[minecraftsmurf]

cactusmomma, on 16 May 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

First question: How many of you have relatives on cash benefits or food stamps?

Secondly: How many of you know the requirements to receive food stamp benefits in your state and in the same vein, keep them?

Thirdly: Do you know the reason people are on government assistance?

What I know from first-hand experiences:
Third: Simple. Life happens. Not everyone can afford food from their $8.50 an hour job. Their jobs laid them off due to the economy or downsizing.. sometimes the tips that saddle up their $2.16 waitressing wage have been short.. or they only get 15 hours a week at work.. they may have been in an accident that prevents them from working.. they have been born with a disability and their SSI doesn't quite cover enough. It can happen to anyone.. your own parents may have been on them at some point.

Second: Here in Indiana, all finances are accounted for: Copies of bank accounts are taken, all assets.. cars, houses, retirement funds, child support, etcetc.. all earning are accounted into the budget.. if a person makes $110 a month, a family of three takes home around $500 in food stamps.. a person makes $600 a month, the family of 3 will take home around $97. Regardless of any bills that need to be paid, the amount is static. For medicaid, adults cannot qualify if their entire family wages is over (I believe) around $108 a month.. if their minor kids are on disability, it all counts towards their final funds. For children, they have state caseworkers that call up every 3 weeks to make sure the kids are getting their checkups and visits taken care of, asking about their wellness and literally taking over their health profiles (the calls take a minimum of 30 minutes each time. Really annoying.. though, my daughter's caseworker is freaking adorable.) Every 3 months, the cases are pulled in for review. If even one dollar isn't accounted for or if something is entered into the computers wrongly (Happens way more than it should..), a person can lose their benefits. Food stamps here can buy food.. it cannot buy toiletry goods, none of the funds can be drawn out as cash, it cannot buy alcohol, pet food, or smokes. For those people saying 'oh, they should only be allowed to buy healthy foods!' ...consider how expensive natural and healthy foods can be and how expensive it can be to make an entire meal. For those saying 'well, these people buy the more expensive brands..' ...well then, that's their fault and they will have to deal with ramen at the end of the month. Once it's gone, it's gone. So what if the people buy some candy or chips? They're human too. Take a household that has $20 for the next 2 weeks, which NEEDS to be used for gas? What if their kid is having a birthday? What if the people who receive stamps have company coming and would like to offer something for their guests to nibble on and don't want them to know that they're on hard times? What about the women that get horrible sugar cravings during their pms days and chocolate is the only way to save her partner's sanity and life?

First: Using some examples of people I know and have met during the years I was a cashier in a grocery store and from my doctors' offices..
- Woman in her 40's on medicaid. She received a letter saying she was going to be cut off of it because she hadn't been able to get to her neurologist appointment due to car problems. She is recovering from 2 brain tumors and works part-time.

- Family of 5, the father works full time, the mother is disabled. We have a type of insurance here called the Healthy Indiana Plan.. it's like medicaid, but the adults pay into it monthly at an extremely discounted rate. It only covers medical, no vision/dental. The adults' cases were tied to their food stamp case. HIP put in that the father quit a job he never had, which triggered a sanction on their food stamps. The mother and father had to share their budget amount, choosing not to sacrifice the quality of food/nutrition their kids were getting. Both parents were malnourished for almost 6 months before the state did anything about it.

- Legally blind woman.. usually gets around $120 a month for food.. her disability was entered into their computers incorrectly and her benefits were dropped to $18 for that month. She couldn't get the rest of the money for that month since she had received something. Thankfully, everything was corrected the next month.

- 35-year-old woman, met her when she was about to have a hearing for her HIP account.. they cancelled it because she was short by 14 cents.


All-in-all, I see drug testing as necessary if there is probable cause. Not everyone on welfare is a lazy deviant. They need to use that money to fix the system in place before pulling in another clustertrash.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the welfare system should be abolished and let Charity take over. But... that would make me, by default, an evil, racist, christian, conservative. And, now that the church is deemed evil, and a large portion of the population is either anti-religion, or just does not care, the ideals of Charity would fail. Also, now that there is a cap on individual donations to Charities resolving in tax cuts... a large double digit percent of donations has decreased.

After all, not that long ago, something called "Natural Selection" played out its importance in nature. ;D In fact, "Natural Selection" and "Mutations" are in essence the reason nature progresses and evolves.

However... no, ultimately (probably in the near future), nature will impose the ideals of "Natural Selection" whether the self-important, self-entitled, participation trophy generation humanitarians like it or not... Thus the progress and advancement of this worlds creatures will continue.

[Dark Stranger]

cactusmomma, on 16 May 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

First question: How many of you have relatives on cash benefits or food stamps?

Secondly: How many of you know the requirements to receive food stamp benefits in your state and in the same vein, keep them?

Thirdly: Do you know the reason people are on government assistance?

What I know from first-hand experiences:
Third: Simple. Life happens. Not everyone can afford food from their $8.50 an hour job. Their jobs laid them off due to the economy or downsizing.. sometimes the tips that saddle up their $2.16 waitressing wage have been short.. or they only get 15 hours a week at work.. they may have been in an accident that prevents them from working.. they have been born with a disability and their SSI doesn't quite cover enough. It can happen to anyone.. your own parents may have been on them at some point.

Second: Here in Indiana, all finances are accounted for: Copies of bank accounts are taken, all assets.. cars, houses, retirement funds, child support, etcetc.. all earning are accounted into the budget.. if a person makes $110 a month, a family of three takes home around $500 in food stamps.. a person makes $600 a month, the family of 3 will take home around $97. Regardless of any bills that need to be paid, the amount is static. For medicaid, adults cannot qualify if their entire family wages is over (I believe) around $108 a month.. if their minor kids are on disability, it all counts towards their final funds. For children, they have state caseworkers that call up every 3 weeks to make sure the kids are getting their checkups and visits taken care of, asking about their wellness and literally taking over their health profiles (the calls take a minimum of 30 minutes each time. Really annoying.. though, my daughter's caseworker is freaking adorable.) Every 3 months, the cases are pulled in for review. If even one dollar isn't accounted for or if something is entered into the computers wrongly (Happens way more than it should..), a person can lose their benefits. Food stamps here can buy food.. it cannot buy toiletry goods, none of the funds can be drawn out as cash, it cannot buy alcohol, pet food, or smokes. For those people saying 'oh, they should only be allowed to buy healthy foods!' ...consider how expensive natural and healthy foods can be and how expensive it can be to make an entire meal. For those saying 'well, these people buy the more expensive brands..' ...well then, that's their fault and they will have to deal with ramen at the end of the month. Once it's gone, it's gone. So what if the people buy some candy or chips? They're human too. Take a household that has $20 for the next 2 weeks, which NEEDS to be used for gas? What if their kid is having a birthday? What if the people who receive stamps have company coming and would like to offer something for their guests to nibble on and don't want them to know that they're on hard times? What about the women that get horrible sugar cravings during their pms days and chocolate is the only way to save her partner's sanity and life?

ok.
Yes I do know someone who was on a food stamp program. My parents. Money was always tight with our family. Then when our mom got pregnant with my sister they knew they couldn't afford it. So they got on WIC and food stamps. (not sure how much they got though cuz I was only nine at the time). We got off it after she was 5 and never got on it again. THAT'S how the system is suppose to work. It's suppose to saftey net. Not a hammok that you lie in. The people that are on it now just stay on it forever. They don't try and get out. They have a kid and then they need foodstamps. Sure ok, that's fine, but then they just have another, and another and another and just use that to get more and more money. There just needs to be a limit on how much you get and that's final. Doesn't matter how many kids you have.

