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What. The. Hell. Because Scott Pilgrim just isn't controversial enough.

#1 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:12 PM

I can't believe this.

The End of the Best Friend

Gist of the story: School psychotics psychiatrists and counselors are, in some places in the US, discouraging kids to have one or a few best friends and instead "spread the love" equally amongst all the students. Read the article for further laughs and a counterpoint done better than I can.

So let's see...I'm supposed to (or rather, my kids, if I ever have any, are supposed to) make friends with everybody, and not have one best friend? Hey. When I was growing up, I had one really good friend. He kept me sane during the year my dad was deployed overseas (yes, the military had crappy assignments during the Cold War too), and visited me when I moved 1500 miles away, and I visited him. We played GI Joe, watched bad movies, went fishing, and generally grew up together.

Yes, granted, they're afraid that if two students get too close, it'll be Columbine all over again. Personally, I think having a close friend prevents more Columbines. I know that having a close friend or two kept me from going Klebold during my time in school.

This torques me off, maybe irrationally, but dammit. Not to sound like an old dinosaur (ROAR), but when I was growing up, we did stay out until the streetlights came on. We didn't have scheduled "play dates"--that sounds like a meeting at a stripper club. During the summer or on the weekends, I picked up my phone, dialed my buddy, and said, "Hey, dude. Get your Joes and your Transformers together and have your mom bring you over. Mom just got me Optimus Prime and he's going to kick your Devastator's butt."

Sure, we did stupid crap--I broke his collar bone playing football, and I broke my own arm climbing into a treehouse. Somehow we haven't needed therapy. (My friend did become a Marine, granted. :pirate: )

After reading this article, I'm reminded of a line from the Incredibles: "Then everyone will be special...which means no one will be."

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This post has been edited by sentinel28a: 17 June 2010 - 11:13 PM

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#2 User is offline   Kii 

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:16 PM

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:17 PM

The higher the psychiatrist rate, the higher the insanity rate. Coincidence?
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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:19 PM

Clearly everyone is trying to kill everyone else, all they need is an excuse.

Actually I really hate things like this because I had to go through a lot of trouble during high school because they thought I'd Colombine it up or whatever just because I was shy.
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Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:33 AM

I really think its one of your first point thats key. They're trying to stop more violence in the schools. Its a move that benefits the school community more than the individual students. Plus theres probably some study about developing better social skills if you talk to more people. Which is probably true, but while social skills are important, it seems to almost be the absolute factor in most of these studies. All kids must develop in a normal fashion.
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Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:56 AM

Their trying to break the age old code of Bro's? Best Buds? Your wingman at the winter formal? What are they, totally absorbed thinking they know best and that changing things will bring about change in school violence?

As someone who went to therapy as a kid, and who was sent to the counselors office a lot in school I think they're really going the wrong way about it. Everyone has that one friend that they confide in, that they consider someone they can trust almost implicitly with anything. It's having a friend like that who is there that helps people through the rough patches, and trust me, I sadly didn't meet my best friend until my last year of high school, it sucked not having one for so long and having one really helped turn my perspective on people around.

If someone is going to shoot up a school, then I think that the fact that it's because they didn't have enough "friends" is the cause, cuz even one really good friend can stop that bullet from ever being fired if he's there ( and if he's not on the same mind set of the other person ).

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:20 AM

I'm really picky about the people I like. I'm never going to have a large number of friends because I don't WANT a large number of friends. While I would have appreciated it if I hadn't been bullied as much as a kid, I sure as hell wouldn't have enjoyed being forced to be friends with everyone.
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#8 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:16 AM

View Postsentinel28a, on 17 June 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

"play dates"--that sounds like a meeting at a stripper club.


Can I quote that, like, on facebook? Please? Please please please please? >o>

*cough*

okay, maybe this was just because I went to private school (there were only, like 60 of us in our grade, and I'm rounding up a bit), but my school did something like this. I remember being chastised by a teacher in first because I was "keeping secrets," when a friend of mine found out I had a bit of a crush on a class mate and I told her not to tell anyone. :rolleyes: We were all supposed to be the best of buds and all love each other. But there were cliques, and the fact that we were encouraged to all be friends caused those of use with fewer friends to keep trying to fit in with groups we might have otherwise been wise enough to give up on years ago. And beyond that, a conversation I had a number of times went something like this:

Person 1: "You don't have any friends."

Person 2: "Yes I do!"

Person 1: "Oh yeah? How many?"

Guess which person I was. :lol: <_<

In the end, none of those people were really my freinds. I only really keep in touch with one "friend" from grade school, and I consider her to be less of a friend and more of a "acquaintance with whom I share common interests and experiences."

