[Keiichi-chan]

Lina, on 18 February 2011 - 10:26 AM, said:

Eh. He was mature and didn't fuss about it. He didn't cause a scene. He didn't get all flustered and yell, "I'm not wrestling a girl. Girls aren't allowed to wrestle." He chose to not wrestle a girl and who are we to judge? He didn't say that girls can't wrestle or shouldn't be allowed to. He himself did not want to because of his faith. There are so many controversial things out there and this is something small, at least to me. I don't see this as a big deal and people who are making it out to be should just get over it.

In Judaism, at weddings at least, women and men cannot dance with each other and are in separate areas. Luckily my boyfriend wasn't invited so I wasn't really disappointed. I just conversed with my family and ignored the other 400+ people that I didn't know. XD Yes, there were about 400 or so people at the wedding. >>

Also in Judaism, women and men who are dating are not allowed to touch each other, meaning no holding hands, no hugging, no kissing and they aren't allowed to be alone together unless they are in a public place like a restaurant.

@Prayer Police: I prefer Yan Yan over Pocky as well. lol

i actually think this is a really good point, too.
i mean, i don't disagree with it, but it's not like he made a big deal and got on a soapbox and said wrestling a girl is wrong overall, just that it was wrong for him.

[Lina]

Keiichi-chan, on 18 February 2011 - 07:03 PM, said:

i actually think this is a really good point, too.
i mean, i don't disagree with it, but it's not like he made a big deal and got on a soapbox and said wrestling a girl is wrong overall, just that it was wrong for him.

Exactly. He was being nice about it.

[chibiskuld]

I hearby change topic of this thread to delicious foreign snacks.

[S1NN3R]

Keiichi-chan, on 18 February 2011 - 12:15 AM, said:

he cited religion as part of the reason for not participating, but..what religion is he?? it's definitely not what i would consider chivalry because of the inherent condescension that goes along with saying, 'i won't wrestle you because i might hurt you.'

high school wrestling is NOT an especially violent or dangerous sport.
i though it was a funny joke, but people are actually assuming he would have lost the bout?? the least sexist thing he could have done was go all out and try to pound her into the mat as if she were the burliest-looking guy, because that would have shown respect for her as a worthy opponent.

a modern definition of chivalry is kind of hard to come up with considering treating a women any special way that could possibly denote weakness is construed as sexist; by our common, modern societal standards, chivalry overall is sexist, isn't it? that being said, i think chivalry has more to do with being especially polite and gentlemanly to women, not going out of your way to not do any harm them at all cost. a real gentlemen would pile drive a lady if she threw a drink in his girlfriend's face or something, wouldn't he?

I agree with you 99.9%, Though it kinda depends on both people on the mat. When I wrestled, I dislocated peoples joints and broke a female's arm (in State). It depends on the skill of both to make it safe. If one doesn't make the grade, they will inevitably get hurt.

For the record, I felt horrible afterwards but only against the female. Guilt doesn't make you a sexist

[ExentricSage]

When people complain that chivalry is dead, I add 'good riddance'. The idea that women should be treated differently and held to different standards is so outdated!

If a guy just cites his religion, and nothing else, ok. That's on him. As long as he does not impose his beliefs on others. But he said the following, which weas condescending, IMO.

"However, wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times. As a matter of conscience and faith, I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner. It is unfortunate that I have been placed in a situation not seen in most other high school sports in Iowa."

Uh huh. He finds it unfortunate that he had to make this choice in the first place. In other words, unfortunate that girls made it into the tournament unlike other high school sports in Iowa.

If he wanted to respect them, he should have simply said 'religion' and kept his mouth shut. It's not their fault his personal faith involves treating women as weaklings.

This post has been edited by ExentricSage: 22 February 2011 - 03:04 AM

[ExentricSage]

chibiskuld, on 18 February 2011 - 09:58 AM, said:

I'd say neither. If he may have felt he'd be to distracted by the fact she was girl. He probably felt that could lead to him making mistakes, or be worried about where it was appropriate to touch her. Thus where the religious part of it probably came from.

And TekoMuto here put it probably best, He probably felt that wrestling a girl would feel to intimate.

I think the only reason girls have to wrestle boys in this situation is because there isn't enough girls into the sport.

I mean it's a timeless issue, gender is just distracting.

Personally, I don't believe in 'separate but equal'. If a woman can hold her own against a man in the same sport, then she should not be barred from competing, period. If women can hold their own against males, then there is no need for a female only alternative team, as it would be based on pure prejudice. Why should women be discriminated against in order to satisfy the hang ups of men? If a man can not focus and see his opponent as an opponent, instead of as a sex object or gender stereotype, that weakness is his own fault, and the resulting disadvantage, likewise, is his own fault.

