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Embassy Suites room block is open!

#31 User is offline   LordCanti 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:37 AM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 27 October 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Alright I'm going to call them now then. EDIT: Rate is one 185 per night.

@LordCanti: Few posts up and previous threads stated that it wasn't suppose to open til the 1st. I'm guessing the staff wanted to help out the more impatient people? I'm not saying you wrong but confused people in the past have swore up and down that they had the block and the find out they didn't because it wasn't open yet.


well i asked if the acen block was open for 26-29 and she said she only sees an animecentral block for those dates which i said yea thats it. thus as far as i know i am in the acen block :x
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#32 User is offline   chainedbyroses 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:09 PM

Just a heads up: the Double Bed, Triple Adult rate needs to be updated on the main ACen site > Hotel Information page -- the 2 bed, 3 adult rate is $195 as the representative on the phone read to me - $185 is/was only for Single & Double in a Double Bed room.

Thought you guys would like to know.
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#33 User is offline   El Ken 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:10 PM

View Postchainedbyroses, on 28 October 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Just a heads up: the Double Bed, Triple Adult rate needs to be updated on the main ACen site > Hotel Information page -- the 2 bed, 3 adult rate is $195 as the representative on the phone read to me - $185 is/was only for Single & Double in a Double Bed room.

Thought you guys would like to know.

Good catch. Looks like that was a typo. I'll inform the troops.
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#34 User is offline   Hotel Relations Autobot 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:36 PM

The room block officially opens for the Embassy, Doubletree, and Hilton on 11-1-2011 at 8AM. If you book before then, you may not get the show rates-


Embassy Suites:

King Room Nonsmoking:
Single/Double: $164
Triple: $174
Quad: $184

2DB Basic Nonsmoking:
Single/Double: $185
Triple: $195
Quad: $205

Parking: $16/night

Room rates are quoted exclusive of local taxes and fees, currently 12.564%. Quoted rates will be offered, based on availability, two days before and two days after the above dates.

A deposit equal to one night’s stay is required to hold each individual’s reservation. Such deposit shall serve to confirm the reservation for the date (s) indicated, and, upon check-in, shall be applied to the first night of the reserved stay. This deposit is refundable if notice is received at least twenty-four (24) hours prior to arrival and a cancellation number is obtained. All deposits shall be charged at the time the reservation is made.

Check-in time is 3:00 PM; check-out time is 12:00 PM (Noon).

The room block officially opens for the Embassy, Doubletree, and Hilton on 11-1-2011 at 8AM. If you book before then, you may not get the show rates-


Embassy Suites:

King Room Nonsmoking:
Single/Double: $164
Triple: $174
Quad: $184

2DB Basic Nonsmoking:
Single/Double: $185
Triple: $195
Quad: $205

Parking: $16/night

Room rates are quoted exclusive of local taxes and fees, currently 12.564%. Quoted rates will be offered, based on availability, two days before and two days after the above dates.

A deposit equal to one night’s stay is required to hold each individual’s reservation. Such deposit shall serve to confirm the reservation for the date (s) indicated, and, upon check-in, shall be applied to the first night of the reserved stay. This deposit is refundable if notice is received at least twenty-four (24) hours prior to arrival and a cancellation number is obtained. All deposits shall be charged at the time the reservation is made.

Check-in time is 3:00 PM; check-out time is 12:00 PM (Noon).

#35 User is offline   AcidAlice 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:23 PM

I reserved it today by calling and they gave me the room rates for Acen so I am all set for it.

#36 User is offline   Gabichox 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:04 PM

View PostHotel Relations Autobot, on 28 October 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

A deposit equal to one night’s stay is required to hold each individual’s reservation. Such deposit shall serve to confirm the reservation for the date (s) indicated, and, upon check-in, shall be applied to the first night of the reserved stay. This deposit is refundable if notice is received at least twenty-four (24) hours prior to arrival and a cancellation number is obtained. All deposits shall be charged at the time the reservation is made.