The reality is, by saying, "okay, kids, remember, you're all friends now," these schools and camps are setting the more vulnerable kids up for the kind of pain and betrayal that I personally experienced and wouldn't wish on anyone. There's nothing like growing up with the same group of people from kindergarten until 8th grade, and not knowing about a party until the following Monday (I wouldn't have gone anyway, but an invitation would have been nice). Being passively bullied by people you used to see as friends hurts a lot more and leaves much deeper scars than just being bullied by people right from the beginning.

This post has been edited by Kaay-chan: 18 June 2010 - 02:19 AM

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 05:27 AM

I'm going to be the sore thumb and say it doesn't sound like that bad an idea? Maybe the reasoning behind it all, but the idea of having only one person to rely on for anything has always seemed a little...foolish. If that person ever left, that's a pretty big hole to fill up. If anything, the focus should be on teaching healthy social skills, ones which will actually prepare them for the world they don't really show in schooling.

Me, I wish I had made the effort and met other people than my best friends (heck, I wish I opened up to them better than I did, but that's another story). Learning to cope with others is essential. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be close to a few people, because we need that to. If we shared ourselves with everyone, we would be in another social nightmare altogether. It's all about balance. ;)

#10 User is offline   redx1 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:19 AM

Well, it is about balance. You want to have key people that you consider your best friend. You also want to socialize with a wide group of people.

The psychologists in this article take things WAAY to the extreme though. You don't want to have only the "convenient" friends. You need to have someone that stands out from them all.

The article just sounds like psychologists pushing their agendas. I wouldn't take it too seriously.
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#11 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:37 PM

View PostJoeSomebody2, on 18 June 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

I'm going to be the sore thumb and say it doesn't sound like that bad an idea? Maybe the reasoning behind it all, but the idea of having only one person to rely on for anything has always seemed a little...foolish. If that person ever left, that's a pretty big hole to fill up. If anything, the focus should be on teaching healthy social skills, ones which will actually prepare them for the world they don't really show in schooling.

Me, I wish I had made the effort and met other people than my best friends (heck, I wish I opened up to them better than I did, but that's another story). Learning to cope with others is essential. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be close to a few people, because we need that to. If we shared ourselves with everyone, we would be in another social nightmare altogether. It's all about balance. ;)



I think the problem here is the overemphasis on only having one best friend. I have four people who I consider to be my best friends.
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#12 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:42 PM

View PostJoeSomebody2, on 18 June 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

I'm going to be the sore thumb and say it doesn't sound like that bad an idea? Maybe the reasoning behind it all, but the idea of having only one person to rely on for anything has always seemed a little...foolish. If that person ever left, that's a pretty big hole to fill up. If anything, the focus should be on teaching healthy social skills, ones which will actually prepare them for the world they don't really show in schooling.

Me, I wish I had made the effort and met other people than my best friends (heck, I wish I opened up to them better than I did, but that's another story). Learning to cope with others is essential. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be close to a few people, because we need that to. If we shared ourselves with everyone, we would be in another social nightmare altogether. It's all about balance. ;)


True, but I think kids should have the choice. Right now, these psychs are trying to take away the choice and force people to make friends with people they might not want anything to do with--and vice-versa. That's what I don't like.

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

i can't believe that subtitle bated me into reading this poorly-written article about nonsense.
D:

people are individuals, there's no definite way to totally prevent kids growing up this way or that way or
everyone would do it. the best prevention method is parenting, not friendship fascism.

#14 User is offline   Lina 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:08 PM

In elementary school, for the most part, wasn't everyone friends with everyone? lol

I remember inviting like everyone in my class for my birthday parties and a lot of them, I didn't even talk to after elementary school. lol

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View PostFoolish Humon, on 13 June 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Ladies ladies ladies, if you find a man whose only concern about a woman is her breast size, he just may be dumb enough to believe you if you say you have Ds when you have Bs. :thumbup:

#15 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:13 PM

View PostLina, on 18 June 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:

In elementary school, for the most part, wasn't everyone friends with everyone? lol

I remember inviting like everyone in my class for my birthday parties and a lot of them, I didn't even talk to after elementary school. lol



I did that too, but that's because the school made us invite the entire class to our birthday parties. <_<
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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:26 PM

View PostKaay-chan, on 18 June 2010 - 02:13 PM, said:

I did that too, but that's because the school made us invite the entire class to our birthday parties. <_<

"Its your birthday? Well I hope you brought enough cupcakes for the whole class!"

