[Unka Josh]

Kokoro, on 31 May 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

You're assuming that every underage person has an of age friend who's willing to swap badges with them. What if they both want to get into an age restricted event? Then they couldn't swap.

No, I'm not assuming this at all.

What I'm assuming is that some underaged congoers will find someone to do a badge-swap with them. It only takes one, really, and then we're violating the law, and opening ourselves up to prosecution and lawsuits.

It doesn't take every underaged congoer to make trouble for us, after all, if we don't follow the law. And if we're already following the law and checking IDs, then what's the point of having badges that show us if you're a minor?

[KnitChick]

msd121, on 30 May 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

With regards to the identification of fake IDs, the Illinois Secretary of State Police offer a course (to my knowledge, free of charge) called "Operation Straight ID". Provided that you have enough people (at least 10), they will come to your location and give the 90 minute presentation. Even though it is mostly targeted at alcohol-serving establishments, I don't see why they would have a problem giving the class for IRT and related staff members.

I never knew that. That's actually a pretty good idea

Kokoro, on 30 May 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

The first point people already touched upon and acknowledged that it could/would happen. No plan is 100% foolproof. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be put into place.

As for your second point...wouldn't someone's face make it clear even without a color-coded badge that they're, I dunno...jail bait? Young people often...look...young.

Appearances can be deceiving. I'm 31, I'll be 32 in November, and people still think I'm in my early 20s. I've *just* started to not get carded as much. And a couple of years ago I got a drink on my birthday and the lady carded me and was shocked when she saw my ID (I was turning 27, she thought I was 19). So no, can't just go by appearances

[davebb]

KnitChick, on 31 May 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Appearances can be deceiving. I'm 31, I'll be 32 in November, and people still think I'm in my early 20s. I've *just* started to not get carded as much. And a couple of years ago I got a drink on my birthday and the lady carded me and was shocked when she saw my ID (I was turning 27, she thought I was 19). So no, can't just go by appearances

I can second that. When I was in high school, one of the students in one of my classes looked like he was like 32 because he had all the facial hair and was taller and such. And on the counterpoint, I was just working this weekend doing ID checking at the beer tents for IrishFest. I carded a few females who looked like their mid 20s and had to really look at every part of the ID because the ID said they were born in 1967!!! Even quizzing them about aspects of the card, like which DMV their license was issued, the birthdate, and other contents on the card, verifying the DL# matches up with the birth year, date, and gender (yes on the IL license all that is coded within the DL# and I can quickly figure that out in my head by just looking at the number).

Looks can be very deceiving, and I was dealing with a lot of Irish out there and they are hard to tell in the first place. Now asians are even harder to figure out age a lot of the time.. Then you ahve everyone else, depending on how well they took care of themselves or did not will alter their appearance to you.

[Kokoro]

Unka Josh, on 31 May 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

No, I'm not assuming this at all.

What I'm assuming is that some underaged congoers will find someone to do a badge-swap with them. It only takes one, really, and then we're violating the law, and opening ourselves up to prosecution and lawsuits.

It doesn't take every underaged congoer to make trouble for us, after all, if we don't follow the law. And if we're already following the law and checking IDs, then what's the point of having badges that show us if you're a minor?

Please to be reading my posts more carefully, in which I state you ask for ID at age-restricted events (hentai screenings, etc) to check against their badge. If they're found with a fake badge, they lose that badge, and can either leave the con or pay for another badge. Also, you're probably already letting underage people into certain events, y'know. The IRT that was supposed to be checking badges at the age-restricted panel I went to wasn't actually looking at the cards people were told to have ready - she was staring at the hallway around her, never even looked anywhere near the driver's license I tried holding up for her. The guys in front of me didn't have any ID and they walked in just fine. So...yeah.

