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What happens if one sold a badge to get into Acen? Question regards friend of mine.

#1 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:54 AM

So I was asked to inquire about this by an associate of mine.

Said Friend, let us call him Bob, has a pal named Tim. Tim is a panelist who has a panel with his sister. Tim's sister can not make it to acen this year, but has already purchased a badge. Tim sold said badge, with a girl's name, to another friend who is a guy. So the other guy and Tim are hosting the panel now.

My questions that were asked.

1. Is it legal to sell the badge?
2. Can a guy use a girl's issued badge?
3. Since Tim's friend was not one of the names on the panelist form, can said friend run the panel with Tim?

The reason Bob is asking all of this was because Tim wanted to sell Bob the badge but he declined becuase he wasn't sure that it was okay to buy a badge off someone else and not directly from the con.

So what's the rules regarding this?
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#2 User is offline   Darkspawn 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:08 AM

The FBI comes after you. Life in jail. No chance of parole.

My guess is, if Acen somehow discovers it's not his badge, it could be taken away and he'll get the boot. Selling badges - or giving someone else your badge - is not allowed, as far as I know.
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#3 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:12 AM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 04 April 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

So I was asked to inquire about this by an associate of mine.

Said Friend, let us call him Bob, has a pal named Tim. Tim is a panelist who has a panel with his sister. Tim's sister can not make it to acen this year, but has already purchased a badge. Tim sold said badge, with a girl's name, to another friend who is a guy. So the other guy and Tim are hosting the panel now.

My questions that were asked.

1. Is it legal to sell the badge?
2. Can a guy use a girl's issued badge?
3. Since Tim's friend was not one of the names on the panelist form, can said friend run the panel with Tim?

The reason Bob is asking all of this was because Tim wanted to sell Bob the badge but he declined becuase he wasn't sure that it was okay to buy a badge off someone else and not directly from the con.

So what's the rules regarding this?


Hypothetically...

1. No it isn't necessarily illegal, but it does violate our rules and regulations. So both risk being banned from ACen and any future events of ACen or sponsored by our parent company, permanently. This can also influence Bob's ability to come back as an attendee and be a panelist in the future since he is technically an accessory to the rule and regulation violation. (provided that each party associated with this event went through with it)

2. Badges aren't really assigned based on Gender, so I don't really understand that particular question. I do know that it is against our rules and regulations to use someone else's badge,

3. You would need to consult Panel Programming for their ruling on that issue. I would recommend contacting them via email.
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#4 User is offline   Oyuki 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

I've seen this happen from time to time; where one purchases a badge and cannot make it to the con all of a sudden, but doesn't want the badge to go to waste. Isn't there some circumstantial leeway? I know that the registration team has done a lot of work already, but what if they were notified of the trade with the confirmation number? Nobody wants to throw away $50+ after being able to sell room spots to others when this happens.
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#5 User is offline   YoungBirdcall 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

Sure, selling your badge to someone else is against Acen's rules.

But it's only a foul if the referee blows their whistle, savvy?

How would anyone at the convention (staff or otherwise) know that it wasn't Bob's badge? Even if the name on the badge says "Tina Johnson" or something appropriately feminine like that, couldn't Bob just claim that he chose that badge name as a joke? And who even reads the names on the badges, anyway? I.R.T. has no time for something like that (unless they've been previously alerted that a congoer with the badge name "So and So" has broken rules and needs to be booted). And it's not like Bob has to pick up his badge at will-call and show an I.D. and such. He'll have it on his person before the con even starts.

Sorry if my post ruffles any feathers, but I think that Acen's "no re-selling badges" policy is actually illegal in the United States. "Why?" you ask?

Well, if I were to buy a ticket to a concert (an Acen badge is effectively a ticket to the event that is "Acen") but something comes up and I can no longer attend, I am perfectly within my legal rights to re-sell the concert ticket that I purchased. The band that I paid to see can't legally stop me, those owning and operating the concert venue can't legally stop me, the promoters can't legally stop me, and none of them can bar entrance to the person who bought my ticket from me. This is the law in the United States of America.

I'm no lawyer, and I'm not 100% certain that this applies to convention tickets, but it really seems like it does, and I'm going to stick to my guns until someone can provide me with a legal precedent for Acen & MAP's practice of not allowing the re-sale of badges.
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#6 User is offline   Purplegodess 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:15 PM

Actually a badge is a membership not a ticket, and they are non refundable and non transferable. You click a box to sign to that when you agree to purchase the badge. Only authorized people can sell memberships to events, so once you "resell" or "give away" your membership it is void to the person it goes to, and since you are not wearing your badge, with your membership identification on it, we can infact take it away, and ask you to leave.

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#7 User is offline   YoungBirdcall 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostPurplegodess, on 04 April 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Actually a badge is a membership not a ticket, and they are non refundable and non transferable. You click a box to sign to that when you agree to purchase the badge. Only authorized people can sell memberships to events, so once you "resell" or "give away" your membership it is void to the person it goes to, and since you are not wearing your badge, with your membership identification on it, we can infact take it away, and ask you to leave.