[cactusmomma]

minecraftsmurf, on 16 May 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

In my personal opinion, I believe that the welfare system should be abolished and let Charity take over. But... that would make me, by default, an evil, racist, christian, conservative. And, now that the church is deemed evil, and a large portion of the population is either anti-religion, or just does not care, the ideals of Charity would fail. Also, now that there is a cap on individual donations to Charities resolving in tax cuts... a large double digit percent of donations has decreased.

After all, not that long ago, something called "Natural Selection" played out its importance in nature. ;D In fact, "Natural Selection" and "Mutations" are in essence the reason nature progresses and evolves.

However... no, ultimately (probably in the near future), nature will impose the ideals of "Natural Selection" whether the self-important, self-entitled, participation trophy generation humanitarians like it or not... Thus the progress and advancement of this worlds creatures will continue.

I take complete offense to your post. Just thought you'd like to know that. And no, I'm not going to get into why, it will spark a completely different Pandora's box.

[minecraftsmurf]

cactusmomma, on 16 May 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

I take complete offense to your post. Just thought you'd like to know that. And no, I'm not going to get into why, it will spark a completely different Pandora's box.

Oh, I’m terribly sorry that I have offended you! *bows* I must go to confession! Wait… however, it seems that simply claiming to go to confession, by itself, in its essence, may in fact offend some people (just as saying I like to eat meat may offend someone) in today’s society, it is near impossible to not offend someone. *headdesk*

anyways! On a different note, I didn’t have any intentions to offend the easily offendable.

I was simply bringing up some realistic points, and scientific points. Sometimes, especially in the world of “science” the role of “feelings” need to be set aside and omitted to see a clearer picture.

For example, the ideals of Charity being a more efficient method to help support individuals whom have fallen into misfortune (being that’s it’s not self-onset) is not me claiming to invent that idea! In the past, that was the only ‘system’ to help individuals under the misfortune cloud. Much of it, was indeed inspired by religion.

Secondly, many corporations, private businesses, and individuals would donate large sums of goods and or currency to Charitable organization that directly ‘efficiently” aided those in need; in return for their charitable donations they would receive a tax relief (government aid programs are not as efficient as well run charitable organizations [Kony 2012 not being a well-run charitable organization]). Therefore, without incentive (and perhaps due to being required to pay more money in taxes) the charitable donations by corporations, private businesses, and individuals has drastically decreased due to the donation tax relief cap.

Now to science! Around 3.5 -3.85 billion years ago life began on earth (scientists believe the most likely place was ocean floors by volcanic vents). For billions of years life remained down there as single cell organisms eventually evolving and mutating into everything that we see today. This happened, only happened because of something called “Natural Selection” (the process by which forms oflife has traits that better enable them to adapt to specific environmental pressures, as predators, change in climate, or competition for food or mates, will tend to survive and reproduce in greater numbers than others of their kind, thus ensuring the perpetuation of those favorable traits in succeeding generations).

Natural selection is basically a “mutation” (simply errors in the copying process when a living cell replicates itself). Mutations are both good and bad (nature’s experimentation in essence). As thousands of mutations occur, a few are found to be beneficial and benefit future progression.

All of this still happens today; Everyday! We humans go through mutations (both good and bad) just as all our ancestor cells did. However, claiming mutations in today’s society is frowned upon… partly due to an inferiority complex. It is considered taboo to claim that one subject may in fact be better than another due to the ideals of “Natural Selection” and “Mutations” These things are not sudden! They take time! Today, scientists even believe that a frequently appearing mutation in human beings revolves around a lack of desire to engage in activities that may involve un-necessary risks. Everyone has that friend in their group that refuses to try that jump on a bike as a kid. Perhaps… it’s in his genetics! A ‘survival’ “Mutation” if you will.

[Kaay-chan]

Okay, I'm just about done with all of this. I've been lurking around reading this for a while now, and honestly, I'm getting sick of the attitude.

minecraftsmurf, you're entitled to your opinion. We all are. What you're not entitled to is this "holier than thou," "oh, your opinion is so cute so excuse me while I sip my coffee and stretch out a little before telling you why my opinion is more right" attitude of yours. I find your attitude over this entire ordeal more offensive than what you've been saying, and I've been finding a lot of what you've been saying pretty darn offensive.

Here's my counterpoint to your, well...everything. Your entire argument about leaving it to charities is crap, considering the fact that food pantries can barely keep their shelves stocked as it is. The reality is that with the unemployment rates the way they are right now, more and more people need to use them; at the same time, because of the economy, fewer and fewer people are donating. Now, given that fact, the food pantries wouldn't be able to handle the added demand for food from all of the people who, right now, are able to use welfare to pay for their groceries. And don't kid yourself by saying "well, if we didn't have to pay taxes for it, we'd have more money." No. The money that's currently being used for welfare would just go somewhere else; I'd like to think that the money would go towards worthy things such as supporting what I like to call The Other 1% (military families), programs to help our vets out, improving public schools, etc. etc, but honest? With the way both parties are behaving right now I don't have enough faith in our government to get my hopes up; all I know is that the money not being spent on welfare in your little fantasy land where charities handle everything on that end wouldn't magically find it's way into our pockets.

As for evolution? Consider this: human beings have evolved to the point where we are capable of considering the sanctity of life. We are a social species who's natural instinct is to take care of our own--some of us define that as our immediate circle of family and friends, while others of us define that as meaning that we all need to look out for our fellow man. Furthermore, needing to live off of welfare has nothing to do with evolution; whether a person has a job or not has nothing to do with natural selection. Yes, to some extent it has to do with how driven a person is to get a job and do it well, and at the end of the day if they fail to hold up to company standards they might get fired. However, if a company takes a hit from the economy, sometimes perfectly good employees loose their jobs for no other reason than because the lost the game of Russian Roulette when the powers that be had to make the difficult decision to cut down on personnel so that the company could stay afloat. It might not necessarily have anything to do with how good or bad of a worker they are, and then they might end up having difficulty getting a job simply because there's so much competition right now in the job market. Kindly explain to me where your "natural selection" is there, because honestly, I feel like right now that applies more to certain industries dying rather than whether or not people survive.

And both you and Dark Stranger need to kindly shut up with your stupid generalizations. I, for one, take HUGE offense when you say:

Quote

In my personal opinion, I believe that the welfare system should be abolished and let Charity take over. But... that would make me, by default, an evil, racist, christian, conservative. And, now that the church is deemed evil, and a large portion of the population is either anti-religion, or just does not care, the ideals of Charity would fail.

Conservatives are not evil. Liberals are not evil. What religion you define yourself as does not make you evil and religion, in and of itself, is not evil. Nobody would attack you for being conservative, or Christian, and thinking that charity should take over neither racist nor evil, simply unrealistic. What is evil is is extremism, which I'm afraid you're getting dangerously close to. When people become so steeped in their own ideals that they refuse to even listen to what other people have to say, that's when something becomes evil. The problem is, our country is so steeped in extremism right now, if only because the extremists on both sides are so much more vocal, that everyone's talking and nobody's listening so nothing's getting done. I really wish more people could be like an English teacher I had back in my senior year high school: we were working on our research papers and the kid behind me was doing his on tax code. He and I ended up in a three way debate over the issue with the teacher. We were both liberals (although our philosophies were different) and she was a Republican. The conversation ended with her telling me that, while she didn't agree with me, she understood where I was coming from. She was one of my favorite teachers and I will never forget that conversation.


As for implying that

Quote

The people that are on it now just stay on it forever. They don't try and get out. They have a kid and then they need foodstamps. Sure ok, that's fine, but then they just have another, and another and another and just use that to get more and more money.

