[Ramza Beoulve]

Sarahlicious, on 30 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Touching is touching, regardless of the roughness.

I don't subscribe to all that nonsense. People are getting more and more reserved these days. Its almost hard to even have a conversation with them, without them acting like you're going to give them the plague. I gave someone Leprosy via high-five though.

[Kikai]

Geh. I don't mind hugs either, when people *ask* for them. I had an Artist Alley table and do not usually cosplay while behind my table for a lot of reasons. But my assistant was at a bachelor's party for the day and I was manning it by myself. I had a shoot to be at by 5:00 and decided it was easier to just stay in costume all day. I was dressed in a bunny outfit.

I came around my table to check a new set up I had just made and was glomped from behind by a girl who yelled "CUTE BUNNY!" and knocked me in to my table, knocking over a bunch of things (including a new expensixe figure I'd just bought! DX) and knocking me off balance (I was in heels). Then without another word she ran off in another direction leaving me half on the floor with a bunch of my stuff on the ground. Had this girl asked for a hug it would have been a-ok. The glomping from behind thing is not only annoying but just really rude as well. I'll give ya a hug! I don't bite I promise! Just let me know it's coming! D:

[Ramza Beoulve]

Kikai, on 30 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Geh. I don't mind hugs either, when people *ask* for them. I had an Artist Alley table and do not usually cosplay while behind my table for a lot of reasons. But my assistant was at a bachelor's party for the day and I was manning it by myself. I had a shoot to be at by 5:00 and decided it was easier to just stay in costume all day. I was dressed in a bunny outfit.

I came around my table to check a new set up I had just made and was glomped from behind by a girl who yelled "CUTE BUNNY!" and knocked me in to my table, knocking over a bunch of things (including a new expensixe figure I'd just bought! DX) and knocking me off balance (I was in heels). Then without another word she ran off in another direction leaving me half on the floor with a bunch of my stuff on the ground. Had this girl asked for a hug it would have been a-ok. The glomping from behind thing is not only annoying but just really rude as well. I'll give ya a hug! I don't bite I promise! Just let me know it's coming! D:

Well that situation was pretty crappy. I wouldn't want to be glomped in the dealer's room anyway. Its all concrete...lot of sharp objects >.> xD *hugs from the front* Nothing was broke, including yourself, right?

[Dark Kanine]

I can't blame you guys for wanting no glomping, one guy I came across busted his ankle from a glomp.

[Kikai]

Ramza Beoulve, on 30 April 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Well that situation was pretty crappy. I wouldn't want to be glomped in the dealer's room anyway. Its all concrete...lot of sharp objects >.> xD *hugs from the front* Nothing was broke, including yourself, right?

Wasn't as bad as last year! Last year a guy came up behind me and groped my breasts from behind while I was in costume. I turned around and punched his lights out and told him to never ever touch a woman (or man for that matter) with out permission no matter what she is dressed as. The crowd that had gathered around the situation clapped and we all moved on with our lives. (I'd heard the guy tried to get IRT to kick me out, but they must have realized he deserved what was coming to him.)

This post has been edited by Kikai: 30 April 2012 - 08:08 AM

[IRT- Outlaw]

That does sound dangerous and I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience like that, I'm not sure if any other IRT saw this thread but I will keep this in mind and bring it up with my supervisor. I know a medic did post here and they know their stuff and IRT helps with crowd control and to make sure everyone is safe, so maybe it should be talked about but I'm just an operative I can't do anything in sorry. But if you want a bodyguard for 2013 I can help ^^.

~outlaw

[Rori]

Kikai, on 30 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

I came around my table to check a new set up I had just made and was glomped from behind by a girl who yelled "CUTE BUNNY!" and knocked me in to my table, knocking over a bunch of things (including a new expensixe figure I'd just bought! DX) and knocking me off balance (I was in heels). Then without another word she ran off in another direction leaving me half on the floor with a bunch of my stuff on the ground.

This girl sounds EXACTLY like the girl who glomped my husband in AA. He was in full cosplay and glomped from the back, but luckily he wasn't hurt (he caught himself so he didn't fall on the floor or a table). When he turned around, she was already running away. I'm not sure who this inconsiderate individual was, but I hope they do not do this in the future.

It is especially important to remember in someplace like AA, you could end up hurting more than one person (crowds) and/or damaging merchandise.