Also, FAKE IDS. They exist. I doubt many IRT could identify a fake ID quickly as someone waved it in their face. However, hopefully those in charge of giving everyone the proper color badge would have a bit of knowledge about fake IDs (perhaps they could take the police course someone mentioned) and would have more than a few seconds to look the IDs over. As for how this would work for online preregistration, I have had to scan my ID before and submit it online. There could be a spot on the preregistration form for uploading a scanned image of a drivers license, etc.

The color coded badges would make it more difficult for minors to stay up past curfew/sneak into underage events, as they would need both the right color badge and valid ID on their person at all times. And the consequences of getting caught (which again, I would suggest be their badge getting taken away) would be higher, and thus act as a deterrent.

[Unka Josh]

Kokoro, on 01 June 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

Please to be reading my posts more carefully, in which I state you ask for ID at age-restricted events (hentai screenings, etc) to check against their badge. If they're found with a fake badge, they lose that badge, and can either leave the con or pay for another badge. Also, you're probably already letting underage people into certain events, y'know. The IRT that was supposed to be checking badges at the age-restricted panel I went to wasn't actually looking at the cards people were told to have ready - she was staring at the hallway around her, never even looked anywhere near the driver's license I tried holding up for her. The guys in front of me didn't have any ID and they walked in just fine. So...yeah.

Also, FAKE IDS. They exist. I doubt many IRT could identify a fake ID quickly as someone waved it in their face. However, hopefully those in charge of giving everyone the proper color badge would have a bit of knowledge about fake IDs (perhaps they could take the police course someone mentioned) and would have more than a few seconds to look the IDs over. As for how this would work for online preregistration, I have had to scan my ID before and submit it online. There could be a spot on the preregistration form for uploading a scanned image of a drivers license, etc.

The color coded badges would make it more difficult for minors to stay up past curfew/sneak into underage events, as they would need both the right color badge and valid ID on their person at all times. And the consequences of getting caught (which again, I would suggest be their badge getting taken away) would be higher, and thus act as a deterrent.

...I can't speak for IRT, but my staff does examine badges carefully. Took me a bit to find the DOB on some out-of-state (or, in several cases, out-of-country) IDs, but I looked. (We also spotted someone with a fake ID, but that's another story that I can't really go into.)

As for using the badge as a supplement... Hm. Something to think about. My concern would be that people would assume that a badge was a substitute for an ID, which is something that has been proposed before, and that we'd have arguments with congoers about that.

Still, it's food for thought.

[msd121]

So, from my understanding... we've come to the following conclusions (correct me if i'm wrong)

Color coding badges for age would result in the following:
Pros:
1. quick, at-a-glance knowledge of a person's approximate age
2. knowledge of how old another person is on the dance floor
3. possible supplement for ID

Cons:
1. Badges can be easily used by other people, and would allow people to 'fake' their age.
2. Though I've never been to the dances, whenever I've peeked in from out on the street, it looks awfully dark in there. Would you really be able to discern color using just those flashing lights and glow-sticks?
3. Arguments with people who mistakenly believe that the color-coding is being used as a replacement for ID checks
4. Could make it easier for people that target children

Overall, I'm thinking that color-coding badges probably isn't worth it. They aren't nearly as secure as state-issued ID cards. Additionally, possessing a fake or fraudulent driver's license or state ID is a crime; the police will arrest you for that. Possessing a fake or 'borrowed' ACEN badge... well, it might be a crime... but not nearly as severe. People will be much more likely to try modifying or borrowing a badge than they are to purchase a reasonably believable fake ID. These negatives, in my opinion, make color coded badges a flawed from of supplemental ID. State governments can afford to incorporate much better security features than ACEN can.

With regards to people checking ID's, like i suggested - training. You'll either have to train them to recognize how people might modify their badge (to change its color), or how to read that little tiny printing on the badge with the owner's name (so they can compare it with the photo ID they provide), or train them to recognize fake photo ID's. Chances are, checking one ID card will take less time than checking an ID against a badge - even when you account for them properly checking the photo ID (personally handling the card -don't just let them 'flash' it, matching the photo on the card with person presenting it, checking DOB, then checking for authenticity).