This post has been edited by ExentricSage: 22 February 2011 - 03:22 AM

[Kaay-chan]

ExentricSage, on 22 February 2011 - 02:53 AM, said:

When people complain that chivalry is dead, I add 'good riddance'. The idea that women should be treated differently and held to different standards is so outdated!

The thing is, I believe that there's a fine line between sexism and chivalry. Sexism is when a guy thinks he needs to do stuff for a girl because she's "weak." Chivalry, I believe, is when a guy does something for a girl because he cares about her and is just an all around decent guy.

So basically...

"I don't want to fight you! You're a girl! You'll get hurt!" = Sexist.

"I don't want to fight you! I care about you!" = Chivalrous

Chivalry should leave a girl feeling special, not insulted. What this guy did was insulting, and cheapened this girl's "victory." If he was a real fighter, he wouldn't have seen her as a girl but as an opponent. What they say in most anime is true: as soon as two people enter a fight, gender no longer see gender, only another fighter.

Then again, maybe I read too many manga like Rurouni Kenshin and Saint Seiya and stuff that have strong females who do more than just uselessly sit in a corner during fights cheering on the male protagonist/ love interest/ whatever and crying a river when he gets a paper cut....=/

[The Fujoshi]

Kaay-chan, on 22 February 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

Then again, maybe I read too many manga like Rurouni Kenshin and Saint Seiya and stuff that have strong females who do more than just uselessly sit in a corner during fights cheering on the male protagonist/ love interest/ whatever and crying a river when he gets a paper cut....=/

Add Princess Peach and the appeal to a lot of video games in Japan with the exception of Dragon Quest somewhat and certain Square Enix games (NOT KH.)

I thought Kaoru was like this though....she was kidnapped a few times and Chickified I know Sakura IS THIS which is why I stopped reading Naruto.

lol I'm the opposite though I happen to dislike constantly fan service without beefcake >w< I mean a girl can only look at pansu shots so many times before you get tired of it or breasts.

[Kaay-chan]

The Fujoshi, on 23 February 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

Add Princess Peach and the appeal to a lot of video games in Japan with the exception of Dragon Quest somewhat and certain Square Enix games (NOT KH.)

I thought Kaoru was like this though....she was kidnapped a few times and Chickified I know Sakura IS THIS which is why I stopped reading Naruto.

lol I'm the opposite though I happen to dislike constantly fan service without beefcake >w< I mean a girl can only look at pansu shots so many times before you get tired of it or breasts.

Hey, Kaoru can hold her own in a fight; she even took down one of the Juppongatana, remember? And she said to him that when she enters a fight she sees neither male or female, simply the opponent in front of her. Or something along those lines...

[The Fujoshi]

Kaay-chan, on 23 February 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

Hey, Kaoru can hold her own in a fight; she even took down one of the Juppongatana, remember? And she said to him that when she enters a fight she sees neither male or female, simply the opponent in front of her. Or something along those lines...

Dunno haven't seen RK in a while so I can't really go against or defend this.

I do remember a lot of dumb fans used to roast her because she couldn't hold her own compared to misao or something stupid. I found nothing wrong with her back then.

I think it was because of the whole Dragon Ball Z era so you don't see a lot of girl fighters.

[Aiko☆Noble]

I've gotta say I found Kaoru quite irritating. XD

Sometime way in the beginning, when Kenshin was fighting Jinei (to rescue the kidnapped Kaoru ._.),
he was fighting all tough, and Jinei was trying to get him to turn back into Battousai, Kaoru was
basically flailing about, crying out "Kenshin~!" every five seconds and making me want to beat the
crap out of her. Honestly, what a stereotypical girl role, sitting there waiting to be rescued and
squealing out whenever the guy gets hurt. >_>

I liked Tomoe way better. XD

/RK rant

[Keiichi-chan]

kaay's definition of chivalry is pretty romantic-sounding..>_>

lol, my favorite female character in rk was definitely misao, the loud, obnoxious ninja girl. she could handle herself well, and i just found her relentless and aggressive fangirling endearing for whatever reason. plus, her design was one of my favorites.

This post has been edited by Keiichi-chan: 23 February 2011 - 06:44 PM

[sweetbeanpaste]

It's sexist, of course. She came there with the earnest desire to compete, and was denied the opportunity to do so by the one who was supposed to be her opponent. I always tell my guy friends that if I ever genuinely punched one of them, I'd expect a punch back. If they held back because I'm a woman, I'd be PISSED. Naturally, I WOULDN'T hit any of them because 1. they're tougher than me and 2. I love them, but I appreciate the fact that they'd respect me enough to pummel me.