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Why can't we have nice things?

#31 User is offline   rondo 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:25 AM

As to why this happens, well you have a rather large party environment with a significant numbers of people away from their parents (particularly the young adults and teens), so stupid (and sometimes damaging) things are gonna happen. I honestly do not think you can prevent this. If the hotel blocks up the outside balconies, they'll just toss stuff down from the inside (remember the shopping cart?).

The onus really needs to be on fellow congoers to try to influence unwieldy people to not go too stupid or to report incidents as they happen.

You could always go the four camera route and watch each side of the hotel.

It could suck for the person whose name is on the room if someone did it but they are also responsible for the people who they let in.

#32 User is offline   okaonos 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:32 AM

There are plenty of other cons in the country, both anime/manga and other genres, that are the same size or larger than us. Have we collaborated with any of them before? Perhaps they have better crowd control strategies that we can adapt.
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#33 User is offline   ranefea 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:37 AM

View Postldychaos, on 25 May 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

This may also sound mean, but I vaguely remember it mentioned on the forums before. There were a lot of people posting about the lack of guests they wanted, maybe fliers and announcements could be posted to the effect of "This guest, (insert name) was willing to come, but we spent the money fixing this because someone decided to do (insert destructive behavior)". It may deter some from being destructive but not all of them. Unfortunately there are some that destroy because they have never faced the consequences or do not care about the consequences of their actions.


One of the problems with this is there are people who come to the con solely for the party. They could care less about the con itself and so if there is one less awesome guest or event, it doesn't affect them in any way. They don't care that they're making the con worse for EVERYONE else, as long as they have fun. =( I'm not saying it's 100% of these people causing the damages, but I'm willing to bet that it's a lot of them. =/

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#34 User is offline   Youkulm 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:45 AM

View Postranefea, on 26 May 2011 - 08:37 AM, said:


One of the problems with this is there are people who come to the con solely for the party. They could care less about the con itself and so if there is one less awesome guest or event, it doesn't affect them in any way. They don't care that they're making the con worse for EVERYONE else, as long as they have fun. =( I'm not saying it's 100% of these people causing the damages, but I'm willing to bet that it's a lot of them. =/



I agree. I mean who else is getting drunk? I can't think of anyone getting drunk so they can go watch anime in the video rooms or play video games. I never had a problem with the raves before but the larger the con gets the more issues it causes. This really needs to be put in check. Its a family convention and I know a large number of people that wont be back if this tend continues.. because its not a safe environment for their kids. Its just unfortunate a few bad apples ruin the dances for everyone else. :(

And not just ruin the dances.. but the entire con. I mean look at what could be done with that money? We could get more guests, more events and so forth, but no... not now. Now if we don't find who did it.. a window has to be fixed.. *fume*

I honestly dont think theres much of solution to this. Theres no real way to forbid alcohol, i mean the hotel sells it on site. Also if we got rid of the raves there are people, nice, honest people who DONT do things like this that will suffer. I don't attend dances myself, but its not fair to them to just do away with it.

This post has been edited by Youkulm: 26 May 2011 - 09:48 AM

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#35 User is offline   animedancer87 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:57 AM

I wish this could be handled like college (i.e. different levels of offenses=different levels of reprimands). And if this is already in the program--forgive me, I've only gone once and it was last year. Not knowing where the official lines cross for ACEN and the Hyatt for destructive behavior (already know there's gray areas), at what point (if any) can ACEN revoke badges? I mean, if you're the ones who are forced to foot the bill I'd hope you can revoke the badge/day pass. Are these people just staying at the hotel and happen to go to the dance or what?

I was a student staff member in college and remember quite specifically some of the idiotic "funny" things certain groups of students chose to do on campus. It's never funny, something's always broken, and when they got the bill for their actions they wanted to play the victim. This really is a sticky situation since there are so many levels of people involved. I'm digging my brain just to figure out if there is anything specific enough that can be used other than the usual "watch out for each other" method.
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#36 User is offline   Yukinari 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:04 AM

View PostChristy, on 26 May 2011 - 08:25 AM, said:

That sounds like it was an... interesting... party.

Seriously though. For those of you who like to bring alchol to the con, behavior like this gives the con reason to restrict drinking at Anime Central and turn this into a dry con. At some point somebody's going to do something so spectarically stupid, they're going to say "No more." I suspect that's probably why the con suite went the way of the Dodo - I'd poked my head in there towards the end of con once while they still had it and it was disgusting. The whole place was trashed - like sombody decided to have the world's biggest food fight and follow it up with a rave just to grind everything into the carpet.

