[Dark Stranger]

Kaay-chan, on 13 April 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

*deep breath*

Okay, great. Congratulations. You play games and watch anime to relax from busting your butt. So do I. Except, you don't have to deal with the sexism. For you, the most annoying thing is the complaining. For me, nothing ruins a lovely session of relieving stress and venting frustration at the expense of the lives of some pixels quite like sexist comments. Or getting hit on in what can sometimes be incredibly creepy ways. Being told by random strangers that you're hot, or sexy, or that you should get married, is not an enjoyable experience. Being called a dumb b**** is also not fun. And being told to get in the kitchen and to go make a sandwich is only funny when it's said by a close friend who knows that I know that they're joking (they also know that if I go to the kitchen to make a sandwich, it's so I can eat it in front of them with a smile on my face).

Furthermore? You've probably never had to worry about going to your local game shop alone for fear of being hit on by the guys that frequent the place. Trust me, I'd love to be able to go to my local shop on my own, but the stories I've heard from my friends of their experiences, alone, are enough to keep me from ever feeling comfortable doing so.

If it bothers you that much I know of all sorts of online gamer girl only guilds like the FPMS club I think its called. I myself haven't been a group that says those kinds of things to women. Mostly it's the oppoiste with them yelling at us for whatever we said or how we are playing. But like i've done and think most should do is just if it keeps bad enough, just pull out your mike and mute everyone. problem solved.

[XenoBlade]

Honestly tho, it's bad for ANY gender to have their mic in.(online) I hate talking to random people while gaming online. I never have my mic in when playing. Unless they are cool, or I know them. I heard my fair share of racist comments too. Tho I laugh at those more then I feel offended.


Kinda glad my mic doesn't work too well when I think about it.

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 19 April 2012 - 06:47 PM

[Kaay-chan]

Dark Stranger, on 19 April 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

If it bothers you that much I know of all sorts of online gamer girl only guilds like the FPMS club I think its called. I myself haven't been a group that says those kinds of things to women. Mostly it's the oppoiste with them yelling at us for whatever we said or how we are playing. But like i've done and think most should do is just if it keeps bad enough, just pull out your mike and mute everyone. problem solved.

...Seriously? Your response is "if you don't like sexist comments just go play with other girls in girl-only environments"? I'm sorry, but that's really insulting. Like...words can't describe how insulting I find that.

I only talk on vent with my guild-mates from Mabinogi, and I'm lucky that they're a bunch of awesome peeps who rarely make sexist comments, and when they do it's clearly a joke. They also only ever hit on us girls as a joke.

My problem is the people in the general gaming community. The creepers I was talking about who hit on me? Those were guys who just randomly walked up to me in town. There were no mics involved, just keyboards. What are you going to do now? Tell me to organize a girl-only channel? Stop playing my favorite MMO that I've been playing for four years and spent time and money on to find some girl-only game? Get real.

[XenoBlade]

Kaay-chan, on 19 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

...Seriously? Your response is "if you don't like sexist comments just go play with other girls in girl-only environments"? I'm sorry, but that's really insulting. Like...words can't describe how insulting I find that.

I only talk on vent with my guild-mates from Mabinogi, and I'm lucky that they're a bunch of awesome peeps who rarely make sexist comments, and when they do it's clearly a joke. They also only ever hit on us girls as a joke.

My problem is the people in the general gaming community. The creepers I was talking about who hit on me? Those were guys who just randomly walked up to me in town. There were no mics involved, just keyboards. What are you going to do now? Tell me to organize a girl-only channel? Stop playing my favorite MMO that I've been playing for four years and spent time and money on to find some girl-only game? Get real.

I agree with ya pretty much all the way this time. lol (haha weird I know right? XD)

tho I think basically to make what he said better is basically just ignore said comments and stuff. Being an online gamer, you are gonna run into people who think they are just that awesome cuz they are behind a comp/tv screen. (add lame for those who always ask out. I don't think I'll EVER understand that.) As I said before, even as a guy, I get my fair share of crap. It's annoying, and it's unfair, but it is just a part of life sadly.

If you want to look on a bright, yet spiteful side, those same guys probably won't ever get laid. Minor Solace, but hey, seeing how so many hold that kinda stuff up, I'd say it decent solace. lol

[delial]

the comments in that article were atrocious.