I understand that we all signed the "I promise not to re-sell my badge" clause when we clicked that box in the badge-purchasing process, but illegal contracts (which this seems to be) cannot be enforced in America. If I went to Best Buy and bought a television, and during the purchasing process they coerced me into signing a document that said I would never re-sell that television (Acen forcing people to click on that little box during the badge-purchasing process is indeed coercion, since one cannot continue with the process unless said box has been "clicked"), I could still re-sell that television. Best Buy would have no legal grounds to stop me, despite the fact that I had signed a "contract" promising not to re-sell it. Once I (legally) purchase something, it is mine to do with as I please. Even if Best Buy coerced me into agreeing, by contract, not to re-sell my legally-obtained item, they cannot then penalize me for re-selling it, because the initial contract (that they coerced me into signing) was never legal in the first place.

And it's a membership to what, though? A "one-weekend only" club? If the badge were in fact a membership signifier to some organization, wouldn't that one badge then be valid for each subsequent Acen? Or does your club demand that members re-join each year, for a new price? This does not make sense to me, legally or otherwise.

This post has been edited by YoungBirdcall: 04 April 2012 - 02:28 PM

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#8 User is offline   Purplegodess 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:33 PM

Its a one year membership to the organization, when you buy a badge you purchase a one year membership to belong to the Midwest Animation Promotion Society, and it allows you to attend our annual event: Anime Central. Your badge is your membership ID which allows you to attend our events.

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#9 User is offline   YoungBirdcall 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostPurplegodess, on 04 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Its a one year membership to the organization, when you buy a badge you purchase a one year membership to belong to the Midwest Animation Promotion Society, and it allows you to attend our annual event: Anime Central. Your badge is your membership ID which allows you to attend our events.


So then, by that logic, shouldn't my badge from last year allow me to attend this year's convention? I purchased my badge (my membership) less than one year ago, and the convention itself is less than a year from last year's, so shouldn't I be eligible to attend this year's convention without having to purchase a new year-long membership card (convention badge)?

I promise that I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to understand.

This post has been edited by YoungBirdcall: 04 April 2012 - 02:39 PM

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#10 User is offline   Purplegodess 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:43 PM

No problem. Your last years badge was your membership for our last operating year. Our operating year is from July 1st to June 30th, then the next convention year starts up, so they would have expired.

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#11 User is offline   Isamu 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

View PostPurplegodess, on 04 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Its a one year membership to the organization, when you buy a badge you purchase a one year membership to belong to the Midwest Animation Promotion Society, and it allows you to attend our annual event: Anime Central. Your badge is your membership ID which allows you to attend our events.

Never mind.

This post has been edited by Isamu: 04 April 2012 - 02:47 PM

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostPurplegodess, on 04 April 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

No problem. Your last years badge was your membership for our last operating year. Our operating year is from July 1st to June 30th, then the next convention year starts up, so they would have expired.


Thanks for clearing that up. And if the badge itself is legally classified as a "membership" purchase (as opposed to a "goods" purchase), then my initial quandary as to the legality of the "no re-selling badges" practice seems to be moot.
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#13 User is offline   Bloo09 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:55 PM

Panel badges can only be picked up for the badge's owner with a photo ID, there is no way for the person who bought the badge to pick it up. The panelists you are referring to should email us.
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#14 User is offline   Oyuki 

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

So basically, MAPS made sure that the money goes straight down the drain if anything happens. I'm with YoungBirdcall on what realistically happens; who has the time to enforce it? Does it have to be a membership? Why?
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#15 User is offline   kenkendazo  

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:48 AM

View PostOyuki, on 05 April 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

So basically, MAPS made sure that the money goes straight down the drain if anything happens. I'm with YoungBirdcall on what realistically happens; who has the time to enforce it? Does it have to be a membership? Why?

Oyuki, you agreed to the contract and buyer beware. In a commercial nation like ours, beyond basic right (reselling privileges not included) you really have no say in things. Like no shirt no shoes no service. All legal aspects of this are in MAPS favor and really it isn't illegal at all.
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#16 User is offline   Naoya Toudou 

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

No one really has time to enforce identification to badges, however may the gods help you if your caught.

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

To be honest, to check every single person's badge as they walked in the door would take more manpower just for AA than the entire con has, and the lines would be atrocious.

They usually color code the days, and they also rely that the members of this event don't screw with them.

However, I know last year apparently people were panelists, got badges, and cancelled, and that's why they can no longer mail panelist badges. So to anyone that did that last year, if I find you, I will beat you with my crutches. I really am not relishing making another trip over Thursday night just to grab my badge, because you couldn't be honest enough.

So everything like this has ramifications. If too many people do it, they will eventually have to switch to every single person being checked at the door with a scanner, or every single person picking it up with an ID.

Would you like to see those lines, or would you like to be honest?
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:20 AM

While I'm not saying you guys are going to do it, but posting these ideas of passing a badge to a friend and getting away with it may encourage them to look more. Just saying. Lol
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

I think this thread should be locked now
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

I agree. You cannot sell or trade your badge away. This is what you all agree to when you buy a badge and even have to affirm that you agree to these terms when you purchase one through the registration system. There is no "money down the drain" as well, we are all volunteers, including the MAPS board - all money goes to the convention every year and making sure it happens for you all and trying to put on the best convention we can.

Just because you "can" give your badge to a friend, doesn't mean you should. The penalities are very severe.

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