From what I observed (which may very well be wrong) one of the problems i noticed with 18+ panel programming was that previous panels would run over, so ID checkers would be rushed to let the line in so that the panels wouldn't lose much time. This would be relatively easy to fix - you make sure that panels end on time - five or ten minutes before the next panel starts, and that people leave in a quick, orderly fashion. That way staff has plenty of time to make check IDs as people enter.

Granted, you aren't running a bar, so your procedure doesn't need to be quite so stringent, but you can at least strive for a certain amount of perfection.

[Steam_Loli216]

As for ages and looks, I'm going to be 19 and I get mistaken for a lot older and I think checking IDs is a must. (a guy once tried to buy me a drink last year when I was out with my galfriends)

As for the groping, I wouldn't have reported him.

I would have punched his d*** off THEN reported him.

[S1NN3R]

Kokoro, on 01 June 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

The color coded badges would make it more difficult for minors to stay up past curfew/sneak into underage events, as they would need both the right color badge and valid ID on their person at all times. And the consequences of getting caught (which again, I would suggest be their badge getting taken away) would be higher, and thus act as a deterrent.

Validation / re-validation aside, think of print costs. Unlike most other conventions out there, Acen is not sponsored and is non-profit. The funds/funding/money they do get goes towards space rental, permits, past damages and other variable costs including printing. Having multiple print types for badges increases costs do to shorter runs. If IDs are required (and shouldn't they be?) for those restricted events/panels anyway, how would the convention justify the rising costs for the registration? If it was as simple as "we won't mind" they would have done this from the start.

The only time they did do a special run was during the 10th anniversary with the "collectors" lithographs badge and from the people I've spoken to, they've taken quite the hit do to that very reason.

This post has been edited by S1NN3R: 02 June 2011 - 02:12 AM

[Jguy]

If we're on the subject of colour coding badges according to people's age...as well as Medic 6's comments: (this comment/suggestion is in no way the views or ideas of Anime central as a whole, only my own)

Would it be feasible to ask for the DL# of each attendee upon badge pickup to make the colour coding more accurate? I don't believe that IL is the only state that puts coding in their DL# as identifying stuff....but for people over the age of 16, would it be a good idea to get a DL# of attendees upon badge signup online and then verify that against all the information that the attendee gave ACen? Obviously still checking the "over 18" people by checking their ID, but it would still give us the ability to sort through the attendees and weed out the ones that shouldn't even be in the line.

[myrla]

Asking for a Driver's License # would make me never come to ACEN. It's akin to asking for your Social Security # with the amount of things you can look up with it. It's unnecessary information.

Not everyone has a driver's license even if they are of age.

I would also never stand in a prereg line for hours just to get a badge. I'm 31, I got carded to get into a 21+ panel, and I coughed up my ID willingly. Checking it at the door is the fastest way. If you have no id, you don't get in. END OF STORY. If it takes more staff, get more staff. If you can't find more staff? Then figure out a way to have enough staff to cover the panels you DO have that require it, or lessen the amount of panels/things it takes to have it.

This post has been edited by myrla: 12 June 2011 - 12:33 PM

[Dark Spellmaster]

Let me add something that I just remembered that happened at my second Acen. My sister who comes with me is younger then me by a few years. At the time she was 17 going to be 18 within a month and a half. I thought I could get her into the 18+ pannel, but the guy at the door turned us down, even though we talked to him about it for about twenty minutes regarding her age. At the time I was a bit disappointed, but looking back I'm glad the guy did check. I don't remember his name, just that he had kind of curly short blonde hair and wore glasses and was wearing a blue shirt with a staff badge at the time. He was very professional and honest with me. Nothing tense at all, for which I was grateful.

Id also like to add that at the robot rumble pannel our ids were checked after a certain time, I rushed out to get mine, but sadly the man wasn't there when I got back. Which makes me wonder if he was checking people that came in late?