To prevent future balcony incidents, perhaps the hotel can find a way to lock down the balconies to the outside during the con so that the occupents can't go out there anymore. I'm also in favor of restricting room parties to a single tower or set of floors judged to be best likely to take damage and least likely to cause problems to others.

For the con-goers - you guys are right in that this sort of behaivor ruins things for everybody. But making sure incidents get reported so that the idiots responsble can be dealt with directly instead of the convention having to be made responsible helps mitigate stupid behavior. If this person had been caught right after, they would be paying for the window, not Acen. Even if it was an accident, not reporting it to hotel staff and taking responsability was an ignorant thing to do. So if you see incidents of somebody preparing to cause damage to the hotel, staff or attendees, try to step in and warn them off. If you see somebody who is already in progress or just caused said damage, flag down any staff member right away and point them in the right direction so the con can deal with it quickly.

ldychaos is right. The money the convention now has to spend on replacing that window could have gone into any number of the departments. So question to both reinforce the idea and give staff ideas for what you'd like to see next year. Let's assume that the window was $10,000 - what would you have spent that on for next year?

i have herd about these damages and i have also herd of the previous years damages, they are quite impressive. i recommend making drinking and being drunk on the con floor agents the con rules indefinitely and booking a low level floor for room parties. i witnessed for my self drinking and being drunk on the con floor and i think it may be the root of the problem. another thing that could help, encourage others to inform IRT of destructive behavior. just because we piratically own the building for a weekend does NOT mean that we can break and destroy the property. People think it's just ACen being lame when they don't have good guest and no real new and exciting events when truth is the upkeep cost of the con have risen so they can't get these things.

UPKEEP COSTS GO UP = SOME DRUNK IDIOT THROWING STUFF ONTO THE DOME... but... what would happen if there was a year with no terribly destructive behavior?

UPKEEP COSTS GO DOWN = NEW GUEST, EVENTS, MAYBE AN AWESOME SURPRISE OR TWO FOR THE NEXT YEAR

This post has been edited by Yukinari: 26 May 2011 - 10:23 AM

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#37 User is offline   JediNight 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:31 AM

View Postranefea, on 26 May 2011 - 08:37 AM, said:


One of the problems with this is there are people who come to the con solely for the party. They could care less about the con itself and so if there is one less awesome guest or event, it doesn't affect them in any way. They don't care that they're making the con worse for EVERYONE else, as long as they have fun. =( I'm not saying it's 100% of these people causing the damages, but I'm willing to bet that it's a lot of them. =/



Not to be a downer, but I've said this for several years now, and it seems to be nipping us in the butt more: as ranefea says here, I feel we have a large chunk of our attendance now that merely comes here to party, and couldn't care less about any or most of the rest of the con. For all intents and purposes Acen hosts an underage rave and dance. I plan to compile a listing of every reply I've seen this year complaining about public drunkenness, drug use, etc... it's quite a few. A lot more than I remember seeing in years past.

And yes, "but they are really popular with attendees!" ... of course. We are hosting an underage rave/dance. The chances for this sort of thing are few when underage, plus the maturity level, so people do stupid stuff. I really feel that we need to either cut back or eliminate the rave/dance if we want the con to be viable in the future. We're just gambling with something really bad happening at this point. I haven't been to any other con where the dances are this crazy. Even Otakon which is somewhat larger has a far less crazy dance. These used to be just a fun little dance for a few hours with some anime/japanese related songs. Now it's drawing the raver crowd. (Or maybe they just need to leave the lights on as a deterrent? Then we can see whats going on better)

Maybe I'm just being biased, but I honestly don't remember anywhere near the level of property destruction and bad behavior at the con in the 2002-2006 before the dances were out of control.

My advice: Don't make all attendees pay, charge an extra $5-10 for the dance IMHO. Our damages issues seems to by far stem from the out of control behavior related to the dance/rave. Maybe spawn off the event to another site? Or move it earlier and hold it from like 6-10pm. Also, ticketing the event would control the insane lines -- sell X number of tickets and thats it. Then you can disperse the rest of the line.

#38 User is offline   Youkulm 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:38 AM

View PostJediNight, on 26 May 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

My advice: Don't make all attendees pay, charge an extra $5-10 for the dance IMHO. Our damages issues seems to by far stem from the out of control behavior related to the dance/rave. Maybe spawn off the event to another site? Or move it earlier and hold it from like 6-10pm. Also, ticketing the event would control the insane lines -- sell X number of tickets and thats it. Then you can disperse the rest of the line.


This seems like a very viable answer. Sure people who got full weekend memberships will be angry, but the tickets go to pay for the damages that are likely to be caused by people who are intoxicated. Think of it as a charity ;p lol. Plus with the tickets, it might help eliminate non-con-goers who come to just rave ( Like those who try to buy badges off con-goers on the street? Those kind of people. ) If there are a set number of tickets it will help a lot I think... as much as its going to upset people.