That's just stupid. Saying that is like saying that all Catholics are biggots, or all Jews are rich, or all Muslims are terrorists, or that all conservatives are gun toting war mongers or all liberals are pot smoking hippies. Or that all anime fans are overweight, socially inept losers with some kind of mental "defect" that live in their mothers basement because they're incapable of doing anything worthwhile in their lives and they spend all of their money on overpriced anime merchandise. Let's face it: the stereotype exists. But we all KNOW that that isn't true, especially the last one, because some of us are functioning adults with jobs and families and others of us are college students typing out our posts from our college dorms and hoping that our stupid college internet doesn't crap out on us when we have so much work that needs to be done within the next week before (and during) finals, and others of us are high school students who can't wait to be done with high school so they can move out from under their parents' roofs and begin living their adult lives.

So kindly shut up with repeating the same generalizations over and over again as if that will make them true, and drop the attitudes. And hope that the lightning never strikes and you never end up needing to rely on welfare yourself.

And for the record, this applies to everyone, not just the people I mentioned by name.

[Kii]

I'm not really sure how "natural selection" plays a role in whether or not somebody should receive welfare or not.
Funny how quickly these discussions completely derail so that a few people can play verbal king-of-the-hill about something completely irrelevant.
But if we've already gone there, the word "charity" doesn't need to be capitalized. It isn't a proper noun. Neither does the phrase "natural selection", "mutations", etc. Sorry, it was bothering me. I honestly could barely even think about the points you were making at first with all of those distractions.Moving on, Minecraftsmurf, your very crude and basic knowledge of natural selection isn't really getting your point across as well as I think you might have hoped.
Mostly because it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
So maybe it's time to simmer down, and let the grown-ups discuss these things.

This post has been edited by Kii: 17 May 2012 - 03:02 AM

[cactusmomma]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

considering the fact that food pantries can barely keep their shelves stocked as it is.

Thank you, you stated this better than I could have. As someone who has volunteered at pantries, I can entirely vouch for this. Most of what people donate are 60 cent cans of green beans, corn, carrots, and peas. I don't know about you, but if I ended up with 12 extra cans of veggies a month with no meat to go with it and no other choice about it, I'd be pretty upset. I'd eat it, but damn.. I wouldn't be happy about it.

[YoungBirdcall]

minecraftsmurf, on 17 May 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Oh, I’m terribly sorry that I have offended you! *bows* I must go to confession! Wait… however, it seems that simply claiming to go to confession, by itself, in its essence, may in fact offend some people (just as saying I like to eat meat may offend someone) in today’s society, it is near impossible to not offend someone. *headdesk*

anyways! On a different note, I didn’t have any intentions to offend the easily offendable.

I was simply bringing up some realistic points, and scientific points. Sometimes, especially in the world of “science” the role of “feelings” need to be set aside and omitted to see a clearer picture.

For example, the ideals of Charity being a more efficient method to help support individuals whom have fallen into misfortune (being that’s it’s not self-onset) is not me claiming to invent that idea! In the past, that was the only ‘system’ to help individuals under the misfortune cloud. Much of it, was indeed inspired by religion.

Secondly, many corporations, private businesses, and individuals would donate large sums of goods and or currency to Charitable organization that directly ‘efficiently” aided those in need; in return for their charitable donations they would receive a tax relief (government aid programs are not as efficient as well run charitable organizations [Kony 2012 not being a well-run charitable organization]). Therefore, without incentive (and perhaps due to being required to pay more money in taxes) the charitable donations by corporations, private businesses, and individuals has drastically decreased due to the donation tax relief cap.

Now to science! Around 3.5 -3.85 billion years ago life began on earth (scientists believe the most likely place was ocean floors by volcanic vents). For billions of years life remained down there as single cell organisms eventually evolving and mutating into everything that we see today. This happened, only happened because of something called “Natural Selection” (the process by which forms oflife has traits that better enable them to adapt to specific environmental pressures, as predators, change in climate, or competition for food or mates, will tend to survive and reproduce in greater numbers than others of their kind, thus ensuring the perpetuation of those favorable traits in succeeding generations).

Natural selection is basically a “mutation” (simply errors in the copying process when a living cell replicates itself). Mutations are both good and bad (nature’s experimentation in essence). As thousands of mutations occur, a few are found to be beneficial and benefit future progression.

All of this still happens today; Everyday! We humans go through mutations (both good and bad) just as all our ancestor cells did. However, claiming mutations in today’s society is frowned upon… partly due to an inferiority complex. It is considered taboo to claim that one subject may in fact be better than another due to the ideals of “Natural Selection” and “Mutations” These things are not sudden! They take time! Today, scientists even believe that a frequently appearing mutation in human beings revolves around a lack of desire to engage in activities that may involve un-necessary risks. Everyone has that friend in their group that refuses to try that jump on a bike as a kid. Perhaps… it’s in his genetics! A ‘survival’ “Mutation” if you will.

This post has been edited by YoungBirdcall: 17 May 2012 - 10:54 AM

[minecraftsmurf]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Okay, I'm just about done with all of this. I've been lurking around reading this for a while now, and honestly, I'm getting sick of the attitude.

minecraftsmurf, you're entitled to your opinion. We all are. What you're not entitled to is this "holier than thou," "oh, your opinion is so cute so excuse me while I sip my coffee and stretch out a little before telling you why my opinion is more right" attitude of yours. I find your attitude over this entire ordeal more offensive than what you've been saying, and I've been finding a lot of what you've been saying pretty darn offensive.

Here's my counterpoint to your, well...everything. Your entire argument about leaving it to charities is crap, considering the fact that food pantries can barely keep their shelves stocked as it is. The reality is that with the unemployment rates the way they are right now, more and more people need to use them; at the same time, because of the economy, fewer and fewer people are donating. Now, given that fact, the food pantries wouldn't be able to handle the added demand for food from all of the people who, right now, are able to use welfare to pay for their groceries. And don't kid yourself by saying "well, if we didn't have to pay taxes for it, we'd have more money." No. The money that's currently being used for welfare would just go somewhere else; I'd like to think that the money would go towards worthy things such as supporting what I like to call The Other 1% (military families), programs to help our vets out, improving public schools, etc. etc, but honest? With the way both parties are behaving right now I don't have enough faith in our government to get my hopes up; all I know is that the money not being spent on welfare in your little fantasy land where charities handle everything on that end wouldn't magically find it's way into our pockets.

As for evolution? Consider this: human beings have evolved to the point where we are capable of considering the sanctity of life. We are a social species who's natural instinct is to take care of our own--some of us define that as our immediate circle of family and friends, while others of us define that as meaning that we all need to look out for our fellow man. Furthermore, needing to live off of welfare has nothing to do with evolution; whether a person has a job or not has nothing to do with natural selection. Yes, to some extent it has to do with how driven a person is to get a job and do it well, and at the end of the day if they fail to hold up to company standards they might get fired. However, if a company takes a hit from the economy, sometimes perfectly good employees loose their jobs for no other reason than because the lost the game of Russian Roulette when the powers that be had to make the difficult decision to cut down on personnel so that the company could stay afloat. It might not necessarily have anything to do with how good or bad of a worker they are, and then they might end up having difficulty getting a job simply because there's so much competition right now in the job market. Kindly explain to me where your "natural selection" is there, because honestly, I feel like right now that applies more to certain industries dying rather than whether or not people survive.

