made the final call to cut the skits.

I think it defeats the purpose of the discussion and pit attendees vs. attendees if we continue to blame other events, when the real problem is with certain sections of the con management.

Yes, it's a volunteer organization. But if you want to volunteer, at least do a good job at it.

Again, I want to say, the masquerade staff is superior this year, best I have seen in any of the cons I have been to, from smaller midwest cons to the likes of Dragon*Con. The rest of the con staff, especially the ones related to programming, scheduling and the con execs, that is up to discussion.

This post has been edited by MH121: 06 May 2012 - 11:43 AM


#125 User is offline   SurvivalStrategy 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostExentricSage, on 06 May 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'm calling BS on the concerts being bigger than the Masquerade. All the concerts I've attended at Acen had short lines and smaller crowds than Masquerade. I've seen them have to turn people away at the door once everyone is seated at the Masquerade year after year.

The Soap Bubble is also over hyped. The lines are insane for the first few hours, until people get their turn inside, and get bored. Most of the times that I have stopped in at the rave, half the people in there were just laying around the floor near the walls, FFS.

Now take into consideration the COST of running the Rave. PAID performers, emergencies, arrests, cleaning crew paid to stay late, people who come JUST for the party and trash the hotel Sat. night every freaking year. I don't think the convention is making as much revenue off the 'rave' when all is said and done, as they may think they are.

I agree with this completely. Even if we ridiculously overestimate it and say 25% of the con goes to the rave (and I will bet my left foot that it's significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY less than that), we STILL are spending way too much money on DJ guests.

I'm not trying to bash the rave or the DJs, or even guest relations, it sounds like this financial overprioritization is coming from the top. But it's this mindset that made it possible to cut the skits or for anyone to rationalize it...

#126 User is offline   ❤Mokyu❤ 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:27 PM

I never understood why they needed more than 2-3 DJs... Weren't there, like, 7 this year?

#127 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

From the person who handled Soapbubble, he stated on Facebook's ACEN group that all DJs at Soapbubble are volunteers, not paid.

This post has been edited by MH121: 06 May 2012 - 02:39 PM


#128 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostSurvivalStrategy, on 06 May 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

I agree with this completely. Even if we ridiculously overestimate it and say 25% of the con goes to the rave (and I will bet my left foot that it's significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY less than that), we STILL are spending way too much money on DJ guests.

I'm not trying to bash the rave or the DJs, or even guest relations, it sounds like this financial overprioritization is coming from the top. But it's this mindset that made it possible to cut the skits or for anyone to rationalize it...


Well let me ask you this (cuz it is pointless to keep debating since neither one of us will budge) why do you think they cut the masq over the soap bubble?

To add, if the con isn't making much money off of the soap bubble, why is it still there? If it is more trouble then it is worth, why is it still on the menu? I dislike the soap bubble as a lot of people do, but there has to be a good value seeing how the bubble gets pretty good treatment every year.

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 06 May 2012 - 02:53 PM

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#129 User is offline   BakaBarbarian 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostCricket, on 05 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Here's the thing though and this is going to sound a bit dark, so i'm going to state this again that my opinions do not reflect the staff or Acen in anyway.

If those types of things are going to happen, They are going to happen regardless of who/what polices the convention, Hell I've been beaten up at a concert with plenty of Security there, Hell i've gotten my head slammed into the wall in a public bathroom because someone was drunk. There is only so much prevention people can reasonably do when there are those with ill intent in mind, it's sadly the risk of going to any event.


Sure, nothing in life is 100% safe. You could riddle the place with security and someone could die in a car accident at River road and Higgins. But there's a difference between what's going on now--reactive security, mostly conducted by people with no real power or authority to do so--and what needs to happen, which is proactive security. If you have an event with a track record of X, Y, and Z crimes being committed, it makes a heck of a lot more sense to take a step back and say "how do we reduce X, Y, and Z" than it does to tell people to get a badge name and see if the hotel can review its security files.

I say this not to pick a fight with you, just to say that I feel that IRT volunteers are in a horrible situation. I know you said IRT felt understaffed and mentioned a figure at 200 volunteers. For a con of 20,000+ people, that seems incredibly light. It makes me wonder, how is that fair to those 200 volunteers? Especially when IRT is expected to not only take on the role of cops, but also the role of traffic directors, keeping an eye out for medical emergencies, customer service, answering questions, knowing where everything is at the con, checking props, checking badges, and more?