While I will agree guys understanding their privilege is quite a task, it's sad/kinda funny/unfortunate it *seems* they can't even try to do so. But it's quite a task, just as much as understanding things only dudes go through is a task (for a girl, obviously). Catch 22 :/

[vipstancecom]

It's just the way people are. It's not only sexism. Racism is the same. If you go online there are forums where people will say the most horrible things that they think all the time, just because they are protected by a computer screen. These are the same people that smile at you in the grocery store, or call you sir/maam with a gentle smile. These are the people that make your food at restaurants. People change and become more hostile when they feel safe. With the increase of interracial marriages, racism slowly starts to dissipate (not racism itself, but the fact that they can't make fun of you if they don't know which race you are). Unfortunately, sexism will always exist because you can't really have babies of both sexes, consistently. So this debate will probably be going on 500 years later (if the world even makes it that far).

[Dark Stranger]

XenoBlade, on 19 April 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I agree with ya pretty much all the way this time. lol (haha weird I know right? XD)

tho I think basically to make what he said better is basically just ignore said comments and stuff. Being an online gamer, you are gonna run into people who think they are just that awesome cuz they are behind a comp/tv screen. (add lame for those who always ask out. I don't think I'll EVER understand that.) As I said before, even as a guy, I get my fair share of crap. It's annoying, and it's unfair, but it is just a part of life sadly.

If you want to look on a bright, yet spiteful side, those same guys probably won't ever get laid. Minor Solace, but hey, seeing how so many hold that kinda stuff up, I'd say it decent solace. lol

Thank you. Yes, that is very much what I said. And I was saying if you want a more comfertable enviroment Kaay-chan, you could play with girl gaming leauge if you want. I know they do special nights for them on XBL some nights that I've seen. You don't have to play with them all the time. But it might be a nice thing to help get away from the creepers/annoying comments all the time.

[XenoBlade]

Although this thread is probably on its deathbed, something wanted me to ask something. not just with nerdom, but with guys in general, another reason why "privilege" exist is the fact of "being gay" if you turn down sex or don't look for it. I never understood it. You would think only guys would say that, but I hear just as much girls say it too. Doesn't really help when you are a guy and if you don't go for sex, you are automatically gay.

[YoungBirdcall]

delial, on 19 April 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

the comments in that article were atrocious.

While I will agree guys understanding their privilege is quite a task, it's sad/kinda funny/unfortunate it *seems* they can't even try to do so. But it's quite a task, just as much as understanding things only dudes go through is a task (for a girl, obviously). Catch 22 :/

THIS

Kaay-chan, on 19 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

...Seriously? Your response is "if you don't like sexist comments just go play with other girls in girl-only environments"? I'm sorry, but that's really insulting. Like...words can't describe how insulting I find that.

I only talk on vent with my guild-mates from Mabinogi, and I'm lucky that they're a bunch of awesome peeps who rarely make sexist comments, and when they do it's clearly a joke. They also only ever hit on us girls as a joke.

My problem is the people in the general gaming community. The creepers I was talking about who hit on me? Those were guys who just randomly walked up to me in town. There were no mics involved, just keyboards. What are you going to do now? Tell me to organize a girl-only channel? Stop playing my favorite MMO that I've been playing for four years and spent time and money on to find some girl-only game? Get real.

THIS

[Kasumisty]

Kaay-chan, on 16 April 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

It allows them to shift the blame, when the reality is, if a actually does say "gee, I like you too, but we're such good friends that I don't want to ruin it," it's because there's something else and she just doesn't want to hurt his feelings; maybe he smokes, or has bad hygiene habits, or has some other trait that the girl is able to tolerate in him as a friend but wouldn't be able to tolerate in a boyfriend.

Or maybe they just don't have "feelings" for the guy. I'm friends with some guys but I am just not attracted to them in that way so I wouldn't want to date them. It's not that there is anything wrong with them, just I have no interest in being anything more than friends. I dunno maybe I'm weird.

This post has been edited by Kasumisty: 21 April 2012 - 04:12 PM

[Kaay-chan]

I think the other problem is the fact that not all of the sexism is aimed at the player. There are times when I'm pretty sure the guys are aiming their comments and actions directly at the female character herself, and they could care less if it's a 13 year old girl or a 50 year old man behind the computer.

What makes me say this? I play Vindictus, where you basically play as one of 4 stock characters. In other words, your class determines your gender. My character is an Evie, which is the mage class, and sometimes I'll go afk near the firepit so my character can get some buffs while I'm not paying attention to her, and when I come back I'll find some Lann (male dual wielding character. Also the only male character for the longest time until they introduced Karok, who is literally a giant) sitting on my character so it looks like she's in his lap, in the process of taking off his armor. And sometimes, if I move my character, the Lann will move so that he's once again sitting on top of me.