And both you and Dark Stranger need to kindly shut up with your stupid generalizations. I, for one, take HUGE offense when you say:



Conservatives are not evil. Liberals are not evil. What religion you define yourself as does not make you evil and religion, in and of itself, is not evil. Nobody would attack you for being conservative, or Christian, and thinking that charity should take over neither racist nor evil, simply unrealistic. What is evil is is extremism, which I'm afraid you're getting dangerously close to. When people become so steeped in their own ideals that they refuse to even listen to what other people have to say, that's when something becomes evil. The problem is, our country is so steeped in extremism right now, if only because the extremists on both sides are so much more vocal, that everyone's talking and nobody's listening so nothing's getting done. I really wish more people could be like an English teacher I had back in my senior year high school: we were working on our research papers and the kid behind me was doing his on tax code. He and I ended up in a three way debate over the issue with the teacher. We were both liberals (although our philosophies were different) and she was a Republican. The conversation ended with her telling me that, while she didn't agree with me, she understood where I was coming from. She was one of my favorite teachers and I will never forget that conversation.


As for implying that

That's just stupid. Saying that is like saying that all Catholics are biggots, or all Jews are rich, or all Muslims are terrorists, or that all conservatives are gun toting war mongers or all liberals are pot smoking hippies. Or that all anime fans are overweight, socially inept losers with some kind of mental "defect" that live in their mothers basement because they're incapable of doing anything worthwhile in their lives and they spend all of their money on overpriced anime merchandise. Let's face it: the stereotype exists. But we all KNOW that that isn't true, especially the last one, because some of us are functioning adults with jobs and families and others of us are college students typing out our posts from our college dorms and hoping that our stupid college internet doesn't crap out on us when we have so much work that needs to be done within the next week before (and during) finals, and others of us are high school students who can't wait to be done with high school so they can move out from under their parents' roofs and begin living their adult lives.

So kindly shut up with repeating the same generalizations over and over again as if that will make them true, and drop the attitudes. And hope that the lightning never strikes and you never end up needing to rely on welfare yourself.

And for the record, this applies to everyone, not just the people I mentioned by name.

*stretches letting out a little yelp* I'll read this when I return home and has coffee!! Too long for now.

[The Fujoshi]

Kaay-chan said:

You beat me to it ma'am, I just want to add on my two cents.

Mine, you was funny at first but now just stop. Like you went off the handle when you did the classic, "Liberals are evil! Conservatives are evil! Evolution and natural selection like this is World War II in Europe and Japan!" (Sorry if I offend anyone.)

Seriously humans are humans and life is a gamble; there is no "destiny, selection or what may have you," just luck. You can be rich as hell and end up eating beans from a can if luck doesn't go your way. How do I know? This happened to my uncle.

Charities? You're joking right? There are nice people out there but you just pointed out evolution and natural section and as far as I know natural section is: Survival of the fittest and being a self centered prick depending on how/when/where you was born. So Charity=/=survival of the fittest/natural section.

Also Dark Stranger, you are stereotyping. Just because something happened to you and you lucked out doesn't mean it happens to everyone. I have been on food stamps since my son was born. Mind you I was only getting 100-200 per month and I had to feed five-six people in a house at one point. I had a job, working 8.60 hr. and lost it due to powers outside of my control and even then I wasn't getting enough. I have been trying to find work since 2010 and the only thing I'm doing is job hunting and working part time at Mccomick. Now besides me and my mom there is nobody else in my family or my ex bf/son's father helping me. Mind you rent still has to be paid, which is 500-600 dollars, my son still needs special care because he's special needs, and other bills have to be paid, oh and we have to eat each month.

Also food pantries don't work. I have been to some and they give out random things. Mind you some times you get meat and good stuff but if you need things like eggs and milk you need to buy yourself. Also consider this: Tons of people are going to chruches for food pantries and at times you have to wait at 5am in order to get a place in line and something besides beans. Many times you have to go to several just to get food.

[Kaay-chan]

minecraftsmurf, on 17 May 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

*stretches letting out a little yelp* I'll read this when I return home and has coffee!! Too long for now.

*rereads her comments about your attitude, then rereads your response*

...




..........





......

Thank you, so much, for making my point for me.

[XenoBlade]

Reasons why talking about politics is taboo this thread is.

Tho if responses weren't so cheeky, and you actually debated without the sarcasm (and biased links), this wouldn't be as bad.

[minecraftsmurf]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Okay, I'm just about done with all of this. I've been lurking around reading this for a while now, and honestly, I'm getting sick of the attitude.

minecraftsmurf, you're entitled to your opinion. We all are. What you're not entitled to is this "holier than thou," "oh, your opinion is so cute so excuse me while I sip my coffee and stretch out a little before telling you why my opinion is more right" attitude of yours. I find your attitude over this entire ordeal more offensive than what you've been saying, and I've been finding a lot of what you've been saying pretty darn offensive.

*sets coffee cup next to overly sized headset, and puts out kettle of tea to cool off* Alright, alright, *cracks neck and back* lets get down to it!!

You see! That is exactly what is so enjoyable about individuals coming from different lifestyles sharing opinions (a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof)! An individual will either agree or disagree with an opinion. Any opinion is open to be admired or ridiculed and every opinion will ultimately offend someone. For example, someone saying something as simple as I like turtles, may offend someone who does not like turtles.

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Here's my counterpoint to your, well...everything. Your entire argument about leaving it to charities is crap, considering the fact that food pantries can barely keep their shelves stocked as it is. The reality is that with the unemployment rates the way they are right now, more and more people need to use them; at the same time, because of the economy, fewer and fewer people are donating. Now, given that fact, the food pantries wouldn't be able to handle the added demand for food from all of the people who, right now, are able to use welfare to pay for their groceries. And don't kid yourself by saying "well, if we didn't have to pay taxes for it, we'd have more money." No. The money that's currently being used for welfare would just go somewhere else; I'd like to think that the money would go towards worthy things such as supporting what I like to call The Other 1% (military families), programs to help our vets out, improving public schools, etc. etc, but honest? With the way both parties are behaving right now I don't have enough faith in our government to get my hopes up; all I know is that the money not being spent on welfare in your little fantasy land where charities handle everything on that end wouldn't magically find it's way into our pockets.

I agree, Charities would not be a sufficient method to support the 50,000,000 individuals on Medicaid (in 2008 17% increase from 2006 [higher now]), the 40,000,000 individuals on enrolled food stamp programs (in 2008 50% increase from 2006 [higher now]), the 15,000,000 who receive unemployment benefits (in 2008 18% increase from 2006 [much higher now]). There are the numbers for only 70 of the welfare programs funded by the federal government. Without our current population and numbers of individuals on government aid programs there is absolutely no way a charity base system would work. Me brining up that idea was based on a make believe perfect world and was not meant to be considered as a serious solution. However, I do believe a nation cannot continuously sustain government aid programs with recipients that add up to a double digit percentage of its population for an extended amount of time.

*pours myself a cup of tea in a fresh mug* such a beautiful day outside. I must admit jogging 10 miles continuously outside in the real world and not on my treadmill at the gym is much more difficult!!!! *rubs shins*

I also agree, any money that is saved in one place will be spent in a different one. That comes down to the major problem with having such a large government. Government ran programs are simply not efficient. They never have been, and never will be. The non-union private sector will always be able to provide a service of greater quality at a better price. Because… they have something called competition and a need to run efficiently.

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

As for evolution? Consider this: human beings have evolved to the point where we are capable of considering the sanctity of life. We are a social species who's natural instinct is to take care of our own--some of us define that as our immediate circle of family and friends, while others of us define that as meaning that we all need to look out for our fellow man. Furthermore, needing to live off of welfare has nothing to do with evolution; whether a person has a job or not has nothing to do with natural selection. Yes, to some extent it has to do with how driven a person is to get a job and do it well, and at the end of the day if they fail to hold up to company standards they might get fired. However, if a company takes a hit from the economy, sometimes perfectly good employees loose their jobs for no other reason than because the lost the game of Russian Roulette when the powers that be had to make the difficult decision to cut down on personnel so that the company could stay afloat. It might not necessarily have anything to do with how good or bad of a worker they are, and then they might end up having difficulty getting a job simply because there's so much competition right now in the job market. Kindly explain to me where your "natural selection" is there, because honestly, I feel like right now that applies more to certain industries dying rather than whether or not people survive.

