[TheRabbi]

Hey, forumites! We've changed the way lineups are going to work this year so that we can better manage the crowds and so the hotel is happier with us. I'll post this to the website in a few days and it will probably make its way to the program book, but I wanted to put in on the forums first in case there is anything that isn't clear and to respond to questions so that the final version that goes on the website has all those unclear bits reworded and resolved and such. So thanks for being my guinea pig group, and as always feel free to ask questions about this new policy.

Here's how lines will work this year:

• Lines do not start lining up until half an hour before the event opens for seating. There will be a sign at the head of the line to this effect. We will also (hopefully) tweet it.
• The head of the line starts on the outside of the hotel, just outside the revolving doors, and the line extends off to the west (down the sidewalk away from the hotel). If you were in the line for the Soap Bubble last year, the line started in the same place.
• Starting a half an hour (or probably a little before) before the event opens, we're going to clear out the area in front of the doors to Main Programming and start blocking people from getting into that area, instead directing them outside for the line.
• Fifteen minutes before the event opens, persons with special needs (who should not be in the line) will be escorted into Main Programming. (If you have special needs, see our Special Needs department, located with the Customer Service desk right in the Grand Foyer, as indicated on the map in the program book.)
• Ten minutes before the event opens, we will start bringing people in from the line outside in small chunks of 10 or 20 into a stanchion maze in the area in front of Main Programming. As we let people in from the stanchion maze, we will bring people in small chunks in to replace them in the maze. Again, we did something similar for Soap Bubble last year.
• If there is a line forming, we will ask smokers that normally congregate outside the revolving door to move a little away toward the benches and ashtrays the hotel has provided along the sidewalk between the revolving door and main entrance so their smoke does not disturb anyone with asthma or a similar condition.

Does this make sense? Is it clear? Are there questions about how it's going to work or why we're doing things a certain way? (Note, by the way, that the actual way we're doing lines isn't up for question; just my explanation of it is. This is the way we're doing lines this year. But I am happy to explain why if you're curious about an aspect of it.) The version in the program book will likely have a map/diagram and if I can get one for the website writeup, I'll do that too.

[Falling_Demon]

This seems like a great idea and maybe I'll actually try and go to main programming this year. XD
My question is this, how long before the event starts do the doors open for seating?

[TheRabbi]

Whatever time the event is scheduled for on the schedule in the program book is the time the doors should open. This particular fact is not a change from any previous year (barring events opening late because of technical difficulties and such).

[Valkyrie]

Rabbi, did you ever know that you're my hero? :3 I think that's an awesome method/explanation for the MP lines~

[Falling_Demon]

TheRabbi, on 13 March 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Whatever time the event is scheduled for on the schedule in the program book is the time the doors should open. This particular fact is not a change from any previous year (barring events opening late because of technical difficulties and such).

Ok, thanks.

[GITS SAC Motoko]

I really like this. I think this helps a lot so the lines (I know for the masq last year) was circled ALL THE WAY around the hotel, and we got there a half hour early.

But then, due to this process won't there be more people going to the same place at the same time that would cause crazy people overload in once spot? How will that work? I got a little confused about the revolving door part. ^^;;;

But everything else sounds great. ^^ Thanks.

[Lina]

You mean the revolving doors where the smokers are at? No thanks. ><

[Cherry_Wolf]

I think this is a great idea as long as

1- It's heavily enforced. Meaning people who end up camping out by the revolving doors close to the time to line up should be asked to go to the back of the line. Because we all know people won't listen to the rules and just hang around there in time for the line-up.

2- IRT doesn't let it go to their heads. Before anyone jumps to IRTs defense or jump on my side, I want to be perfectly clear here- I love IRT. I am thankful we have them and I think they do a marvelous job for what they have to deal with. But I have seen members who let things get to their heads. We are not pack animals nor cattle. We are human beings. Treat us like one. I understand you have to be a little pushy in main programming events. But you don't have to be disrespectful or let the power get to your head.

3- Make sure these rules are in the program book and in a large font sign in the general area. Cause if you don't, no one will listen.



