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Why can't we have nice things?

#121 User is offline   Christy 

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:00 AM

View PostP-Bear, on 26 May 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

srsly though, im not sure if having a party floor will fix anything. if YOU were a troublemaker, and YOU were given the choice of continuing to have crazy bottle-whipping drug parties in secret OR voluntarily signing up to be in the heavily-monitored designated party area, what would you do?


I'd sign up for the party area so my party could be with the other parties, thus creating one big MASSIVE party. Because, let's be real here, when it comes to parting, the general concensus is - the more, the merrier. :D

As somebody who is also a long time Acen vet - IE I've been here since year one - I would also like to add the following on room parties vs. the Rave.

As soon as the Rave started, it seemed to me that room parties got tamer and less numerous. Tales from my friends pre-Rave about the room parties they attened weren't that cool. Underage girls soliciting adult men, people not carding the booze, you couldn't sleep due to the noise, etc. The con would be littered with home made flyers for room parties advertising all sorts of entertainments and themes. When they started the rave, this appeared to go down. The hotel, in the room areas appear to be much quieter over all. And situations appear to more be just one or two big things that happen (like the shopping cart and window things) instead of "Did you hear about x that happened in party 1 and y that happened at party 2 and z that happened during party 3."

Party people are going to come for the party, no matter what. And they don't come thinking "Dude, my goal for the weekend is to totally break out a window of the hotel." They come thinking "I'm going to drink, get laid and have a great time." Unfortunately, many people don't learn self control, limits and how to have fun without acting stupid. Having a rave or dance or some sort of late night event that allows people to have fun in a monitored situation allows the con staff and other responsible individuals to watch those who can't seem to control themselves.

By isolating room parties to a single, seperate, physical block you can then monitor the parties for trouble more easily, select room types that are better able to handle what's going to be done in them (ie - no balconies) AND give the IRT authority to calm roudier rooms by essentially telling them "Sorry, you need to be on the party block if you're going to make this much noise. Now settle down or we're pulling your badge." Rules do more than just deter, they also give those in charge of enforcement the authority to act.

The main thing that we as con-goers can do to ensure that Anime Central continues and is welcome in Rosemont is to be community minded and stop vandalism/irresponsable behavior as we see it and to report any incidents we see of people damaging the con. These individuals, if caught, will probably not be allowed back to Anime Central and it's important that bad seeds are prevented from coming back.

#122 User is offline   rondo 

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:23 AM

View PostChristy, on 27 May 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'd sign up for the party area so my party could be with the other parties, thus creating one big MASSIVE party. Because, let's be real here, when it comes to parting, the general concensus is - the more, the merrier. :D

As somebody who is also a long time Acen vet - IE I've been here since year one - I would also like to add the following on room parties vs. the Rave.

As soon as the Rave started, it seemed to me that room parties got tamer and less numerous. Tales from my friends pre-Rave about the room parties they attened weren't that cool. Underage girls soliciting adult men, people not carding the booze, you couldn't sleep due to the noise, etc. The con would be littered with home made flyers for room parties advertising all sorts of entertainments and themes. When they started the rave, this appeared to go down. The hotel, in the room areas appear to be much quieter over all. And situations appear to more be just one or two big things that happen (like the shopping cart and window things) instead of "Did you hear about x that happened in party 1 and y that happened at party 2 and z that happened during party 3."

Party people are going to come for the party, no matter what. And they don't come thinking "Dude, my goal for the weekend is to totally break out a window of the hotel." They come thinking "I'm going to drink, get laid and have a great time." Unfortunately, many people don't learn self control, limits and how to have fun without acting stupid. Having a rave or dance or some sort of late night event that allows people to have fun in a monitored situation allows the con staff and other responsible individuals to watch those who can't seem to control themselves.

By isolating room parties to a single, seperate, physical block you can then monitor the parties for trouble more easily, select room types that are better able to handle what's going to be done in them (ie - no balconies) AND give the IRT authority to calm roudier rooms by essentially telling them "Sorry, you need to be on the party block if you're going to make this much noise. Now settle down or we're pulling your badge." Rules do more than just deter, they also give those in charge of enforcement the authority to act.

