[minecraftsmurf]

My link

Ewwwww politics!!!!!! I know I know,

But hey! It’s how our world works, so it’s worth paying you know a little attention to.

Basically, the law that’s set to take place on July 1’st 2012 (if not shut down) would require individuals who are applying for welfare benefits to pass a drug test in order to receive those benefits.

In a letter to one editor of the USA today one reader quotes “The preposterous notion… that requiring drug tests before and during receipt of public assistance… ‘unfairly stigmatize people receiving public assistance’ is a joke. If it’s about being ‘fair,’ then let’s be fair to those employed who are providing the money for the assistance...”

This law seems to be gaining quite a controversial reputation rather quickly, and I personally am having a difficult time understating why. I see this law as a revolutionary step forward towards a better tomorrow. I pay a lot in taxes, just like many of you… and I feel that assistance programs should aid competent individuals who require the assistance to regain their financial stability… instead of using it with intentions to purchase illegal drugs and / or abuse the system.

What do you guys think?!

[magishine]

I think it's totally fair. It's the states money. Why should they not have stipulations on how you get it? Not only that but if you're using their money to buy illegal substances then they have a right to know and ultimately withhold support. I can see it being misused but honestly. I'm ok with it

[TheStrongJaeger]

I'm off 2 minds on these issues:

The fiscally conservative part of me is against the current welfare system as it as and is totally fine with requiring the drug tests.

The libertarian part of me hates it as it assumes a priori knowledge that crime has been committed, which is wrong as everyone is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Also when it was done in Florida it cost the state more money to the drug tests then it actually saved by keeping addicts from collecting so it's kind of a wash. There really isn't a perfect answer to things like this.

[Unlucky Slayer]

I am all sorts of for this. Please bring this to Indiana!

If I have to pass drug tests to work at my job to pay for these leeches, they should also have to pass a test to take my money.

[FlyingElf]

Yeah, I'm pretty much all for this. If you're on welfare, you shouldn't be doing drugs.

Hell, if you're on welfare you probably shouldn't even be allowed to buy alcohol even.

[DarkMimi]

Considering that I've seen the system being abused by so many in my community, I say go for it. Don't do drugs kids...

Same goes for people on welfare, unless they're using drugs for medicinal purposes.

[Izuhara_Torozu]

Welll, most places make you pass a drug test to work there.. and in those cases you get paid for, you know, *working*.

On welfare you get paid for, well, not working. It only makes sense that you should pass consistent drug tests to receive it.

Some may argue that it would burden the system doing all these drug tests. Good. Eventually it'll weed out the ones who're spending welfare money on drugs and there will be less tests to do. In the mean time it would provide more business for whatever establishments are doing the tests. Plus it may even discourage a lazy druggie from applying in the first place if they know they won't pass.

IMO it's long overdue. Should be nation wide.

On a whole new tangent I think they should legalize and tax weed at the same time. People who make their living illegally selling weed will stop being a burden on drug enforcement teams if it's legal, freeing them up to crack down on hard drugs better. The lazy stoners will go to buy their weed from a gas station since it's easier, then, most likely. The tax will become good rev for the government, just like cigs. The fact that no one will be put in jail for selling/ having weed will free up jail space, and also ease the burden of the taxpayers paying for the meals of people in jail who got thrown in for something as dumb as possessing a joint.

Well, that's all I've got.

This post has been edited by Izuhara_Torozu: 26 April 2012 - 12:23 AM

[Unlucky Slayer]

FlyingElf, on 25 April 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm pretty much all for this. If you're on welfare, you shouldn't be doing drugs.

Hell, if you're on welfare you probably shouldn't even be allowed to buy alcohol even.

Yes! If they are actually passing the tests and getting the money, there should be only certain things that the money can be spent on. And Alcohol is definitely not on that list.

[Visadin the insane]

in IL you can't buy Alcohol with food stamps. hell you can't buy soap and paper plates with it.

[minecraftsmurf]

Visadin the insane, on 26 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

in IL you can't buy Alcohol with food stamps. hell you can't buy soap and paper plates with it.