If its the best part of ACen for some people I think they should be willing to help pay for it.
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#39 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:53 AM

View PostYoukulm, on 26 May 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

This seems like a very viable answer. Sure people who got full weekend memberships will be angry, but the tickets go to pay for the damages that are likely to be caused by people who are intoxicated. Think of it as a charity ;p lol. Plus with the tickets, it might help eliminate non-con-goers who come to just rave ( Like those who try to buy badges off con-goers on the street? Those kind of people. ) If there are a set number of tickets it will help a lot I think... as much as its going to upset people.

If its the best part of ACen for some people I think they should be willing to help pay for it.


Dunno about this answer. How about the people like me who don't go to Acen to get drunk and just go to the rave because so and so friend wanted them to join?

The badges are already 55 dollars so there has to be another way to go about this then have everyone pay 5-15 dollars to go into the rave :(
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#40 User is offline   Lord Warhammer 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:55 AM

Ticketing the dance would cap attendance for the event which would allow it to be controlled better.. and the 3hr line outside would be gone. However if people can't get into the dance at night and still want to party, this does have the option of spawning an increase in room parties.

Unfortunately the comedians are probably right: "You can't fix stupid" and "You can't kill stupid"
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#41 User is offline   Kytsune 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:21 AM

View PostLord Warhammer, on 26 May 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

Unfortunately the comedians are probably right: "You can't fix stupid" and "You can't kill stupid"


This is pretty much it, right here.

I've seen a lot of insane and ridiculous things happen on my college campus in the five years I've been here. No matter what you do to prevent this type of behavior, it will surface. Some people are simply destructive, and while it's asinine, it's also just the way they act. Additionally, turning Acen into an alcohol-free event isn't really going to stop this; all it will do will stop the people who are responsible with alcohol from having it. The ones who are bound to wreck things are going to have it anyway because, as they demonstrate, they don't follow the rules.

As far as claiming that issues stem from the rave or whatever, I doubt changing that is really going to affect much. These problems are caused by individuals, and those individuals make up an extremely small portion of the convention's attendance.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any suggestions on what to do from this point forward. Locking balconies seems like a bad idea, if only for the reasoning above. The people who are causing problems will just cause them elsewhere. I suppose one idea would be to offer some kind of incentive for reporting this type of behavior, but that could get out of hand very quickly as well. Either way, I believe that if there's a solution to be found, it would be best for it to be on an individual level rather than a con-wide change.

#42 User is offline   JediNight 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:25 AM

View PostThe Fujoshi, on 26 May 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

Dunno about this answer. How about the people like me who don't go to Acen to get drunk and just go to the rave because so and so friend wanted them to join?

The badges are already 55 dollars so there has to be another way to go about this then have everyone pay 5-15 dollars to go into the rave :(



The dance/rave and related behavior is by far our biggest point of liability and a large drain on staff resources IMHO. Running the event causes damages basically every year. It's impossible to have enough staff to watch everywhere all the time. A far easier method is just to use the added cost to offset the liability of damages.

View PostLord Warhammer, on 26 May 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

Ticketing the dance would cap attendance for the event which would allow it to be controlled better.. and the 3hr line outside would be gone. However if people can't get into the dance at night and still want to party, this does have the option of spawning an increase in room parties.

Unfortunately the comedians are probably right: "You can't fix stupid" and "You can't kill stupid"



An increase in room parties is probable, but a better scenario. Because any damages to the room are directly accountable to the people staying in the room, not Acen. And all of the freed up IRT staff could instead patrol the halls instead of doing line control. It's also less likely to result in very crazy behavior in a room with a few people, than being egged on in a giant crowd at a rave, etc. Maybe set up a security camera watching the fishbowl side at least of the hotel? That way we can pin stupid behavior on a specific room.

Even the vodka bottle breaking the Fishbowl glass technically probably isn't Acen's liability. But I assume we pay as a goodwill measure lest we lose the ability to come back to the Hyatt next year. Which would be a major disaster for the convention.

IMHO the dance and rave are ancillary perks to the convention. As our home page states "The Midwest Anime and Manga Convention" -- we should focus on the main reason for the convention. I'm not saying to totally eliminate them, but if we did get rid of the rave/dance entirely, that would go a long ways towards solving our night time programming issues as well. They may be "popular" -- but much like Adult Swim grew their audience away from anime by changing the type of programming they aired, Acen grows their audience towards a more problematic crowd by holding these events. And unfortunately at a certain point it IS better for the con overall to tamp down on them than let people run around ruining the reputation of the con.