Kikai, on 30 April 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Had this girl asked for a hug it would have been a-ok. The glomping from behind thing is not only annoying but just really rude as well. I'll give ya a hug! I don't bite I promise! Just let me know it's coming! D:

I second this, asking for hugs is more than acceptable. I've been asked for them in the past and I think its much better for all parties involved.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Kikai, on 30 April 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Wasn't as bad as last year! Last year a guy came up behind me and groped my breasts from behind while I was in costume. I turned around and punched his lights out and told him to never ever touch a woman (or man for that matter) with out permission no matter what she is dressed as. The crowd that had gathered around the situation clapped and we all moved on with our lives. (I'd heard the guy tried to get IRT to kick me out, but they must have realized he deserved what was coming to him.)

Sad that you got groped, but not gonna lie...that's a bad butt story. *Imagining random creeper getting his clock cleaned* XD Total ANIME moment.

[BakaBarbarian]

It amazes me that we even need to have this conversation. Perhaps if the standards of behavior at ACEN were addressed years ago when they started to get bad, we wouldn't have to have a discussion of whether glomping should be considered assault and who's to blame for it. ACEN's policy should be: immediately calling the police and revoking the glomper's badge and giving them a permaban. If the person who was glomped doesn't want to press charges, ACEN should still be able to complain to the police on the grounds that it's their show, and people who are going around essentially tackling people need to be removed by professionals.

[ATICE]

I've always been under the impression someone should ask for a hug. I really don't understand glomping, unless you KNOW it's your friend and they like that kind of crap... Which still is even... awkward and a no-no.

[myrla]

I was asked once by a stranger if they could glomp me, and I let them. They were very sweet, was a very little glomp, and they moved on.

I did however see one guy randomly glomping people (knocking them over, into things, etc) and I stopped walking, leaned against a pillar, and had my crutch ready to hit him if he tried it on me. He looked at me and I raised my crutch and eyeballed him, and he moved on.

[Ramza Beoulve]

BakaBarbarian, on 30 April 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

It amazes me that we even need to have this conversation. Perhaps if the standards of behavior at ACEN were addressed years ago when they started to get bad, we wouldn't have to have a discussion of whether glomping should be considered assault and who's to blame for it. ACEN's policy should be: immediately calling the police and revoking the glomper's badge and giving them a permaban. If the person who was glomped doesn't want to press charges, ACEN should still be able to complain to the police on the grounds that it's their show, and people who are going around essentially tackling people need to be removed by professionals.

ATICE, on 01 May 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

I've always been under the impression someone should ask for a hug. I really don't understand glomping, unless you KNOW it's your friend and they like that kind of crap... Which still is even... awkward and a no-no.

myrla, on 01 May 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

I was asked once by a stranger if they could glomp me, and I let them. They were very sweet, was a very little glomp, and they moved on.

I did however see one guy randomly glomping people (knocking them over, into things, etc) and I stopped walking, leaned against a pillar, and had my crutch ready to hit him if he tried it on me. He looked at me and I raised my crutch and eyeballed him, and he moved on.

Well, generally I've noticed people do ask to glomp or hug. There are just some people who can't control themselves. I used to surpise-jump on my friend from behind at school a long time ago. I wouldn't glomp random people though. Also, my hugs are usually primered by holding my arms out in appeal. I still wouldn't mind someone randomly hugging or glomping me, as long as it's not in a dangerous area.

[montoya]

Ramza Beoulve, on 01 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Well, generally I've noticed people do ask to glomp or hug. There are just some people who can't control themselves. I used to surpise-jump on my friend from behind at school a long time ago. I wouldn't glomp random people though. Also, my hugs are usually primered by holding my arms out in appeal. I still wouldn't mind someone randomly hugging or glomping me, as long as it's not in a dangerous area.

Well, I don't think "some people can't control themselves" is a good excuse for anything. As you go on to say, people ask. What the ACen staff really need to do is reinforce a culture of consent, really. Ask someone for permission before you start touching them. Wait for an absolute yes. No one owes you a hug/photo/etc.

[Ramza Beoulve]

montoya, on 01 May 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Well, I don't think "some people can't control themselves" is a good excuse for anything. As you go on to say, people ask. What the ACen staff really need to do is reinforce a culture of consent, really. Ask someone for permission before you start touching them. Wait for an absolute yes. No one owes you a hug/photo/etc.

I didn't claim that it was an excuse, though it is a reason. It's almost insane to even have to bring up asking permission to touch someone. Usually a physical gesture of intent is enough warrant for two people to engage in such things, peaceably. Like, holding out your hand for a hand shake, or holding your hand up for a high five, or outstretching your arms for a hug. That's my general rule of thumb. I also come from a very friendly and touchy-feely family and area that puts emphasis on connecting physical greetings as a staple of social interaction. Although, I realize not everyone is this open and comfortable. One also should expect, as a person who is not socially inclined, or simply has aphephobia, to be aware that many people ARE in fact quite extroverted and informal (extra friendly); ergo, intentions may be misunderstood or cause animosity.