In IL the "Link Card" now allows for a certain about of $$ 'cash back' therefore allowing individuals to use that money to purchase such things as alcohol and illegal drugs and / or liquor stores simply sell 20$ of "bananas."

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 26 April 2012 - 09:13 AM

[Izuhara_Torozu]

Goodness.. Finding loopholes to abuse it. What a shame, humans and their vices.. How could it ever change?

[The Fujoshi]

Izuhara_Torozu, on 26 April 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Goodness.. Finding loopholes to abuse it. What a shame, humans and their vices.. How could it ever change?

It's been like that for a long time; remember bootleg drinking and 1800s lady houses?

But I'm two heads for this; I mean sure it's the government money and I'm seriously tired of people spending money on stupid things or abusing the system but it's also "their money," so what does it matter on what they spend it on? If they don't use this they might use another method to get their drugs and booze.

Heck people here sell food stamps all the time for cash.

Interesting note, they are also trying to do drug testing for unemployment as well.

[masterblaster]

Unlucky Slayer, on 25 April 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

I am all sorts of for this. Please bring this to Indiana!

If I have to pass drug tests to work at my job to pay for these leeches, they should also have to pass a test to take my money.

"Leeches," huh?

You really bought into the whole welfare queen myth hook, line and sinker.

[Unlucky Slayer]

masterblaster, on 29 April 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

"Leeches," huh?

You really bought into the whole welfare queen myth hook, line and sinker.

There are people that need the help, yes. But there are also a huge number of people that abuse the system. It's those people that need to be thrown out.

[TheStrongJaeger]

Unlucky Slayer, on 30 April 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

But there are also a huge number of people that abuse the system.

[citation needed]

[minecraftsmurf]

TheStrongJaeger, on 30 April 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

[citation needed]

It is ‘common knowledge’ that individuals do in fact abuse the government aid systems; therefore, no citation is required for a statement based on “given” information.

This post has been edited by minecraftsmurf: 30 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

[TheStrongJaeger]

minecraftsmurf, on 30 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

It is ‘common knowledge’ that individuals do in fact abuse the government aid systems; therefore, no citation is required for a statement based on “given” information.

There is a big difference between claiming "individuals" abuse the system like you did(which I will not argue as there will always be some) and claiming that "huge numbers" of people abuse as the previous poster stated. Claiming that "huge numbers of people abuse the system" does require some proof or study.

[XenoBlade]

Make this national law. Nuff said

[The Fujoshi]

TheStrongJaeger, on 30 April 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

[citation needed]

Come to my area and ask how many people sell food stamps every month (all of them,) and how many people claim other kids that are not their own on their aid checks.

It's a lot; there are people who need it but I know a lot of people who lie to get aid or food stamps in order to just use them for booze/crack/weed/etc.

I actually know friends who do so as well. It's a common thing, especially here in Chicago. The aid offices are not that much better. As long as you bring in something they don't care, they don't double check, they don't do background checks, etc. and many of the people who come act the same. Not everyone is like this but a lot of people are sadly like this.

[TheStrongJaeger]

The Fujoshi, on 30 April 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Come to my area and ask how many people sell food stamps every month (all of them,) and how many people claim other kids that are not their own on their aid checks.

It's a lot; there are people who need it but I know a lot of people who lie to get aid or food stamps in order to just use them for booze/crack/weed/etc.

I actually know friends who do so as well. It's a common thing, especially here in Chicago. The aid offices are not that much better. As long as you bring in something they don't care, they don't double check, they don't do background checks, etc. and many of the people who come act the same. Not everyone is like this but a lot of people are sadly like this.

http://en.wikipedia....cdotal_evidence

"The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases."

[minecraftsmurf]

TheStrongJaeger, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....cdotal_evidence

"The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases."

*nods vigorously* Wikipedia! Where all pros get "evidence."

[TheStrongJaeger]

http://dictionary.re...cdotal+evidence

http://www.scientifi...entific-results

Would you like more sources that state anecdotal evidence isn't acceptable? Or can you provide a better source and prove me wrong? Or are you going to honestly say that one person's experience is proof enough to pass a law?