WTF! Its My bday! YOU should be giving ME cupcakes D:

Never understood that whole thing either really. When your a kid its all about the entire class and the neighborhood kids and as you get older you start to pick them off until your left with your good friends and usually a best friend ( or maybe their all best friends for you? )
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#17 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:43 PM

View PostTaiyakiOni, on 18 June 2010 - 02:26 PM, said:

"Its your birthday? Well I hope you brought enough cupcakes for the whole class!"

WTF! Its My bday! YOU should be giving ME cupcakes D:

Never understood that whole thing either really. When your a kid its all about the entire class and the neighborhood kids and as you get older you start to pick them off until your left with your good friends and usually a best friend ( or maybe their all best friends for you? )


Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. :P

And then if you had any left over, you got to go around the school giving them to the teachers until you ran out.
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#18 User is offline   Lina 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:46 PM

View PostKaay-chan, on 18 June 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. :P

And then if you had any left over, you got to go around the school giving them to the teachers until you ran out.

Yup! I remember that.
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View PostFoolish Humon, on 13 June 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Ladies ladies ladies, if you find a man whose only concern about a woman is her breast size, he just may be dumb enough to believe you if you say you have Ds when you have Bs. :thumbup:

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:49 PM

View PostFlyingElf, on 18 June 2010 - 12:33 AM, said:

I really think its one of your first point thats key. They're trying to stop more violence in the schools. Its a move that benefits the school community more than the individual students. Plus theres probably some study about developing better social skills if you talk to more people. Which is probably true, but while social skills are important, it seems to almost be the absolute factor in most of these studies. All kids must develop in a normal fashion.

Violence in school - especially on the scale of something like Columbine - is a result of bad parenting, not having best friends. This like trying to treat cancer with a punch in the face, the treatment has nothing to do with the problem, and certainly won't make things any better.

I agree with the actual psychologists that were quoted later in the article.

Quote

“Do we want to encourage kids to have all sorts of superficial relationships? Is that how we really want to rear our children?” asked Brett Laursen, a psychology professor at Florida Atlantic University whose specialty is peer relationships. “Imagine the implication for romantic relationships. We want children to get good at leading close relationships, not superficial ones.”

Many psychologists believe that close childhood friendships not only increase a child’s self-esteem and confidence, but also help children develop the skills for healthy adult relationships — everything from empathy, the ability to listen and console, to the process of arguing and making up. If children’s friendships are choreographed and sanitized by adults, the argument goes, how is a child to prepare emotionally for both the affection and rejection likely to come later in life?

“No one can teach you what a great friend is, what a fair-weather friend is, what a treacherous and betraying friend is except to have a great friend, a fair-weather friend or a treacherous and betraying friend,” said Michael Thompson, a psychologist who is an author of the book “Best Friends, Worst Enemies: Understanding the Social Lives of Children.”

I want my kids to grow up to be real people, not robots who don't know how to truly love and care for another. You don't get that if you look at everyone equally. It's sad but true, a fact of life, people play favorites. Maybe instead of marrying a single woman, I should just get together with every person in the country, I wouldn't want anyone to feel left out or anything afterall.

I don't want my kids sheltered so that they're punched in the face by life when they get out on their own, I want them to at least be able to deal with people in the real world. Not everyone is going to like you, suck it up, get over it, move on.

View PostJoeSomebody2, on 18 June 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

I'm going to be the sore thumb and say it doesn't sound like that bad an idea? Maybe the reasoning behind it all, but the idea of having only one person to rely on for anything has always seemed a little...foolish. If that person ever left, that's a pretty big hole to fill up. If anything, the focus should be on teaching healthy social skills, ones which will actually prepare them for the world they don't really show in schooling.

Me, I wish I had made the effort and met other people than my best friends (heck, I wish I opened up to them better than I did, but that's another story). Learning to cope with others is essential. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be close to a few people, because we need that to. If we shared ourselves with everyone, we would be in another social nightmare altogether. It's all about balance. ;)

People move, people have fights, and some unfortunate times, people die. How are you supposed to be able to deal with that if you don't have - and yes, sometimes lose - those close bonds? The friendships they're pushing are superficial, that is not a good way to grow up. Who are you going to rely on when things get tough? Would you really be able to truly confide in someone if they weren't truly close to you?

Part of growing up is learning to deal with the curveballs that life tosses out you, preventing kids from experiencing the bad times does nothing but make them less prepared for real life, not more. You can't raise a kid in the plastic bubble. You yourself are able to look back and evaluate your life, and I would hope that it allows you to try to make improvements in your life today. You wouldn't be able to do that if you hadn't struggled at some point. If the teachers are doing everything for you, you can't speak for yourself, and you won't grow up to be a stronger individual and a better person.
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Posted 18 June 2010 - 06:25 PM

View Postwrexness, on 18 June 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

Violence in school - especially on the scale of something like Columbine - is a result of bad parenting, not having best friends. This like trying to treat cancer with a punch in the face, the treatment has nothing to do with the problem, and certainly won't make things any better.