The more I learn about the IRT situation, the more appalled I am. Not at the volunteers, but the high-level ACEN/MAPS staff. There is a perfect storm brewing here.

#130 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

Not to mention IRT is now elevator valets too. Talk about overworked department.

#131 User is offline   BakaBarbarian 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

And don't get me wrong, I applaud the con staff for doing something proactive about the elevators. Just from the standpoint of disability access alone, it's a good move. But yes, it's yet another thing in the hands of volunteers who technically aren't allowed to do much of anything if someone is flagrantly abusive, drunk/high, etc.

#132 User is offline   Outlawed 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

View PostOutlawed, on 03 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Perhaps ACen can prevent this type of disruption by moving the Masquerade out of Main Programming. There would no longer be a risk of Masquerade running over into concert/dance programming. This would allow the Masquerade to have more time.

Concert/Dance programming became the #1 events at ACen several years ago. This is clearly demonstrated by the man hours and money spent on those events by the convention. For those who had not noticed this had happened I'm sure this year's Masquerade issue came as a shock.

View PostExentricSage, on 06 May 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'm calling BS on the concerts being bigger than the Masquerade.



I never stated every single concert/dance was bigger in attendance. I stated they became the #1 events several years ago based on fiscal spending and man hours of convention staff. There is no question IRT alone has to put more work in on concert/dance events. I'm pretty sure guest relations and A/V expend a large amount of their man hours and budget on this as well. There is nothing inherently wrong with this.


View PostThatOneChick, on 03 May 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

They tried to move us this year. Not the first time. The next biggest room is a third the size of the Grand Ballroom and the staging is completely inadequate.
In short, over my dead body.


I think this makes it very clear that I am not off base in my assessment of the situation. No one in this thread is factoring why the dance hadn't already been moved in the past so Masquerade could get more time and instead we read here that Masquerade has been asked to re-locate out of Main Programming. Let's pretend ACen magically acquires a room of fairly equal size available. The dances/concerts will still be together in the same Main Programming because of the logistics and equipment involved in those events.

Adding 30 minutes of schedule time for the Masquerade is not an ideal solution if next year someone pulls the fire alarm during the Masquerade and it gets cut short again because the follow-up events must start as scheduled. Until an official statement is made by the con chair as to why this decision was made then Masquerade attendees can only assume that this decision was seen as correct and would be repeated if necessary.

No one is touching on the core facts that all lead up to this ticking time bomb situation. The convention has grown far too large to be a hotel con and spreading all the events out across multiple hotels leaves some programming events with venues that are not ideally suited for their content or imposes logistics problems especially if there is an issue with equipment or a staff shortage.

#133 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:24 PM

Of course, the location is different, ACEN is in a suburb of Chicago and another is in downtown Atlanta, but Dragon*Con in Atlanta is spread across multiple downtown hotels, and that con is 45,000+. So, it's possible to touch on all the major hotels in the area, even just the ones on the skywalk system, rather than depending solely on the convention center for expansion.

THEN AGAIN, the other hotels probably see the mess and headache Hyatt is in after each ACEN and probably said no thanks to ACEN requests :)

This post has been edited by MH121: 06 May 2012 - 08:24 PM


#134 User is offline   Cricket 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:27 PM

I will agree IRT is understaffed, Sadly we keep playing catch up to the attendee numbers from the previous years in regards to ops vs numbers.

this year though was the largest staff ever.

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#135 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

After re reading and taking in everything that is being said here's a few suggestions that might help out. Lets start with the easy thing we can all agree on, the issue of the behavior of the people who on Saturday caused this ruckuss in the first place.

1)Put locks on the fire extigushers. Or at least find a way to keep people from using them in dumb ways. The best way I see is to put a lock on there where you have to break the glass to get it. I know that seems dumb, but it should stop someone from grabbing hold of the thing and useing it. Also what should be done is well, look at the hotel as a whole and see what's in the open where something could happen due to a dumb person playing with something. My thought is that if the people in question can't react to things as normal people would and behave like two yearolds, well then it's time to treat them like their two. I know this seems harsh for people who behave, "Why should my fun be taken away too." but if you have a group of morons that can't behave then you have to focus on that group and take care of them, then worry about the good people second.