This post has been edited by Dark Spellmaster: 23 June 2011 - 02:40 AM

[Shiggitay]

I've not attended ACen yet, but I have to chime in that getting drunk uncontrollably is something I know too well. My brother's friends that come up from NYC area for Animé Boston get senselessly drunk, and then they walk around Boston's Hynes Convention Center, still drinking... using Sprite or 7Up as a clear liquid to carry vodka around with. It's sickening that they spend the little money they have to travel to the con, then for con reg, and then for buying countless amounts of alcohol that they consume throughout the weekend. What's sad is that they ARE animé fans, and they HAVE cosplayed and the whole lot, but lately they only get drunk and act stupid. Last year they almost got kicked out of the con center and hotel at AB for acting and obviously being intoxicated. Thankfully no one was kicked out, but it was a close one.

Luckily for me, the rave scene isn't for me. One of aforementioned friends received a back injury at said event, and is now undergoing treatment for his injuries. At Otakon 2009 my friend and I checked it out, and then we left almost immediately, deciding it wasn't for us. We ended up sitting outside the rave on our laptops just surfing the net for a bit.

Flask, I agree with all that've said to SCREAM AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS to get as much attention as possible. I'm a 27-year-old (28 by the time ACen hits) male, but I know I'd hate getting groped in any fashion by some random person I don't know. I'm really sorry you have to go through with this. I hope this doesn't discourage you from attending the con again. That would suck that this one event would completely alienate you from attending again.

[Inkwell09]

Thankfully neither I, nor any of my friends have been assaulted in any form at ACEN thus far, but I've definitely noticed things becoming more "out-of-control" in recent years.
Our first year attending, we also left the rave within minutes. This past year, someone tried to grind against one of the younger members of our group (around 15 yrs old), so we left immediately, and took the fastest path back to our hotel.
I also recall during ACEN 09, on Sunday a group of young men, aged approximately between 20-23, entered the dealers room on Sunday, and came up to us asking "Hey...when's the masquerade?" we responded that it had been the day before, and the group of them proceeded to laugh, but very loudly proclaimed something along the lines of: "Dude, we missed it. Wish we hadn't been hung-over all day yesterday."
Although nothing bad happened to myself or my friends during this encounter, it struck us as surprising that this sort of activity went on at a convention (we were pretty clueless...), in more recent years, I've noticed a larger number of age 20-something guys (they do not deserve the respect entailed with being referred to as "young men") hitting on younger girls, even when they may be dressed as obviously male characters. (Although cross-players do seem to be safer, if they are convincing enough...)
So, yes, I think the "predator" numbers are increasing, and I see no real solution to this issue, but there are some simple tactics that can help anyone avoid getting assaulted or groped: STAY IN A GROUP. Or at least with one other person who appears to be physically strong, or cranky, or mean, or even taller than you are. (And, if someone wants your picture, try to have preplanned a picture pose that you can do with this friend traveling with you. If the other person (potential predator) wants in the picture, tell them how to pose, and if they get difficult, leave.)
I would not recommend going to the rave by yourself, regardless of what gender you may be. As I stated before, even being accompanied by one other friend will make you that much less of a target. Also, make sure to obviously be in conversation with someone. If you are staring off into the blue, or looking around, you might come across as looking lost, which makes you seem like that much more of a target. (and don't be afraid to snub someone if in conversation they act or say something that strikes you as intrusive or inappropriate. If you act cranky and use a lot of big words, sometimes they back off. [<---I have done this many a time. It works pretty well.] just make sure to sound like you know what you are saying. {also, not to insult the intelligence of others, but if someone is behaving inappropriately, they are welcoming the insult to their intelligence.}]
This is the only advice that I can give. My apologies in regards to the long, tedious rant.