As long as those three things are remembered, (mainly 1 and 3) I think this will work out well. But if either are ignored, it probably won't be that great. I hate to be a downer, but it takes one group of people to ruin it for everyone else and I can see that happening at ACen.

So in case of things starting early, I'll probably go view the area about an hour prior. Because I know people. I know how persistent they can be and people will probably be all, lining up will be outside... and a line will be started before you know it. With or without respecting the time.


ugh i need to go back to bed

This post has been edited by Cherry_Wolf: 13 March 2011 - 10:51 AM

[KnitChick]

Lina, on 13 March 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

You mean the revolving doors where the smokers are at? No thanks. ><

Rabbi pointed out there that the smokers should be in the designated smoking area, which is halfway between the revolving doors and the main front door of the hotel. There is a bench and ashtrays set up there, they were there last year but Smokey, Nabeshin, and about 3 other people were the only ones I saw actually using that spot. My hope is this year IRT can enforce *that* being the smoking area instead of the MP doors, since I am one of those asthmatics, and I can't walk through those doors without holding my breath.


Rabbi, I think this is very well said, and to me it's clear. I can't think of any changes you need to make in wording. Thank you!

[magicalgamer]

Cherry_Wolf, on 13 March 2011 - 10:51 AM, said:

1- It's heavily enforced. Meaning people who end up camping out by the revolving doors close to the time to line up should be asked to go to the back of the line. Because we all know people won't listen to the rules and just hang around there in time for the line-up.

I think trying to enforce the no line up before x pm. will be the challenge. I think the rules as written are clear, but as Cherry_Wolf said, how are you going to prevent groups from lining up on the sidewalk ahead of time. I mean, they could be just down the way and around the corner lined up and conveniently at the official time walk around the corner and be in line or have the line come to them.

Another thing, is there a way you can make sure that sidewalk remains clear for attendees that could care less about the main programming event with a long line. Last year, we were being yelled at by IRT members for walking on the street/entry road for the Hyatt because there was no room to walk on the sidewalk.

[TheRabbi]

For those complaining about the smoking area: you'll note I said in my original post that we'll be asking smokers to move away.

To be clear about the revolving doors: I mean the revolving doors along the side of the hotel, nearer to Main Programming, not those at the main entrance to the hotel. The line will start to the west of that door and wind down the sidewalk.

About lining up early: we will be heavily discouraging lineup before it is time to start. Certainly lineups should not start hours before.

About enforcement: we're going to be clear with our ops about customer service, which is a large part of our training this year (as discussed in other, more relevant threads) but lines are generally pretty easy to manage and we of course stress courtesy as part of our instructions for holding lines. Keeping the lines outside makes it easier for us to do this, in fact, since it takes lines out of the same space as normal con flow.

[Rukariou]

What will happen if weather doesn't permit? I don't know about Chicago but it rains almost 24/7 in Minnesota in May.

[Cherry_Wolf]

TheRabbi, on 13 March 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

About lining up early: we will be heavily discouraging lineup before it is time to start. Certainly lineups should not start hours before.

About enforcement: we're going to be clear with our ops about customer service, which is a large part of our training this year (as discussed in other, more relevant threads) but lines are generally pretty easy to manage and we of course stress courtesy as part of our instructions for holding lines. Keeping the lines outside makes it easier for us to do this, in fact, since it takes lines out of the same space as normal con flow.

I think the best route is to have an IRT member on patrol in the general area of where the line up starts and not let people just hang around until the time comes for line-up. Because you can discourage it. But this is a convention where people are always on sugar highs and kind of ignore rules. They'll line up regardless of it being discouraged or not. Hence why I say you should enforce it rather than just discourage it. (It's always been discouraged. But never truly enforced)


But I do agree. Having the line outside does help with the space in the con flow :3

[obakasan]

Any way you can put up a line of stanchions w/barrier tape outside along the sidewalk to divide the event line from those just passing through?

(And as I can't tell which compass point is which I might say "to the left of the doors rather than the west of the doors..." Of course by Sat night I'm not sure about which is right and left anymore either...)

