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Georgia to require drug test for welfare benefits? Ewwwww politics!!!!!! I know I know,

#121 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1074344.html

Just one of the many stories about how foodstamps is going up.


Well, after all, going to protests and receiving government aid is much easier than actually working. ;]

#122 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:43 PM

You can still have an environment that fosters the drive to discover and improve upon medical science, and still welcome treatments and procedures that would give the people's wallets (and bodies...) a break.



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#123 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1074344.html

Just one of the many stories about how foodstamps is going up.


SNAP is cash and food stamps, so the graph could be obscured if you are trying to get data just from food stamps. The AID offices in general has been changing; you can't go there for link or other assistance even if you live in the area so I'm not sure if they put that in account as well.

Also this data is somewhat old; you have anything more recent?

EDIT: Mine I'm curious; have you EVER been on aid before, like ever? I bet someone in your family is on it, like the old saying "There is a gay/drug addict/etc. in every family."

Depending on your situation aid is REALLY hard to get on or really easy, just like SSI. I know a friend with Asperger syndrome who's been on SSI for years and uses it as an excuse not to work but I know someone who is literally disabled due to horrible joint damage and arthritis and it took them a year, with a lawyer, to get SSI.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 30 May 2012 - 07:16 PM

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#124 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:51 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 30 May 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

SNAP is cash and food stamps, so the graph could be obscured if you are trying to get data just from food stamps. The AID offices in general has been changing; you can't go there for link or other assistance even if you live in the area so I'm not sure if they put that in account as well.

Also this data is somewhat old; you have anything more recent?

EDIT: Mine I'm curious; have you EVER been on aid before, like ever? I bet someone in your family is on it, like the old saying "There is a gay/drug addict/etc. in every family."

Depending on your situation aid is REALLY hard to get on or really easy, just like SSI. I know a friend with Asperger syndrome who's been on SSI for years and uses it as an excuse not to work but I know someone who is literally disabled due to horrible joint damage and arthritis and it took them a year, with a lawyer, to get SSI.

I'll see what I can find between or after jobs tommorrow.

As for me, my family was on foodstamps and WIC while my mother had my baby sister and during the time my dad was looking for work after getting laid off after like 15 years of working at a carpentry place. I"m not sure how long they were on it. But I know they were defintily off it by the time I was starting to get into my teens. I myself signed up for foodstamps before I got my second job. Never got it recived because after spending a ENTIRE day at the office, tons of paychecks, bank statements, bills, paperwork etc. They still lost it in the process of faxing it to the main headquarters in indianapolis. So they sent me a letter asking me to bring it all over again and I pretty much said, "F this. If they can't even do their job right why bother?"
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:52 AM

Speaking of federal aid, it took forever to get approved for medical assistance when I had cancer. Towards the end, they started asking about my eyesight.
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:53 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 30 May 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well, after all, going to protests and receiving government aid is much easier than actually working. ;]


I know right? Especially since jobs are hiring anyone and everyone right now and people enacting their constitutional right is so silly.
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#127 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 31 May 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

I know right? Especially since jobs are hiring anyone and everyone right now and people enacting their constitutional right is so silly.


The payout from a fulltime (40 hours a week) low-end (minimum wedge job) is less than the payout from government aid systems. Therefore, why would an individual pursue the job over the benefits (beyond the reason of self price)?

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 31 May 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

The payout from a fulltime (40 hours a week) low-end (minimum wedge job) is less than the payout from government aid systems. Therefore, why would an individual pursue the job over the benefits (beyond the reason of self price)?

Exactly. My friend was getting paid unemployment after he lost his job, but didn't get another job after that even though I was always telling him about job openings. Why? Because he said, they didn't pay more then his unemployment. Even though I told him I wouldn't mind paying more in rent to make up for that loss in money, he still wouldn't do it.
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#129 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:40 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 31 May 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

The payout from a fulltime (40 hours a week) low-end (minimum wedge job) is less than the payout from government aid systems. Therefore, why would an individual pursue the job over the benefits (beyond the reason of self price)?