Que la le what? D:

Is this true? I don't trust anything that says "autobot" but just to be sure... can anyone clear up if a deposit is needed? XD It says that for the doubletree room too but that never happened to me last year. I was going to ask anyway since I never booked at embassy...

Also Ken!! I didn't notice your post before but Hitohaaa---! So cute when she's sick! ;www;~
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#37 User is offline   Nyanpire<3 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 06:13 AM

The Embassy people did not say anything about a deposit being charged up front. They said your card would not be charged until check-in and that's only if that's how you want to make payment. I just pay cash at check-in. I would question the validity of that info. :/

#38 User is offline   Gabichox 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:24 AM

^ alright thanks! :D
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#39 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:23 PM

View PostGabichox, on 28 October 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Que la le what? D:

Is this true? I don't trust anything that says "autobot" but just to be sure... can anyone clear up if a deposit is needed? XD It says that for the doubletree room too but that never happened to me last year. I was going to ask anyway since I never booked at embassy...

Also Ken!! I didn't notice your post before but Hitohaaa---! So cute when she's sick! ;www;~



They only charage extra if you use a card than cash for such things as room service, etc. from my experience. They do not take out first night deposits.

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 29 October 2011 - 01:25 PM

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:30 PM

View PostGabichox, on 28 October 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Que la le what? D:

Is this true? I don't trust anything that says "autobot" but just to be sure... can anyone clear up if a deposit is needed? XD It says that for the doubletree room too but that never happened to me last year. I was going to ask anyway since I never booked at embassy...

As always, to know for certain, your best bet is to contact the hotel for their particular policy. But I would have to agree with the general notions put forth so far.

View PostGabichox, on 28 October 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Also Ken!! I didn't notice your post before but Hitohaaa---! So cute when she's sick! ;www;~

I know, right? I was waiting for you to respond to it! :clap:
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#41 User is offline   Hotel Relations Autobot 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:21 AM

View PostEl Ken, on 31 October 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

As always, to know for certain, your best bet is to contact the hotel for their particular policy. But I would have to agree with the general notions put forth so far.


I know, right? I was waiting for you to respond to it! :clap:


I've checked with the hotel & am awaiting a response. More when I get it!
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#42 User is offline   Hotel Relations Autobot 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:46 PM

View PostHotel Relations Autobot, on 08 November 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

I've checked with the hotel & am awaiting a response. More when I get it!
- Dave!


Here is the answer: The ES and DT are not requiring a deposit. Guests will need to provide a credit card for guarantee on their reservation, or in lieu of a credit card would need to submit payment of one night’s room and tax.

#43 User is offline   MsLovelyCookie 

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:51 PM

Since I have never been to this hotel I'll ask here:

Can you hear anything from inside the hotel rooms? Like people walking pass by or doors slamming shut.

What makes this hotel different from the Hyatt, Double Tree, Hilton or Intercontinental?
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#44 User is offline   magishine 

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:04 PM

View PostMsLovelyCookie, on 12 November 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Since I have never been to this hotel I'll ask here:

Can you hear anything from inside the hotel rooms? Like people walking pass by or doors slamming shut.

What makes this hotel different from the Hyatt, Double Tree, Hilton or Intercontinental?



To answer your first question, From the bedroom you can't hear a thing....or at least I couldn't. the living room area, yeah kinda.


what makes this hotel different is the fact that the rooms are huge and the fact that you get a buffet breakfast as well.
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#45 User is offline   LordCanti 

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:25 PM

out of question does it really matter what time you check in?
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Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:42 PM

View PostLordCanti, on 12 November 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

out of question does it really matter what time you check in?



if your going to be checking in latter than 4. then I would contact the hotel and tell them your expected time of arrival
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#47 User is offline   MsLovelyCookie 

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:23 PM

View Postmagishine, on 12 November 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

if your going to be checking in latter than 4. then I would contact the hotel and tell them your expected time of arrival


I don't think it matters because people are going to checking in after 4pm. I asked and the person said on the phone that it is fine. Besides they will be too busy checking people in to notice the time.