This post has been edited by Inkwell09: 14 August 2011 - 11:39 PM

[Dark Spellmaster]

A lot of the issues with older guys hitting on younger girls and vice versa is that it's seeping into the culture. Look at the celebrities and other prominet figures where the guy, or girl, hits on a younger person. Point of fact there have been movies about this, and more recently you have shows like Couger town. I think the only way to cool that off was if it wasn't the "In thing" to have a younger girlfriend. Also you have this subculture of guys thinking that conventions are a place where they can "Get Laid" by younger women who want to prove something. Think Spring Break except right in town and easier for a trophy girlfriend for the summer.

[Princess_Rebellion83]

Quote

In anime Iowa, they give attendees different badges depending on their age (one for 17-, one for 18-20, and one for 21+). It was as simple as changing the colors of the badges but it was easier to check than having everyone bring their IDs (though IDs are a good validation in case a minor lied or stole/switch their badges).

I do agree. But you are right. Someone can pull the ol' switch-a-roo. Maybe perhaps putting people real names on the bagde too? Either way, ACen will have to simply just check IDs. I know that IRT are human and not perfect but hell, it's their job.

And I aslo will be doing cosplay this year. I have already decided on pre-poses. I have been a loner but with the 'threats' on the rise, I think I will try to travel in a group or make friends with other attendees.

edit: added words.

This post has been edited by Princess_Rebellion83: 17 October 2011 - 12:55 PM

[Nikku]

Not to sound like sour grapes. But why can't the male cosplayers get molested like the girls?!....equal rights and all. I want the rage and indignation of having an ugly girl shoving her hand down my pants infront of my mates and telling me i'm a small boy or something. granted i'd be filled with a feeling of disgust and might send them through a window. But it just never happens. .....and No i'm not trying to sound like i'm mocking. Just saying. 2 years and i've never seen anything anyone speaks of because i guess i exude this aura of fear or something? Like the molesters run 600 meters from me at all times?

so let me say this. Girl's, never feel powerless or helpless. a guy attacks you and your not in a lone hallway..scream..fight. yell fire or help.. keep a face of rage or fear...don't look like your joking or having fun. Flail, kick, claw, punch. Make it clear who ever is to close is Not part of a skit or a friend going to far. There are few men who will sit back and let a girl be abused. I know i wouldn't i've had to be held back a few times because i viewed something uncalled for.

I'll just make it my offer now to be a group's papa bear. I had to do it last year just to defend my friend dressed as pedo bear. Poor guy got harassed alot, a group of fan girls nearly crushed the head and ripped his tail off. So PM me if your solo or feel like your group could use more people. I'm going with a few friends who this is their first year so lets try and make this acen a safer one.....and keep the creeper's in the shadows.

This post has been edited by Nikku: 25 February 2012 - 09:22 PM

[Dark Spellmaster]

Wonder if the fact that more guys don't get groped comes from girl's being shy about it, or more then likely most girls aren't going to be perverted unless they've had a few drinks in them.

Either way I agree that girls need to make noise if they're being harassed like that. Also good idea to use that IRT hotline.

[Alkaren Hyralt]

Nikku, on 25 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Not to sound like sour grapes. But why can't the male cosplayers get molested like the girls?!....equal rights and all. I want the rage and indignation of having an ugly girl shoving her hand down my pants infront of my mates and telling me i'm a small boy or something. granted i'd be filled with a feeling of disgust and might send them through a window. But it just never happens. .....and No i'm not trying to sound like i'm mocking. Just saying. 2 years and i've never seen anything anyone speaks of because i guess i exude this aura of fear or something? Like the molesters run 600 meters from me at all times?

so let me say this. Girl's, never feel powerless or helpless. a guy attacks you and your not in a lone hallway..scream..fight. yell fire or help.. keep a face of rage or fear...don't look like your joking or having fun. Flail, kick, claw, punch. Make it clear who ever is to close is Not part of a skit or a friend going to far. There are few men who will sit back and let a girl be abused. I know i wouldn't i've had to be held back a few times because i viewed something uncalled for.