The main thing that we as con-goers can do to ensure that Anime Central continues and is welcome in Rosemont is to be community minded and stop vandalism/irresponsable behavior as we see it and to report any incidents we see of people damaging the con. These individuals, if caught, will probably not be allowed back to Anime Central and it's important that bad seeds are prevented from coming back.



Didn't they used to have a general "party block" before? I may be thinking a bit back on that one. And I'd have to agree, our room at the Hyatt has been quiet for the past few years.

#123 User is offline   sisterdiscord 

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:50 AM

I started this post-monster, and I'd like to put an end to it, because at this point we're going nowhere constructive.

I've tried to reach out via PM/email to a couple of you about what you saw, but it isn't working, so..if you've got something to share about the situation feel free to email rosa.halcomb (at) acen.org.

Re: drug dogs. Because of the nature of what they're trained to do, it isn't 100% a good idea to have them around such large, tight crowds and chaos, so this is a no-go. This is according to my neighbor who is the two-legged half of a canine team.

Re: the dances - while not 100% anime related, they are a part of what makes our show unique, and a part of our convention's footprint. We're not going to do something drastic like getting rid of them.

Re: party con - I've been chair for the two and a half years leading up to now, and trust me when I say we don't intend to have that reputation. As a realist, I know it's going to be there, because we're the biggest hotel-primary anime con still around. Anime Expo and Otakon are both primarily convention center based nowadays, while we still mainly 'live' in our Hyatt, which means there's a very lively after-hours event culture.

We put on a three day cartoon and culture festival for kids of any age. Don't get me wrong- parties are going to happen and we know that, but we can't be everywhere at all times - no amount of IRT can accomplish that. We rely on everyone to be our eyes and ears. We'll work on getting the IRT number more widely published, but ultimately we need all of you, when you see something wrong, to tell someone. For those of you who called about the party upstairs--thank you, it was reported, and eventually broken up. And yes, we're reasonably sure we know who threw the bottle, but no one has stepped forward to say "I saw them drop the bottle and it broke a piece out of the dome." and without that, regardless of the circumstantial stuff, ACen is on the hook for the damage.

Again, I didn't mean this to turn into an angry, finger-pointing thread, and you've given some pretty good suggestions for how we can do better. We'll be talking about hotel damage during opening, and possibly in the program guide, and we'll do better at getting attention to the IRT number and problem reporting procedures. We may do some special signage and fliers for rooms on the dome side, and in the tower in general, because of the potential danger of dropping things from the balconies. I'll talk to the hotel about locking the balconies, but I am unsure whether it is possible. We'll find out.
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#124 User is offline   Kakashi Hatake 

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:03 AM

every year something happen and people wounder why the Hytte does not want party's there when Dum Drunk people do stupid stuff like this every year

#125 User is offline   gc!? 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:46 AM

Just to chime in here, though it was my first Acen this year and didn't go to the rave: I think the age 18+ badges w/ ID are the best idea for the rave, as well as making it end a bit earlier (someone gave an example of Otakon and how it seems to run smoother). In the long run this may not solve much, but it's at least a way to monitor things while not completely compromising the event. Will it require more effort? Absolutely, and it should be that way if the rave is a huge portion of the con. Someone also mentioned police on standby, and that might help if it's at all plausible (people tend to be more civil when there's cops nearby).

Anyway, that's all in case the rave has anything to do with these incidents happening. I'm not going to point fingers since I don't know.

I also don't know if room parties and people bringing alcohol/drugs/etc have any reasonable solution.
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#126 User is offline   Kasin 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 03:08 PM

to me...drugs are a completely different thing from alcohol. it's simply breaking the law no matter what age you are. unfortunately, the only way to find them would probably be dogs, or bag checks, which can't happen.

how come making the rave shorter would help?
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#127 User is offline   tfcreate 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:13 PM

View PostKasin, on 28 May 2011 - 03:08 PM, said:

to me...drugs are a completely different thing from alcohol. it's simply breaking the law no matter what age you are. unfortunately, the only way to find them would probably be dogs, or bag checks, which can't happen.

how come making the rave shorter would help?