-Was at work when I was typing this from my phone, I got a line of customers and I some how hit the post button when putting the phone away can't take it back anyways.

This post has been edited by MsLovelyCookie: 13 November 2011 - 12:25 AM

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:57 PM

View PostMsLovelyCookie, on 12 November 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Since I have never been to this hotel I'll ask here:

Can you hear anything from inside the hotel rooms? Like people walking pass by or doors slamming shut.

What makes this hotel different from the Hyatt, Double Tree, Hilton or Intercontinental?

The doors closing are actually kinda loud cause they do a little vibrating bang when you shut them (they don't slow close). The hallways are usually pretty ok unless you have a room by the elevators, those can get noisy. The bedroom part is usually pretty safe from noises, but the couch part if you have someone sleep out there can be affected by the noise.

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#49 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:25 PM

View PostMsLovelyCookie, on 12 November 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

I don't think it matters because people are going to checking in after 4pm. I asked and the person said on the phone that it is fine. Besides they will be too busy checking people in to notice the time.


I wouldn't advise this and its not good advice. Whatever time is check in, its better to be there or tell someone ahead of time if you are later. This way, the hotel won't charge you any fees, cancel due to being tardy, etc. Don't assume anything; I know this from experience.

Also the Emb is the most quiet out of all the hotels. I had a suite before and never heard noise in the 'living room area,' or bedroom, and the hotel does have policies about noise. Also the doors are not loud, to my experience. Same with the Hyatt, abit the balcony is loud with drunks and you can sometimes hear them.
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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:46 PM

well i this will be the first year i booked room for acen and i have always tended to get there on Thursday around 10-12 in morning so i wasnt sure if i could check in when i got there or if i had to wait tell 3pm :x
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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:21 AM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 12 November 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

I wouldn't advise this and its not good advice. Whatever time is check in, its better to be there or tell someone ahead of time if you are later. This way, the hotel won't charge you any fees, cancel due to being tardy, etc. Don't assume anything; I know this from experience.

Also the Emb is the most quiet out of all the hotels. I had a suite before and never heard noise in the 'living room area,' or bedroom, and the hotel does have policies about noise. Also the doors are not loud, to my experience. Same with the Hyatt, abit the balcony is loud with drunks and you can sometimes hear them.


When I got to the hotel, both different hotels, last year I didn't get charged for being late, my group got there around 6pm to 6:30pm. The person I talked to 2 years ago said that it was fine that I was arriving late and that there was no charge for being late . But its is best to call and ask for yourself if you are not sure.

View PostLordCanti, on 12 November 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

well i this will be the first year i booked room for acen and i have always tended to get there on Thursday around 10-12 in morning so i wasnt sure if i could check in when i got there or if i had to wait tell 3pm :x


You could check-in early IF AND ONLY IF the room is ready. The Clean-Up Crew has to get the room ready for the next customer to use. So if the previous people didn't leave before the Cleaning people started they have to skip the room and come later when the room is empty. My mom was a former Cleaning lady at a hotel before I was born. You can ask the front desk if a room is ready for check-in, it won't hurt to ask, if not then you better learn the rules to the Waiting Game. :thumbdown: :yawn: :clap: :happydance:
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#52 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:36 AM

View PostLordCanti, on 12 November 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

well i this will be the first year i booked room for acen and i have always tended to get there on Thursday around 10-12 in morning so i wasnt sure if i could check in when i got there or if i had to wait tell 3pm :x



Call the day before and tell them that you are going to come in earlier than the check in time so that there is no confusion and they have your room ready. The check in time that's usually with booking is the suggested time but they can accomondate you it be needed. I have personally been there on time and they had to get the room ready. It varies on the last person who messed it up; it can take anywhere from five minutes to an hour in my case last year.

@cookie: It varies from hotel to hotel due to polices and just how the staff feels at that moment, but I remember an issue with the Hyatt about checking in late and just assuming that 'well it's a crowded hotel so the front desk wouldn't mind,' without informing someone beforehand; they charged extra because they ended up canceling the reservation among other issues.

