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Artist ally Tax questions First encounters with requiring tax at a con?

#1 User is offline   FurGear 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:27 AM

Ok so I'm from Michigan where I have never encountered anything that required me to pay for taxes.
Is this tax thing only meant for vendors? If anyone has dealt with this before I would really appreciate a step by step on how to deal with this.
In Michigan I haven't had to do this because I dont make a certain amount of money.
I understand this applying to vendors since they have a commercially made product that they are reselling in a retail fashion but artists make their own stuff, make less money, and are not selling something they didnt make.
If this tax thing does apply to everyone selling anything how do I go about the paperwork side of things and where do I send the money?
I'm hoping that this will not just help me but others that are confused by this as well.

#2 User is offline   IcyPanther 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:25 AM

Just as confused as you, FurGear.
I contacted the IDOR about the specifics, as there's some type of temp. taxpayer ID you can get if you only do events like twice a year, and I know that we don't have to register until later for said number. However, I did not get exactly what this means for us: Do we pay like a 10% tax on the amount we sell? Or do we incorporate a certain tax into each item that we sell? I personally don't think it is entirely fair either, because it is our product. I understand that we are using a public space, but that is what paying for the table is for. I'm hoping things become clearer, but for now I wouldn't worry about it -- at least for registration.

Speaking of expenses though, has anyone heard anytihng about how much power to the tables is going to cost? I know that ACEN is doing it through the convention center, but I'm trying to figure out at least a base price...
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#3 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:25 AM

View PostFurGear, on 10 December 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

Ok so I'm from Michigan where I have never encountered anything that required me to pay for taxes.
Is this tax thing only meant for vendors? If anyone has dealt with this before I would really appreciate a step by step on how to deal with this.
In Michigan I haven't had to do this because I dont make a certain amount of money.
I understand this applying to vendors since they have a commercially made product that they are reselling in a retail fashion but artists make their own stuff, make less money, and are not selling something they didnt make.
If this tax thing does apply to everyone selling anything how do I go about the paperwork side of things and where do I send the money?
I'm hoping that this will not just help me but others that are confused by this as well.

I have lived in Illinois all my life, and the government here taxes the crap out of us and anyone else who dares venture in our borders, not to mention our wonderful governor's plan to get us out of debt by raising the tolls which you will have to deal with when you drive up to ACen.

Here is all the information you will need: http://www.revenue.s...lated/fairs.htm
Please read through it as it clearly answers all of your questions. The ACen staff, and other forum members here cannot give you any tax advice since we aren't tax professionals, but that informational page does have all the answers you are looking for and all the info that will guide you step by step on what you need to do.
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#4 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

View PostIcyPanther, on 10 December 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

I personally don't think it is entirely fair either, because it is our product. I understand that we are using a public space, but that is what paying for the table is for.

AA staff correct me if I'm wrong, but paying for the table just covers the cost ACen pays to rent the space at the Rosemont center.

Please read through this for yourself here, but this is what the dept of revenue in Illinois says:

Quote

Do you sell merchandise at fairs, festivals, flea markets, or craft shows?
If so, you are a retailer and you must collect and pay Illinois sales taxes. Whether this is a full-time business or a hobby, you are subject to the Illinois Retailers' Occupation Tax.


Is it fair? No, but life isn't fair. Do other states do this to? Probably, although I have not sold out of state so I do not know. Should you follow the rules and collect sales tax? Probably, because if they find out they will fine you.
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#5 User is offline   IcyPanther 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:52 AM

[quote name='DavenEvanXaviour' timestamp='1323538493' post='1042403']

Please read through this for yourself here, but this is what the dept of revenue in Illinois says:




But do you know how much taxes are? I live in Illinois, and where i'm from the rates differ between 7% and 8%. Do you know if we are supposed to incorprate that percent of tax per item that we sell, (so, for example, if we sell something for $5, with a 8%tax rate it'd be $5.40) or if it's a set base amount just for showing at the con?
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#6 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:14 PM

View PostIcyPanther, on 10 December 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:

But do you know how much taxes are? I live in Illinois, and where i'm from the rates differ between 7% and 8%. Do you know if we are supposed to incorprate that percent of tax per item that we sell, (so, for example, if we sell something for $5, with a 8%tax rate it'd be $5.40) or if it's a set base amount just for showing at the con?


