[Santa Finland]

Well, I have a hard time judging on the photos themselves as I have not seen them. Sites can make whatever rules they want for what people can and can't post on them. However, the way she was treated was definitely wrong. When I did fem!America, I didn't do it for sex appeal. I did take the amount of skin exposed into account but in a "this would be a good cosplay for summer" type of way. I recently put together a pretty revealing nyan cat gijinka but again not for sex appeal or attention (or at least no more than my modest cosplays). I did it that way because I was making it is my rave outfit and needed something cool.

I always find the bashing on attention seeking in the cosplay community quite ironic. What cosplayer doesn't want some attention? When I'm dressed as Alice where the only skin bared is my face and arms, I want people to take my photo and compliment my work just as much as I do when I'm dressed as fem!America. As long as I'm not hurting anyone with my attention seeking, what's the problem?

[Shuichilove]

Cosplay at a convention is largely about attention... Seems like a stupid argument all around. You want to wear a costume in public. Get recognized. Get complimented on. And all that other fun stuff.

[YoungBirdcall]

Shuichilove, on 06 August 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Cosplay at a convention is largely about attention... You want to wear a costume in public. Get recognized. Get complimented on [it]. And all that other fun stuff.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Sure, there may be other reasons why someone cosplays, such as a desire to show their love for a show/movie and/or a particular character. But one could more easily communicate this by wearing a t-shirt commemorating that show/movie or character. Cosplaying is inherently and fundamentally about receiving attention. There's nothing wrong with that, though. Actors, musicians, and stand-up comedians also crave the attention. Anyone who performs for other people does so because he/she wants that attention. This may not be their main motivator, but it is a factor. And there's nothing wrong with that (not that Shuichilove [or anyone else] said that there was).

[Santa Finland]

Heck most people want attention sometimes. Who hasn't worn an awesome new t-shirt and hoped someone would comment on it? Wanting and seeking attention in itself, isn't a bad thing. It's only a problem when you try to get attention by doing bad things like people who seek attention by bullying or something. There's no reason to shame people who want attention as long as they're being harmless.

[Dark Spellmaster]

cactusmomma, on 05 August 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Along those lines, something that's been popping up more: Skimpy costume/character in a towel/anything with cleavage or midriff =automatically= equals sexy. No regards to 'I'm in a group doing an artwork' or 'I really like this character, but this is what they wear'... it's instantly considered to be a cry for attention and appeal.

I recently saw a girl that the character she was doing was in a towel. They were labeled as test shots for a group..and knowing the girl, she really enjoys the character and sex appeal was more than likely the furthest thing from her mind (not that kind of girl). Well, she also cosplays with her young daughter and has photos of her on the same account. She was promptly chewed out for making 'porn'. She wasn't showing her midriff or exposing herself in any way, nor were the photos remotely sexual... but yet, she was humiliated because a group of girls decided it was immoral and something for a 'private site'. Made me sad, to be truthful.

What do you guys think about that sort of thing? Would something like that fall under the risque category and was it right that she was forced to take the photos down? Or were those chewing her out in the right?

Honestly, given what you stated I'm inclined to say that the girls were off the mark. However I think it would depend on how long the towel was, and if she was in her wig and such. I think it probably does fall under the risque catagory, mainly because she is wearing a towel, thus the implications are that said character probably is not clothed under the towel. Best bet, even with test shots of such a nature, would be to (if possible) block the shots from public viewers and then (if possible) link the shots to people that she knows will appriciate the images.

To me it would be fine, to someone else it would be seen as a mature photo since it is a grown woman in nothing but a towel. You didn't say if she had on a wig or something to idicate right away to a viewer that it was a costume and not a personal shot?

[Wingypoo]

cactusmomma, on 05 August 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Along those lines, something that's been popping up more: Skimpy costume/character in a towel/anything with cleavage or midriff =automatically= equals sexy. No regards to 'I'm in a group doing an artwork' or 'I really like this character, but this is what they wear'... it's instantly considered to be a cry for attention and appeal.

I recently saw a girl that the character she was doing was in a towel. They were labeled as test shots for a group..and knowing the girl, she really enjoys the character and sex appeal was more than likely the furthest thing from her mind (not that kind of girl). Well, she also cosplays with her young daughter and has photos of her on the same account. She was promptly chewed out for making 'porn'. She wasn't showing her midriff or exposing herself in any way, nor were the photos remotely sexual... but yet, she was humiliated because a group of girls decided it was immoral and something for a 'private site'. Made me sad, to be truthful.