So yeah I thought exactly the same as you and got burned.
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#53 User is offline   Valkyrie 

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:36 AM

Bottom line is, be considerate of the hotel, the staff, and policies - including check-in. The Embassy is popular for very good reason, and trust me, they can do business much more smoothly if guests coordinate well with them. Don't just assume that the person on the phone is right about late/early check-ins being okay, and that they won't notice the time because they're busy. (Having worked in customer service for many years, I can tell you the opposite is true.) If people don't arrive during check-in hours and haven't given notice as to when they'll be in, and with many others flocking in in hopes of getting a room, how is the hotel staff to know that those reserved guests will actually come (if arriving late) or that the room should have been ready (if arriving early)?

This post has been edited by Valkyrie: 13 November 2011 - 12:36 PM

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#54 User is offline   neomiroku 

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 04:35 AM

i know from years of doing this. it's pretty much what another person said.

if you show up early (like i always have) it's just about if they have the room type you reserved, cleaned and ready for someone to occupy it.

more than likely by 10 or 11am, a good amount of people have checked out. since most places check out is around 11am-noon.

and waiting isn't a huge deal. they will usually keep your stuff by the front if they offer that. considering the size and location of these hotels. they all should be.

and you usually don't have to wait longer than an hour and since it's around lunch time, you can probably go get lunch , walk around the con hotel(hyatt regency o'hare) and then before you know it, room is ready to go.

but it's pretty important imo, that you respect the staff and be nice. they are busy with con people as well as normal guest. which i have to believe is more stressful and annoying to deal with.

i think for the most part acen go'ers are nice, but considering how i see the con hotel abused and almost vandalized every year i've been there. i know it's not a 100% effort by everyone to be nice.

i'm glad my group room leader got a room here, it'll be less than likely to have the noisy people there or the partying kind.

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:49 AM

(TL;DR -- dear gods this is a long post be forewarned)

View PostLordCanti, on 12 November 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

out of question does it really matter what time you check in?

Yes and no.

Either way, it's best to give notice to the hotel ahead of time so they can accommodate you (or at least make sure you -have- a room to check-in to when you get there). Coming near a decade now, you learn each hotel is a little different in policy, and a little different in attitude & handling of things. The Embassy doesn't really care earlier/later as long as you still pay, the Hyatt is overworked & underpaid (& you're lucky to check-in on time, even IF you get there way early!), & the DoubleTree is not particularly agreeable on or with many/most things (I have complaints about them elsewhere, lest I tl;dr derail this thread in rambling) though you can be grudgingly let check-in early if you ask nicely enough with crushed innocence and bunnies and rainbows in your eyes. The former Sofitel-turned-Rosemont Hotel-turned-Hilton Rosemont I can't comment on as they've changed owners/crew multiple times in recent years, and the Intercontinental I've not stayed in since its recent (enough) opening. From what I've heard off friends having stayed there several years running, the Marriot is friendly and helpful enough - just make sure to be courteous and let them know if late/early so they can continue to be super-helpful.

Embassy Suite's early arrival handling --v
Check-in early, they (Embassy Suites) don't care -- every year I've stayed at a hotel I have checked in before 9am, in most cases actually 8am or prior. Note early arrival on your reservation or call the hotel when you're on your way early. This won't be a problem for Thursday or Friday morning arrivals, but could be problematic if you are checking in on Saturday (when the rooms will already have been full from con Friday). The Embassy has always been lovely & helpful about early check-in, and if you get there before breakfast hour ends you get to go in & eat too (though remember weekdays' breakfast time ends WAY earlier than weekend's time). Check-in late, risk not having a room. The Embassy's the most popular con hotel (between the free breakfast & Happy Hour & less drunken debauchery), so if you try checking in late without calling the hotel to say you will be late, you will 9-1 find yourself without a room. (*Note I'm talking more than 20-30 min here, closer to 1hr +, late. They do hold it about an hour; we all know how Chicago traffic --especially near O'Hare-- at rush hour is.)