[Alkaren Hyralt]

obakasan, on 13 March 2011 - 02:09 PM, said:

Any way you can put up a line of stanchions w/barrier tape outside along the sidewalk to divide the event line from those just passing through?

(And as I can't tell which compass point is which I might say "to the left of the doors rather than the west of the doors..." Of course by Sat night I'm not sure about which is right and left anymore either...)

He put in the part that people would be lining up on the sidewalk away from the hotel. To the left might be confusing to some people as well.

Rabbi, having worked with IRT on lines for a number of years and in MP I have some questions. Will there be someone from IRT around the time frame outside already to stop people from trying to line up hours earlier, and also to mark where the line will be starting? People I feel are going to be lining up for events like anime hell, and the soap bubble hours early no matter what you post I feel - what will you do to discourage this?

[TheRabbi]

Rukariou, on 13 March 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

What will happen if weather doesn't permit? I don't know about Chicago but it rains almost 24/7 in Minnesota in May.

Considering the line already has to stretch outside for most events, I would suggest you check the forecast and bring an umbrella. (We will note this in the website posting.) In the past, some lines have stayed inside, but we cannot do this anymore because the hotel and the fire marshal don't like us doing it.

Cherry_Wolf, on 13 March 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

I think the best route is to have an IRT member on patrol in the general area of where the line up starts and not let people just hang around until the time comes for line-up. Because you can discourage it. But this is a convention where people are always on sugar highs and kind of ignore rules. They'll line up regardless of it being discouraged or not. Hence why I say you should enforce it rather than just discourage it. (It's always been discouraged. But never truly enforced)

Alkaren Hyralt, on 13 March 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Rabbi, having worked with IRT on lines for a number of years and in MP I have some questions. Will there be someone from IRT around the time frame outside already to stop people from trying to line up hours earlier, and also to mark where the line will be starting? People I feel are going to be lining up for events like anime hell, and the soap bubble hours early no matter what you post I feel - what will you do to discourage this?

Taking care of this is part of our normal patrol duties and is under the purview of our normal operation. As a blanket statement, just let me say that we've got it taken care of.

obakasan, on 13 March 2011 - 02:09 PM, said:

Any way you can put up a line of stanchions w/barrier tape outside along the sidewalk to divide the event line from those just passing through?

(And as I can't tell which compass point is which I might say "to the left of the doors rather than the west of the doors..." Of course by Sat night I'm not sure about which is right and left anymore either...)

The stanchions would take up too much room on the sidewalk itself - that's the primary reason we can't do this. But a simple rule of thumb that states that people should be single-file on in the inner half of the sidewalk to allow for people to walk through on the outer half is what we're going for. And we'll be sure to be lenient when people are walking just in the street next to the curb - if we start enforcing that hard, it only means that Rosemont has come down on us to start telling you that you can't walk in the street.

As for compass points, as a general rule, the direction you face when you walk in the main entrance of the hotel, or when you walk up from the ground floor to the atrium floor, is north (or north-northeast, really).I guess technically the line kinda goes southwest from the revolving doors indicated, but the general idea is that it follows the sidewalk in a westerly direction.

[Alkaren Hyralt]

TheRabbi, on 13 March 2011 - 04:30 PM, said:

As a blanket statement, just let me say that we've got it taken care of.

Works for me.

[vika838]

[quote name='TheRabbi' timestamp='1300041488' post='983191']
For those complaining about the smoking area: you'll note I said in my original post that we'll be asking smokers to move away.
/quote]

A question: will smoking be allowed in the MP line? It seems clear from your description that there is a designated smoking area, and that smokers will be asked to move away from the doors, however, I'm not clear if this means smoking will be confined to that area. I know that no one around us left their place in line last year to smoke in that area, and that this made the main program line a problem for some of us asthmatics last year. Thank you for the clarification!

This post has been edited by vika838: 13 March 2011 - 06:53 PM

[Cherry_Wolf]

vika838, on 13 March 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

A question: will smoking be allowed in the MP line? It seems clear from your description that there is a designated smoking area, and that smokers will be asked to move away from the doors, however, I'm not clear if this means smoking will be confined to that area. I know that no one around us left their place in line last year to smoke in that area, and that this made the main program line a problem for some of us asthmatics last year. Thank you for the clarification!