I'll just make it my offer now to be a group's papa bear. I had to do it last year just to defend my friend dressed as pedo bear. Poor guy got harassed alot, a group of fan girls nearly crushed the head and ripped his tail off. So PM me if your solo or feel like your group could use more people. I'm going with a few friends who this is their first year so lets try and make this acen a safer one.....and keep the creeper's in the shadows.

Back when I cosplayed years ago I had a few way too desperate fangirls all over me

[Nikku]

Well, it seem's it more or less comes down to Upstanding men to keep the degenerates in line. Anyone on the forums who has a sense of honor...and a penis. Should be just a little bit aware from now on and keep a look out for others doing things or harrassing girls. I'll be honest just alittle. I don't want some drunk or sober jackwad scaring girls into not dressing up or even going to acen. That's part of the fun for me is seeing all the nice outfits or plain oh hotdahotdahotah girls

[mindue]

I'm gonna take a post I posted on facebook and post it here:
"The problem at conventions isn't alcohol use, it isn't people getting drunk, it's the lack of common sense mixing with those elements. I know people who've gotten drunk and stay in their hotel room playing cards or hanging out with friends, and I know others with similar self control when it comes to alcohol. However, then you get the morons who run around drunk getting into fights, breaking stuff, and causing all sorts of mayhem. If you can't handle alcohol, don't drink. If you like to get wild when you drink, don't drink. I know not everyone handles alcohol the same way, so if you can't control yourself DON'T DRINK! All you're doing is being selfish and causing problems for others."

[TheStrongJaeger]

mindue, on 07 March 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

I'm gonna take a post I posted on facebook and post it here:
"The problem at conventions isn't alcohol use, it isn't people getting drunk, it's the lack of common sense mixing with those elements. I know people who've gotten drunk and stay in their hotel room playing cards or hanging out with friends, and I know others with similar self control when it comes to alcohol. However, then you get the morons who run around drunk getting into fights, breaking stuff, and causing all sorts of mayhem. If you can't handle alcohol, don't drink. If you like to get wild when you drink, don't drink. I know not everyone handles alcohol the same way, so if you can't control yourself DON'T DRINK! All you're doing is being selfish and causing problems for others."

While I agree with you on all that, I'd just like to add that you don't have to be drunk to do any of those things. I've seen more damage caused and been bothered more by hyper sober kids than drunks in my time at ACen.

[chainedbyroses]

TheStrongJaeger, on 07 March 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

While I agree with you on all that, I'd just like to add that you don't have to be drunk to do any of those things. I've seen more damage caused and been bothered more by hyper sober kids than drunks in my time at ACen.

Agreed, though almost decade of observation (not just here, though here, maybe just because it's my home con, sticks out most in my head, if we pretend Reactor never existed *cringe*) sorta puts drunken/mob "wild & let's break sh*t" on a level of the more extreme damages than the "OMG I HAS SO MUch PAWKEE IN ME RN I CANZ SKUHWEE GUHLOOOMP MEEEE~~~" crowd. Also, hyper teenagers understand (eventually) the concept of "don't touch me" - drunk (and/or creepy) guys intent on feeling up a pair of boobies don't (or rather, won't).

Anyhow, back on topic. Agreed that the same idea can apply to any crowd, really. Same idea can be easily applied to hyper crazy t(w)eens away from mommy & daddy's supervision for the first time all-weekend - just change a few words around, "Don't behave how you wouldn't around mom and dad" instead of "Don't drink" for example, to reflect the change. Same concept, different words.~

[mindue]

chainedbyroses, on 07 March 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Agreed, though almost decade of observation (not just here, though here, maybe just because it's my home con, sticks out most in my head, if we pretend Reactor never existed *cringe*) sorta puts drunken/mob "wild & let's break sh*t" on a level of the more extreme damages than the "OMG I HAS SO MUch PAWKEE IN ME RN I CANZ SKUHWEE GUHLOOOMP MEEEE~~~" crowd. Also, hyper teenagers understand (eventually) the concept of "don't touch me" - drunk (and/or creepy) guys intent on feeling up a pair of boobies don't (or rather, won't).