Because even those low ends aren't hiring like usual. (not to mention, getting full time at said job isn't simple. Most low end are part time. So you'll have to go for two. When getting one is hard, getting two is even harder. (then you have to get the right combination of hours.) Then its the pay. Minimum wage is not a living wage. Now im not justifying depending on aid if one is lazy, but if someone truly needs it. If you have kids? Its almost impossible.
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#130 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:47 AM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 26 May 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Even those with health care it's bad. It depends on how much you spend, which is why I have an issue with this country. How much you spend and how much influence you have is what determines how long you live and what health care you get and your general health. And the government likes it that way and doesn't do anything to change it.

I mean I had to go to four, five different doctors and they still couldn't explain why I have chronic YI besides the fact that I'm a woman and even gave me the wrong medicine for it. I'm thinking about doing a lawsuit if I find out I develop cancer because of it.

It's always someone, like a movie star, who gets 1 million dollar hospital stays yet people out there can barely go to the hospital for life or death issues.

All of that money we spend on research yet it's almost always spent on the rich or well off. The cancer treatment centers of America will actually put down people with cancer, depending on your money status and how far off it is.

Pros:

Really good research when you can afford it
Easy access of medicine.

Cons:
Only the rich people get the really good coverage and state of the supplies. I seen on the news about this painless gun for kids but when I asked about it in hospitals they gave me a look and told me "Only the white hospitals have that."

Easy access of medicine means people will abuse it.


Overall, I feel that prevention is ultimately the most cost efficient method towards our healthcare future. As a cultural society, we have the potential to teach individuals that ‘only’ they have the ability to make holistic decisions that will drastically lessen their healthcare risks such as eating properly / counting calories, actually exercising (daily), and deciding to not engage in events that impose unnecessary ricks, etc.

I for one have been (some may say ‘lucky’ but I feel much of it is self-onset) have never been to a hospital outside of a physical checkup. Additioanly, I have never been on any ‘prescription’ medications and as a child when the school suggested ADD medication thankfully my parents refused. However, I still pay out of the rear end for medical insurance (over $1,000) annually. They are making money on me not losing money! I think it should be like car insurance! It goes up when you have ‘accidents’ and ‘make bad decisions’ but goes down when you ‘avoid accidents’ and ‘make good decisions.’

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:48 AM

I could most likely get more money if I stop my job and apply for more benefits.

I rather not being that I hate just sitting around the house for long periods of time and it'll just be more paperwork for me to do. And them to lose/complain about.
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#132 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:02 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 31 May 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Because even those low ends aren't hiring like usual. (not to mention, getting full time at said job isn't simple. Most low end are part time. So you'll have to go for two. When getting one is hard, getting two is even harder. (then you have to get the right combination of hours.) Then its the pay. Minimum wage is not a living wage. Now im not justifying depending on aid if one is lazy, but if someone truly needs it. If you have kids? Its almost impossible.


I agree, a full-time low-end job is not efficient enough for an individual to fully support himself or herself. Additionally, two parents / guardians both working full-time low-end jobs would not be enough to properly support a child.

The reasons why individuals end up in these positions vary and therefore, it is very difficult to create holistic solutions for the problem. Some individuals in these positions have crumbled due to a barrage of ‘bad luck’ however; others have fallen to their knees due to a series of ‘bad self-onset’ decisions. Consequently, I would say that some individuals truly do deserve aid programs to help them in their time of difficulty but others... others may be where they deserve.

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:34 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on 31 May 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Because even those low ends aren't hiring like usual. (not to mention, getting full time at said job isn't simple. Most low end are part time. So you'll have to go for two. When getting one is hard, getting two is even harder. (then you have to get the right combination of hours.) Then its the pay. Minimum wage is not a living wage. Now im not justifying depending on aid if one is lazy, but if someone truly needs it. If you have kids? Its almost impossible.