Late check-in is NOT recommended for ANY hotel unless it is entirely unavoidable, like emergency, or late airplane arrival, or "rush hour" or something of the like. IF you MUST arrive/check-in late, make it noted in BOLD/CAPS in your reservation (if you know ahead of time/can edit it before you arrive) & ALWAYS call the hotel to notify them when you become aware and then again around standard check-in time to make sure they hold a room for you & don't sell it as a "left over" room to late-booking attendees. Ultimately --barring anything except grave emergency or delayed airlines/trapped in rush hour-- do no be late if avoidable, or at least makes sure to call your hotel with a heads up. If you are late and do not call your hotel, you may find yourself at the con without a room (& the odds are NOT in your favor on this one).


View PostMsLovelyCookie, on 12 November 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Since I have never been to this hotel I'll ask here:

Can you hear anything from inside the hotel rooms? Like people walking past/by or doors slamming shut.

What makes this hotel different from the Hyatt, Double Tree, Hilton or Intercontinental?

Difference from the other hotels:
- you have a two room "suite" -- spacious bedroom, then decent bathroom (not nearly as big as DoubleTree, but larger than Hyatt's), then living room w/ queen sofa-bed, tv & kitchenette (microwave, coffee pot, fridge, sink).
- nearest hotel (along w/ DblTree) to convention center's entrance - literally just cross River Rd, walk in door & you're in
- you DON'T get charged extortional fees to use the fridge & microwave in your room
- FREE BREAKFAST (FOR ALL) & HAPPY HOUR (*FOR 21+*)
- staff that is NOT rude or condescending to you just because you happen to be dressed up in costume! (>:/ @ Hyatt & DoubleTree staff!)
- they also go out of their way to be helpful and polite! (one was kind enough to fridge our leftovers while we waited for our ride to clear parking's check-out chaos, nearly 40 minutes! ^^d)

- quick response from front desk if you have room problems - even at 3am! (toilet broke & <10min later maintenance was fixing it ^^d)
- unlike the Hyatt, the elevators still work(!!) come checkout! 8D
- no encountering/hearing rutting people/lost underwear/obscene things in stairways, bathrooms, et al! (srsly Hyatt security, step it up plz? :/)
- it's actually quiet enough to sleep if you want to! 8'D
- FREE BREAKFAST (FOR ALL) & HAPPY HOUR (*FOR 21+*)

As for hearing noise/door slamming, there is good an bad here.
* Good *
- Unless you area light sleeper or it's mid-post rave hours, you likely won't hear much from outside your room. After rave + party end & everyone is drunk and loud and throwing their bodies into people's doors and they stagger trying to find which way is up, yeah, you might hear some noise (esp. if your door is one that's hit), but it's NOTHING at all like the Hyatt in noise levels, or anywhere remotely near it. (Maybe 1/10th at max?)
- Unless your neighbors are the loudest, fornicatingest rabbits ever, you're not gonna hear through your wall what's going on next door (...& if they ARE, if anything you'll likely only just hear an occasional awkward sound/wall getting slammed into like a bull hit it). Nothing -too- bad, and generally overall quiet minus echoing chatter around breakfast, ultimately muffled by your door anyway.
- Door slamming isn't very loud, barring the REALLY heavily slammed nearby ones -- not as common noise-wise as the Hyatt, since it seems the Embassy is a more grownup / less-heavily-inebriated-for-three-straight-days kind of crowd.

* Not - so - Good *
- During The Not-Technically-A-Fire of 2010, the alarm system COULD NOT be heard in the suite bedrooms. As I was getting ready for a shower & nap, I only noticed there was something going on bc there were people visibly RUNNING past my room door and screaming at the top of their lungs as they went by -- I open my door to consider yelling at them like a cranky old person & complain, & then got hit in the face w/ haze & funny smell, literally empty hotel, and WARNING EVACUATE speaker message. Now, seeing how this made mainstream tv news that night, they MAY have fixed this issue since then (& if not i will personally be nagging the head manager to fix it until they do dammit >:/) Small detail, but it could be very problematic in the right/wrong circumstances if unfixed. Pretty much the one drawback/caveat for the Embassy..
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#56 User is offline   kimuhalu 