I agree, but remember in today's society, nothing is anybody's fault. You can't blame the parents, they're doing their best. You have to blame something faceless, like video games, or movies, or something else along those lines.
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Posted 18 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

View PostFlyingElf, on 18 June 2010 - 06:25 PM, said:

I agree, but remember in today's society, nothing is anybody's fault. You can't blame the parents, they're doing their best. You have to blame something faceless, like video games, or movies, or something else along those lines.

It's all animes' fault. :angry:
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View PostFoolish Humon, on 13 June 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Ladies ladies ladies, if you find a man whose only concern about a woman is her breast size, he just may be dumb enough to believe you if you say you have Ds when you have Bs. :thumbup:

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:10 PM

I think a good word to describe this article is "overanalysis." While these parental/educational/psych-lab figures may have good intentions and ambitions in mind, there is one problem, which has already been mentioned: we are all individuals. Each of us is wired differently, with different social and familial backgrounds. Even as adults, we tend to drift towards those we share some form of common bond with, and avoid those who rub us the wrong way.

In addition, we must all remember one important thing (to take a line from Jet in Cowboy Bebop): "There is nothing more cruel than the mind of a child." Let's not fool ourselves, each and every one of us growing up had our friends (of some sort), and we all had our rivals and enemies. No one likes everybody, nor does everyone get along with everyone else. I myself didn't have a lot of friends outside of my fifth-grade class when I moved to my current hometown - and this was because I wore hearing aids. At my old school, everyone had been told by the teachers to either be nice to me, or let me be, because to them, I was "too different." Cue me moving to this new town, and suddenly, I wasn't just "too different." Oh no. Some of the older kids took to calling me variations of the word "stupid" whenever they saw me. (Because somehow, hearing aids = mental retardation?) Think teachers talking to them did much good? Not really. Think my parents talking to the kids' parents did much good? Nope. The teasing only stopped a few years later when my parents agreed I could cope without the aids. Fickle, right? Granted, during those few years in between, there were plenty of schoolmates who knew me for me, and many of them are still friends of mine to this day. The ones who did the teasing? Who knows what happened to them. A few of them actually turned out to be okay, and became friends of mine later on. But the worst of the lot? Well, I don't even remember their names, and I don't care to.

The thing is, unless you create an entire society built around this notion that "everyone must be friends with everyone else, no best friends," no one is going to follow it. Period. And that won't happen. You're not going to hang out with the school gossip unless you're being prodded in the back with a spear - she'll not only find out your secrets, but she'll blab them to the school (and more than likely on her networking pages, as well). You're also not going to be too willing to hang out with the class bully - he seems to take too much pleasure in knocking out teeth, giving black eyes, and stealing lunch money. You're also not going to hang out with that stuck-up girl and her pack - they won't even look at you unless you have the best shoes and clothes.

There are best/close friends for a reason. These are the people whom you trust beyond all others, the ones whom you can tell your secrets, dreams, nightmares, and who will be that shoulder for you to cry on with few inhibitions. These are the people whom you can turn to when you're depressed, or need a place to escape to when there is drama in the house. These are the people who will be that support beam made of titanium, who will be there for you through thick and thin. Parents going through a nasty divorce? "Hey, my parents said you can come over for the weekend. We can watch movies in the basement!" Your boyfriend/girlfriend of just six weeks just dumped you? "Hey, come on over, let's eat pizza and ice cream and watch Sci-Fi movies! Megashark vs. Giant Octopus is on tonight!" And more importantly, these are the people who appreciate you for YOU, not because outside influences told them to. "Hey, you have a moogle on your bag! Which Final Fantasy games have you played? I hate FFVIII, but I love IX, how bout you?"
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#23 User is offline   wrexness 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:54 PM

View PostFlyingElf, on 18 June 2010 - 06:25 PM, said:

I agree, but remember in today's society, nothing is anybody's fault. You can't blame the parents, they're doing their best. You have to blame something faceless, like video games, or movies, or something else along those lines.

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#24 User is offline   Matt PNiewski 

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:48 PM

Okay, I do NOT want to sound like I am support these people. I am not However, they make a very valid point with one thing they say.

“I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for a child to rely on one friend,” said Jay Jacobs, the camp’s director. “If something goes awry, it can be devastating. It also limits a child’s ability to explore other options in the world.”