What do you guys think about that sort of thing? Would something like that fall under the risque category and was it right that she was forced to take the photos down? Or were those chewing her out in the right?

I don't think it's anyone's place to say such things without knowing the person and if you do, be respectful about it. It's not always about the attention but not everyone in the cosplay community understands that. I'm sure you're going to get those who think that it's all for attention while others who appreciate the cosplay for who/what it is. I get why people tend to think that just because you show extra skin that you just want attention but it's not always about that. Sometimes we're just trying to be accurate to the cosplay xD lol. If this girl wasn't exposing herself then why would anyone bother her? It sounds like either those girls are jealous or they just want a reason to complain. I think it's more risque if you're starting to expose private parts. That's just my opinion though.

[Shuichilove]

I'm just going to hit all the points in one go.

Cosplay at a convention is a social activity. Saying how its not for attention or others holding it against you are just silly, inane, and extremely pointless arguments to make. Its like going to a party and being angry someone tried to talk to you. Why else would you go if not to be social?

Negative and Positive attention differs from the general idea. Self explanatory. What you want versus what you don't want. Pervy Guy Compliment vs Standard compliment.

With costumes being the focal, well that is a completely different argument. One doing more with social construct and gendered norms. Other people are far better than me at describing this, but to give a quick bit. You have to rationalize what has been socially conditioned for you against what is your own train of thought. Compare typical women's shorts to Men's. Men's are knee high, Women's are thigh high. One is definitely more revealing than the other, but its also the social norm for the genders. This will affect your decisions even if you are not aware of it. We have different standards and each person is going to have a different standard.

I'm also going to say this, though it is far more personal opinion. I think people just want to look good(The other option being a more humorous route), but the cute, cool, and sexy costumes all fall under this. Its the same when you buy clothes. Who is honestly going to wear something they think looks bad on them self unless its supposed to be a joke? Even those people you see as fashion disastrous will still pick something they feel comfortable in to wear. Rather than something they think looks terrible on them. People have different tastes and it shows, why its cute to one person and sexy to another. But lets not play coy and pretend like no one here doesn't want to look fabulous.

This post has been edited by Shuichilove: 08 August 2012 - 04:43 PM

[The Fujoshi]

Shuichilove, on 08 August 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

But lets not play coy and pretend like no one here doesn't want to look fabulous.

I don't. But I do want to be on par. I thought fabulous was like ummmm Itsuki from Haruhi or something :3

But I get your point. The problem is that it's a bunch of people and a lot of age categories in one area. What is offensive to one person isn't to the next so it creates problems. While some people think it's ok to wear nothing but a bikini to another person it's totally not cool and you need to put clothes on. Then you have the people who cosplay certain characters as "attention w." So it's hard to figure out what person is what and a person's opinions vs. what you assume the situation or their opinion is.

My attitude is just ignore it unless it gets to the point of breaking the law, like groping, tackling, etc. If someone is cosplaying a character off par then roll on. If you don't like it don't voice your opinion; the person doesn't care, you are breaking their feelings, or just straight up sounding like an elist idiot and only making yourself feel good, not really in the person in question's interest.

So in many ways it's always going to be something putting someone else's mojo down in an anime convention.

[cactusmomma]

Dark Spellmaster, on 08 August 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Honestly, given what you stated I'm inclined to say that the girls were off the mark. However I think it would depend on how long the towel was, and if she was in her wig and such. I think it probably does fall under the risque catagory, mainly because she is wearing a towel, thus the implications are that said character probably is not clothed under the towel. Best bet, even with test shots of such a nature, would be to (if possible) block the shots from public viewers and then (if possible) link the shots to people that she knows will appriciate the images.

To me it would be fine, to someone else it would be seen as a mature photo since it is a grown woman in nothing but a towel. You didn't say if she had on a wig or something to idicate right away to a viewer that it was a costume and not a personal shot?

Sorry if I start rambling here. In the process of working on a costume, so mind is set to multi-task/ludicrous speed: plaid.