Anyhow, back on topic. Agreed that the same idea can apply to any crowd, really. Same idea can be easily applied to hyper crazy t(w)eens away from mommy & daddy's supervision for the first time all-weekend - just change a few words around, "Don't behave how you wouldn't around mom and dad" instead of "Don't drink" for example, to reflect the change. Same concept, different words.~

True some people lack common sense without alcohol, and I also blame the parents of these teenagers for not having proper supervision of them. I forget at what convention it was where they had to shut down the convention 'cause a underaged girl went off with a older man to his hotel room. When I was a kid I was taught look don't touch, stranger danger, and buddy system. What happened to that?

[chainedbyroses]

mindue, on 07 March 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

True some people lack common sense without alcohol, and I also blame the parents of these teenagers for not having proper supervision of them. I forget at what convention it was where they had to shut down the convention 'cause a underaged girl went off with a older man to his hotel room. When I was a kid I was taught look don't touch, stranger danger, and buddy system. What happened to that?

I want to say the official end of Kids' badges/need to be supervised at all times is at 12, though there's a fair chance I'm wrong on that. At any rate, after age 12-13, no kid wants their parents to follow them around. Our first con (for my childhood bestie and I) we were maybe 14 or so & my friend's dad came with us, but we were ok with it 'cause he was awesome and like a giant kid himself & he was cool with us being our loud, obnoxious & silly selves in public (as opposed to our mothers lol). The next year our parents dropped us off & just had us call to check in like.... every other hour or so, with sporadic random/surprise checkups -- if we didn't answer, they'd come to get us right away & we'd not be allowed to come the next year. Many kids/t(w)eens, however, would rather be disemboweled alive than have mum or dad tag along and hear their conversations with their friends, or /worse/ be seen in public with them, so it's buh-bye mom & dad all weekend until they're picked up at night, or until Sunday if Mommy & Daddy are foolish enough to book a hotel in their name for their kid & friends to use without them being there for any more than check in/check out (just asking for trouble with that there, not to mention it's uh, illegal). As for kids going off to hotel rooms with older people, that unfortunately happens all the time -- aside from people generally not asking other people upon introduction "excuse me I'll need your full name, age and tele for my own safety kthx", stuff like room parties, hanging out with "new friends", or an older congoer offering to let them drink for example, and tl;dr, basically naivety, cloud better judgement from thinking "hmm, can anything possibly go wrong here?" - one of the less pleasant side effects of youth and feeling invincible, sadly. And then stuff and shenanigans happen, and things wind up broke and/or people in bad situations. We're just lucky so far there have been no problems reported about these things, or any busts where cops were involved, at least that we're aware of (though it's possible that worst-cases have already happened, and it's just no one's said anything though... :/).

And judging by the most recent batch off 9-12s who have no problem throwing rocks at moving car windows and calling drivers crap like "pathetic little p**sies" "f***ing [choice expletives] *aggots" et al for not stopping to fight kids, yeah, I'd say Generation Wannabe-Buttfaces [or whatever you call the 12s' generation]'s parents have failed. Clearly, something went wrong since us geezers here were kiddos... (I mean, yeah we swore and yelled at dumb cars' drivers, but in the days of "what are cell phones", rocks were reserved for creepy stalky pedo vans following you and your friends around for blocks on end/asking if you wanted candy or puppies.... )

[mindue]

I've been going to Acen since 2007, so since I was 15. I always went with my older brother, who unfortunately is a major flake and will walk off and leave me alone places >.>. But I assure you despite being in the convention alone most of the time, I never did have the stuff I've seen other kids doing. I've never gotten in trouble with Irt, never glomped or hugged anyone without asking first, never got drunk or did drugs at ACEN, never talked to stranger or went off with strange adults, or any crazy stuff like that. I think the worst that I used to do was have weeaboo moments and squeal, but I outgrew that for the most part . Unfortunately just like with alcohol and stuff, some people just have more common sense. Some teens and preteens are really well behaved and you wouldn't guess their age unless they told you. Others, just like the out of control drunks, need to be on a leash, need to be monitored, and most don't even need to be at the convention.