On that page I keep linking to they state that "To obtain the correct tax rate or for forms and information on how to file, please contact us." I was planning to call the Special Event Coordinator(1 847 294-4475 or email Rev.SpecialEvents@illinois.gov) to find out once I know for sure if I am even in the AA this year. The sales tax you will owe does depend on the city(Rosemont) and sometimes county(Crook), but again I have not called and asked yet.
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#7 User is offline   IcyPanther 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

View PostDavenEvanXaviour, on 10 December 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

On that page I keep linking to they state that "To obtain the correct tax rate or for forms and information on how to file, please contact us." I was planning to call the Special Event Coordinator(1 847 294-4475 or email Rev.SpecialEvents@illinois.gov) to find out once I know for sure if I am even in the AA this year. The sales tax you will owe does depend on the city(Rosemont) and sometimes county(Crook), but again I have not called and asked yet.


I did call, but the lady didn't know very much :( I was just wondering if anyone else had gotten information from someone who knew more.
Oh gosh, Rosemont is in Cook? For some reason I thought it was DuPage. Lovely. That plus the tolls is going to make this a joyous trip. At least i have an iPass -- paying cash now is just ridiculous.
Thanks :)
I will (hopefully) be attending ACen 2015 as an Artist.
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#8 User is offline   AkaneNoHime 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:08 PM

I saw that too and wigged out at first...but then the Artist Alley mailing list sent this out to ppl - I think possibly because a lot of people were asking:

"Tax Number, we can't offer any information about how to go about getting one, or what it is, since we can not advise you on matters regarding Taxes. We suggest following the link mentioned in the last email, if you need help."

"That being said, for those of you that looked through the Tutorial, you noticed that IBT was a field. It is NOT a required field, and it will not impact your ability to register for the AA, but we have to have that field there anyway. If at anytime you obtain a number from the Illinois Revenue Department, or they advise you on how to proceed, let us know, and we will work with you."

So I'm guessing that for those of us who aren't vendors or who make our living going around the convention circuit, that it won't be a big deal to not have one. Here's hoping!
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#9 User is offline   FurGear 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:43 PM

So I'm guessing that for those of us who aren't vendors or who make our living going around the convention circuit, that it won't be a big deal to not have one. Here's hoping!
[/quote]

Thats the delima
were not a vendor nor are we making a living off of this
It is a hobby
Im not saying at we wont try everything that we can to abide by both convention and state laws.
I just want to know how to do that and make everyone happy and make things go as smoothly as possible.

#10 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:16 PM

View PostFurGear, on 10 December 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Thats the delima
were not a vendor nor are we making a living off of this
It is a hobby
Im not saying at we wont try everything that we can to abide by both convention and state laws.
I just want to know how to do that and make everyone happy and make things go as smoothly as possible.


Please read through the webpage. The IL Dept of Revenue states:

Quote

Whether this is a full-time business or a hobby, you are subject to the Illinois Retailers' Occupation Tax.

I think they make it pretty clear and then there is this...

Quote

Any person who promotes, organizes, or provides retail selling space for concessionaires or other types of sellers at fairs, art shows, flea markets, or other similar events is required to file a report with us.

I'm not on AA staff so I can't say for sure, but the webpage does say that ACen AA is required to report that we are selling there.

It is a criminal offense if they know you sold there and you haven't registered for sales tax. It is up to you whether you are comfortable taking that risk or not.

Again, I highly advise you read through the webpage, and contact them to find out exactly what you are required to do.

This post has been edited by DavenEvanXaviour: 10 December 2011 - 09:18 PM

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#11 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 02:20 PM

View PostIcyPanther, on 10 December 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

Do we pay like a 10% tax on the amount we sell? Or...

... has anyone heard anytihng about how much power to the tables is going to cost? I know that ACEN is doing it through the convention center, but I'm trying to figure out at least a base price...


That amount is dependent on what the city and the county decide. Last year they sent us a form to send to everyone that had the tax rate on it (which we did). I promise you that once we receive it from them, again, we will send it out to all the Artist's who got into the Alley.

We are working off of the same standard with Artists as we do with Exhibitors, regarding the power and electricity. Once the Artist is fully paid, we distribute the pertinent information to them regarding the power and electricity drop.

View PostDavenEvanXaviour, on 10 December 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

Please read through the webpage.

...the webpage does say that ACen AA is required to report that we are selling there.

It is a criminal offense if they know you sold there and you haven't registered for sales tax. It is up to you whether you are comfortable taking that risk or not.

Again, I highly advise you read through the webpage, and contact them to find out exactly what you are required to do.