[Washu Takahashi]

Personally, I haven't seen this much in the anime nerd realm. Or maybe I just chose to surround myself with more decent people? Though I don't like when I'm in cosplay and I get stopped for a picture by a guy who has no issues with putting his hands on me (not inappropriately, but still, you should ask) and obviously has no idea who my character is, he just thinks I look good. Now, I'm not fabulous looking or particularly sexy or anything, but sometimes I wish I was uglier/fattier just so I might be taken more seriously instead as a potential sex object

I've never been big on online gaming using chat, and after hearing my little brother play on XBox Live, I doubt I every will. Before getting an xbox he was a pretty decent kid, swore every once in a while like everyone else. But once he got an xbox every other word was a swear...ugh. Not to say xboxs themselves are "evil" or "bad", but in this case I do believe they had a direct effect on my brother's personality. And I would not want to be on the other side of that mic as a male, let alone a female. However, I do want to point out that some women DO abuse their "power". Oh you're a poor defenseless woman who doesn't know what's going on? Let me help me out. Though for me, I really don't know what I'm doing and tend to get offered help since it's painfully obvious and I'm not afraid to ask for help. But I'm sure there are those who no exactly what they're doing but use men to make the game "easier"

I will say that this kind of thinking is seen in other parts of my life though. I'm going into electrical engineering. My school is like 80% male. And a good chunk of the girls in my school (which is a private school for math/science/engineering) are either chemists or biologists, which is still seen as "girly" somehow. When they hear your engineer it's like "Ok, so what are you really? A chemical engineer?" Some guys take the very idea of women in their field as a threat. Though thankfully most men are decent human beings and don't act that way, at least not to our faces

[Dark Stranger]

XenoBlade, on 20 April 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Although this thread is probably on its deathbed, something wanted me to ask something. not just with nerdom, but with guys in general, another reason why "privilege" exist is the fact of "being gay" if you turn down sex or don't look for it. I never understood it. You would think only guys would say that, but I hear just as much girls say it too. Doesn't really help when you are a guy and if you don't go for sex, you are automatically gay.

Proabably because everyone (except for that rare one or two) enjoy sex. And if someone says they don't want it they think something isn't working right in their brain. Espcially if your playing with a group of....how to put this nicelly....*shrugs* Douchebags, you will that get those sort of comments.

[Steam_Loli216]

YoungBirdcall, on 16 April 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Friendzone Theory for the layperson:

Premise 1: Men are never friends with women whom they would not consider dating (or at least sleeping with).

Premise 2: Women are sometimes friends with men whom they would not consider dating or sleeping with.

hold on, how did I overlook this??

This is true. 95% of my guy friends I would NOT do ANYTHING with because they are my friends and that is IT. And the other 5% are my exes... well I wouldn't go there but ya know I couldn't say 100% percent.

The thing is a lot of my guy friends are like "I know we're friends and I know you're getting married but if you weren't... hey, you're still a girl and I'm still a guy...(if you know what I mean)"
and I'm like NO.

[KirbyFanOne]

Steam_Loli216, on 21 April 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

The thing is a lot of my guy friends are like "I know we're friends and I know you're getting married but if you weren't... hey, you're still a girl and I'm still a guy...(if you know what I mean)"
and I'm like NO.

What a bunch of cheese pizza eatin' fruit bowls.

[Trini]

What the article describes is part of the reason I hate going to game stores. I do love the one near my house though. While the customers are generally males, a good portion of the managers and employees are female so none of that "Let me direct you to Cooking Mama" or "Your brother/boyfriend is going to love this game." I recently traded in TvC for credit on another game and someone asked me if it's because the game was too hard. All the reasons I could be giving it up and you ask if that was it? That's nuts. I know people have said the anime community is a little better than gaming, but it's there, and depending on who makes up your community, it can be just as bad as XBox Live. You don't like/know any of the classics? You're a deceiving witch. Get out. You do love the classics? You looked that up on Wikipedia. You're beyond into DBZ/Gundam/Toku/other male dominated fandoms? Your boyfriend/dad/brother/etc is really cool for introducing you to it. You like yaoi? Men aren't here for your entertainment (Yes, I have heard that argued). You can't win. I can forgive some of the "creepers" (used very lightly). As an awkward penguin myself, it took awhile to learn how to flirt without seeming desperate/crazy. I figure some of them just need some time. If they never get it and become actual creepers, tough luck for them.

Since friendzoning has been mentioned quite a few times, I'm just curious how many of the people that claim females only want jerks/guys only want DDD's have actually asked out this other person. You may think your comeons are completely obvious, but not everyone thinks like you. Some people may actually consider just a really good friend or like family. They can't read your mind that you're super supportive because you want them.