People were smoking in line? With a bunch of people around them... ._. do some people even think that there may be people who are allergic to cigarette smoke? I know there are tons of asthmatics that go to ACen, but I bet there are some people who are allergic to it as well.


Staff, please tell this will not be allowed this year if it was allowed previous years. I understand smokers have an addiction and all, but come on... there is no need to smoke in a line where someone in front of or behind you may have a condition that is irritated by cigarette smoke.

[vika838]

Cherry_Wolf, on 13 March 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

People were smoking in line? With a bunch of people around them... ._. do some people even think that there may be people who are allergic to cigarette smoke? I know there are tons of asthmatics that go to ACen, but I bet there are some people who are allergic to it as well.


Staff, please tell this will not be allowed this year if it was allowed previous years. I understand smokers have an addiction and all, but come on... there is no need to smoke in a line where someone in front of or behind you may have a condition that is irritated by cigarette smoke.

Yes, I have a severely allergic friend who has to fore go MP each year until the line reaches inside, sometimes missing out on events completely, because there is inevitably someone with 10 feet of us smoking in line. That said, I don't know that there has ever been a formal restriction on smoking in line, and I understand that while waiting in line for several hours people would want/need to light up. I'm not holding out for a ban on smoking in line, but mainly would like the wording in the Rabbi's statement regarding smoking clarified. Again, thank you!

[TheRabbi]

The wording in the original post has nothing to do with people smoking in line, only with people who usually hang out outside that revolving door to smoke.

There's no policy per se against smoking in the line, but it would be heavily discouraged. It seems we may have to consider having a policy against smoking in the line. (Making that policy happen is slightly above my pay grade; I will present it to the appropriate people and get back to you.)

If the policy doesn't go through (for whatever reason) and you have an issue with a smoker in line who won't stop even after you've asked him to, grab an IRT op and that op should be able to put the con's weight behind asking the smoker to stop. Otherwise, if you're asthmatic or allergic or something, it can count as harassing a congoer or endangering a congoer's safety or something similar, and part of our job is to prevent and rectify those things.

[Maze]

Definitely sounds like an improvement over previous years. I know when I've gone to Anime Hell before, unless you got there at the very minimum of an hour and a half before the event, then there would be a enormous line in front of you.

Do you have a map you can post with 'This is where line starts' on it? I've looked at maps of the hotel and done street view of the hotel on google maps but the only revolving doors I know of and remember are the main Hyatt revolving door. So I'm not sure where this revolving door you are talking about is located at.

Also, just so I have this clear, say I want to go to Anime Hell. I go down there no earlier than 30 mins before the event and get in line at the designated line spot hoping alot of ppl loitering around the area of the line before the 30 min mark didn't suddenly drift in to form a line a mile long. Wait in line like normal, and proceed into the event as normal?

Oh, these new line rules. Are they for Main programming only or do they apply to other events were lines have a tendency to form up that are not in the Main Programming area of the convention?

[TheRabbi]

Maze, on 14 March 2011 - 01:56 PM, said:

Do you have a map you can post with 'This is where line starts' on it? I've looked at maps of the hotel and done street view of the hotel on google maps but the only revolving doors I know of and remember are the main Hyatt revolving door. So I'm not sure where this revolving door you are talking about is located at.

Here is a link to Google Streetview, aimed at the part of the hotel with the revolving door I'm talking about. There will be a diagram on the website when this gets posted there. (Note that this is a dry run so we can make sure the version on the website is as clear as possible.) The diagram will also be in the program book.

Quote

Also, just so I have this clear, say I want to go to Anime Hell. I go down there no earlier than 30 mins before the event and get in line at the designated line spot hoping alot of ppl loitering around the area of the line before the 30 min mark didn't suddenly drift in to form a line a mile long. Wait in line like normal, and proceed into the event as normal?

Oh, these new line rules. Are they for Main programming only or do they apply to other events were lines have a tendency to form up that are not in the Main Programming area of the convention?