Let me put it this way: Which is more important to you? Having a convention for anime/manga and other alt-culture hobbies? Or having us lose use of the Hyatt due to holding a dance/rave that draws in a bunch of delinquents that break stuff and get us kicked out? It would basically destroy Acen as we know it -- we would have to make drastic changes like capping attendance at a much lower level, or close earlier, etc.

This post has been edited by JediNight: 26 May 2011 - 11:36 AM


#43 User is offline   Menchi 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:35 AM

While on one level I agree with Kytsune (hey buddy!) I'd say my slightly biased perspective may actually bring a fresh viewpoint to this very narrow discussion:

Quote

banning alcohol from the convention


Now I *know* that there are people out there who can drink responsibly, socially, and have a good time doing so without harming others or property. Guests and staff drink socially at cons and interact with congoers at the bar and are awesome (I forget which guest it was, but one of them had posted on the forums on that they were very approachable and could be found at the bar). It's not DRINKING that causes these problems. I'm going to say what EVERYONE ELSE is thinking...

People who come to ACEN solely to party, drink, and do drugs ruin it for everyone.

And no, I'm NOT talking about people that don't care about anime and come for just the rave, that's a personal gripe regarding anime conventions in general, but I'm sure the people that do /that/ and stay straight edge or drink *responsibly* are still awesome people. It's the people (and I personally know of several "friends of friends of friends" that do this) that see ACen as a chance to meet up with people coming from around the US, a chance to do drugs in a low policed environment, and a chance to drink and do destructive things JUST AS KYTSUNE SAID because with 23,000 people, you could shatter class, break hotel fixtures, urinate on expensive carpet etc. without IRT or police catching your or being able to do anything about it. IRT has really been getting better at doing its job, but there just isn't enough manpower and these idiots knowingly take advantage of that situation.

The big question is how do you eliminate ACen attendees who are there just to party/drink etc.? I don't have the answer to this question but I'm SURE that figuring this out will be the key to reducing crap like this from happening.

#44 User is offline   Yukinari 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:47 AM

View PostMenchi, on 26 May 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:

While on one level I agree with Kytsune (hey buddy!) I'd say my slightly biased perspective may actually bring a fresh viewpoint to this very narrow discussion:



Now I *know* that there are people out there who can drink responsibly, socially, and have a good time doing so without harming others or property. Guests and staff drink socially at cons and interact with congoers at the bar and are awesome (I forget which guest it was, but one of them had posted on the forums on that they were very approachable and could be found at the bar). It's not DRINKING that causes these problems. I'm going to say what EVERYONE ELSE is thinking...

People who come to ACEN solely to party, drink, and do drugs ruin it for everyone.

And no, I'm NOT talking about people that don't care about anime and come for just the rave, that's a personal gripe regarding anime conventions in general, but I'm sure the people that do /that/ and stay straight edge or drink *responsibly* are still awesome people. It's the people (and I personally know of several "friends of friends of friends" that do this) that see ACen as a chance to meet up with people coming from around the US, a chance to do drugs in a low policed environment, and a chance to drink and do destructive things JUST AS KYTSUNE SAID because with 23,000 people, you could shatter class, break hotel fixtures, urinate on expensive carpet etc. without IRT or police catching your or being able to do anything about it. IRT has really been getting better at doing its job, but there just isn't enough manpower and these idiots knowingly take advantage of that situation.

The big question is how do you eliminate ACen attendees who are there just to party/drink etc.? I don't have the answer to this question but I'm SURE that figuring this out will be the key to reducing crap like this from happening.



no no no! you cannot eliminate them! there is no point in trying... instead you put them all in 1 place! as i stated before ACen need to arrange a hotel party block/floor that is low enough so stuff tossed out windows or off the inside bridges wont causes as much damage and we all would know were most of the drinkers are.
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#45 User is offline   Pashy-chan 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:01 PM

View PostJediNight, on 26 May 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

The dance/rave and related behavior is by far our biggest point of liability and a large drain on staff resources IMHO. Running the event causes damages basically every year. It's impossible to have enough staff to watch everywhere all the time. A far easier method is just to use the added cost to offset the liability of damages.




An increase in room parties is probable, but a better scenario. Because any damages to the room are directly accountable to the people staying in the room, not Acen. And all of the freed up IRT staff could instead patrol the halls instead of doing line control. It's also less likely to result in very crazy behavior in a room with a few people, than being egged on in a giant crowd at a rave, etc. Maybe set up a security camera watching the fishbowl side at least of the hotel? That way we can pin stupid behavior on a specific room.

Even the vodka bottle breaking the Fishbowl glass technically probably isn't Acen's liability. But I assume we pay as a goodwill measure lest we lose the ability to come back to the Hyatt next year. Which would be a major disaster for the convention.

