[The Fujoshi]

Kokoro, on 29 May 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

I wish I had known going into this that IRT won't lift a finger to help you if you don't have the name(s) of the IRT person who fed you bogus information, acted improperly, etc. I would have written down the name of every IRT person I ran into. Oh well. Now I know for next year, if I want to go. I hate having to make a fuss, but dang IRT, you really messed things.

OH WELL. Nothing to do about it now.

The problem is that IRT is made up of random individuals every year and are people like you and me. There isn't a major screening process from what I gathered since I knew someone from IRT who was one of the unsavory folks, and he was fired after the con was over from smoking weed and ditching his responsibilities.

The only thing you can really do is be aware and report any IRT that are not doing their jobs. Remember their name and faces if you can; be descriptive. If they ignore something major or look lax report it to the high ups so they can fix it. IRT have hard hours at times; sometimes 11 hour shifts, so I know it's not easy, but some IRT members are more unsavory and override the good ones that do do their jobs.

So if you go to Acen 2012 keep that in mind.

[-JUNK-]

All I have to say is the next time in in the Siesta 00 cosplay Im probably going to have someone with me for the whole outfit wearing OwO

[Kokoro]

-JUNK-, on 29 May 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

All I have to say is the next time in in the Siesta 00 cosplay Im probably going to have someone with me for the whole outfit wearing OwO

Did you get groped?

[-JUNK-]

OH yeah >.>

[Kokoro]

Did you grab the guy when he did it, tear his arm off, feed it to a rabid dog, and then report him to IRT afterward?

[-JUNK-]

I told him whats up with my mean side that nobody really gets to see.
Went back to my hotel room and changed and went to the Embassy for the rest of the night.

[Kokoro]

Next time I suggest SHOUTING for IRT/security. If he tries to walk away follow him. What he did is illegal and he should be punished. Too many guys think a woman dressed a certain way means she's asking for it.

[-JUNK-]

mental noted.

though it seems to always happen its like i have a magnet on me somewhere.
>///<

[msd121]

tatsumakichan, on 29 May 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I agree. Or maybe 2 different raves in 2 different locations. One rave can be held in a different hotel to avoid congestion and human traffic. The 17- one should be held earlier and end earlier while the 18+ one can be the soapbubble. It is harder to kick people out if they are intermingled with everyone else.

In anime Iowa, they give attendees different badges depending on their age (one for 17-, one for 18-20, and one for 21+). It was as simple as changing the colors of the badges but it was easier to check than having everyone bring their IDs (though IDs are a good validation in case a minor lied or stole/switch their badges).

But how does anime Iowa ensure that people give their actual age and date of birth when they purchase their badge? If you only have at-con registration, you can require ID when people purchase their badges, but if you allow internet purchases (as ACEN does), i'm not really sure how that could be done.


And as for the groping problem... yeah, have them brought to the cops and taken into custody. People who think they can get away with making uninvited contact with a complete stranger are, in my opinion, not worth giving a second chance.

However, at the same time I would like to remind all the boyfriends out there that if your girlfriend (or any other girl) is groped, that does not necessarily mean that you can start kicking the piss out of the assailant. You might want to, but in doing so, you would be initiating violence, and he/she, in fact, would be in a position to have you arrested, as well. It would be much wiser to grab the assailant stiffly by the back of their collar and say "excuse me..." As much as i despise gropers (and anyone how seeks gratification through the humiliation of others), guys who reinforce their masculinity through open acts of violence annoy me almost as much. A number of years ago a friend of mine got socked solidly in the face for asking a girl how old she was (he had made a stupid bet with some friends). Embarrassing though that question may be, it is in no way a crime for which self-defense is applicable, and had i been there, i would have seen that he left in cuffs. To my recollection, the program book repeatedly states not to take problematic situations into your own hands - contact IRT or the police. While restraining the criminal may be justified, harming him/her is not.

end rant.

This post has been edited by msd121: 29 May 2011 - 11:38 PM

[Dark Spellmaster]

Might I add this, staying in an area that has people helps. When I say this I mean like artist alley or the trade area. Because there's a lot of people around I've seen less of a turn up of gropers.

[tatsumakichan]

I have no idea how Anime Iowa works but it is a small con so it's probably easier to manage. I think the color badges just serves as an initial identifier but if someone looks suspicious, you can then go a step further by pulling him/her aside and asking for a show of ID. That way there will be less of an hold up in the line.