[Oyuki]

Does a backhand to the groper count as self defense? I feel like some people do this crap because they believe there won't be consequences.

[chainedbyroses]

Oyuki, on 16 March 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Does a backhand to the groper count as self defense? I feel like some people do this crap because they believe there won't be consequences.

Depends where you're at. Some places would consider it a separate assault/battery from the groping/sexual assault being done to you (possibly charging you for hitting them), whereas other locales may consider it justified self-defense. If you want a guaranteed answer on this, only Rosemont PD can answer you fully and accurately -- their jobs are based on knowing the law, whereas all others commenting can only give a best idea. I'll find out for certain tonight or tomorrow and report back here.

I've been groped at the con before enough times myself & (in later times after the Oh Noes Panic became Aw Hellz No) it took all my willpower to not smack them; nobody touches my parts without my explicit permission, thankyouverymuch. In retrospect, I ought have snapped their pictures & just called the cops, or dragged them over to the nearest IRT/Rosemont PD and reported their assault right there on the spot. Hindsight is 20/20 though, or so they say; just wish I'd have been able to guarantee those creepers got taken care of & couldn't grope/creep on again... At any rate, I can understand your sentiment, though I'd argue it's that they think they can get away with it because there are "no consequences". Over the years this has been long discussed, and time and again we see horror stories, threads on prevention, or people asking advice, and still things happen; until we have everyone at con alert and ready to react, and stop these things as they start, the same will be the case this year too (similar discussion and prevention/handling suggestions I made in the similar "Fellow Congoer Horror Stories" thread, if anyone's interested - bit lengthy though).

On a side note, rereading this thread, y'all ought really be aware of those around you -- meaning keep an eye out for others too, not just being aware of your own immediate bubble & group. If you see a girl (or guy!) near or near-ish (or in the distance!) you being felt up, creeped on, or harassed in any way, try to help them out if you can, or grab the nearest IRT/Rosemont officer and ask them to go see if everything is alright. Not only is it the smart thing to do, it's the right, and compassionate, thing to do. Simple awareness and concern for your fellow human beings/congoers can solve a lot of these problems we see today...

[Oyuki]

Tehehehe
Ask the groper for a picture then, got it :3

I'm definitely interested in contacting Rosemont PD for their input.

[Dark Spellmaster]

One thing for sure you can do if this happens, get the guys name, or at least the badge name, and call IRT hotline. I'm sure that they would gladly take a report and keep an eye out for the groper. What I'd also do right away is put my arms around my chest to cover and then push back against them hard to throw them off. Or step on their instep, it's painful as all get out. Might actually make them back off.

[chainedbyroses]

Dark Spellmaster, on 17 March 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

One thing for sure you can do if this happens, get the guys name, or at least the badge name, and call IRT hotline. I'm sure that they would gladly take a report and keep an eye out for the groper. What I'd also do right away is put my arms around my chest to cover and then push back against them hard to throw them off. Or step on their instep, it's painful as all get out. Might actually make them back off. <_<

Depending on area, that also could be considered an assault on your part (even if they were sexually assaulting you in the first place - some places have weird laws), or it could be considered justified self-defense. I'll know for sure later today when I talk with RPD - I'll make sure to include this too in the questions I ask.

As for IRT hotline, 911 might honestly be faster in events of emergencies (which sexual assault is) since they're trained for this/speedy response and are already on site, and frankly, groping/sexual assault is a serious crime that really needs to be reported to authorities before the offender has a chance to escape and get away unidentified; if anything though, just call them after the cops, or flag down an Op or RPD if one is nearby to notify IRT then (long sentence is long). (While I'm asking, I'll include this as well -- who to call first to report this kind of incident.)