IMHO the dance and rave are ancillary perks to the convention. As our home page states "The Midwest Anime and Manga Convention" -- we should focus on the main reason for the convention. I'm not saying to totally eliminate them, but if we did get rid of the rave/dance entirely, that would go a long ways towards solving our night time programming issues as well. They may be "popular" -- but much like Adult Swim grew their audience away from anime by changing the type of programming they aired, Acen grows their audience towards a more problematic crowd by holding these events. And unfortunately at a certain point it IS better for the con overall to tamp down on them than let people run around ruining the reputation of the con.

Let me put it this way: Which is more important to you? Having a convention for anime/manga and other alt-culture hobbies? Or having us lose use of the Hyatt due to holding a dance/rave that draws in a bunch of delinquents that break stuff and get us kicked out? It would basically destroy Acen as we know it -- we would have to make drastic changes like capping attendance at a much lower level, or close earlier, etc.

Honestly, I kind of feel like these kinds of points sheerly based on opinion, and I will admit that goes the same for my own. As someone who attends the Soap Bubble yearly, within the dance itself, things were rather calm and not as wild as portrayed. On the contrary, the line itself was the heart of most problems, with many people who were drunk, and going wild and out with no intention of actually getting into the rave itself. No matter what, ACen seems to have turned into a party hotspot, and you can't pit all of it onto the Soap Bubble, and do you honestly think with more room parties, the damages will stay limited to the rooms? Throughout the HYATT Saturday night (Or early Sunday morning), I saw people coming out half naked and drunk from everywhere, not simply the Soap Bubble. There were people literally pouring out of a room in the Executive Wing followed by an cloud of smoke that was clearly from weed, people casually asking each other for ecstasy near the Go rooms, and don't get me started on the man screaming about his b*ner wearing nothing but boxers near the game room.. Compaired to what I saw outside the ballroom that night, the rave was pretty suttle.. =.=

All and all, why some may argue that the rave brings the "wrong" type of attendees, I don't find it fair to group the entire population of con-goers into this category. Like stated before, as this is an underage rave, a large amount of the crowd within the rave itself is CLEARLY underage. Everyone there isn't getting intoxicated, and everyone who attends doesn't do so TO get intoxicated. Not only this, but the rave isn't the only thing that has caused ACen slowly to diverge from it's anime and manga roots. Call it the times, but the fandom has shifted significantly over the years, and we as a whole should all be willing to support it. To say that the dances alone will eventually destroy ACen is a step too far in my opinion..

While there are a number of delinquents who do attend it, no matter what, as the number of attendance grows so will the stupidity amongst our population...

This post has been edited by Pashy-chan: 26 May 2011 - 12:04 PM

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#46 User is offline   Audri 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:21 PM

Before I go into this let me say I have never attended the soap bubble nor will I ever attend a soap bubble. The Soap Bubble has been an aggreavation for me each of my three years of attendance just due to the madness it causes outside the con in lines of people that odds are will never make it to the event itself.

The events mentioned of people half naked in the game room or people pouring through the halls of the executive wing could easily be stopped if we didn't have to have IRT babysitting the children in the soap bubble or its lines.
Basically I think the con has grown to big for events such as this and really needs to refocus the man power and money else where.

Last time I checked ACEN was an anime and game convention. Even condidering the Vocaloids, I have to ask what does the Soap Bubble have to do with either of those things?? The con changes during Saturday night, things go on that really shouldn't happen in a public place. I know coming in from a panel I was "greeted" by a guy wearing nothing more then makeup and a thong.. Kinda coincidental that this stuff goes on only during the Soap Bubble...
2015: The search continues..
2014: Should have cosplayed
2013: Hayate Yagami - Magical Lyrical Nanoha Force
2012: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
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2011: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
2010: Eva-Beatrice - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
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#47 User is offline   Kasemei 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:26 PM

I just wanted to post something brief in here before I go back and read the entire thread. I've been reading a lot of the word "underage", and since we are talking about alcohol I assume we're meaning under the age of 21. I know Rosemont actually has a law that teenagers under the age of 18 (or 17) can't be out of their rooms without being accompanied by a guardian. At least, that was the law a few years back. A random suggestion I thought of is to make the rave 18+. Obviously there would still be a problem with drinkers between 18-21, but if people were obviously drunk (and underage) they would prolly not want to show their ID to be carded.
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#48 User is offline   Pashy-chan 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:39 PM

View PostAudri, on 26 May 2011 - 12:21 PM, said:

Before I go into this let me say I have never attended the soap bubble nor will I ever attend a soap bubble. The Soap Bubble has been an aggreavation for me each of my three years of attendance just due to the madness it causes outside the con in lines of people that odds are will never make it to the event itself.