I got groped at ACen this year at least once. This dude wanted to take pictures with me but he ended up grabbing by the waist and rubbing his hands all over me. It was in a populated area in front of a lot of people but no one did anything and his friend even helped him by making excuses that the pictures were coming out blurry. I didn't want to make a scene so I didn't say anything but in retrospect, I should've stabbed him in the eyes with my claws. They are wooden but highly sharpen.
Or at least push him away. Didn't think 'cause I was in a hurry.

[kenkendazo]

msd121, on 29 May 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

However, at the same time I would like to remind all the boyfriends out there that if your girlfriend (or any other girl) is groped, that does not necessarily mean that you can start kicking the piss out of the assailant. You might want to, but in doing so, you would be initiating violence, and he/she, in fact, would be in a position to have you arrested, as well. It would be much wiser to grab the assailant stiffly by the back of their collar and say "excuse me..." As much as i despise gropers (and anyone how seeks gratification through the humiliation of others), guys who reinforce their masculinity through open acts of violence annoy me almost as much. A number of years ago a friend of mine got socked solidly in the face for asking a girl how old she was (he had made a stupid bet with some friends). Embarrassing though that question may be, it is in no way a crime for which self-defense is applicable, and had i been there, i would have seen that he left in cuffs. To my recollection, the program book repeatedly states not to take problematic situations into your own hands - contact IRT or the police. While restraining the criminal may be justified, harming him/her is not.

end rant.

Though beating them up may be illegal, there is good justification. If they press charges and you press charges, you would probably only get a slap on the wrist compared to them. A Molester vs. someone who was stopping the act, I wonder whose side the law would be on.

[Kokoro]

I find it depressing that so many women were groped and did nothing about it. You've GOT to turn these guys in. There is no excuse for their actions, and by letting them walk away you're allowing them to get off scott free and most likely molest more women. I know you may find it embarrassing, but remember that you've done nothing wrong. You have no need to be embarrassed. Next time this happens, please DO make a scene. It's what they deserve.

This post has been edited by Kokoro: 30 May 2011 - 08:52 AM

[Rukariou]

msd121, on 29 May 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

But how does anime Iowa ensure that people give their actual age and date of birth when they purchase their badge? If you only have at-con registration, you can require ID when people purchase their badges, but if you allow internet purchases (as ACEN does), i'm not really sure how that could be done.

It's really simple, require a government ID with your birthday and picture on it. I know at AI they will give you a 17&under badge if you don't have an ID proving you are 18+. Anime Detour does the same thing. The 18+ badge color doesn't stand in for your ID, you still need it on you to get into adult panels, but it makes it easy for security to pick the kids out that shouldn't even be in line and tell them to go elsewhere.

[Kokoro]

Rukariou, on 30 May 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

It's really simple, require a government ID with your birthday and picture on it. I know at AI they will give you a 17&under badge if you don't have an ID proving you are 18+. Anime Detour does the same thing. The 18+ badge color doesn't stand in for your ID, you still need it on you to get into adult panels, but it makes it easy for security to pick the kids out that shouldn't even be in line and tell them to go elsewhere.

I think having to show ID at registration and getting a color-coded badge (under 18, over 18, over 21...) is a fantastic idea. Yes, people will somehow find a way around it - fake IDs, swapping badges with friends...no solution will be 100% foolproof. But it will help, imo.

But how would people who pre-register online show ID...?

[Rukariou]

Kokoro, on 30 May 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

I think having to show ID at registration and getting a color-coded badge (under 18, over 18, over 21...) is a fantastic idea. Yes, people will somehow find a way around it - fake IDs, swapping badges with friends...no solution will be 100% foolproof. But it will help, imo.

But how would people who pre-register online show ID...?

When they pick up their badge. Of course this means they would have to eliminate mailing badges. But like I said before, the badge doesn't mean you still don't need your ID for adult programming. So say if someone has a 18+ badge trying to get into the Yaoi panel, and the IRT asks to see ID but they don't have it, or even worse it says they're 17, they won't be allowed in, but will also have a lot of explaining to do about why they have 18+ badge and possibly have the badge taken away for the weekend or given a 17&under badge.

[Kokoro]

Rukariou, on 30 May 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

When they pick up their badge. Of course this means they would have to eliminate mailing badges. But like I said before, the badge doesn't mean you still don't need your ID for adult programming. So say if someone has a 18+ badge trying to get into the Yaoi panel, and the IRT asks to see ID but they don't have it, or even worse it says they're 17, they won't be allowed in, but will also have a lot of explaining to do about why they have 18+ badge and possibly have the badge taken away for the weekend or given a 17&under badge.

Unfortunately I would NOT recommend eliminating the mailing option. Ever.