Correct.
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#12 User is offline   Christy 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:51 PM

I'm also checking in on this with an accounting firm I know though my day job. If anybody is interested, I'll post thier recommendations. :)

#13 User is offline   BrokenRemnantStudios 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:04 PM

:( I've been doing Artist Alley at ACen for years, we've never had to do this before. At least not to my recollection.
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#14 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 04:11 PM

Illinois Tax Laws have changed, which is why you need to consult the Illinois Department of Revenue.
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#15 User is offline   KurolokiRoku 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:45 PM

View PostVoltaire30, on 12 December 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

Illinois Tax Laws have changed, which is why you need to consult the Illinois Department of Revenue.


Well that explains everything.

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about taxes though. Where does it mention taxes in the artist alley rules?
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#16 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:52 PM

View PostKurolokiRoku, on 12 December 2011 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well that explains everything.

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about taxes though. Where does it mention taxes in the artist alley rules?

It's not an Artist Alley rule, it is an Illinois Tax law. Rules are something you can enforce, and AA cannot enforce this.
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#17 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

It does not mention Taxes in the Artist Alley / Art Show rules as Taxes are a Federal and State Issue. The Federal and State Governments come before Artist Alley / Art Show Rules.
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#18 User is offline   Manifested Dreams 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

View PostKurolokiRoku, on 12 December 2011 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well that explains everything.

I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about taxes though. Where does it mention taxes in the artist alley rules?


It doesn't really have to mention it in the rules for it to be relevant. The state of Illinois requires you to pay taxes on any items sold within the state, regardless of the venue.

Technically, people should have been dealing with this from the start, same as shows like Otakon.

It's a simple thing to get a temp license though, so no need for anyone to stress it. Just roll the tax into the total cost of the item sold and you'll be fine.

#19 User is offline   KurolokiRoku 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

I'm still confused...I pay attention to my taxes and I've never made enough to pay tax on my art yet. I'm not really worried about it unless there's a change that Acen is enforcing.
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#20 User is offline   JujuFox 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:19 PM

View PostKurolokiRoku, on 12 December 2011 - 07:11 PM, said:

I'm still confused...I pay attention to my taxes and I've never made enough to pay tax on my art yet. I'm not really worried about it unless there's a change that Acen is enforcing.

Not to be rude, but you should read all of the previous posts before you decide whether to obey state laws or not. If you read my quotes I take them straight from the webpage of the IL Dept of Revenue, or you can just go to their site and read up for yourself.

This has nothing to do with your income taxes that you file at the end of the year, it is sales tax that they are making us small businesses and hobbyists collect at craft fairs/venues/festivals etc.

Remember folks, the state isn't taking your profits! This is sales tax. The customer pays it and you keep all of the profit that is due to you. :3
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#21 User is offline   FurGear 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:34 PM

Oh my this is turning into quite the heated discussion

Im glad to know that this is the first year that this is going on.
And that were all in the same confusing boat.

Keep in mind that thru most of this thread it has been the weekend and we were unable to call the number provided.

IcyPanther did call though
"I did call, but the lady didn't know very much I was just wondering if anyone else had gotten information from someone who knew more. "

More or less I started this thread to get some info from those who might have delt with this before, thus helping everyone.

But im glad to see that im not the only one whos confused and a lot of the time
the legal stuff can just get confusing for some people.
I was hoping that somebody had a bit clearer definition of this due to experience.

This post has been edited by FurGear: 12 December 2011 - 07:54 PM


#22 User is offline   Tokoz 

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:48 PM

Here's the Illinois State Tax Rate Finder application from Illinois Dept of Revenus:

https://www.revenue....il.us/app/trii/

ACen is in Rosemont, Cook County, Illinois.


Also, if this is your only convention (or only one or two) or you're coming out from out of state, you might be eligible for using the Special Event Form instead of the full-out tax id and such. This is what I've done the past couple years. The contact lady for the Special Events unit (the unit that handles stuff like cons and fairs and such) is really nice. You should talk to her if you're confused or unsure about anything.

Here's the contact infor for the Special Events Unit:

Special Events Unit
9511 Harrison Avenue
Des Plaines, IL 60016

Phone: (847) 294-4475
Fax: (847) 294-4214
Email: rev.specialevents@illinois.gov

#23 User is offline   The Chainmail Guy 

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:22 PM

An important point to note that may help lend some fairness to the whole tax collection thing; as long as you are recording and submitting sales tax as part of a business (regardless if your business is just a hobby), you may qualify for writing off some of your expenses on your income taxes. I'm going to be looking into this for myself for this past year, but I know several people who do various crafts as a side business and are able to write off expenses like supplies, registration costs, traveling expenses (food, gas, room and board), and so on. Further, they are able to submit their expenses under their social security number alone, without having to get a Tax ID number. You'll have to consult your own tax adviser to get specifics for your own situation, but it's worth asking about. Just make sure to save all your receipts!

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