Now on to the other parts.

As far as I can tell there's a mixed feeling about the Soap bubble, how about a compromise with it.

2Move the Soap Bubble to a later time and only allow 21 and older to enter.. Move back the time of the SB, this way you can have a longer Masq. Start it at 11pm or 10 rather then 9pm, this gives about an hour or two leaway for the Masq. The 21 and older time frame could be used as a means of dealing with the rodowdy 19 year olds that come from college. Also make it so that people need to get tickets to come to the bubble or stamps or bands. You have to show your Id, and maybe, as much as I hate to say this...breathalizer or some sort of test to see if the person is in any condition to be in the dance. Also if people are trying to buy the badges off others, maybe there's a way to scan the Badge to have info on the person that purchased the badge, this way it will say the persons name and age, and if the ID doesn't check with that info then that person isn't let into the dance, period. Also have an easy place to report people trying to buy badges off the street, and no promotion of the soap bubble in clubs and other areas around chicago, make it strickly other anime conventions.

3)Extend the Masqurade To make up for this year, extend the Masq and have it an extra hour. Also people that got jipped out this year should have more then just a comp badge. How about Acen paying for their room next year, or have some sort of special event where they could show off their skit, or something. Even an eleborate party of sorts for them.
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#136 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostCricket, on 06 May 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I will agree IRT is understaffed, Sadly we keep playing catch up to the attendee numbers from the previous years in regards to ops vs numbers.

this year though was the largest staff ever.


Actually, I am kind of surprised to see IRT everywhere and every direction I turn. So, to me, it seems like coverage is pretty good. I see the IRT jackets EVERYWHERE. Maybe I just congregate in "safe" areas :)

The problem, to me and some previous posters, is that it seems that the hard working folks in IRT don't seem to have the right (or enough) authority to do their work effectively. Of course, we cannot expect volunteers to do the work of real security guard and police. But, it's a setup that is designed for failure (and also an organizational bottleneck for people to direct the blames).

#137 User is offline   Cricket 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:34 PM

View PostBakaBarbarian, on 06 May 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

And don't get me wrong, I applaud the con staff for doing something proactive about the elevators. Just from the standpoint of disability access alone, it's a good move. But yes, it's yet another thing in the hands of volunteers who technically aren't allowed to do much of anything if someone is flagrantly abusive, drunk/high, etc.


There is a list of things we CAN do for instance.

Write down name/badge number and give a warning.
-Another warning is a visit to the pen to speak to the A/DH (MOD) to be handled.

If the situation warrants the attentions of MOD, call for back up, skip warning, escort to pen.
- if the person is drunk/high and could pose a danger to people, EMRT and/or MOD is called and things are handled as needed.

While normal ops can't threaten for a badge, we still have the ability to call our MOD's and get the people who CAN make a judgement call and luckily their response time is in minutes.

MH121> We could always use more for line control just to rotate people for shifts, i broke 16 hours on saturday.

This post has been edited by Cricket: 06 May 2012 - 08:37 PM


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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostMH121, on 06 May 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Of course, the location is different, ACEN is in a suburb of Chicago and another is in downtown Atlanta, but Dragon*Con in Atlanta is spread across multiple downtown hotels, and that con is 45,000+. So, it's possible to touch on all the major hotels in the area, even just the ones on the skywalk system, rather than depending solely on the convention center for expansion.

THEN AGAIN, the other hotels probably see the mess and headache Hyatt is in after each ACEN and probably said no thanks to ACEN requests :)


It really depends on the hotels. Most attendees aren't too bad, and from the source I have (Person has family that is management of the maid staff} this year they actually had pretty clean rooms thanks to the contest and also most don't wreck the rooms. It's only idiots that leave the place a mess that cause issues, a lot of attendees are pretty neat from what i've heard.
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#139 User is offline   MH121 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 06 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

3)Extend the Masqurade To make up for this year, extend the Masq and have it an extra hour. Also people that got jipped out this year should have more then just a comp badge. How about Acen paying for their room next year, or have some sort of special event where they could show off their skit, or something. Even an eleborate party of sorts for them.