The drug issue is apparently not an issue. Those pretending to argue a noble cause who in fact are trying to keep their stashes from being found can breathe a sigh of relief. You can keep using/selling your blow and weed and the con will look the other way.

Shortening the rave may not be the issue. They just need more room.

And to the the poster who almost had their head split open by a bottle thrown from a balcony, probably your only protection is to pick another con (there are plenty non-party ones popping up in the area now and during warm weather.) or buy a good helmet.

This post has been edited by tfcreate: 28 May 2011 - 08:16 PM

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#128 User is offline   Rakuen 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:27 PM

View Posttfcreate, on 28 May 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

Snip

If you act like a manpart, it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, you're still a manpart.

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This post has been edited by Rakuen: 28 May 2011 - 09:21 PM

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#129 User is offline   Scott 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:57 PM

View PostRakuen, on 28 May 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

If you act like a manpart, it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, you're still a manpart.
In other news, this filter amuses me.


Do you have any suggestions to fix the five-figure damage incident issue?

Anyways, I think the frustration stems from postings like this where help is asked for, but nothing actually changes to fix the problem. Making it so that not even one of 23,000+ people does something dangerous or stupid is a big task. Nothing is impossible and I think the issue can be fixed, but I think some of us feel that more drastic measures are necessary than say a message spoken at the opening ceremony. I never make it to that event and I'm sure a lot of other attendees don't either, but I digress as that is just an example of a bandaid where stitches are needed.

#130 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:23 PM

I hope whoever threw that bottle is caught and permanently banned from the con, as all serious troublemakers should be. The tales of underage drinking, drug use, and sex I'm hearing are just disgusting. Those people are the pigs of society, really.

Unfortunately I just don't know how stupidity like this can be "fixed."

This post has been edited by Kokoro: 28 May 2011 - 09:27 PM

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#131 User is offline   Rakuen 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:29 PM

View PostScott, on 28 May 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

Do you have any suggestions to fix the five-figure damage incident issue?

I was specifically referring to the post above mine, but nevertheless I'll edit it to make that more apparent.

As for a true solution to the problem, I've got none. People are stupid, they will always be stupid, and therefore the only thing you can do is ensure the damages caused by their stupidity is minimized. That's especially true as attendance numbers continue to rise. From a financial standpoint, the proper course is for the convention take out insurance, which would have kept the broken out window that spawned this thread from being a monetary burden. From a safety standpoint, more vigilance and better training would be in order, as well as ensuring that all of IRT can perform under of pressure effectively and with a consistent degree of professionalism. From a personal standpoint, every attendee is responsible in one way or another for keeping their fellow congoers safe, so if you see something wrong, tell someone in charge. And by that I mean AT the con, because complaining about it on the forums after the fact is mostly useless.

Really, all that I've said here should be common sense, more or less. So how about we quit beating a dead horse and pointing fingers and do it, mkay?


EDIT: My cousin has rather humorously pointed out the only way to guarantee a fix is to ban all congoers from Acen next year.

This post has been edited by Rakuen: 28 May 2011 - 09:41 PM

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#132 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:42 PM

This was my first year at Acen. Biggest impression? TOTAL CHAOS. No staff/IRT members seemed to know what was going on (or cared), blah blee blah...I've said this enough times in other threads. My point is, it seems like Acen has gotten too big and needs a bit of a tune-up. Maybe the non-profit status just isn't going to work anymore. Bottom line is, something needs to change. And it's up to the people running this baby to figure out what kind of tweaks are needed. Hopefully these tweaks will address issues from organization to things like how to manage effing stupid congoers. There is no "cure" for the latter problem. Just "treatments." But you can't let the problem grow.
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#133 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:09 PM

View PostKokoro, on 28 May 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

This was my first year at Acen. Biggest impression? TOTAL CHAOS. No staff/IRT members seemed to know what was going on (or cared), blah blee blah...I've said this enough times in other threads. My point is, it seems like Acen has gotten too big and needs a bit of a tune-up. Maybe the non-profit status just isn't going to work anymore. Bottom line is, something needs to change. And it's up to the people running this baby to figure out what kind of tweaks are needed. Hopefully these tweaks will address issues from organization to things like how to manage effing stupid congoers. There is no "cure" for the latter problem. Just "treatments." But you can't let the problem grow.