[Rukariou]

Kokoro, on 30 May 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

Unfortunately I would NOT recommend eliminating the mailing option. Ever.

No, but I suppose that's where the second comment comes from. Disciplining people who lie about their age because they think it's going to work.

[Pashy-chan]

Rukariou, on 30 May 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

When they pick up their badge. Of course this means they would have to eliminate mailing badges. But like I said before, the badge doesn't mean you still don't need your ID for adult programming. So say if someone has a 18+ badge trying to get into the Yaoi panel, and the IRT asks to see ID but they don't have it, or even worse it says they're 17, they won't be allowed in, but will also have a lot of explaining to do about why they have 18+ badge and possibly have the badge taken away for the weekend or given a 17&under badge.

I feel like with this.. Eliminating badge mailing would be absolutely out of question, especially with registration pressing con-goers to make sure they choose the mailing options this upcoming year. Not only this, but from my experience with any 16+ or 18+ panel, staffers barely look at the ID, a quick glance and you're in with some cases. I just feel like that this is something that just doesn't seem plausible with the amount of attendees we have. Lets say this is inacted for the Soap Bubble. Out of the 7,500 people that went this year, let's say only 4000 we're over the age of 18. That's 4,000 ID's of different types and different states that would need to throughly be checked as people are entering. Why throughly? Because if these kids really want to get into the Soap Bubble, they WILL have a fake ID (Heck, a good 2/3rds of my highschool had one). For staff, allowing people in would essentially be turned into the job of a bouncer, and God knows how many bouncers have to go through 4,000 people in the allotted time of only a few hours.

And even without the likelyhood of having fake identification, in comparison to other 18+ panels, just the sheer amount of attendees at the SOAP bubble will be over-whelming to the staff who hold this position. I say this as I've seen panels with only 100ish attendees where staff already seemed overwhelmed, focus shifted into getting people into the event timely, and know people who've easily slipped past with a license that clearly showed they were only 17.

This post has been edited by Pashy-chan: 30 May 2011 - 11:57 AM

[DJFLuFFKiNS]

Just so you guys know, the color coded badge idea has come up very frequently. While a good idea on the surface, it has potentially bad consequences when implemented. First off, there's really no guarantee that someone won't try to share a badge with a friend, given that fact, the only responsible thing is to card everyone anyways.

Secondly, and possibly more importantly, it labels certain individuals as a target. Unfortunately, there are individuals in the world who would target someone because they're a minor, and it doesn't make sense to make that visible to all individuals. In fact, it makes it more likely that someone would do the first thing because of the second thing.

[msd121]

With regards to the identification of fake IDs, the Illinois Secretary of State Police offer a course (to my knowledge, free of charge) called "Operation Straight ID". Provided that you have enough people (at least 10), they will come to your location and give the 90 minute presentation. Even though it is mostly targeted at alcohol-serving establishments, I don't see why they would have a problem giving the class for IRT and related staff members.

[Unka Josh]

DJFLuFFKiNS, on 30 May 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Just so you guys know, the color coded badge idea has come up very frequently. While a good idea on the surface, it has potentially bad consequences when implemented. First off, there's really no guarantee that someone won't try to share a badge with a friend, given that fact, the only responsible thing is to card everyone anyways.

The above is why we require state-issued photo ID for the adult entertainment in the video rooms. (Trust me, there are conversations with parents that I am not going to have...)

[Kokoro]

DJFLuFFKiNS, on 30 May 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Just so you guys know, the color coded badge idea has come up very frequently. While a good idea on the surface, it has potentially bad consequences when implemented. First off, there's really no guarantee that someone won't try to share a badge with a friend, given that fact, the only responsible thing is to card everyone anyways.

Secondly, and possibly more importantly, it labels certain individuals as a target. Unfortunately, there are individuals in the world who would target someone because they're a minor, and it doesn't make sense to make that visible to all individuals. In fact, it makes it more likely that someone would do the first thing because of the second thing.

The first point people already touched upon and acknowledged that it could/would happen. No plan is 100% foolproof. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be put into place.

As for your second point...wouldn't someone's face make it clear even without a color-coded badge that they're, I dunno...jail bait? Young people often...look...young.

[Unka Josh]

Kokoro, on 30 May 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

As for your second point...wouldn't someone's face make it clear even without a color-coded badge that they're, I dunno...jail bait? Young people often...look...young.

In my experience, you can't judge age by appearance for anyone under the age of maybe 30. (You usually can, but there are people who will throw you off. A lot.)