KirbyFanOne, on 22 April 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

What a bunch of cheese pizza eatin' fruit bowls.

I laughed heartily. Best insult ever.

[Dark Stranger]

Trini, on 22 April 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Since friendzoning has been mentioned quite a few times, I'm just curious how many of the people that claim females only want jerks/guys only want DDD's have actually asked out this other person. You may think your comeons are completely obvious, but not everyone thinks like you. Some people may actually consider just a really good friend or like family. They can't read your mind that you're super supportive because you want them.

I can't speak for everyone, but when I get "freind zoned" by someone I have a actually interest with and they know it for a fact, I'm done. I know it know it sounds shitty, and jerkish, but you know what? I want more then just a friend from (whoever you've had that experiance with). And if you know that, don't box me into something I"m not gonna fit in just because your more comfertable with it. I had that problem recently with a freind of mine and after hearing nothing from her except her talking about her new bf on FB she texted me asking basically, "why havent' you talked to me?" And it was such a stupid question I went off on her.

As far as "friendzoning" goes, women use it as a shield more then anything else.

[Dark Stranger]

Here's extra creditz take on the subject. Always helping with ideas in the gaming community.
http://penny-arcade....sode/harassment

[Kaay-chan]

This is the last thing I'm going to say on the matter:

Before blaming the friendzone on things, as yourself this: Would she (or he) be interested in you if you weren't friends. And be honest with yourself on this. Don't just be all "yeah, totally, because I'm totally superman and stuff." Really analyze whether or not the person you like would go out with you even if you weren't friends. If yes, then okay, I guess the friend-zone exists after all. If no, then, well...I rest my case =/

[YoungBirdcall]

I'll just leave this here (again): http://xkcd.com/513/

[XenoBlade]

Kaay-chan, on 03 May 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

This is the last thing I'm going to say on the matter:

Before blaming the friendzone on things, as yourself this: Would she (or he) be interested in you if you weren't friends. And be honest with yourself on this. Don't just be all "yeah, totally, because I'm totally superman and stuff." Really analyze whether or not the person you like would go out with you even if you weren't friends. If yes, then okay, I guess the friend-zone exists after all. If no, then, well...I rest my case =/

Philosophy raptor moment. "but what if both situations exist?" Lol

In all seriousness, a good friendship CAN stop a relationship. The fear of losing a friendship to have just an awkward friendship afterwards can stop relationships.

Tho honestly, i think you still have the wrong impression of a friendzone. When ppl complain, its not (usually) "oh if only ypu werent my friend" its more "wow, so i have no chance before i even start?" Kinda thing. Tho that doesnt change the fact of why it happens (be it you are too ugly, boring, unhygenic,fat, skinny or what have you). The friendzone exists in virtue that not every person you intetact with will be your gf or bf. Whiners just like to take it further.

[Keiichi-chan]

this article comes to mind:
http://observer.com/...ts-not-reality/

i remember reading about this when a friend posted it on facebook months ago, and although i find the cat calls and chauvinism
egregious and everything, i don't like the tone of the article's author; it's not as if sexism only exists within
the societal construct of 'nerd culture', and the rest of the world is 'more enlightened' or something. these people are
just being the idiots that a lot of guys are whenever they're not around women, nerd or non-nerd.

the truth is, many people make tons of sexist, homophobic and racist comments when they feel they're away from the light of scrutiny among
their friends. gaming online and comic book stores happen to be an environment when they feel such gaffes are allowed, or the anonymity
of playing online with someone allows people who truly believe these things to express their idiocy without social scrutiny.

the problem among anime fans is definitely a different one: desperate guys hitting on every girl, since the girls at anime cons tend to be the MAJORITY;
and, possibly worse, girls realizing how easily they can manipulate lonely male nerds who put any girl who shares a common interest
with them up on a pedestal.

[Cherry_Wolf]

I love and hate the original article post here - I love it cause there are plenty of points I agree with in it; I hate it cause I had my first real fight with a guy friend/possible love interest over it.

I'm still a little upset(not to the point at what I was) that he refused to take the issue seriously and it made me question his thoughts on women in a gamer/nerd society. We straightened things out, but I still feel hesitant to bring up this subject again with him since he seemed pretty unenthusiastic over it the first time. So here comes the good ol' ACen forums to save the day!