The events mentioned of people half naked in the game room or people pouring through the halls of the executive wing could easily be stopped if we didn't have to have IRT babysitting the children in the soap bubble or its lines.
Basically I think the con has grown to big for events such as this and really needs to refocus the man power and money else where.

Last time I checked ACEN was an anime and game convention. Even condidering the Vocaloids, I have to ask what does the Soap Bubble have to do with either of those things?? The con changes during Saturday night, things go on that really shouldn't happen in a public place. I know coming in from a panel I was "greeted" by a guy wearing nothing more then makeup and a thong.. Kinda coincidental that this stuff goes on only during the Soap Bubble...


Then IRT would be patrolling and babysitting every room party, wouldn't they? I think that no matter what, more man power is needed, period. However, that can't be helped.. @_@ ACen is against sponorship after all.

xD Anywho, although ACEN is an anime and manga convention, by using that point as a valid argument, wouldn't that justify getting rid of all elements of the con which aren't anime and manga centralized? I feel like complaints like these go along with those who gripe about Disney cosplays or the Venture Bros. Panel.. Even the majority of guests this year weren't apart of the anime or manga industry, so should we no longer invite them? While this is an anime convention, ACen isn't simply about japanese art and media (which events other than the Soap Bubble have shown), and I don't know of a major anime-oriented convention yet that limits itself in such a manner. But anyway.. I'll end that there before I diverge any further from the topic at hand.. xD

This post has been edited by Pashy-chan: 26 May 2011 - 12:42 PM

ACen 2011: Cosplays have been determined-ish!!!!

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#49 User is offline   Yukinari 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:44 PM

i love con raves/dances but, and ill say it bluntly, i think one of the dances needs to be axed/removed/discontinued. this hurts to say because i go to both and stay until they end. this time were there is no dance could be used for new events or, hell even a formal dance.
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#50 User is offline   Audri 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:49 PM

I am one of those people who have issue with Venture Bros. panels and Disney cosplays. Now Ive come to terms that while I dont really like those things at an anime convention such goes life if thats what the attendees want such goes life, I dont have to attend the photoshoots or panels myself. With that being said none of those items cause close to the disruption that the Soap Bubble does. As has been said before this post the SoapBubble does bring in an element that really has no interest in anything that ACEN promotes. I think we can also agree that the SoapBubble is the biggest magnet for the crowd that is causing so much of the problems. With the soapbubble gone, it would remove ACEN's focus on "NightLife" and discourage many of the parties and craziness that the con is dealing with right now.e

@Yukinari: A formal dance might not be a bad idea. It doesn't generate the OMG Party craziness but still would be a rather fun get together. Heck I know I'd go out of my way to attend that since I loved the ones they did at Otakon when I used to go.

This post has been edited by Audri: 26 May 2011 - 12:53 PM

2015: The search continues..
2014: Should have cosplayed
2013: Hayate Yagami - Magical Lyrical Nanoha Force
2012: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
Ruko Yokune - Vippaloid
2011: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
2010: Eva-Beatrice - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
2009: First ACen - No cosplay

#51 User is offline   kahad 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:54 PM

When you get 23K+ people together, stupidity is bound to happen somewhere.

This post has been edited by kahad: 26 May 2011 - 12:55 PM

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#52 User is offline   Kasemei 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:01 PM

I know they used to have a Charity ball but I am no longer sure if it exists. Also, a lot of money is also spent on these raves for equipment and other necessities needed to make a rave run smoothly.

To be honest, now that people know the damage is going to cost 5 figures, I highly doubt that anyone will come up and say "Oh, btw, I did it let me pay for x0,000 dollars of damage".

Another solution, assuming that the person does not come forward, could be to remove the soapbubble for next year. The idea would be that removing the SoapBubble was the penalty for having the damage happen to the con. Thus, all money that would have gone to the SoapBubble could go to diffusing the costs of the damage/other departments. We could easily have other panels replace the space (assuming that panelists still want to return after the badge drama). Just a thought.
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Cosplays for 2011: Ciel Phantomhive Ballgown from Kuroshitsuji, Toph Bei Fong Fire Nation Disguise from Avatar: The Last Airbender, Revolutionary Girl Utena Schoolgirl outfit, and Meiling Hong from the Touhou Project.