See maybe this is because I don't live in Ill but, I have never gone more then 6 months top between jobs. I've always been able to find a job. Or two and for a very brief time three. I find it odd that people who are techincally supposed to have a eaiser time with getting a job (that's what they shove down your throat about going to college anyway) can't seem to find a job while someone like me who only has a highschool degree can transportation can find all sorts of work.
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#134 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 31 May 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Overall, I feel that prevention is ultimately the most cost efficient method towards our healthcare future. As a cultural society, we have the potential to teach individuals that ‘only’ they have the ability to make holistic decisions that will drastically lessen their healthcare risks such as eating properly / counting calories, actually exercising (daily), and deciding to not engage in events that impose unnecessary ricks, etc.

I for one have been (some may say ‘lucky’ but I feel much of it is self-onset) have never been to a hospital outside of a physical checkup. Additioanly, I have never been on any ‘prescription’ medications and as a child when the school suggested ADD medication thankfully my parents refused. However, I still pay out of the rear end for medical insurance (over $1,000) annually. They are making money on me not losing money! I think it should be like car insurance! It goes up when you have ‘accidents’ and ‘make bad decisions’ but goes down when you ‘avoid accidents’ and ‘make good decisions.’


In my case the former was impossible. My family suffered from cancer, arthritis, asthma etc. So I do think you are "lucky."

As I mentioned before life is basically information and probability, down to when you walk to the street. My family came out the wrong end of the stick. My mom takes five-ten medications and even with insurance I have to help her pay for them. She wants to work part time but hasn't had any luck.

For me, I'm not as sick but stress from relationships has cause my health to go down, along with constantly UTIs and infections from being a woman. Now some women can wear spats, which are spandex shorts, and even have sex with tons of guys without having to worry about yeast infections and or other infections. But if I wear a napkin for too long, BAM BI, UTI, or YF.

Another example of the luck system: My cousin had tons of credit cards paid off by a man. In...10,000-20,000 per card. Mind you she still has credit cards, etc. and still gets credit cards. She's never been homeless and she's always had friends to help her with everything or family members. Her daughter never missed a Xmas, has her mom pick her up for everything at 23, etc.

When you have the choice of either not eating or eating what choice would most people make? There were times that I had the choice of either risking for food poisoning, eating mcds or pizza, or nothing at all while I was working 12 hour shifts. Now you may be thinking mine "Then why work there?" Because I like working and that's the only job that accepted me. Some people deal with this every day or can't make lunches because it's against job code.

Why else would MCDs make a commercial about the work force and missing lunch? Because it happens a lot more than you think. Some people's poor food choices are because of jobs and bosses as well as the unexpected, high expectation of work. Mind you this isn't everyone but this would explain why some people get fat during work and jobs, which would explain a lot of bad health issues/insurance concerns/etc.

@Xeno: seriously? Maybe I should move to your state. I've been trying to find work for 2 years now and most of the leads I got told me that they either want older people or know Spanish. They don't say it but a lot of the companies like Jewels/Ultra/Best buy want people who either have the experience, people who speak two languages, or older people (due to the young mentality.) It's frustrating but it doesn't stop me from still looking.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 31 May 2012 - 11:47 AM

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#135 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:52 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 31 May 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

In my case the former was impossible. My family suffered from cancer, arthritis, asthma etc. So I do think you are "lucky."

As I mentioned before life is basically information and probability, down to when you walk to the street. My family came out the wrong end of the stick. My mom takes five-ten medications and even with insurance I have to help her pay for them. She wants to work part time but hasn't had any luck.

For me, I'm not as sick but stress from relationships has cause my health to go down, along with constantly UTIs and infections from being a woman. Now some women can wear spats, which are spandex shorts, and even have sex with tons of guys without having to worry about yeast infections and or other infections. But if I wear a napkin for too long, BAM BI, UTI, or YF.

Another example of the luck system: My cousin had tons of credit cards paid off by a man. In...10,000-20,000 per card. Mind you she still has credit cards, etc. and still gets credit cards. She's never been homeless and she's always had friends to help her with everything or family members. Her daughter never missed a Xmas, has her mom pick her up for everything at 23, etc.