I agree one hundred percent. However, I don't think discouraging "Best friends" or a group of hand selected individuals is the right thing to do. As long as kids are raised to be self reliant, it should be okay. People take a small matter, and turn it into a thesis.... I remember the Dodgeball thing a few years back. I agree. Dodgeball teaches kids to pick on the week. I am one of many friends who couldn't catch or dodge, who ended up getting hit just to get out and not deal with those assholes we were forced to play with. But then these same mother screwers decided to try to put the nix on all competative games altogether.


Though as an adult, I do love dodgeball....
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#25 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 12:15 AM

View PostKeiichi-chan, on 18 June 2010 - 01:54 PM, said:

i can't believe that subtitle bated me into reading this poorly-written article about nonsense.
D:


HA! GOTCHA!

Seriously, that wasn't my intent. The more I see of the Scott Pilgrim movie, the more I think, "Hmm, I can see why Keiichi's so nuts over this flick." I can't rag on something that actually looks pretty kewl.

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#26 User is offline   Keiichi-chan 

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:42 AM

View Postsentinel28a, on 19 June 2010 - 12:15 AM, said:

HA! GOTCHA!

Seriously, that wasn't my intent. The more I see of the Scott Pilgrim movie, the more I think, "Hmm, I can see why Keiichi's so nuts over this flick." I can't rag on something that actually looks pretty kewl.

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it's cool. i knew what it was when i clicked it.
by the way, have you seen the new, special scott pilgrim trailer that was just released today?:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_hzZoFSnk&feature=related[/media]

This post has been edited by Keiichi-chan: 19 June 2010 - 10:52 AM


#27 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:03 AM

View PostKeiichi-chan, on 19 June 2010 - 10:42 AM, said:

it's cool. i knew what it was when i clicked it.
by the way, have you seen the new, special scott pilgrim trailer that was just released today?:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_hzZoFSnk&feature=related[/media]


Nope. I wonder if it's the same one that they had before the A-Team.

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#28 User is offline   Keiichi-chan 

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:49 AM

View Postsentinel28a, on 20 June 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

Nope. I wonder if it's the same one that they had before the A-Team.

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you didn't click that link, did you...?

#29 User is offline   Valkyrie 

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 11:29 AM

View PostMatt PNiewski, on 18 June 2010 - 09:48 PM, said:

Okay, I do NOT want to sound like I am support these people. I am not However, they make a very valid point with one thing they say.

“I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for a child to rely on one friend,” said Jay Jacobs, the camp’s director. “If something goes awry, it can be devastating. It also limits a child’s ability to explore other options in the world.”

I agree one hundred percent. However, I don't think discouraging "Best friends" or a group of hand selected individuals is the right thing to do. As long as kids are raised to be self reliant, it should be okay. People take a small matter, and turn it into a thesis.... I remember the Dodgeball thing a few years back. I agree. Dodgeball teaches kids to pick on the week. I am one of many friends who couldn't catch or dodge, who ended up getting hit just to get out and not deal with those assholes we were forced to play with. But then these same mother screwers decided to try to put the nix on all competative games altogether.


Though as an adult, I do love dodgeball....


This I also agree with, on many levels. It's certainly unhealthy to depend on just ONE person, rather than branch out. But I don't think they realize that with some children - and even some adults - this will happen whether you take BFFs out of the equation or not. Some people are just that clingy, whether because of personal trauma, or how they grew up, or simply because it's how they're wired. I've even known people who broke off their own best-friendship because one of the duo was being way too clingy or depending way too much on the other.

If anything, best friends - or even close friends - give you that outlet that you can't necessarily get from everyone else. And it makes my head hurt to know that these people believe that kids should and can be friends with everyone. Really? I don't want to bring cynicism in on this, but adults can't even be friends with everyone. It's not how we function. We can co-exist, on certain levels, but we can't hope to be friends with everyone we come into contact with. There will always be that one person (maybe more) whom you know who don't like, who makes you uncomfortable, and all in all rubs you the wrong way. There are even kids of whom parents will say, "Don't play with them anymore," because they did something that they don't approve of. (For many reasons, whether it be that the parents don't get along anymore, or little Bobby was caught burning whiskers on kittens, or something in between.) This thesis just doesn't work. Good intentions, yes, but can it work? No.
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#30 User is offline   Dark Stranger 

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:25 PM

This is the same pseudo child psychological bs that's killing America. It makes people weak and naive. "oh we are all friends let's all be nice to each other, we are all equal right." Wake up. People are not all the same. There will be kids better then some at sports, school, etc. Trying to make all the kids "feel equal" makes them all weak.
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