#53 User is offline   Pashy-chan 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:03 PM

View PostAudri, on 26 May 2011 - 12:49 PM, said:

I am one of those people who have issue with Venture Bros. panels and Disney cosplays. Now Ive come to terms that while I dont really like those things at an anime convention such goes life if thats what the attendees want such goes life, I dont have to attend the photoshoots or panels myself. With that being said none of those items cause close to the disruption that the Soap Bubble does. As has been said before this post the SoapBubble does bring in an element that really has no interest in anything that ACEN promotes. I think we can also agree that the SoapBubble is the biggest magnet for the crowd that is causing so much of the problems. With the soapbubble gone, it would remove ACEN's focus on "NightLife" and discourage many of the parties and craziness that the con is dealing with right now.

Again, as someone who attends the rave, I don't believe the heart of the issue is the SoapBubble itself. However, I am only one person speaking in favor of some of the 7,500 that attended this year. Even so, I simply believe that you cannot say that 1/3 of the convention's population this year was apart of the madness.

Not only this, but interms of promoting the japanese market, each year the Bubble brings famous DJs from Japan itself. While this may not matter much to some, I know many others who go simply for a chance to hear some of their favorite DJs live.

All in all, I believe one of the best solutions for this problem was stated before. Having a price on the dances, for liability reasons, would essentially aid in paying back any damages caused. @.@ I'm sure those dying to go wouldn't mind paying $5 or $10 more...
ACen 2011: Cosplays have been determined-ish!!!!

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Female Wario ::: 10%
Ganguro Gal ::: 90%

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#54 User is offline   Washu Takahashi 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:06 PM

Wow. It's really sad that some stupid people have to go ruin it for everyone.

Well, here's my two cents on things that may or may not help. First, I agree with Pashy that the rave is NOT the only thing that leads to problems. With or without the rave, we'll have idiots who do stupid things. However, a lot of problems stem from the raves. My suggestion would be to decide how many people you're going to let in before the line even forms. As the line forms, give people a ticket with a number on it. This number serves as their place in line, so they don't even have to stay, eliminating the line issue. Also, maybe you could actually enforce that 30 minute line rule and refuse to let anyone line up/get tickets until 30 minutes beforehand. Anyone who is OBVIOUSLY drunk should NOT be given a ticket. And then after you handed out all the tickets for the limits, hand out another 200 or so in a different color. These would be people who could get in after people from the first group leave or if they just don't show up. (and people with tickets from the first group wouldn't have to be let in by number. They're all getting in so the number doesnt matter until the second color) Not sure how well that would work, but that's what I came up with.

As to throwing things off the balcony, I agree with trying to make them off-limits if possible.
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#55 User is offline   JediNight 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:07 PM

Except that in relative comparison, the dances are definitely a major outlier from the rest of the content at the convention. A lot of the video games are Japan-related. The tabletop gaming I suppose is not directly related, but is a hobby of many attendees and is harmless to run. At a certain point the cons outweigh the pros for an event. I also believe that a lot of the unruly room parties and behavior you were seeing could be related to the lines being too long for them to get into the dances, or being there a while then looking for room parties later on. It just draws that kind of element to the hotel itself. I've been going to Acen since 2000 and I can't say I remember seeing naked people or people in thongs running around or asking for drugs, etc. before the dances became popular.

Is it unfair to the undoubtedly vast majority that enjoy the dances normally? Yes. But there is still plenty of other events besides dances that are fun at Acen. And I'm sure we would come up with other fun events for main programming and the other programming rooms even if there weren't dances. We would also save a lot of money on paying the hotel staff to change over the rooms every night and the cleanup afterwards. I saw the rave room after it was over -- it was strewn with tons of garbage everywhere on the floor. And you can bet they don't just charge us $10/hr to have someone clean it up.. =\

Yeah I know I sound "Get off my lawn", but this is really a larger problem than you think. $10,000 goes a long way, and now that money is going to fix the Fishbowl dome. We already have a lot more things we would love to do, but the money isn't in the budget for. This certainly doesn't help.

Hence I feel ticketing the event and capping attendance is a good step to see about curbing these problems and we can go from there then.

Alternatively: Rent the Rosemont Theater or other auditorium and charge whatever it takes to cover the cost of the facilities. Then its away from the con proper and gives people less crowds.

Can anyone else comment on other cons with dances? I go to Otakon and know they have a dance, but I can't remember it being much of an issue. Mind you they close at midnight or so as well, and the dance is much smaller.