Scientific theory is interesting because there are so many endpoints that we simply do not yet understand. Scientific theory omits ‘emotions’ in order to progress.

However, I disagree regarding your statement regarding luck. I believe ‘determination’ is far more influential and grander than merely luck. A determined individual becomes successful because of their own perseverance, knowledge, dedication and will to succeed not a “yay! I got lucky and found a good job!” A successful individual gambles yes, but they do it with knowledge. They relentlessly pursue progression and find ways to bring the ‘odds’ to their side.

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

And both you and Dark Stranger need to kindly shut up with your stupid generalizations. I, for one, take HUGE offense when you say:

Unnecessary roughness (well, I suppose this is not a sport! ). I as a ‘victim’ feel threatened by your excessive hostility! However, I choose to remain calm and continue spending time out of my busy day to try and communicate with you level headedly.

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Conservatives are not evil. Liberals are not evil. What religion you define yourself as does not make you evil and religion, in and of itself, is not evil. Nobody would attack you for being conservative, or Christian, and thinking that charity should take over neither racist nor evil, simply unrealistic. What is evil is is extremism, which I'm afraid you're getting dangerously close to. When people become so steeped in their own ideals that they refuse to even listen to what other people have to say, that's when something becomes evil. The problem is, our country is so steeped in extremism right now, if only because the extremists on both sides are so much more vocal, that everyone's talking and nobody's listening so nothing's getting done. I really wish more people could be like an English teacher I had back in my senior year high school: we were working on our research papers and the kid behind me was doing his on tax code. He and I ended up in a three way debate over the issue with the teacher. We were both liberals (although our philosophies were different) and she was a Republican. The conversation ended with her telling me that, while she didn't agree with me, she understood where I was coming from. She was one of my favorite teachers and I will never forget that conversation.

I agree! Conservatives are not evil! Liberal ideals on the other hand… in my biased ‘opinion’ Oh, and I agree what religion or lack of religion an individual is involved with does not make them evil or good.

However, I get attacked all the time for being conservative and Christian. Just as others get attacked for being liberal and being a member of whatever type of religious group or lack of they support. I am, by default in the minds of many individuals, simply because I am a Conservative Christian as being stereotyped as “racist, greedy, in-humane, and others). Just as others are stereotyped. Therefore I no longer complain or protest against it.

That’s true! I tell people in real life that I disagree with them; however I understand where they are coming from all the time… daily. But I will be honest, just like everyone else. Those are just words to dodge confrontations. In the professional word and in the public’s eye, we are required to be continuously ‘two-faced.’ Meaning we say things we do not truly believe in. Especially in my place of employment, I dodge all political confrontations and all disagreements with individuals by sly telling them simply what they want to hear. However, as soon as they turn their backs, I laugh a little inside thinking of what I really wanted to say and thought. People can deny that…. But we are all two-faced. Some more than others.

I believe I have been playing by the rules. I have used no vulgar language (nor have I tried to hide such language with altered typing / characters), I have not directly targeted anyone or labeled anyone’s “opinions” as ‘negative’ as they have targeted me. And ultimately I have found every minute of typing and reading posts on this topic that I started enjoyable… if I did not find it enjoyable… I would not continue to read or waste my time posting. I would browse the 100’s of other topics.

*looks at empty tea kettle* I guess its almost time to go swimming and of course sit in the hottub! ^^

[minecraftsmurf]

The Fujoshi, on 17 May 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Seriously humans are humans and life is a gamble; there is no "destiny, selection or what may have you," just luck. You can be rich as hell and end up eating beans from a can if luck doesn't go your way. How do I know? This happened to my uncle.

*picks up empty tea kettle with a sad face* *eyes kitty trying to sneak up and lay down on my keyboard* no kitty!! My keyboard! You can't has it!

I agree! "There is no destiny" as individuals are free to make decisions and choose their future! It's not selected upon birth (at least not in America). If an individual succeeds it is not their fault that they succeeded... it's their fault if they failed! ^^

The Fujoshi, on 17 May 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Charities? You're joking right? There are nice people out there but you just pointed out evolution and natural section and as far as I know natural section is: Survival of the fittest and being a self centered prick depending on how/when/where you was born. So Charity=/=survival of the fittest/natural section.

I has answered this in my post before this. ^^ *picks up kitty off mouse and sets gently on couch* stay kitty!

[minecraftsmurf]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

*rereads her comments about your attitude, then rereads your response*

...




..........





......

Thank you, so much, for making my point for me.

*sits down in baiting suite* New two piece! It's difficult finding good fitting bathing suits for a girl that's 5'10" and 132 ibs -.-

Oh sorry, back on topic! No problem! Anytime you need my help, helping you make a point. Just let me know! I will gladly help! ^^

[cactusmomma]

I'm making my point now. Cut it out on the sarcasm, it isn't doing you any favors and is ticking everyone off.

[minecraftsmurf]

cactusmomma, on 17 May 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

I'm making my point now. Cut it out on the sarcasm, it isn't doing you any favors and is ticking everyone off.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by sarcasm? I don't believe I have broken any of the set rules or guidelines, nor have I targeted individuals telling them to "Shut up" as I have been targeted. I am simply responding to the hostile comments towards me in a proper manor. Please do the same.

[Kaay-chan]

minecraftsmurf, on 17 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by sarcasm? I don't believe I have broken any of the set rules or guidelines, nor have I targeted individuals telling them to "Shut up" as I have been targeted. I am simply responding to the hostile comments towards me in a proper manor. Please do the same.

You may not consider your sarcasm as hostile, but it is. The reason we're telling you to shut up has more to do with your attitude than your actual point. Sarcasm and a holier than thou attitude are hardly the "proper manor" to respond to what one might conceive as hostile comments. Your refusal to even acknowledge the fact that you're being, let's be honest, a total a-hole just proves everything. I tell you that while you ARE entitled to your opinion, your attitude needs to stop. What do you respond to? The fact that you agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm sorry that you feel attacked. Know that at least some of us are attacking you less because of what you're saying and more because of what you are saying. Your attitude is unnecessary and far more offensive than anything you've been saying. When someone gives attitude during a debate, it's really hard, if not impossible, to take that person seriously. Your profile doesn't say your age, so I have no way of knowing how old you are, but I'm willing to bet that at least some people in this conversation are older than you, have more life experiences than you, and know a little bit more about what they're talking about than you do; your attitude makes me think that maybe even I'm older than you (or at the very least more mature) and if not, then congratulations, your behavior caused you to be mistaken for someone under the age of 21.


TL;DR: Your attitude makes it abundantly clear that you don't respect us, and if you aren't going to at least pretend to respect us, why should we respect you?

[minecraftsmurf]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

You may not consider your sarcasm as hostile, but it is. The reason we're telling you to shut up has more to do with your attitude than your actual point. Sarcasm and a holier than thou attitude are hardly the "proper manor" to respond to what one might conceive as hostile comments. Your refusal to even acknowledge the fact that you're being, let's be honest, a total a-hole just proves everything. I tell you that while you ARE entitled to your opinion, your attitude needs to stop. What do you respond to? The fact that you agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm sorry that you feel attacked. Know that at least some of us are attacking you less because of what you're saying and more because of what you are saying. Your attitude is unnecessary and far more offensive than anything you've been saying. When someone gives attitude during a debate, it's really hard, if not impossible, to take that person seriously. Your profile doesn't say your age, so I have no way of knowing how old you are, but I'm willing to bet that at least some people in this conversation are older than you, have more life experiences than you, and know a little bit more about what they're talking about than you do; your attitude makes me think that maybe even I'm older than you (or at the very least more mature) and if not, then congratulations, your behavior caused you to be mistaken for someone under the age of 21.