I find the article very interesting and said guy friend tossed up a good point to me - on LiveJournal(back in its day) and even a bit on tumblr, its always surprising to run into male users. LJ was/is DOMINANTLY a female community, so much, that its always safe to assume the user will be female 9 times out of 10. And when you find a male user, a lot of girl users get shocked and may even exclaim their shock to the male users - making them feel awkward. Heck, some female users oogle over them, wonder if they are available, etc. So its kind of a mirrored thing with the gaming situation (with less debasement, i think)

Nerd culture, as a whole, has been slowly gaining female populations for quite some time. In some areas more than others; but things are changing. Or at least I think they are.

The guys who still call girls derogatory things while gaming, telling her to make them "sammiches" etc... are just a small speck of the community - an embarrassing, immature speck of dirt. Look at the community as you would a fandom. You have your good apples and your bad one. There may be days when all you do is find the bad apples, but there are good ones out there and there are ones that will treat you as you want to be treated.

I don't do gaming, so perhaps I'm being too optimistic about it.

Either way, the article makes some pretty valid points and I, personally, was a little impressed.

[Keiichi-chan]

the jokes on me for consistently updating my livejournal, even now.


like a lady.

This post has been edited by Keiichi-chan: 01 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

[Sarahlicious]

Keiichi-chan, on 01 October 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

the jokes on me for consistently updating my livejournal, even now.


like a lady.

At least it's not a Xanga.

[Steam_Loli216]

at least it's not 4chan.

Conversely, I've found a lot of raging, scary feminists on Tumblr. I like to pretend they don't exist.

[The Fujoshi]

Steam_Loli216, on 05 October 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

at least it's not 4chan.

Conversely, I've found a lot of raging, scary feminists on Tumblr. I like to pretend they don't exist.

Thank god I'm with the normal Desu 2 bunch.

The most I found was fangirls, mature women, and the occasional weird teenager (who's like 15 immature teen who spams random non 15 year old stuff,) but that's really it.

Where do you find these raging feminist at? Maybe it's the interest points.

[TheStrongJaeger]

The Fujoshi, on 05 October 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Thank god I'm with the normal Desu 2 bunch.

The most I found was fangirls, mature women, and the occasional weird teenager (who's like 15 immature teen who spams random non 15 year old stuff,) but that's really it.

Where do you find these raging feminist at? Maybe it's the interest points.

A simple Google search of "feminist tumblr" yields several pages of tumblrs dedicated to feminism ranging from "somewhat reasonable" to "I believe all men should be castrated". For me those types were so pervasive that it's the reason I don't go to tumblr. At least 4chan knows they aren't serious and do everything as a joke, while the tumblr people are almost always serious.

[The Fujoshi]

TheStrongJaeger, on 05 October 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

A simple Google search of "feminist tumblr" yields several pages of tumblrs dedicated to feminism ranging from "somewhat reasonable" to "I believe all men should be castrated". For me those types were so pervasive that it's the reason I don't go to tumblr. At least 4chan knows they aren't serious and do everything as a joke, while the tumblr people are almost always serious.

Actually that's false; it depends on what part of 4chan you are on. And yes women do exist on the internet.

If you go to something like /jp/, /a/, and /y/ sure yeah, (even though there are so many fujoshi there,) but if you mean /cgl/ they have as many feminist as tumblr, if not more so. Most of the trip names were women; only two or three were men out of like 10-20 and most of them were between the ages of 17-24 and that was two years ago, now it's probably more. There are so many threads about makeup, female hygiene products, to diets that I'm surprised they don't just call it /fit/ for women.

I stopped going to /cgl/ because I couldn't take the more "all women are free love from multiple people and only pure virgins," threads to "if you are fat you shouldn't cosplay," and "If you like Hetalia then you should go to hell and I will make you feel bad for doing so until you GTFO of /cgl/." and circle jerking.

Oh and the tons and tons of "how this girl is a lame because I'm jealous of her," that reeks feminism green eye monster petty goodness. Its hard to tell if they are the same person or not serious if there are tons and tons of threads about this or that, especially pixy what's her name.

I'm pretty new when it comes to tumblr. -Shrugs- I only go there for Devil survivor 2, post translations, and the Medaka box icons so I was lucky enough not to run into these people.

I dunno what's worse: Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, or 4Chan. Probably Twitter since everyone uses it now a days.

But Its online and when has online been sane for anyone.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 05 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

[Dark Stranger]

The Fujoshi, on 05 October 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

I dunno what's worse: Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, or 4Chan. Probably Twitter since everyone uses it now a days.

But Its online and when has online been sane for anyone.

They are all kinda getting equally annoying since the are constantaly putting up notifications/showing me what my friends are liking/talking about/seeing pictures of. It just starts flooding your wall with people you don't even know. :/