Gosh, as someone who has been in masquerade for last several years in every con I have been to, please don't expend the time any longer :) There is only so much ceiling tiles I can count back in the green room or waiting area :)

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:46 PM

A Chicago based web pub had some press about ACen.
http://gapersblock.c...ime-central-12/

Quote

Saturday night's marquee event is the Masquerade, a three-hour block of costumes and skits with prizes on the line. Scheduled to start at 6pm, people began lining up at 5pm, but only at 8 does the slow file-in begin


#141 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:52 PM

View PostMH121, on 06 May 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Gosh, as someone who has been in masquerade for last several years in every con I have been to, please don't expend the time any longer :) There is only so much ceiling tiles I can count back in the green room or waiting area :)


Okay maybe not expanding the time, maybe there is some way to make the green room more fun? Twister? :balloons:

In all seriousness though there should be more to compensate for this event other then you know, a badge.
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#142 User is offline   SurvivalStrategy 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

Masquerade greenroom twister... what could possibly go wrong? (I'm imagining that sharp metal Gouf costume from last year)

View PostMH121, on 06 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

From the person who handled Soapbubble, he stated on Facebook's ACEN group that all DJs at Soapbubble are volunteers, not paid.
Really? Then I take back everything I said about DJs, although I will instead complain that Acen is padding the guest of honor list with volunteers while paying for less guests than ever, which is even more of an eyebrow-raiser... o.O But really, they weren't even VIP-suited? There wouldn't have been any of the financial loss anyone was talking about? From everything I've heard I'm just a little skeptical about this, but I don't think anyone on staff would lie about this, nor do I think there would be any shortage of volunteer DJs, so I accept that explanation.

View PostXenoBlade, on 06 May 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Well let me ask you this (cuz it is pointless to keep debating since neither one of us will budge) why do you think they cut the masq over the soap bubble?
Because of what you are saying. Because people generally perceive the rave as ten times bigger than the masquerade and/or as what most people go to Acen for. Neither is true, but it is true that a lot of people feel this way, presumably on every level of Acen including management.

View PostXenoBlade, on 06 May 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

To add, if the con isn't making much money off of the soap bubble, why is it still there? If it is more trouble then it is worth, why is it still on the menu? I dislike the soap bubble as a lot of people do, but there has to be a good value seeing how the bubble gets pretty good treatment every year.
There are a couple of things here. First, the soap bubble is tradition too, I'm not saying cut it and I sure hope management for a non-profit con isn't going to cut anything that doesn't generate revenue. Second, Acen doesn't generate revenue. It's a non-profit. That means they're not trying to make a profit. That means the main reason they're making the rave bigger is because more people are going and that seems logical to me. But, in spite of the rave being undeniably large, it still falls short of the largeness a lot of people seem to think it possesses.

This post has been edited by SurvivalStrategy: 06 May 2012 - 09:58 PM


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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:08 PM

View PostSurvivalStrategy, on 06 May 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Masquerade greenroom twister... what could possibly go wrong? (I'm imagining that sharp metal Gouf costume from last year)
Really? Then I take back everything I said about DJs, although I will instead complain that Acen is padding the guest of honor list with volunteers while paying for less guests than ever, which is even more of an eyebrow-raiser... o.O But really, they weren't even VIP-suited? There wouldn't have been any of the financial loss anyone was talking about? From everything I've heard I'm just a little skeptical about this, but I don't think anyone on staff would lie about this, nor do I think there would be any shortage of volunteer DJs, so I accept that explanation.
Because of what you are saying. Because people generally perceive the rave as ten times bigger than the masquerade and/or as what most people go to Acen for. Neither is true, but it is true that a lot of people feel this way, presumably on every level of Acen including management.
There are a couple of things here. First, the soap bubble is tradition too, I'm not saying cut it and I sure hope management for a non-profit con isn't going to cut anything that doesn't generate revenue. Second, Acen doesn't generate revenue. It's a non-profit. That means they're not trying to make a profit. That means the main reason they're making the rave bigger is because more people are going and that seems logical to me. But, in spite of the rave being undeniably large, it still falls short of the largeness a lot of people seem to think it possesses.


How does "people perceiving" get the Masq cut? So you are telling me the heads are ignoring numbers because people are perceiving the soap bubble being bigger?