TL;DR: Your attitude makes it abundantly clear that you don't respect us, and if you aren't going to at least pretend to respect us, why should we respect you?

It's all good! I am not offended. You guys can't hurt my "feelings" over the internet on a forums website and a popular convention that we all attend. idc, if you guys call me names, or disagree with my opinions... I'm not going to stop my feet and get all ruffled up over it. She offended me!! It's the end of the world! I must sit down and note how this person has offended me... even though, in a few min I shall have completely forgotten about it.

I put little emotes into my typing... why because its fun.... i am a human, like all of you, I sip coffee when I am typing, my cat tries to lay on my keyboard, I do things in real life like jog and go swimming, and sometimes I loose focus, or take breaks in between statements.... pls don't act like you have never sipped on a drink while browsing forums...

However, it seems people can not have fun... with this topic.... therefore, I shall let this account die. Don't worry I will be back! I got a new OS I want to try, so I will simply pull my router, and modem, and reset them, than plug them back in and make a new account in a week or so. And try again... I simply came here to try and make friends... not make people get upset over what I type on the interweb.

*sips coffee while staring down my cat preparing to pounce on meh!*

You guys need to lighten up, get some fresh air... only engage in topics... that you feel you can have fun talking and arguing about.... if it's a topic you don't like... dont get involved with it. just like in real life.

have fun! This minecraft smurf account shall die, ill be back with a real pic up too ^^

[Scott]

On a related note:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Every single citizen has over $50,000 dollars hanging over their head. Every actual taxpayer has over $138,000 hanging over their head. Who here has that money and wants to donate it to the government right now to reduce our debts? Just keep in mind your tab will start adding up right after you paid up. That's how we roll here.

I think that is evidence enough that our current system doesn't function properly and it needs to be modified or more likely drastically changed.


Back to the title of this thread "Georgia to require drug test for welfare benefits"

If drug tests cost less than the savings to the government in claim payments, I'm all for it. If the numbers don't add up and it actually costs more to test individuals, I think it is a bad idea. It should really be that simple. Using illegal drugs is... illegal, so that's reason enough for the requirement. However, like I said, if the numbers don't add up, it shouldn't be done.

Simple logic such as that should be the basis of how things or managed, yet we have elected officials that don't seem to understand you can't buy something you don't have the money for. Buying on credit just makes matters worse, because the person lending the money will want interest.

This post has been edited by Scott: 17 May 2012 - 10:48 PM

[Dark Stranger]

Kaay-chan, on 17 May 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Okay, I'm just about done with all of this. I've been lurking around reading this for a while now, and honestly, I'm getting sick of the attitude.

minecraftsmurf, you're entitled to your opinion. We all are. What you're not entitled to is this "holier than thou," "oh, your opinion is so cute so excuse me while I sip my coffee and stretch out a little before telling you why my opinion is more right" attitude of yours. I find your attitude over this entire ordeal more offensive than what you've been saying, and I've been finding a lot of what you've been saying pretty darn offensive.

Here's my counterpoint to your, well...everything. Your entire argument about leaving it to charities is crap, considering the fact that food pantries can barely keep their shelves stocked as it is. The reality is that with the unemployment rates the way they are right now, more and more people need to use them; at the same time, because of the economy, fewer and fewer people are donating. Now, given that fact, the food pantries wouldn't be able to handle the added demand for food from all of the people who, right now, are able to use welfare to pay for their groceries. And don't kid yourself by saying "well, if we didn't have to pay taxes for it, we'd have more money." No. The money that's currently being used for welfare would just go somewhere else; I'd like to think that the money would go towards worthy things such as supporting what I like to call The Other 1% (military families), programs to help our vets out, improving public schools, etc. etc, but honest? With the way both parties are behaving right now I don't have enough faith in our government to get my hopes up; all I know is that the money not being spent on welfare in your little fantasy land where charities handle everything on that end wouldn't magically find it's way into our pockets.

As for evolution? Consider this: human beings have evolved to the point where we are capable of considering the sanctity of life. We are a social species who's natural instinct is to take care of our own--some of us define that as our immediate circle of family and friends, while others of us define that as meaning that we all need to look out for our fellow man. Furthermore, needing to live off of welfare has nothing to do with evolution; whether a person has a job or not has nothing to do with natural selection. Yes, to some extent it has to do with how driven a person is to get a job and do it well, and at the end of the day if they fail to hold up to company standards they might get fired. However, if a company takes a hit from the economy, sometimes perfectly good employees loose their jobs for no other reason than because the lost the game of Russian Roulette when the powers that be had to make the difficult decision to cut down on personnel so that the company could stay afloat. It might not necessarily have anything to do with how good or bad of a worker they are, and then they might end up having difficulty getting a job simply because there's so much competition right now in the job market. Kindly explain to me where your "natural selection" is there, because honestly, I feel like right now that applies more to certain industries dying rather than whether or not people survive.

And both you and Dark Stranger need to kindly shut up with your stupid generalizations. I, for one, take HUGE offense when you say:



Conservatives are not evil. Liberals are not evil. What religion you define yourself as does not make you evil and religion, in and of itself, is not evil. Nobody would attack you for being conservative, or Christian, and thinking that charity should take over neither racist nor evil, simply unrealistic. What is evil is is extremism, which I'm afraid you're getting dangerously close to. When people become so steeped in their own ideals that they refuse to even listen to what other people have to say, that's when something becomes evil. The problem is, our country is so steeped in extremism right now, if only because the extremists on both sides are so much more vocal, that everyone's talking and nobody's listening so nothing's getting done. I really wish more people could be like an English teacher I had back in my senior year high school: we were working on our research papers and the kid behind me was doing his on tax code. He and I ended up in a three way debate over the issue with the teacher. We were both liberals (although our philosophies were different) and she was a Republican. The conversation ended with her telling me that, while she didn't agree with me, she understood where I was coming from. She was one of my favorite teachers and I will never forget that conversation.


As for implying that

That's just stupid. Saying that is like saying that all Catholics are biggots, or all Jews are rich, or all Muslims are terrorists, or that all conservatives are gun toting war mongers or all liberals are pot smoking hippies. Or that all anime fans are overweight, socially inept losers with some kind of mental "defect" that live in their mothers basement because they're incapable of doing anything worthwhile in their lives and they spend all of their money on overpriced anime merchandise. Let's face it: the stereotype exists. But we all KNOW that that isn't true, especially the last one, because some of us are functioning adults with jobs and families and others of us are college students typing out our posts from our college dorms and hoping that our stupid college internet doesn't crap out on us when we have so much work that needs to be done within the next week before (and during) finals, and others of us are high school students who can't wait to be done with high school so they can move out from under their parents' roofs and begin living their adult lives.

So kindly shut up with repeating the same generalizations over and over again as if that will make them true, and drop the attitudes. And hope that the lightning never strikes and you never end up needing to rely on welfare yourself.

And for the record, this applies to everyone, not just the people I mentioned by name.

Honestly I can care less if your offened. One big problem we have as a socity is that we think that offending someone is so taboo that we just shut up and dont actually make the hard choices cuz they are "offensive". First off, why reason why food banks can't keep shelfs filled is that the support for those charities has almost completly gone away. And why not? Who want's to give back to a charity when they can just get free money for food from the goverment. There should always be a bit of humility when asking or getting help. It helps motivate you. You don't want to keep doing it. That's almost complety gone away.