We'll be directing you into the event in small groups, shuffling you into a maze of stanchions inside the hotel first and then directing you into the Grand Ballroom.

These line rules are only for Main Programming, since they deal specifically with where the line for Main Programming goes. They do not apply to autograph sessions or popular panels in other rooms or the registration line or any other line. They are about putting the line for that room somewhere different than it has been in past years, not about preventing people from lining up super-early for events (though we will discourage that to a point).

[MsLovelyCookie]

The only problem I have from the lines last year is the Soap Bubble line. I know that it wrapped up along the perimeter of the hotel and I started at the other side of the revolving doors. After an hour I saw less IRT and the line getting wider and wider. My group was finally able to move to get to the side that has the revolving doors and it was on this side that the the line was more in control since it was on a side walk.

What can be done about the line at the back of the hotel???

Oh and I hated passing the smokers when I went to the Soap Bubble can they be placed at the other side for the Duration of the event???

[Pashy-chan]

So... Say congoers aren't forming a line ahead of time per-say... but are lingering around waiting fo rthe alotted time to enter main programming.. How exactly would this be prevented, or would it be prevented? I ask this as I understand that there will be rules set in place to prevent lines from forming, but I wonder how this will help with crowd control.. Like Alkaren stated, I know people who line up 2-hours prior to almost every Main Event (I am one of them.. xD) @.@;; I understand that there will be rules inforced for those who are camping out around the doors.. but that doesn't stop people standing and waiting and crowding around in the general area.. I will likely be one of them.. (;.; I'm just being realistic.. Sorry..)

I'm rambling on with my thoughts here, but my main point is this. With the people who are use to waiting in line for hours itching and ready to get in, accompanied with all the people who arrive between that time and the moment doors open, wouldn't there be a sudden influx of people, and how would IRT handle this plethra of people rushing to get to the same place? Would the small groups be deployed quick enough in order to prevent a long line from starting or?... (And if you've already adressed this, and perhaps I didn't understand, I do appologize...)

And as for the smoking thing.. I must agree with Miss Cookie.. I feel that even the designated smoking area is still too close to the revolving doors... I know for me, as someone with asthma, I can't stay even close to that area for more than a few minutes before choking up.. It's another reason I hop in line ahead of time each year.. So I may avoid standing near the area. I think if they were to go across the lot, or if even the area was simply off limits for the 30 minutes the line in which the line is moving... it would really help those who can't handle the cigarette smoke.

This post has been edited by Pashy-chan: 14 March 2011 - 08:45 PM

[TheRabbi]

So the main points that I'm seeing people say are this:

I don't want people next to me in the line smoking. I don't want people near the revolving doors smoking.
We will tell people in the line not to smoke. The people near the revolving doors will be asked to move further towards the main entrance to the hotel, where they are supposed to be anyway. That should be far enough away.

So there's going to be no line until 30 minutes before the event and then people will start lining up? How are you possibly going to make that happen?
The short answer to this is: we're not. People will probably continue to line up early. But:

• By having all the lines for Main Programming be in one place, people can't line up for (say) the Soap Bubble while (say) the line for the Masquerade is still there.
• We will be walking through as part of our normal patrol and discouraging people from standing in line there. There's only so much of the area we can keep clear, but we will do our best. We simply don't have the manpower - or the space - to keep the line's whole area totally free until the T-30 minute mark. If people want to linger, they're going to have to linger in a nearby-but-not-where-the-line-is-supposed-to-be place.

But please trust me when I say we've got this aspect pretty well under control. We're realists over here in IRT management as well, and we're pretty familiar with congoer behavior, so all the things you've been bringing up have been discussed at one point or another. It may not be perfect, but we're aiming as high as we can.

But I want to come 29 minutes before and get up near the head of the line.
Well, speaking realistically, that probably won't happen. But this way you shouldn't have to come 2 hours before just to get into the event.

[Denka]

MsLovelyCookie, on 14 March 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

The only problem I have from the lines last year is the Soap Bubble line. I know that it wrapped up along the perimeter of the hotel and I started at the other side of the revolving doors. After an hour I saw less IRT and the line getting wider and wider. My group was finally able to move to get to the side that has the revolving doors and it was on this side that the the line was more in control since it was on a side walk.