This post has been edited by Ramza Beoulve: 01 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

[montoya]

Ramza Beoulve, on 01 May 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I didn't claim that it was an excuse, though it is a reason. It's almost insane to even have to bring up asking permission to touch someone. Usually a physical gesture of intent is enough warrant for two people to engage in such things, peaceably. Like, holding out your hand for a hand shake, or holding your hand up for a high five, or outstretching your arms for a hug. That's my general rule of thumb. I also come from a very friendly and touchy-feely family and area that puts emphasis on connecting physical greetings as a staple of social interaction. Although, I realize not everyone is this open and comfortable. One also should expect, as a person who is not socially inclined, or simply has aphephobia, to be aware that many people ARE in fact quite extroverted and informal (extra friendly); ergo, intentions may be misunderstood or cause animosity.

How is that insane? Nearly all of the stories here are of perfect strangers thinking that because it's an anime convention that it's okay to touch other people without permission. I'm sorry, not even my friends get away with touching I don't approve of.

Which is why asking for permission will absolve any and all misunderstandings. It also needs to be understood that if someone denies you a huge or a high-five or whatever, then you don't sulk about it. They have the right to do that.

[Ramza Beoulve]

montoya, on 01 May 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

How is that insane? Nearly all of the stories here are of perfect strangers thinking that because it's an anime convention that it's okay to touch other people without permission. I'm sorry, not even my friends get away with touching I don't approve of.

Which is why asking for permission will absolve any and all misunderstandings. It also needs to be understood that if someone denies you a huge or a high-five or whatever, then you don't sulk about it. They have the right to do that.

The insanity part comes from a point that I am not even used to people who are anti-hug or anti-touching. It's not something I'm used to, myself. Only very recently has this issue come up, in my life. It's strange to me; this does NOT mean that I do not understand or sympathize.

Again, I'm from a different type of culture where people typically are physically inclined to touch at greetings. Expecting someone not to misunderstand or sulk over it, is just as inconsiderate as someone who thinks its alright to just touch random people. Nobody said they didn't have the right to refuse. I think you're not getting the clear picture of my stance on this. I've had only maybe, two people not give me a high five (they even looked at me like I was diseased); that's cool, if they're not into that sort of thing.

Very plainly, I agree with you. I'm just saying people on both sides of the spectrum should be made aware and understand either perspective, so everyone can be contented.

[Unka Josh]

Ramza Beoulve, on 01 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Well, generally I've noticed people do ask to glomp or hug. There are just some people who can't control themselves.

No offense intended here, but if you can't control yourself from jumping strangers in a crowd, you need to stay home.

I will not accept this as an excuse. If you can't restrain yourself from committing assault and battery, don't come to Acen. I think that's pretty basic.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Unka Josh, on 01 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

No offense intended here, but if you can't control yourself from jumping strangers in a crowd, you need to stay home.

I will not accept this as an excuse. If you can't restrain yourself from committing assault and battery, don't come to Acen. I think that's pretty basic.

Again, nobody made any excuses, so please stop making assumptions and read the entirety of my statements. Also, if they could control themselves they probably WOULD stay home, innit? I'm not one of these people.

[Yandere Emi]

On a similar note: My best friend and I were doing a private photoshoot with a photographer. The photographer was working with just me while my friend stood off to the side. I couldn't see her because obviously I was busy! Apparently a guy came over and began talking to her. She's super polite and nice, so she talked to him for a while. After a few minutes he asked her for a hug, which, being a nice person, she agreed to. This guy proceeds to PICK HER UP. She yelled at him then, but apparently he did this to a bunch of girls, apparently trying to see how many girls he could get to squeal. Just because she agreed to a hug does NOT make this okay. I don't know if it's just the excitement, but I don't see how being in a con environment makes thisngs like this acceptable.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Yandere Emi, on 01 May 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

On a similar note: My best friend and I were doing a private photoshoot with a photographer. The photographer was working with just me while my friend stood off to the side. I couldn't see her because obviously I was busy! Apparently a guy came over and began talking to her. She's super polite and nice, so she talked to him for a while. After a few minutes he asked her for a hug, which, being a nice person, she agreed to. This guy proceeds to PICK HER UP. She yelled at him then, but apparently he did this to a bunch of girls, apparently trying to see how many girls he could get to squeal. Just because she agreed to a hug does NOT make this okay. I don't know if it's just the excitement, but I don't see how being in a con environment makes thisngs like this acceptable.

You also have to assume that some people simply do not care. There are trolls and there are people who simply do not have any boundaries. Again, before someone misunderstands I am NOT in any way making excuses.