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:10 PM

^If you do get a room right next to the stairwells, you will hear noise. >_<
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#57 User is offline   MsLovelyCookie 

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:24 PM

View Postchainedbyroses, on 17 November 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:


Difference from the other hotels:
- you have a two room "suite" -- spacious bedroom, then decent bathroom (not nearly as big as DoubleTree, but larger than Hyatt's), then living room w/ queen sofa-bed, tv & kitchenette (microwave, coffee pot, fridge, sink).
- nearest hotel (along w/ DblTree) to convention center's entrance - literally just cross River Rd, walk in door & you're in
- you DON'T get charged extortional fees to use the fridge & microwave in your room
- FREE BREAKFAST (FOR ALL) & HAPPY HOUR (*FOR 21+*)
- staff that is NOT rude or condescending to you just because you happen to be dressed up in costume! (>:/ @ Hyatt & DoubleTree staff!)
- they also go out of their way to be helpful and polite! (one was kind enough to fridge our leftovers while we waited for our ride to clear parking's check-out chaos, nearly 40 minutes! ^^d)

- quick response from front desk if you have room problems - even at 3am! (toilet broke & <10min later maintenance was fixing it ^^d)
- unlike the Hyatt, the elevators still work(!!) come checkout! 8D
- no encountering/hearing rutting people/lost underwear/obscene things in stairways, bathrooms, et al! (srsly Hyatt security, step it up plz? :/)
- it's actually quiet enough to sleep if you want to! 8'D
- FREE BREAKFAST (FOR ALL) & HAPPY HOUR (*FOR 21+*)

As for hearing noise/door slamming, there is good an bad here.
* Good *
- Unless you area light sleeper or it's mid-post rave hours, you likely won't hear much from outside your room. After rave + party end & everyone is drunk and loud and throwing their bodies into people's doors and they stagger trying to find which way is up, yeah, you might hear some noise (esp. if your door is one that's hit), but it's NOTHING at all like the Hyatt in noise levels, or anywhere remotely near it. (Maybe 1/10th at max?)
- Unless your neighbors are the loudest, fornicatingest rabbits ever, you're not gonna hear through your wall what's going on next door (...& if they ARE, if anything you'll likely only just hear an occasional awkward sound/wall getting slammed into like a bull hit it). Nothing -too- bad, and generally overall quiet minus echoing chatter around breakfast, ultimately muffled by your door anyway.
- Door slamming isn't very loud, barring the REALLY heavily slammed nearby ones -- not as common noise-wise as the Hyatt, since it seems the Embassy is a more grownup / less-heavily-inebriated-for-three-straight-days kind of crowd.

* Not - so - Good *
- During The Not-Technically-A-Fire of 2010, the alarm system COULD NOT be heard in the suite bedrooms. As I was getting ready for a shower & nap, I only noticed there was something going on bc there were people visibly RUNNING past my room door and screaming at the top of their lungs as they went by -- I open my door to consider yelling at them like a cranky old person & complain, & then got hit in the face w/ haze & funny smell, literally empty hotel, and WARNING EVACUATE speaker message. Now, seeing how this made mainstream tv news that night, they MAY have fixed this issue since then (& if not i will personally be nagging the head manager to fix it until they do dammit >:/) Small detail, but it could be very problematic in the right/wrong circumstances if unfixed. Pretty much the one drawback/caveat for the Embassy..



View Postkimuhalu, on 26 November 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

^If you do get a room right next to the stairwells, you will hear noise. >_<


Good to know what has happen in the party hotel. Either way people will still do crazy things in the hotel room. :eek: :thumbdown:
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#58 User is offline   SpicyNinjaCat 

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:44 PM

Anyone know if there is such as a thing as a "waitlist" in case someone cancels at the Embassy? I'll be willing to give the hotel my CC and authorize them to charge it. Otherwise I don't know if there is a way to check for availability again :/
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