NOrmally they are not this disorganized. Year before they ran things pretty nicely, I think the added hotel changed things a lot and people didn't show up for their shifts. Next year will probably run smoother. I think the best way to help them out is if people did their part to police themselves and others.
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#134 User is offline   Lucien 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:16 PM

The best suggestion I can come up with are cameras that (at least) are put up to monitor the balconies during those later hours when people think its a good idea to take their party to the balconies and beyond. Granted, people would complain about some apparent infringement of privacy, but thats what screens are for. And besides, people can be fully informed ahead of time in registration that there will be balcony monitoring to first and foremost discourage reckless abandonment of sharp and heavy items, and other forms of dangerous behavior around the balcony area. Individuals would be held fully accountable and prosecuted for the damages they cause. This is definitely an issue that needs to get worked out with the Hyatt Management. But in my opinion, camera monitoring the balcony areas would be a safe alternative, and help to discourage people from taking advantage of hotel hospitality.

#135 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:32 PM

View PostDark Spellmaster, on 28 May 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

NOrmally they are not this disorganized. Year before they ran things pretty nicely, I think the added hotel changed things a lot and people didn't show up for their shifts. Next year will probably run smoother. I think the best way to help them out is if people did their part to police themselves and others.


Really? Because most of the people I talked to in line all pretty much had their own horror stories to tell, and the phrases "Acen is always this bad/like this/nothing ever changes/etc etc" kept coming up. We frequently got on this topic while waiting in line(s) because generally something about the line had been screwed up - there were multiple lines, etc, and people were angry and veeeery eager to rant.

Unfortunately you can't count on stupid people to police THEMSELVES, so that would be a task for the ones with a few brain cells still left up there. And I find that many people just don't care enough to come forward and make an effort.
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#136 User is offline   Scott 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:40 PM

View PostKokoro, on 28 May 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

Unfortunately you can't count on stupid people to police THEMSELVES, so that would be a task for the ones with a few brain cells still left up there. And I find that many people just don't care enough to come forward and make an effort.


Exactly...

#137 User is offline   Rakuen 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:40 PM

Well, Acen does change frequently. I've talked about this a bit in another thread, but they change so much that when something gets fixed, something else breaks to counterbalance. The key to progress is slow and systematic changes with as much testing as possible. Since they can't exactly have a bunch of "test" cons, the next best thing is for them to ask for feedback and for us to involve ourselves in that feedback process. It's a two way street. Now, I don't have a ton of time to be checking these forums year round, and I imagine a lot of other people are the same way. Maybe a voluntary e-mail list for requesting feedback would be a good idea?
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#138 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:46 PM

View PostScott, on 28 May 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Exactly...


The problem is, there's nothing in it for them except more hassle. Any decent person would want to do the right thing, but one can't pretend the world is made up of decent human beings. They're lazy, selfish, etc... Perhaps if Acen offered something for people who come forward with information... A badge discount, whatever. It sucks that you have to essentially "buy" good behavior, but hey, that's reality.

I really think Acen should make another post here in the forum, or maybe even put a notice on the website's front page, mentioning this incident and how much it will cost Acen (thus detracting from funds for guests, etc), and that if anyone can provide reliable information on the incident/who the perp might be, they will be given __insert bribe here__.

This post has been edited by Kokoro: 28 May 2011 - 11:01 PM

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#139 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:27 PM

View PostKokoro, on 28 May 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

Really? Because most of the people I talked to in line all pretty much had their own horror stories to tell, and the phrases "Acen is always this bad/like this/nothing ever changes/etc etc" kept coming up. We frequently got on this topic while waiting in line(s) because generally something about the line had been screwed up - there were multiple lines, etc, and people were angry and veeeery eager to rant.

Unfortunately you can't count on stupid people to police THEMSELVES, so that would be a task for the ones with a few brain cells still left up there. And I find that many people just don't care enough to come forward and make an effort.