How about this:

http://colorlines.co...g_governor.html

When they tried this in Florida 98% of people who applied for welfare passed. This is hardly a "huge number".

So would anyone here like to provide actual evidence that there is a large number of people on drugs applying for welfare or that a large number of people are abusing the system? Because all I am seeing is unverified claims.

This post has been edited by TheStrongJaeger: 30 April 2012 - 08:23 PM

[minecraftsmurf]

TheStrongJaeger, on 30 April 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

http://dictionary.re...cdotal+evidence

http://www.scientifi...entific-results

Would you like more sources that state anecdotal evidence isn't acceptable? Or can you provide a better source and prove me wrong? Or are you going to honestly say that one person's experience is proof enough to pass a law?

How about this:

http://colorlines.co...g_governor.html

When they tried this in Florida 98% of people who applied for welfare passed. This is hardly a "huge number".

So would anyone here like to provide actual evidence that there is a large number of people on drugs applying for welfare or that a large number of people are abusing the system? Because all I am seeing is unverified claims.

*Stretches sighing* EbscoHost search 1: "Food stamp fraud" let's see, lets see, my, my, many credible sources. *Yawn* let me make a cup of coffee, and I'll get back to you on my leisure with some "verified claims."

[TheStrongJaeger]

I stand corrected. Those credible sources you just cited and posted links to have opened my eyes. I concede to your superior argumentative abilities.

[minecraftsmurf]

TheStrongJaeger, on 30 April 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

I stand corrected. Those credible sources you just cited and posted links to have opened my eyes. I concede to your superior argumentative abilities.

Ahh, *burns roof of mouth on first bite of oven pizza* why! Why does that always have to happen!!!

Yes, credible sources... links? Lack of experience submitting scholarly research papers / presentations outside of possibly a two year associates degree?

*pokes burnt spot with tongue, oowwww*

Credible Source 1 (AMA format btw): SWAN R, SHAW L, HUMPHREY J, et al. The Untold Story of Welfare Fraud. Journal Of Sociology & Social Welfare [serial online]. September 2008;35(3):133-151. Available from: Academic Search Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed April 30, 2012.

Credible Source 2: Michigan Busts $1.5 Million Food-Stamp-for-Cash Ring. Policy & Practice (19426828) [serial online]. March 2008;66(1):26. Available from: Academic Search Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed April 30, 2012.

3: Paige S. Food-Stamp Fraud Puts Taxpayers in Double Jeopardy. Insight On The News [serial online]. October 26, 1998;14(39):44. Available from: Academic Search Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed April 30, 2012.

4: Clinton W. Statement on the Food Stamp program antifraud initiative. Weekly Compilation Of Presidential Documents [serial online]. March 6, 1995;31(9):336. Available from: Academic Search Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed April 30, 2012.

Give a few days to read through the 100's of pages on these 4 sources. These 4 are just from EBSCOhost or (EBSCO Publishing). Do you have access to EBSCOhost perhaps through your university? It, along with a few other databases, are 100% regulated and approved by universities and governments globally. (http://ebscohost.com/about-us) for some more quick info.

[kahad]

I say that it's about time. Maybe this could led to some of the drugies getting kicked out of the apartment complex where I live.

[minecraftsmurf]

kahad, on 30 April 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

I say that it's about time. Maybe this could led to some of the drugies getting kicked out of the apartment complex where I live.

xD I want to like so many of the posts on this page!!! but I be lacking a like button!! Too used to facebook i guess. But I agree with what you say!

[Dark Stranger]

Unlucky Slayer, on 25 April 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

I am all sorts of for this. Please bring this to Indiana!

If I have to pass drug tests to work at my job to pay for these leeches, they should also have to pass a test to take my money.

Second.

[Santa Finland]

Did they not see out how this worked for Florida? Only 2% of people failed the drug test and it cost the state $200,000. The Daily Show recently did a bit on it.

[Stormy-chan]

I love this idea! If I have to pass a drug test to get a job and to keep said job, then I have no issue of others having to do the same to get FREE food stamps and to keep them.