When you have the choice of either not eating or eating what choice would most people make? There were times that I had the choice of either risking for food poisoning, eating mcds or pizza, or nothing at all while I was working 12 hour shifts. Now you may be thinking mine "Then why work there?" Because I like working and that's the only job that accepted me. Some people deal with this every day or can't make lunches because it's against job code.

Why else would MCDs make a commercial about the work force and missing lunch? Because it happens a lot more than you think. Some people's poor food choices are because of jobs and bosses as well as the unexpected, high expectation of work. Mind you this isn't everyone but this would explain why some people get fat during work and jobs, which would explain a lot of bad health issues/insurance concerns/etc.

@Xeno: seriously? Maybe I should move to your state. I've been trying to find work for 2 years now and most of the leads I got told me that they either want older people or know Spanish. They don't say it but a lot of the companies like Jewels/Ultra/Best buy want people who either have the experience, people who speak two languages, or older people (due to the young mentality.) It's frustrating but it doesn't stop me from still looking.


I can't claim to know where you are coming from as I have never been in situations like that; however, I can sympathize... but I would feel that is wrong as that is not was individuals are seeking. You have this high belief in luck... perhaps some of it will continue to land in your lap. :)

#136 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:12 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 31 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

I can't claim to know where you are coming from as I have never been in situations like that; however, I can sympathize... but I would feel that is wrong as that is not was individuals are seeking. You have this high belief in luck... perhaps some of it will continue to land in your lap. :)


I seen people who chain smoke, people who did downright stupid things, but they survived and do it again or, in other cases never learned anything from it and other people suffer. If one person chain smokes 2-3 packs a day and never gets cancer or serious health issues but their child gets asthma from being around them, there there is something up with that. Luck, faith, what may have you. Which is why I think that people's lives is based on a "luck/probability/genetics" structure. But that's my opinion.

The fact that so many people who are looking for jobs can't find them, but the lazy people who do abuse benefits or who "lucked out," get jobs. Which is why I considered moving to Canada or the UK for better health care/way of life. I mean have you seen some of the people who work at Gamestop? One guy used to complain about working there and wishing he was on unemployment.

EDIT: on a similar note they are suppose to be cutting medicare here in my state.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 31 May 2012 - 09:05 PM

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostDark Stranger, on 30 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1074344.html

Just one of the many stories about how foodstamps is going up.


I like how my post cites evidence of social entitlement programs serving fewer people, and your response is to cite an example of a single social entitlement program that has grown.

I'll say it again: the analysis of government data shows that "MOST of the nation's safety net programs are serving fewer people." MOST does not mean ALL. It's in the definition of the word. Your retort is something like this:


HumanA: "Most birds can fly."

HumanB, in reply to HumanA: www.stupidostrichescannotfly.org
"Just one of the many stories about how Ostriches can't fly."



So, yeah, you're right that Ostriches can't fly. I don't dispute that. But it does not affect my original point in even the slightest way. MOST of the other social entitlement programs have gone down in usage. Congratulations on finding an article from 2011 that mentioned one social entitlement program which was (at the time) growing in usage.
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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 04 June 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I like how my post cites evidence of social entitlement programs serving fewer people, and your response is to cite an example of a single social entitlement program that has grown.

I'll say it again: the analysis of government data shows that "MOST of the nation's safety net programs are serving fewer people." MOST does not mean ALL. It's in the definition of the word. Your retort is something like this:


HumanA: "Most birds can fly."

HumanB, in reply to HumanA: www.stupidostrichescannotfly.org
"Just one of the many stories about how Ostriches can't fly."



So, yeah, you're right that Ostriches can't fly. I don't dispute that. But it does not affect my original point in even the slightest way. MOST of the other social entitlement programs have gone down in usage. Congratulations on finding an article from 2011 that mentioned one social entitlement program which was (at the time) growing in usage.

Well, There is also the news that unemployment has gone up back up again as well. Does that count too?
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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 04 June 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I like how my post cites evidence of social entitlement programs serving fewer people, and your response is to cite an example of a single social entitlement program that has grown.

I'll say it again: the analysis of government data shows that "MOST of the nation's safety net programs are serving fewer people." MOST does not mean ALL. It's in the definition of the word. Your retort is something like this:


HumanA: "Most birds can fly."

