[The Fujoshi]

Hantsuki, on 09 August 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

What's even funnier is that most Japanese don't even care that Americans are butchering their language because they do the same thing to English.

This; which makes me wonder why do people get so mad if someone uses anything Japanese? I remember I started using san as a joke and this guy got so angry and started called me a Weeb. He even asked me did I know what it mean and I said "yeah I know what it means and how to use it. Since I'm the oldest person on this forum I can call you kun and san and even kouhai technically."

[Agatha]

I think the issue people have with people inserting Japanese into English-language conversation is that, of the people who do that, there are many people in the group who don't know when to tone it down. For example, that kid in high-school who always referred to the teachers as 'sensei,' or people who go into a store, ask for something in Japanese, and then get alternately giggly and offended when the salesperson doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's also about how it's done. Calling people by honorifics can be a cute joke when you're among other anime fans who also know what you're talking about, and it works because there's no direct English equivalent. If you start saying things like, "I work at the toshokan, but I might be late today because I can't find my kutsu. They're ao, have you seen them?" it just sounds ridiculous.

Since those kinds of things tend to reflect negatively on anime fans as a whole, and cause second-hand embarrassment, I think a lot of people have a sort of "OHGODNO!" reaction to it, no matter who's doing the speaking or how.

[The Fujoshi]

Agatha, on 13 August 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

I think the issue people have with people inserting Japanese into English-language conversation is that, of the people who do that, there are many people in the group who don't know when to tone it down. For example, that kid in high-school who always referred to the teachers as 'sensei,' or people who go into a store, ask for something in Japanese, and then get alternately giggly and offended when the salesperson doesn't know what they're talking about.

It's also about how it's done. Calling people by honorifics can be a cute joke when you're among other anime fans who also know what you're talking about, and it works because there's no direct English equivalent. If you start saying things like, "I work at the toshokan, but I might be late today because I can't find my kutsu. They're ao, have you seen them?" it just sounds ridiculous.

Since those kinds of things tend to reflect negatively on anime fans as a whole, and cause second-hand embarrassment, I think a lot of people have a sort of "OHGODNO!" reaction to it, no matter who's doing the speaking or how.

Well I guess the former would be with anyone with another language. It used to make me so mad that people at work would talk spanish and even crack jokes but get mad/mocking amused that I didn't talk good spanish. I think that's why I'm trying to learn as many languages as possible so I don't get this feeling of being beneath someone.

But I'm curious on your opinion about the latter statement? Like if I say: "Watashi wa Fujoshi no ga." or is "Hi my name is Fujoshi kawaii desu!" are both offensive or just the latter?

I remember speaking good Japanese and said formention guy I mentioned said I used google translate and that I was a weeb because Americans don't suppose to speak Japanese because we are in America.

[Agatha]

I think both your examples could be okay, or both could be offensive - it's really context-dependent. In an informal situation, where you're speaking with friends who either speak Japanese, or find bad Japanese funny if you're speaking bad Japanese, or otherwise are cool with it, then it doesn't matter what you do. When you start talking to people with whom you aren't so close, I think it gets dicier.

I'm having a hard time verbalizing my thoughts on the matter, so I'll say I think I'm of the opinion that if you're not speaking with friends, it's better to just pick one language and stick to it, and to pick the appropriate one for the situation. If you speak perfect Japanese, great, but if you're in a situation where other people don't speak it, or don't speak it to the same degree that you do, or where you don't know whether they speak it or not (or where you don't know whether they WANT to speak it or not), it's better to just use English - it's just not appropriate otherwise. It's like showing up to a formal party in a swimsuit. The swimsuit's not inherently offensive but wearing it at the wrong time can be.

If you're speaking bad Japanese, it's the same thing, but with the added notion that if people don't get the joke, it does reflect more negatively back on you, because not only is it not situationally appropriate but it also makes you look dumb. Basically, if you're not with people whom you know will immediately get the joke and find it funny, don't do it!

As an example, I studied Russian at university, and after some time together my classmates and I developed our own sort of Russian/English hybrid slang. A conversation might be as follows:

Me: Hey, Misha, mozhno your slovar' for a second?
Misha: Yeah, konechno.
Me: Spasibo. Hey, Anya and I were gonna get Chinese food later. You want in?
Misha: When are you going?
Me: I dunno, skoro.
Misha: Klass.

It was perfectly all right to talk that way amongst ourselves, because we all understood it and were all in on the joke. If I had spoken that way to my professor, she would certainly have understood me, but she also would have thought I was lazy for not speaking to her entirely in Russian, when I was clearly able to make the effort to speak a few words. (She also would have ripped out my still-beating heart and used it as a chew toy as punishment for deliberately mangling her native tongue, but that's a story for another day...) If I had spoken that way to a Russian student not in my class, he probably would have assumed that I spoke Russian so badly that I could only use the few words I did. Had I spoken to him in flawless Russian, he might have thought it was great, or he might have been annoyed with me for speaking Russian when we both speak English natively and thus don't need to. If I had spoken that way to someone who doesn't speak any Russian, even if they had managed to understand me because of the context, they likely would wonder why I'm not speaking to them in a way they understand, which could lead to all kinds of unfavorable assumptions - that I'm a showoff, etc.

Pretty much, situational awareness is key. I think the reason that Japanese gets such a negative reaction is because anime fans are such a large group, and a lot of us do tend to have at least a little difficulty in reading social situations, so we're more likely than other groups to use foreign languages inappropriately.

As for the specific guy that was bothered by it, it sounds like a personal issue of his.

[The Fujoshi]

Ah yes I'm learning Russian myself. TWT you are so lucky.

Well the work issue was that Spanish is such a common language in America, especially in my city. The people in question spoke spanish and english but they would speak so much Spanish that they would end up speaking Spanish inadvertently. It was kind of annoying because they would crack jokes and since 75% of the managers didn't speak Spanish it was fine. (And some favor-tism as well.)

I think it depends on the person; if you spoke Russian I would be all amazed and like "awwww cool!" and beg you to teach me. I don't get mad at the people who use Japanese casually in conversations but I do get annoyed at people who speak English, broken English, or another language and think they are above other people or hot stuff. I'm thinking 'No your English is worse than my Japanese.'

I used to be like that but I tried to learn better and proper Japanese and wanted to be a translator since high school so maybe I was an exception to that statement.

No the people who make me mad are the yolo and weeaboos combined together. They seem to appear a lot in the Drrr/Hetalia/MLP fandoms.