Of the four, now going on fifth, years of attending I honestly have never had problems with anyone at Acen, save for the showers at the Haytt and some drama with friends. Unfortuantely with lines this always comes up. It's not just here either, I have friends that have gone to wizard world and have horror stories about there as well as Comic con and other conventions. People naturally like to rant about the bad and not focus on the good. There have been awesome factors about Acen and I'm sure that if people weren't in a line you could probably get them to talk about the cool stuff that has been there too.

People are afraid of paying and also afraid of looking uncool and trouble makers.
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#140 User is offline   Dark Spellmaster 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:30 PM

View PostRakuen, on 28 May 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Well, Acen does change frequently. I've talked about this a bit in another thread, but they change so much that when something gets fixed, something else breaks to counterbalance. The key to progress is slow and systematic changes with as much testing as possible. Since they can't exactly have a bunch of "test" cons, the next best thing is for them to ask for feedback and for us to involve ourselves in that feedback process. It's a two way street. Now, I don't have a ton of time to be checking these forums year round, and I imagine a lot of other people are the same way. Maybe a voluntary e-mail list for requesting feedback would be a good idea?


I actually like this idea. It makes a lot of sense.
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#141 User is offline   Jeff 

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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:54 PM

I blame the rave for the influx of misbehavior~
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#142 User is offline   tatsumakichan 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:06 AM

What time did it happened? I didn't hear about the glass bottle/fish bowl window incident until now.

I attended 2 room party (on same night, on the same floor in the balcony-area of Hyatt) and aside from some personal issues (drunk people inviting random strangers to the room amongst other things) there wasn't any destructive problems. Some time in between when I left the party to go change in my own room at the exclusive(?) wing and then back, the room party ended because there was a rumor(?) that the IRT/Police are checking ID on the floors below. As it turns out, many of the people who were kicked out from the previous party moved a couple doors down to another party hosted by different people. But even in that party people were more cautious because of the ID check warning. From the limited time I was there, people seem responsible enough not to break things because they didn't want to get kicked out from the con and party attendees had to pay in order to get drinks. And when I went to retire to my room, there were IRT people on the floor, which probably help eliminate some of the craziness. (I also found out the next day that there were several more parties happening on that particular floor.) I did hear that the party came back once the rave ended/when the ID-scare died.

The line for the Soap Bubble was intimidating. It double in length in less than half an hour. Although I have only attended SB once (last year and an idiot swinging glow sticks and another idiot with light sabers hit me), I don't think it should be eliminated since people in the rave are less likely to cause damage to the hotel via glass-tossing. People who aren't able to attend the rave are probably the ones stumbling around the hotel looking for parties and things to wreck because they can exert their energy to something else like dancing (or swinging glow-sticks like a clown on acid). Also, as someone has mention before, ACen is growing bigger and bigger, maybe it a better idea to split the rave in two, rather than eliminating it.

Maybe you should look into having a rave/dance party for minors that starts early and ends early and another rave for 18+. One of the rave can take place in one of the other hotels so it won't congest the main hotel. Aside from the line, there was also 2-way traffic happening and it was a pain trying to stay on the sidewalk. And it may be easier for staff to keep track of people that way. There are many decent people who would attend the con just to go to the rave to dance, meet their favorite DJ, etc. It's not really fair for them. Party-goers are going to attend ACen regardless of rave or not. It better that they have something to do rather than damaging hotel properties.

Also, it would be great if there were more ID-check scares. Less drunk minors running around.
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#143 User is offline   linlindesu 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:10 AM

View PostJeff, on 28 May 2011 - 11:54 PM, said:

I blame the rave for the influx of misbehavior~

*please see last 5 pages of back and forth bantering on this matter*

I'm just curious, what sort of training does IRT / staff go through ? ( more so IRT as staff is a bit more department dependent )
I understand being understaffed is also a major issue but I'm just wondering if IRT would even know how to handle the situation like the dome cracking and such if they saw it mid occurrence.
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#144 User is offline   tatsumakichan 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:12 AM