What can be done about the line at the back of the hotel???

Oh and I hated passing the smokers when I went to the Soap Bubble can they be placed at the other side for the Duration of the event???

I completely understand what you are saying Ms. Cookie, but like Rabbi said, we have very limited staff. We can do our best to make sure that the line stays consistent throughout, but think about how long it takes to walk all the way around the hotel. Now imagine having to walk back and forth for 1-2 hours. Its not impossible, but realistically hard to do.
It would really help us if everyone could try to keep themselves "in-check" and remember line rules, but I understand that people get excited right before the big events. So just do your best and have fun.

[SeikoMiwarui]

I am very glad that you guys are addressing the lines this year! I know in past years, I have personally had to go about 2 hours before Anime Hell in order to get a good spot. However, that plan did backfire, I think, in 2009 ish. We were all waiting patiently, and then they moved us outside. Alright, I can understand that. But all of a sudden, about 15~20 minutes before Anime Hell, all of us outside who had been waiting for a decent amount of time see that there were people on the inside getting to go into the room first! Let me just say I was heavily displeased =/. I realize, having gone 2 hours before was kind of crazy, but the fact that they moved us outside and then forgot about us kind of agitated me XD.

I also agree with Cherry_Wolf about the point that the IRT shouldn't throw their weight around. It wasn't bad the first two years I went to ACEN (07, and 08) but it seems each year, people keep getting more and more bitchy >_>;. I know that ACEN keeps growing and that calls for more attention to trying to get people to cooperate, but man...there were definitely a few times that it was less than pleasant.

All in all, I think that this should work out fine! I'm worried, though, about the 15 minutes before the panel entry. I just don't think that might be enough time to get everyone into the room, especially larger events like Anime Hell and the Soap Bubble. Although, perhaps I could be mistaken. I'm just afraid that you might run into the problem that there's quite a number of people (I think those rooms can only safely hold 500~1000 or so...? maybe more?) and wont be able to start the panels on time. I guess if you can figure out the math correctly, it would work. I'm just too tired and I feel that much of this post seems like a "Blah blah blah" XD


tl;dr summary: Had bad experiences with lines. Excited to see how this line format starts. Worried that 10 minutes won't be enough to get everyone in the rooms and have panel started on time (mostly for bigger events)

[LC Asuka]

*takes notes of IRT's plan for line control*
Thank. You. Rabbi.

From what was initially posted, as well as the responses from various questions, it seems as though this might run a bit smoother than in years past. Yes, we're still going to have people loitering around the line-forming area, but quite bluntly that can't really be prevented fully. I'm pretty sure this was mentioned already, but make sure these new rules are posted IN VERY LARGE/ANNOYINGLY COLORFUL TYPE, otherwise we'll be bound to get more people that have no idea what's going on with the lines this year than people that will know where to go (well...we'll still get the clueless people, but clear, obvious signs should cut back on that a bit). My other suggestion is to have the stanchions within the Hyatt actually leading to the revolving door (as long as it's within fire dept. rules). It might be trivial, but if the stanchions just start where they generally did in years past, there's going to be plenty of people that might try and disregard the outside line in favor of the free, open stanchion,

My biggest fears are not so much if this strategy will work, but rather if word about these new changes will get out far enough for a good percentage of people have at least some knowledge of the new MP line policies. Either way, I'm glad to see IRT again helping us out with these updates (seriously, thank you ), and I look forward to seeing how this goes!

This post has been edited by LC Asuka: 19 April 2011 - 01:10 AM

[TheRabbi]

Seiko, don't worry about getting everyone into the events on time. That's our responsibility as IRT, and we coordinate with Main Programming to make sure that happens. They won't start the event until the whole line is in (unless it's the Soap Bubble) and we will get everyone in in a timely manner.

Asuka, we will have big clear signage (I just made the signs and sent them to be printed) and we have a strategy in place for making sure people don't try to line up inside.

I'm working on a diagram to detail this for the visual learners out there, but I have a lot on my plate at the moment, so that may not get done soon. (Sorry!)