And I am aware it is non-profit, but I meant as money used towards convention items, such as guests and renting the hyatt and convention center. Thought that would be implied, and not that they pocket money.
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#144 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:00 PM

View PostSurvivalStrategy, on 06 May 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Masquerade greenroom twister... what could possibly go wrong? (I'm imagining that sharp metal Gouf costume from last year)


Ment more as a joke then anything else. Honestly the issue more or less for me would be, if the rave lasts so late, why not just push it back a few more hours, say to eleven, or ten and then let the masq have some extra time if needed.

I'd also like those town hall meetings brought back.
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#145 User is offline   vika838 

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:25 PM

I also think having the dances all on one night is an interesting idea, and could possibly solve any number of issues. However...think of all the revenue that is generated from the people buying single day badges just to attend these events. If you lump all the dances into one day than that's that many fewer single day badges sold, and somehow I don't see anyone in charge being willing to make a major cut in the profits. Sad, but true.
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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:40 AM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 06 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

1)Put locks on the fire extigushers. Or at least find a way to keep people from using them in dumb ways. The best way I see is to put a lock on there where you have to break the glass to get it.


I think physically locking fire extinguishers away from people would be going against fire codes. Putting them behind glass would be up to the Hyatt and whether or not they want to foot the bill to revamp the mounting of every single fire extinguisher in the hotel (which would be quite costly).
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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:34 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 06 May 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

How does "people perceiving" get the Masq cut? So you are telling me the heads are ignoring numbers because people are perceiving the soap bubble being bigger?

And I am aware it is non-profit, but I meant as money used towards convention items, such as guests and renting the hyatt and convention center. Thought that would be implied, and not that they pocket money.



Not 'paying' DJs doesn't mean they aren't paid to be brought in. if guests aren't local there's still the travel costs. no idea where any of them are from (plus i've been gone from con management long enough that I never dealt with any guest 'appearance fees' as part of guest expenditures ), but guest travel and accomodations are pretty significant.

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

View Postvika838, on 06 May 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

I also think having the dances all on one night is an interesting idea, and could possibly solve any number of issues. However...think of all the revenue that is generated from the people buying single day badges just to attend these events. If you lump all the dances into one day than that's that many fewer single day badges sold, and somehow I don't see anyone in charge being willing to make a major cut in the profits. Sad, but true.


Yeah, as mentioned just after the con finished, the party dances could be the headline of Friday night...partying right into the weekend.

As for Saturday, the midday/late afternoon headline could be a large concert..followed up by the Masq, then with a major late night event, ie Anime Hell with say, the "formal" Ball that night as well.

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 06 May 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

How does "people perceiving" get the Masq cut? So you are telling me the heads are ignoring numbers because people are perceiving the soap bubble being bigger?
What numbers? As far as I can tell, the only numbers that are actually taken are the fire safety numbers by IRT, which we both agree isn't an exact headcount. If they were even looking at the numbers to make decisions, they'd probably be taking better ones. So this is what I'm saying:
-FACT 1: People feel the rave is huge.
-FACT 2: Management is people too.
-JOKE 1: Management doesn't employ psychics anymore.
-CONCLUSION 1: Therefore, people in management may feel the rave is huge.
-CONCLUSION 2: When called upon to make a quick decision, someone might feel the rave is gargantuan and warrants the hours it ended up getting vs. the masquerade.
-CAVEAT: It doesn't.
-SOLUTION: Stop assuming that thing.

View PostXenoBlade, on 06 May 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

And I am aware it is non-profit, but I meant as money used towards convention items, such as guests and renting the hyatt and convention center. Thought that would be implied, and not that they pocket money.
Unless Acen is secretly massively in debt, they already have enough money to pay for these things every year. They had it when badge income was half what it is now. Most of the added cost to Acen is probably the increased attendance every year, so trying to raise attendance in order to "make money" is self-defeating. Now it would be cool if they tried to raise a lot of money to get cooler guests, but I see no evidence that's really prioritized by anyone outside of guest relations...

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:32 AM

View Postrondo, on 07 May 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Yeah, as mentioned just after the con finished, the party dances could be the headline of Friday night...partying right into the weekend.

As for Saturday, the midday/late afternoon headline could be a large concert..followed up by the Masq, then with a major late night event, ie Anime Hell with say, the "formal" Ball that night as well.



<3 This I completely and totally think could work.

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