Also another reason food banks cant keep up on stuff is rediculus reguations from the goverment or rules handed down by grocery chains themselvefs. I'll share a little story of what happened to me.
My father works for the salvation army. While I was with the family I was complaining about how much milk we have to throw away (8 days before the due date. A ENTIRE WEEK AND A DAY EARLY) So he asked if I could talk to my manager and see if we could donate it the salvation army in the same area cuz they always have ceral for the kids. After clearing it with my department head and the store manager I called my dad a week later and told him I had 9 half gallons of skim milk for him. He picked it up and I thought everything was fine. Then the district HR person heard about it and say it on tape and FLIPPED HER LID. She told me and the store manager that if we wanted to do that the head of the repersentatives in the Salvation Army had to contact the repersentatives of my grocery chain then had to sign paper work. After asking how long it would take the answear I got was "about a year with all the paper work." For a couple of gallons of milk?! And it's not like it would be a constant thing. Just whatever I have leftover when I have to pull it from the shelefs. Needless to say the reps werent interested in doing that much work for something so little, so now I still pour it down the drain.

If the individual store managers were able to control what they did with their own food that has to be thrown away, food banks would have much more then they do now. But no, it all have to be screwed up by corporate dogs that don't know how to operate in the real world.

If I can budget my poor butt and still survive without goverment assistance, so can other people. And as far as my "generalizations" go. If the majority of people wouldn't do this kind of stuff, the generalizations wouldn't be there.

[XenoBlade]

now ill be the first to say people in america are socialized to be sensitive, there are limits before everyone becomes insulted. And lack of empathy for a situation (which the people who are insulted have gone through) increased theinsult. Ignorance is not speaking ones mind. Im not perfect with not angering folk, but i realize when im being insensitive.

Also prime example of true problem of our country's problem. Corporations. Im not even going to start, but denying milk like that?

Also..."if it seems everyone does it, not my fault i generalize" really man? There is no need to point out the illogical rational in it. so stereotypes are true? A lot of people swear by them. its thoughts like that, that create strife and division when someone is different. I ALWAYS see people abuse food stamps, but you'll never see me say everyone does. welfare needs to change, but it IS needed.

[minecraftsmurf]

Dark Stranger, on 18 May 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Honestly I can care less if your offened. One big problem we have as a socity is that we think that offending someone is so taboo that we just shut up and dont actually make the hard choices cuz they are "offensive". First off, why reason why food banks can't keep shelfs filled is that the support for those charities has almost completly gone away. And why not? Who want's to give back to a charity when they can just get free money for food from the goverment. There should always be a bit of humility when asking or getting help. It helps motivate you. You don't want to keep doing it. That's almost complety gone away.

Also another reason food banks cant keep up on stuff is rediculus reguations from the goverment or rules handed down by grocery chains themselvefs. I'll share a little story of what happened to me.
My father works for the salvation army. While I was with the family I was complaining about how much milk we have to throw away (8 days before the due date. A ENTIRE WEEK AND A DAY EARLY) So he asked if I could talk to my manager and see if we could donate it the salvation army in the same area cuz they always have ceral for the kids. After clearing it with my department head and the store manager I called my dad a week later and told him I had 9 half gallons of skim milk for him. He picked it up and I thought everything was fine. Then the district HR person heard about it and say it on tape and FLIPPED HER LID. She told me and the store manager that if we wanted to do that the head of the repersentatives in the Salvation Army had to contact the repersentatives of my grocery chain then had to sign paper work. After asking how long it would take the answear I got was "about a year with all the paper work." For a couple of gallons of milk?! And it's not like it would be a constant thing. Just whatever I have leftover when I have to pull it from the shelefs. Needless to say the reps werent interested in doing that much work for something so little, so now I still pour it down the drain.

If the individual store managers were able to control what they did with their own food that has to be thrown away, food banks would have much more then they do now. But no, it all have to be screwed up by corporate dogs that don't know how to operate in the real world.

If I can budget my poor butt and still survive without goverment assistance, so can other people. And as far as my "generalizations" go. If the majority of people wouldn't do this kind of stuff, the generalizations wouldn't be there.

Careful now, you may make someone who ‘feels’ self-important and self-entitled ‘feel’ indignant from your words you type on the internet in a ‘political based’ topic on a forums website.

This is a political ‘topic’ and I started this topic in order to get individuals to share their opinions. Any opinion based topic will ultimately offend some individuals. Any political based topic will ultimately offend some individuals. Therefore, as this is common knowledge, one would believe that the individuals who decide to partake in the ‘topic’ they did not start would be prepared to face opinions that they may not agree with. Consequently, one would believe they would know how to properly handle the situation instead of stopping their feet screaming foul play. Interestingly enough, these are the individuals first to swear, tell someone offensively to “Shut up,” directly target individuals, label them as negative, power-trip and tell individuals to grow up when things do not necessarily go their way. I am not going to point* fingers at individuals; however, they know who they are. Perhaps with a little insight, they will realize it is them... that needs to grow up.

It’s mind numbing, that this even needs to be said.

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 18 May 2012 - 09:56 AM

[Valkyrie]

My thoughts: if employers have the option to do background checks and drug tests, as well as make them mandatory as a condition of employment, I see no reason why states can't enforce drug tests as a condition for gaining welfare benefits. It's a means (maybe not always efficient, no system is infallible or perfect, after all) of ensuring that the money isn't going to be used to feed an illegal addiction. It may not solve all the other problems and factors involved, but it's a step in a good direction.

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 18 May 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Honestly I can care less if your offened. One big problem we have as a socity is that we think that offending someone is so taboo that we just shut up and dont actually make the hard choices cuz they are "offensive". First off, why reason why food banks can't keep shelfs filled is that the support for those charities has almost completly gone away. And why not? Who want's to give back to a charity when they can just get free money for food from the goverment. There should always be a bit of humility when asking or getting help. It helps motivate you. You don't want to keep doing it. That's almost complety gone away.

Also another reason food banks cant keep up on stuff is rediculus reguations from the goverment or rules handed down by grocery chains themselvefs. I'll share a little story of what happened to me.
My father works for the salvation army. While I was with the family I was complaining about how much milk we have to throw away (8 days before the due date. A ENTIRE WEEK AND A DAY EARLY) So he asked if I could talk to my manager and see if we could donate it the salvation army in the same area cuz they always have ceral for the kids. After clearing it with my department head and the store manager I called my dad a week later and told him I had 9 half gallons of skim milk for him. He picked it up and I thought everything was fine. Then the district HR person heard about it and say it on tape and FLIPPED HER LID. She told me and the store manager that if we wanted to do that the head of the repersentatives in the Salvation Army had to contact the repersentatives of my grocery chain then had to sign paper work. After asking how long it would take the answear I got was "about a year with all the paper work." For a couple of gallons of milk?! And it's not like it would be a constant thing. Just whatever I have leftover when I have to pull it from the shelefs. Needless to say the reps werent interested in doing that much work for something so little, so now I still pour it down the drain.

If the individual store managers were able to control what they did with their own food that has to be thrown away, food banks would have much more then they do now. But no, it all have to be screwed up by corporate dogs that don't know how to operate in the real world.

If I can budget my poor butt and still survive without goverment assistance, so can other people. And as far as my "generalizations" go. If the majority of people wouldn't do this kind of stuff, the generalizations wouldn't be there.

-Coughs-

But the key point is My poor butt. Single. How much rent do you pay? Who handles your bills? Do you have kids or siblings living with you? etc. Sure you by yourself don't need government assistance but what about a house of six kids? How about a day with four kids or how about a person who just lost their job and their parents can't help them and/or are dead? People like that need it more so than you. Using yourself is a horrible example.

Yes the stores are wasting food. This country waste food, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to move out of said country and live in the UK. You know how much food BK/MCDs waste on an average? Tons. That food could go for the homeless etc.