This post has been edited by JediNight: 26 May 2011 - 01:14 PM


#56 User is offline   P-Bear 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:53 PM

By this point, most of the posts seem to be repeating the same old sentiments, e.g. "make this a dry con," "get rid of the raves-- they have nothing to do with anime," "don't get rid of the raves, the draw in more people (and therefore more money) to the con," and other similar ideas about drastically changing the types of events offered and/or location of the convention.

sadly, the most accurate opinions posted in this thread are also the bleakest: that you can't fix stupid, and that no matter what the con organizers and IRT do, booze will get into the con (not to say that booze consumption is the root of all evil-- people consume it differently and with varying levels of responsibility). you can't please all of the otaku all of the time, and eliminating/not eliminating booze/certain events is going to leave a large portion of congoers dissatisfied.

what needs to be done, IMO, is to have an increase in the amount of security people watching the con, and a change in their operations/procedures. this is not to say that IRT is doing a poor job or acting inappropriately; i have heard TONS of accounts of IRT being great and helpful and accommodating, and i have also heard a handful of less-than-pleasant stories. furthermore, i will admit that i have no idea how the IRT are recruited, trained, or organized. i realize that there may not be enough money to bring more people on and, additionally, there may be no way for the con admins to control how IRT acts-- IRT people are only human, after all. what is possible, however, is to crack down on how different areas of the con are policed, and how misbehavior is punished. perhaps working closely with the rosemont police/hotel security will give IRT more authority and allow them to strike fear into the hearts of evildoers. as mentioned above, offering a finite amount of entrance tickets may reduce line congestion and allow IRT to focus their energy elsewhere. similarly, something as simple as roping off line areas may also cut down some of the craziness and all-over-the-place-ness of the lines. having an IRT team for each of the nearby, super-congested hotels might also help to control the madness in common areas outside of the main convention center area.

again, i know that money and bodies are limited and that all of these suggestions might have already been taken into consideration by IRT. as someone (maybe rondo?) said above, the onus is on each of us to help keep things in line. it's as simple as that. in a sense, everybody needs to be on IRT and work diligently to report crappy behavior. if all of us keep the hotel areas under control, then IRT will be free to monitor the panel/programming areas.

finally, how has hotel security factored in to all of this? did they appear when stuff started to get trashed, or do they look the other way when drunks are everywhere, stairwells are congested, etc?
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#57 User is offline   Kasemei 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 01:55 PM

I think something that has been emphasized a lot has been the 10,000 price tag. While people may not think that is a lot of dollar damage to a convention as big as ACen, the reality is that it is indeed a lot. 10,000 is also the lowest price tag in the 5 figure range. For all we know, the damage could be 15,000, 20,000, 50,000, etc.

To give a brief breakdown. Assuming the damage was 10,000 and you had x number of attendees paying the full at-con registration price of 55, you would need 182 people to equal that amount. While that doesn't seem like much in 23,000+ people, it is still a significant amount, especially since a lot of people also register early and only pay 30-40 for their badges.

10,000 can go a long way. A lot of people were complaining about reg line waits. One new, solid desktop can cost 300-500. To outfit registration with 10 new computers could cost around 3000-5000. Instead, we might have to wait for faster reg lines and other things because more money needs to be spent on damages to the convention. $5000 could pay for travel, hotel, food, and compensation expenses for some of the most sought after voice actors out there. Without that money, we might have to sacrifice bigger, or even smaller artists. We may not be able to get the fun and amazing artists we did in previous years from Japan or even from the US, and that takes away from the con as a whole.

I think a really big key factor is really to let the community know how much these kind of things really affect the con as well.
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Cosplays for 2011: Ciel Phantomhive Ballgown from Kuroshitsuji, Toph Bei Fong Fire Nation Disguise from Avatar: The Last Airbender, Revolutionary Girl Utena Schoolgirl outfit, and Meiling Hong from the Touhou Project.

#58 User is offline   Audri 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:00 PM

Your assuming people care...
2015: The search continues..
2014: Should have cosplayed
2013: Hayate Yagami - Magical Lyrical Nanoha Force
2012: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
Ruko Yokune - Vippaloid
2011: Featherine Augustus Aurora - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
2010: Eva-Beatrice - Umineko No Naku Koro Ni
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#59 User is offline   Kasemei 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:05 PM

I would hope that people who go to ACen that want to see their favorite VA's and other things would care and help take measures to ensure that what they want at a con will happen, though I can also see how that's wishful thinking.
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Cosplays for 2011: Ciel Phantomhive Ballgown from Kuroshitsuji, Toph Bei Fong Fire Nation Disguise from Avatar: The Last Airbender, Revolutionary Girl Utena Schoolgirl outfit, and Meiling Hong from the Touhou Project.

#60 User is offline   Unka Josh 

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:13 PM

View PostChristy, on 26 May 2011 - 08:25 AM, said:

I suspect that's probably why the con suite went the way of the Dodo - I'd poked my head in there towards the end of con once while they still had it and it was disgusting. The whole place was trashed - like sombody decided to have the world's biggest food fight and follow it up with a rave just to grind everything into the carpet.



Well, yes, actually. That is precisely what happened-- there was too much damage, too much wasted food, too much of a mess, and the hotel banned it.
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