[Kokoro]

Unka Josh, on 30 May 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

In my experience, you can't judge age by appearance for anyone under the age of maybe 30. (You usually can, but there are people who will throw you off. A lot.)

Maybe so, but in some cases it's pretty obvious if someone is, say, 13 rather than 21. I don't see this issue causing such massive problems that it makes it impossible to have color coded badges. I've been to cons that have special badges for certain ages.

[daegan]

Unka Josh, on 30 May 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

In my experience, you can't judge age by appearance for anyone under the age of maybe 30. (You usually can, but there are people who will throw you off. A lot.)

As the magic number of 30 comes into question in my line of work a lot, I can back this up.

[Kokoro]

My mom's 50 and she looks 10 years younger, if not more. People have mistaken her for my older sister.

I still don't understand why it would be so dangerous to identify someone's age by a color coded badge. Like I said, other cons do it, and I've never heard them complain about minors getting targeted. Minors can be targeted whether they have on a special badge or not. Some losers like jail bait, y'know. And since they're already allowed in places like the Soap Bubble where a number of people are drunk or stoned, it's not like they aren't already getting exposed to losers who might want to take advantage of them. This argument would probably move me more if stories about underage drinking and sex weren't already pretty common at Acen.

[Unka Josh]

Kokoro, on 31 May 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

I still don't understand why it would be so dangerous to identify someone's age by a color coded badge. Like I said, other cons do it, and I've never heard them complain about minors getting targeted. Minors can be targeted whether they have on a special badge or not.

Very true.

...Also not my concern. (Hi. Head of Video Programming here. I, or my staff, are legally required to check your ID when you enter certain rooms.)

No, the big issue is "What would be the point?"

See, you can trade your badge with your friends, and you know what? We have no way of knowing about it. So an age-coded badge wouldn't do to prove your age to anybody for legal purposes-- we'd have to see your ID anyway.

Therefore, well, what would the benefit be?

[Kokoro]

You're assuming that every underage person has an of age friend who's willing to swap badges with them. What if they both want to get into an age restricted event? Then they couldn't swap.

Also...

Rukariou, on 30 May 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

But like I said before, the badge doesn't mean you still don't need your ID for adult programming. So say if someone has a 18+ badge trying to get into the Yaoi panel, and the IRT asks to see ID but they don't have it, or even worse it says they're 17, they won't be allowed in, but will also have a lot of explaining to do about why they have 18+ badge and possibly have the badge taken away for the weekend or given a 17&under badge.

If this occurs, it should be a rule that the badge will be taken away both from the underage person trying to get in, and from the person the badge originally belonged to. So they can either go home or buy another badge.

[Pashy-chan]

I believe this could work with the video rooms, definitely, but like Josh said.. as they already check, there's little to no point of it..And as for other events that are age required..and the attendance is very high to get in.. The only solution I see is staffers buckling down when looking at these ID's, and maybe even having more man power to do so in a timely manner. I think you mentioned yourself, Kokoro, how some barely looked at ID's while people entered a panel.. Imagine the leverage that would give someone knowing they can look at a color coded badge and have even more of a reason to shrug it off. And I'm not downplaying any staffer or anything like that, when you have a great amount of people that you're trying to get in as quickly as possible, and after working what could've been the entire day, it's natural to grow tired, and to let people slip by... and I would imagine having badges color-coded would raise the chances of that happening.

Not only this, but like Fluffykins said, at a convention with so many people, there are bound to be predators. You hear such a case at a convention every year, let's not make ACen one of them.. Just as we all came to the general consensus that a good chunk of our congoing population is STUPID, it is safe to say with the rise of our population, so has the rise in creepers as well.. so let's not make our younger ACenners an easier target.. I have to agree with Unka Josh and daegan, with many people 30 and under the lines of age are visually blurred.. I deal with this almost daily, with people mistaking my little sister to be 21..and me as her little tag along.. =.= Likewise, I have been in the position of dealing with people who specifically target me, thinking I'm underage. "Look at you.. so cute.. You're a what..freshman in highschool? What's you're name, sweet thing?" "In college.." "Oh.. You have a nice day..." <---- True story...

I'm starting to ramble on now, and I know this factor was nitpicked back and forth, but it shouldn't be something just shrugged off. Aiyah.. Call it beating a dead horse, but having been in the position of someone targeted for that reason several times..(One being my first Acen.. =.=) I just would hate to see ACen make things easier for those who seek out minors. There are so many out there who look beyond their age, and the line between 16, 17 and 18 has always been a thin one.. So for the sake of those, lets please not make them an easy hunt?

This post has been edited by Pashy-chan: 31 May 2011 - 03:59 PM