HumanB, in reply to HumanA: www.stupidostrichescannotfly.org
"Just one of the many stories about how Ostriches can't fly."



So, yeah, you're right that Ostriches can't fly. I don't dispute that. But it does not affect my original point in even the slightest way. MOST of the other social entitlement programs have gone down in usage. Congratulations on finding an article from 2011 that mentioned one social entitlement program which was (at the time) growing in usage.



*raises hand*

Where are the individuals that have 'exhausted' their "social entitlement programs" counted?

#140 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:36 AM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 05 June 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

*raises hand*

Where are the individuals that have 'exhausted' their "social entitlement programs" counted?


Why would that count? It's like saying that you should count someone who already went to jail and is out changing themselves as the people who are in jail currently.

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 05 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Why would that count? It's like saying that you should count someone who already went to jail and is out changing themselves as the people who are in jail currently.

-stares- You seem really...well you're interesting. Like those people who never been outside of downtown, including Chinatown, in Chicago.


*sighs lightly*

When an individual exhausts their unemployment benefits (for example) they are no longer counted in the state / national unemployment percentage rating. This also included college individuals whom have not found a job and have never applied for any form of aid. These individuals are still... a percentage of the population.

#142 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

To be fair to both sides. Those numbers to get played with alot and it's really hard to find a "exact" figure. I mean here in IN from jan to about the middle of may the umployment was slighty going down little by little, then at the end of the month they basically said, "whoops, we made a miscalculation." And now it's back up to around 7.5 again.
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#143 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 05 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

To be fair to both sides. Those numbers to get played with alot and it's really hard to find a "exact" figure. I mean here in IN from jan to about the middle of may the umployment was slighty going down little by little, then at the end of the month they basically said, "whoops, we made a miscalculation." And now it's back up to around 7.5 again.


It's more than 7.5% of individuals on unemployment. However, that does not include all those whom have exhausted their unemployment benefits, and those who are seeking jobs that have never worked before. Additionally, all those on disability, and government aid systems who are not seeking work. 7.5% + (unknown % of ppl looking for jobs) + (number of individuals on disability / government aid not seeking jobs) = total state unemployment (individuals not working) %. I wonder what that number... is. I am rather scared to find out.

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

Here's a well-written article on the necessity of public-sector unions.
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:46 PM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 06 June 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:


While I'd love to get in on this topic. (espcially since I'm in a union and have a hate/love reasonship with it.) It really is a seprate argument then on this thread. If you wanna start one though for it's own thread cuz I"m for defending scott walker.
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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 06 June 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:



Just seeing Walker win :3 (Walker 2012!!) and people angry over a surplus in jobs... is a clear enough representation of what unions are in my eyes.

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:29 PM

View PostDark Stranger, on 06 June 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

While I'd love to get in on this topic. (espcially since I'm in a union and have a hate/love reasonship with it.) It really is a seprate argument then on this thread. If you wanna start one though for it's own thread cuz I"m for defending scott walker.


I dropped that article off because MineCraftSmurf was referencing unions earlier in this thread.
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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:29 PM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 07 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I dropped that article off because MineCraftSmurf was referencing unions earlier in this thread.

No. that's fine. I understand that. Like I said, interesed in debating that and I'm all for that on a different thread. :)
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#149 User is offline   minecraftsmurf 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:46 PM

View PostYoungBirdcall, on 07 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I dropped that article off because MineCraftSmurf was referencing unions earlier in this thread.


All i has to say in response to that is Scott Walker for President 2012! <3

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:35 PM

View Postminecraftsmurf, on 30 May 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well, after all, going to protests and receiving government aid is much easier than actually working. ;]


"The claim behind these critiques is clear: federal spending on entitlements and other mandatory programs through which individuals receive benefits is promoting laziness, creating a dependent class of Americans who are losing the desire to work and would rather collect government benefits than find a job. Such beliefs are starkly at odds with the basic facts regarding social programs, the analysis finds. Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percent of the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits."

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=3677
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