But the Government doesn't care about the homeless or what may have you. It's messed up, which is why this topic is here and debated among us. The welfare system, everything about the government needs to be fixed.

Another issue besides the government is a lack of food. Have you been to food banks? I have been to tons of them when I was homeless at one point and one of them the line was around the block like a concert. But you know what? I don't abuse them. I look for jobs, I've been asking around with my resume and still I need food stamps and other help per month. I budget and do other things.So you're saying that me, and a few other people on this forum or looking at this forum, who need government assistance is just sitting on their butts and doing nothing?

There are people who abuse this and we need to change. I talked to the mayor and other things and I have no idea why big wigs like to throw away food, period.

[cactusmomma]

And since the sarcasm hasn't stopped, the information on the subject has been passed out, and there will always be different walks of life speaking.. this discussion will be put on time-out for a while.

Edit: Reopening on the request that everyone keeps their cool and remembers that this is to be a discussion and a possible debate. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Thanks.

[Wingy Baby]

Oh dear, not even one post made it before personal attacks occurred.
Play nice.

We can always keep this locked.

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 18 May 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

-Coughs-

But the key point is My poor butt. Single. How much rent do you pay? Who handles your bills? Do you have kids or siblings living with you? etc. Sure you by yourself don't need government assistance but what about a house of six kids? How about a day with four kids or how about a person who just lost their job and their parents can't help them and/or are dead? People like that need it more so than you. Using yourself is a horrible example.

Yes the stores are wasting food. This country waste food, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to move out of said country and live in the UK. You know how much food BK/MCDs waste on an average? Tons. That food could go for the homeless etc.

But the Government doesn't care about the homeless or what may have you. It's messed up, which is why this topic is here and debated among us. The welfare system, everything about the government needs to be fixed.

Another issue besides the government is a lack of food. Have you been to food banks? I have been to tons of them when I was homeless at one point and one of them the line was around the block like a concert. But you know what? I don't abuse them. I look for jobs, I've been asking around with my resume and still I need food stamps and other help per month. I budget and do other things.So you're saying that me, and a few other people on this forum or looking at this forum, who need government assistance is just sitting on their butts and doing nothing?

There are people who abuse this and we need to change. I talked to the mayor and other things and I have no idea why big wigs like to throw away food, period.

My rent is 300 a month. for a basement made into a studio apartment. It was 600 a month when I was living with my brothers and 500 before that. That one I mostly paid all myself because both my brothers lost/quit their jobs. And I might have to take care of a kid soon. There was a time I might have had to live in a homeless shelter though. Not because I lost a job. It was just that I didn't make enough money to find a place. And I have signed up for foodstamps at a time. But it never went through (state jobs running at its finest) and I just didn't care to continue. I just budgeted a little better.

And I understand that life does happen and people need help, but like your example pointed out. Did they have all six kids before or after they lost their job/whatever happened to them. Which when it comes to kids I see nobody even changing. I see a mom with two or three kids already and who is pregnant again and still using foodstamps and wic and you know they aren't trying because they wouldn't still be having kids. That's the part that bugs me the most. If you need assistance and our budgeting and living withen your means is fine. But being on assitance and not even trying is another. Heck in fact our last cenus data showed that for the first time ever minorities and immergrents are having more kids then whites. We are finally or will soon be the minority. And it's these people that can't budget, keep having kids, and then still feel entitled is what makes me rant and rave.

[YoungBirdcall]

kahad, on 04 May 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I think the affects of the Super PACS are greatly exaggerated. A bad candidate is a bad candidate, regardless of how much money they spend. Take the 2010 Nevada senate race for example. Sharron Angle did better fundraising than Reid did. Did not help her that much.

You are factually incorrect. Sharron Angle's case is literally the exception that proves the rule. Allow me to elaborate:

"In 93 percent of House of Representatives races and 94 percent of Senate races that had been decided by mid-day Nov. 5, the candidate who spent the most money ended up winning, according to a post-election analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. The findings are based on candidates' spending through Oct. 15, as reported to the Federal Election Commission.

Continuing a trend seen election cycle after election cycle, the biggest spender was victorious in 397 of 426 decided House races and 30 of 32 settled Senate races. On Election Day 2006, top spenders won 94 percent of House races and 73 percent of Senate races. In 2004, 98 percent of House seats went to the biggest spender, as did 88 percent of Senate seats."

http://www.opensecre...-house-and.html

Dark Stranger, on 21 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

And I understand that life does happen and people need help, but like your example pointed out. Did they have all six kids before or after they lost their job/whatever happened to them. Which when it comes to kids I see nobody even changing. I see a mom with two or three kids already and who is pregnant again and still using foodstamps and wic and you know they aren't trying because they wouldn't still be having kids. That's the part that bugs me the most. If you need assistance and our budgeting and living withen your means is fine. But being on assitance and not even trying is another. Heck in fact our last cenus data showed that for the first time ever minorities and immergrents are having more kids then whites. We are finally or will soon be the minority. And it's these people that can't budget, keep having kids, and then still feel entitled is what makes me rant and rave.

I'm not going to assume anything here, but I feel like I should mention that these statements seem very racist to me.

This post has been edited by YoungBirdcall: 21 May 2012 - 10:26 AM

[The Fujoshi]

Dark Stranger, on 21 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

My rent is 300 a month. for a basement made into a studio apartment. It was 600 a month when I was living with my brothers and 500 before that. That one I mostly paid all myself because both my brothers lost/quit their jobs. And I might have to take care of a kid soon. There was a time I might have had to live in a homeless shelter though. Not because I lost a job. It was just that I didn't make enough money to find a place. And I have signed up for foodstamps at a time. But it never went through (state jobs running at its finest) and I just didn't care to continue. I just budgeted a little better.

And I understand that life does happen and people need help, but like your example pointed out. Did they have all six kids before or after they lost their job/whatever happened to them. Which when it comes to kids I see nobody even changing. I see a mom with two or three kids already and who is pregnant again and still using foodstamps and wic and you know they aren't trying because they wouldn't still be having kids. That's the part that bugs me the most. If you need assistance and our budgeting and living withen your means is fine. But being on assitance and not even trying is another. Heck in fact our last cenus data showed that for the first time ever minorities and immergrents are having more kids then whites. We are finally or will soon be the minority. And it's these people that can't budget, keep having kids, and then still feel entitled is what makes me rant and rave.

Whoa.....that last statement seemed bias and or racist~!

So immigrants/minorities are having more kids than whites? I need citations. Please. Because I thought this country period was having a lot of kids. Sure you have the dumb examples like the black guy who had 30 kids by different women and asking a break on child support but those are dumb extremes. America has more teen with kids than most other countries, with the exception of Africa and a few others.

Also who knows why x person still has kids? They could have been raped by their uncle and messed up in the head, they could just, you know, like having sex and messed up in the head, or they could be stupid. Or like in my Aunt's case, they like having babies but not kids and abuse the system.

How about the men who is still having sex with said women? You didn't point them out. It takes two people to make a baby but it's almost always on the woman's hand to do everything for the child yet the man gets slack. If some men step up then yeah the government wouldn't help out as much. It's a two way street.

Unless you know the people personally, then you can't make guesses. People assume that since I'm black with one kid that I'm a deadbeat just from that alone. Mind you I pay bills and work. I get help yes but I do work my butt off and I do budget. Outside influences and old habits along with depression is the reason why it falls through sometimes.

Might? You either have to take care of a kid or you don't~ I tell people a lot there is no "MIGHT." It's YES or NO. You either have to get something cut off or you don't, you either have to do this or you don't. Jobs don't look for, "I might be able to work on the weekends," you either can or you can't.