Someone on staff told me there was a guy that keeps coming to cons and hijacking shoots and panels and events and nobody knows who the hell he is. He claims to be a staffer, but he's really not. Its not just a physical thing, but some people try to pretend to be in a position of authority.

[montoya]

Ramza Beoulve, on 01 May 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

You also have to assume that some people simply do not care. There are trolls and there are people who simply do not have any boundaries. Again, before someone misunderstands I am NOT in any way making excuses.

Someone on staff told me there was a guy that keeps coming to cons and hijacking shoots and panels and events and nobody knows who the hell he is. He claims to be a staffer, but he's really not. Its not just a physical thing, but some people try to pretend to be in a position of authority.

I don't see why you're bothering to defend such people if you're so insistent that you're not one of these people. I don't exactly see why you're bothering if you agree otherwise, it just looks like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If there are these kinds of people, then you create a zero tolerance policy. Plain and simple. Want to touch someone? Ask for their permission. Don't push it if they say no. Anyone who breaks these rules should be handled accordingly and we should ENCOURAGE people to speak out, report, etc.

[Ramza Beoulve]

montoya, on 01 May 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

I don't see why you're bothering to defend such people if you're so insistent that you're not one of these people. I don't exactly see why you're bothering if you agree otherwise, it just looks like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If there are these kinds of people, then you create a zero tolerance policy. Plain and simple. Want to touch someone? Ask for their permission. Don't push it if they say no. Anyone who breaks these rules should be handled accordingly and we should ENCOURAGE people to speak out, report, etc.

That's my point. You're assuming I'm defending them. I'm not. I just believe people should be aware of WHY people do things, so that they can make an informed judgement. I'm not defending or excusing or apologizing. xD

I'm coming from a stance that is more open to touching and hugging and playfulness. I did not want people to confuse that with what these inconsiderate people are doing (which many often do).

[Sapphy]

Ramza Beoulve, on 01 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

That's my point. You're assuming I'm defending them. I'm not. I just believe people should be aware of WHY people do things, so that they can make an informed judgement. I'm not defending or excusing or apologizing. xD

I can be as understanding as anyone about WHY some people decide to run up to people and nearly tackle them without the person having a clue about what's just happened to them, but I can and will still call it assault and battery.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Sapphy, on 01 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

I can be as understanding as anyone about WHY some people decide to run up to people and nearly tackle them without the person having a clue about what's just happened to them, but I can and will still call it assault and battery.

Not arguing with you. XD I'm gonna be a cop so I deffo know what assault and battery are.

[BakaBarbarian]

Unka Josh, on 01 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

No offense intended here, but if you can't control yourself from jumping strangers in a crowd, you need to stay home.

I will not accept this as an excuse. If you can't restrain yourself from committing assault and battery, don't come to Acen. I think that's pretty basic.

So...how to translate this into ACEN's ability to police the behavior of its attendees? Maybe some of these folks who are out of control need to be arrested and their badges revoked before the word gets out that randomly tackling strangers in public is considered unacceptable behavior. Perhaps that should be IRT's standard response to things of this nature--moreso than it is already. Call police first, yoink the badge, ask questions later. If IRT can't handle it, then perhaps hiring a security firm or bringing the Rosemont police inside the building would be the next step.

[Unka Josh]

That's really a question for IRT, in this case, so I'd strongly suggest bringing it up to them. (Often, things like this aren't reported to them, but I don't know how much reporting actually happens, and they would.)

[BakaBarbarian]

Unka Josh, on 01 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

That's really a question for IRT, in this case, so I'd strongly suggest bringing it up to them. (Often, things like this aren't reported to them, but I don't know how much reporting actually happens, and they would.)

Are IRT monitoring these threads? A lot of the issues brought up here involve them.

[chainedbyroses]

BakaBarbarian, on 02 May 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Are IRT monitoring these threads? A lot of the issues brought up here involve them.

You may want to link this on the IRT sections if you want a direct reply, or at least one faster, at any rate.

[IRT- Outlaw]

Well I'm just an operative but, I've read over the thread and yes these are issues. The best answer I can give with my knowledge is any threat of the safety of a con goer is against con rules and should be reported. Technically then "glomping" then shouldn't be allowed and from reading about these stories I hear. but I will inform my DH about it

~Outlaw

[BakaBarbarian]

IRT- Outlaw, on 04 May 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Well I'm just an operative but, I've read over the thread and yes these are issues. The best answer I can give with my knowledge is any threat of the safety of a con goer is against con rules and should be reported. Technically then "glomping" then shouldn't be allowed and from reading about these stories I hear. but I will inform my DH about it

~Outlaw

I would love to hear what they have to say about it. And thanks for monitoring the thread.