Oh yea, next ACen is in the last week of April, when the weather is effing cold (and possibly snowing) in Chicagoland and many people are studying/taking their finals. Maybe there's going to be less destruction? And perhaps a shorter line for the rave since it would be too friggn' cold to be scantily clad outside. But then again, more people would be house indoors so...
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#145 User is offline   P-Bear 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:32 AM

as a counterpoint to the "alcohol-drinkers are the pigs of society" platform, i'd like to suggest that maybe raves are a dandy way to sober people up: 4 hours of non-stop dancing/sweating is a prime way to burn off whatever junk has gone into one's body. perhaps the solution, if anything, is to add MORE dances-- hold a tamer, all-ages dance in one area concurrent with the out-of-control one in order to appease everyone. offering multiple venues may also result in the reduction of line craziness too




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#146 User is offline   Lady Leopardess 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 11:36 AM

I've only read up to page 3 , and I didn't see anyone suggest this.
What if you make it like college.(where everyone in the general area gets charged) It seems as though most instances of destruction people know what floor the object or damage came from. And usually what side of the building. That way you can probably narrow it down to ten rooms or less. Charge all those rooms a fine ( or a portion of the damages) for the act unless someone rats out the one person (or room) that did it) . That way it will encourage people to rat out people and it will discourage people from allowing other people to be stupid.

This post has been edited by Lady Leopardess: 29 May 2011 - 02:59 PM

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#147 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 11:52 AM

View PostP-Bear, on 29 May 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

as a counterpoint to the "alcohol-drinkers are the pigs of society" platform, i'd like to suggest that maybe raves are a dandy way to sober people up: 4 hours of non-stop dancing/sweating is a prime way to burn off whatever junk has gone into one's body. perhaps the solution, if anything, is to add MORE dances-- hold a tamer, all-ages dance in one area concurrent with the out-of-control one in order to appease everyone. offering multiple venues may also result in the reduction of line craziness too



View PostKokoro, on 28 May 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

The tales of underage drinking, drug use, and sex I'm hearing are just disgusting. Those people are the pigs of society, really.


Pretty sure no one said that ALCOHOL-DRINKERS in general (of age drinkers, drinkers who can handle their alcohol, etc) are pigs. Read more carefully.
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#148 User is offline   Smokey 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:05 PM

The real problem is that there are way too many people there that just aren't mature enough to be out of their parent's supervision for a weekend. I blame the parents who allow their kids to go traveling alone without first teaching them how to conduct themselves in a public setting.
Maybe we should start requiring minors to be accompanied by an adult.
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#149 User is offline   Kokoro 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 12:37 PM

Oh man Smokey, SO TRUE. Personally I can't believe how some young girls act while at cons. I can't imagine their parents know what they're doing, or how they're dressed. And there are plenty of guys out there who LOVE IT and take full advantage of the situation. Some people just act like idiots - or total creepers - at cons. They really can bring the worst out in some people.

I honestly don't understand how some outfits I see are allowed at Acen. I mean, at one point it's like, why bother wearing those few scraps of cloth anyway? Just run around naked for God's sake. <_<

People just let loose too much and start engaging in really stupid and destructive behavior.
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#150 User is offline   The Fujoshi 

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 01:51 PM

View PostKokoro, on 29 May 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

Oh man Smokey, SO TRUE. Personally I can't believe how some young girls act while at cons. I can't imagine their parents know what they're doing, or how they're dressed. And there are plenty of guys out there who LOVE IT and take full advantage of the situation. Some people just act like idiots - or total creepers - at cons. They really can bring the worst out in some people.

I honestly don't understand how some outfits I see are allowed at Acen. I mean, at one point it's like, why bother wearing those few scraps of cloth anyway? Just run around naked for God's sake. <_<

People just let loose too much and start engaging in really stupid and destructive behavior.


That's with any age but I see a lot of younger people at Acen doing it more.

Wondering what can we do about things like this? Cleaning costs is part of the damage costs isn't it? I heard some unsavory things about the washroom near the rave and the floor inside....

This post has been edited by The Fujoshi: 29 May 2011 - 01:55 PM

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