Should have clarified a bit more. The towel was to the girl's knees, she was sitting with in positions where there was no chance of anything private showing (or insinuating anything showing.. wait. I see a knee. Stoooooop the presses!), and given the size of her chest, she clearly had a bra on underneath for support (The girl is large up top, so it looks like she had to show a little top cleavage or risk exposing mid-thigh.. nothing big about that, we see more daily going down Michigan Avenue with business casual shirts!). She had the wig she was to use on, though, as it was only halfway finished/test shot-ing, it wasn't fully styled. She had a full description of the group that was being pulled together and other details, along with reference photos right with her test photos. I personally can see why she didn't stick it under a fanclub or whatnot..she is clearly in her 20's (25, to be exact), is an experienced cosplayer who wasn't planning on wearing the costume in public (The group was going to be done for a private shoot in a suite using their common lounging area.. so couches/kitchens/chairs), she isn't stick thin, but she isn't fat, and she made it clear that her daughter would never know the photos/group ever existed. I'm looking at the screens of the chewing outs right now..9 people commented: it looks like 2 people decided she was being a bad influence/model for her daughter (who I think is..4?), 3 others decided the photos were porn (even though there are skimpier costumes out there), only 1 person recognized it as a costume, 2 people read the description, and 8/9 people chewed her out for being fat (She looks to be about 10 lbs overweight for her height..which is about 5'10". Her chest makes her look heavier.).

This is not a healthy trend. These people are, for lack of a better term, slutshaming. They're not thinking of things on a complete level of a person's motivations, but are completely tearing a person to shreds because of the complexity of a piece of fabric or because of that person's body type not being that of a 7 year old asian boy's. Instead of taking a person's construction notes to heart, these people are ripping the cosser's esteem down. Maybe the cosplayer finally gained/lost 30 lbs or simply braved up enough to step into a new realm of style? Interestingly enough, I've been seeing this trend happening more across various age groups and countries. The 16-23 year age bracket + Germany/Philippines/parts of the US seem to be the most guilty of this sort of mentality: To cosplay, you have to have a flat stomach, completely symmetrical face, have a minimal of a D cup, and be under the age of 25. If you're under 16, you're too stupid and immature to do anything, but if you're over 25, you're old. If you have even that slight pouch with your tummy/are skinnyfat/have a tiny bit of baby fat... that makes you an obese cow and you should cover up from head to toe. Japan/Mexico/Brazil/other half of US? They love women with some meat on them. They like a bit, but not -too- much.. and while there seems to be a market for the 'moe'..ala females that look super cute and have hit the eternal 8th grade.. there's also a market for the 'mature' woman.

And you know.. I gotta run, but I'll come back to this later.

Edit: This has come up tonight.. a convention offered $200 and green room access to a well-known cosplayer to strip in a burlesque show. Cosplayer highly offended.

[Suika]

OnionKnight, on 23 May 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Mainly I just had people busting my chops for being either too tall or too old to be onion knight. I tried to act as boyish as I could most of the time, and I figure they were just kidding... I hope!

I saw your Onion knight. I thought it was fantastic!

[Mari_Queen_of_Fools]

The only time any one was ever blatantly rude was when my boyfriend and I were standing somewhere, as the Joker and Harley. We heard a girl scream "OMG it's the joker and Harley!" so we turn around and she gets up to us and then says "Oh, it's the WRONG Joker and Harley".

Oh. Well sorry to inconvenience you in anyway.

[antisocialist]

I've gotten into some pretty ugly scenes with people that like to blurt things out like that. Take solace in the fact that most of those people don't tend to be at all attractive anyway.

Yes, you do receive attention for cosplay, since cosplay is an innately attention-seeking behavior. With that said, normal rules of engagement among all others still apply.

[cactusmomma]

So now, what are your thoughts on websites uploading your photos without your permission? Do you ask politely for them to take them down? Do you say c'est la vie and brace it (even if it's a porn type site)?

I just got the most rude reply from the staff of cosplay.pheal.net. It took three attempts to get them to remove the photos and actually contacting their ISP. They were heavily suspicious and flat-out disgraceful.

[Uchihacest97]

I'm sure it's been brought up before because i'm pretty sure they are the worst offenders of rudeness but, Lolitas?
I swear they pull girls apart like ravenous wolves. And all the rules that they talk about. You guy know what I mean? The don't mix pinks with blacks, sweet lolita vs. Elegant Gothic Lolita. I swear at cons sometimes i don't want to wear the Lolita I bought in freaking Harajuku. HARAJUKU! because i don't want to defend myself to a bunch of teenagers that think they are better than everyone else because their parents can afford to buy them Moi-Meme-Moitie....

I know not all of them are like this. In fact most of them that I meet at the gatherings are extremely nice and equally hate how rude Lolitas are and how they give Convention lolitas a bad name. But we all know that bitchy group in the corner that doesn't talk or smile because they think they need to be real life porcelain dolls.