[sisterdiscord]

I need advice, and you guys are the best people I can think of to ask.

Every year, we have damage happen to the hotel, and in case you didn't know, when damage to the hotel happens on our weekend it costs us money. Sometimes, lots of money. So I need advice on how to get the word out that this isn't cool behavior, and at its extremes it can interfere with our ability to run the show.

Specifically, a couple of accidental things I think I just need to make folks aware of, and there are intentional things that I have NO idea why someone would do, and I don't know how to make them stop.

So..the accidental stuff:
With the horror theme, we knew we'd see some fake blood and such, so that's just part of the way things work. I think we need to get the word out that if you see a mess, tell one of my staff and we'll get it cleaned, because proactively handling these things makes them lots less impactful than leaving them and giving the stains time to set.

Body Paint: I love cosplay. Love, love love! Unfortunately, we have to pay for leather cleaning and upholstery replacement for the couches that got stained because the body painted cosplayers put their anatomy on them and stuff rubbed off. We may just need costume rule that the 'sitting bits' of you must be covered by fabric or something other than just paint, to avoid the damage.

Intentional Damage:
Here, I think I just need to understand why. I don't get why someone would want to break a mirror or write in fake blood in the mens' bathrooms. I don't know why they ripped a urinal off a wall, broke countertops, punched holes in walls. Anybody have input? Advice on how to make it not happen?

Sign Stealing: So...someone was apparently collecting my signage for their scrapbook or something this year, because the signs for several of my rooms walked away multiple times! Was there a scavenger hunt I didn't know about?

Seriously, I'm not just whining, I want advice on how to keep the carnage to a minimum.

[yuesokka]

the body paint one sometimes just really slips peoples minds. (got stuck to a chair at ohayocon once from mine i honestly just forgot to move the coat under me.)

covers for the couches in the lobbies might not hurt here. or even have poeple donate there old pokemon bed sheets to cover them.

fake blood not sure about, sept have a few signs saying please notify staff for messes please.

the bathroom one i'm not really sure. cause that's just crazy. how do you even do that?

[XenoBlade]

Well for the intentional things, only thing I can think of it having staff (I.R.T. probably fits that catergory) watch over said trouble areas. It's pretty hard to prevent damage in bathrooms and stuff otherwise. Also if there is some huge group of people, maybe have said IRT member limit the people in the bathroom. Sounds silly and restricting, but if people can't leave things as they are, that route may have to get taken.

Sign stealing? Probably same thing. Tho I'm not too sure what signs they are, and how many there are so I guess that'll be a little harder to control by just watching. I think that fact that I have no idea about these signs kinda hurts me trying to give ideas.

For the accidental stuff, maybe instead of trying to get people to wear something to cover themselves to prevent damage ,(because face it, trying to enforce that will be nigh impossible.) maybe have some kinda seat covers? Or like plastic. you know, grandma style. Then remove them when done. (I guess you have to ask permission to do it from the hotel, but it's an option.

[sisterdiscord]

yuesokka, on May 20 2010, 04:42 PM, said:

the bathroom one i'm not really sure. cause that's just crazy. how do you even do that?

We definitely need to work on signage next year.
Re the bathroom: I wish I knew. I just know it's more expensive than people think. We like our hotel--I don't want to make them mad, so I hope we can stop it.

Rosa

XenoBlade, on May 20 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

For the accidental stuff, maybe instead of trying to get people to wear something to cover themselves to prevent damage ,(because face it, trying to enforce that will be nigh impossible.) maybe have some kinda seat covers? Or like plastic. you know, grandma style. Then remove them when done. (I guess you have to ask permission to do it from the hotel, but it's an option.

I can totally see us going all "grandma" on everybody and putting down some seat covers--it would be hilarious! I will talk to the hotel. The big white leather benches were the biggest issue...little round painted butt-prints all along them.

[Jguy]

Wow, and I thought this year we were better than other years (just walking through the venue myself)

Some of the body/face paint I get, most people wont think twice. It also differs by face paint brand, some will smudge off, some will not.

Ripping stuff off of walls and intentionally damaging stuff should be punishable by banishment from the convention, and that is of my own opinion and not of MAPS or Anime Central. There is no reason to deface and damage property like that. Maybe I should go to these congoers houses and start ripping their toilets up out of the floor (purely joking, but you get the seriousness, I hope)

Unfortunetly, there is no safe and really private way of protecting the bathroom property from getting damaged. I don't think it would look great on the convention to station an IRT member in-or-out of the bathrooms and keep watch over them, that would invade even my privacy, and I'm usually a pretty open guy when it comes to stuff like that.

[SongstressLenne]

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

I need advice, and you guys are the best people I can think of to ask.

Every year, we have damage happen to the hotel, and in case you didn't know, when damage to the hotel happens on our weekend it costs us money. Sometimes, lots of money. So I need advice on how to get the word out that this isn't cool behavior, and at its extremes it can interfere with our ability to run the show.

Specifically, a couple of accidental things I think I just need to make folks aware of, and there are intentional things that I have NO idea why someone would do, and I don't know how to make them stop.

So..the accidental stuff:
With the horror theme, we knew we'd see some fake blood and such, so that's just part of the way things work. I think we need to get the word out that if you see a mess, tell one of my staff and we'll get it cleaned, because proactively handling these things makes them lots less impactful than leaving them and giving the stains time to set.

Body Paint: I love cosplay. Love, love love! Unfortunately, we have to pay for leather cleaning and upholstery replacement for the couches that got stained because the body painted cosplayers put their anatomy on them and stuff rubbed off. We may just need costume rule that the 'sitting bits' of you must be covered by fabric or something other than just paint, to avoid the damage.

Intentional Damage:
Here, I think I just need to understand why. I don't get why someone would want to break a mirror or write in fake blood in the mens' bathrooms. I don't know why they ripped a urinal off a wall, broke countertops, punched holes in walls. Anybody have input? Advice on how to make it not happen?

Sign Stealing: So...someone was apparently collecting my signage for their scrapbook or something this year, because the signs for several of my rooms walked away multiple times! Was there a scavenger hunt I didn't know about?

Seriously, I'm not just whining, I want advice on how to keep the carnage to a minimum.

I almost think we need a staff "Mom away from home" clean up crew or cleaning crew gofers. I don't think that the regular physical staff has the energy at the end of the day to go around cleaning up everyone's mess. If an attendee or staffer sees a stain on a couch, or writing on the walls, or someone decided to play confetti with flyers, we grab IRT or a staff, IRT or staffer has someone radios to dispatch, dispatch sends off the cleaning crew to clean up. This eases the load on the hotel staff at the end of the con, doesn't tire out the already tired staff and opens up new staffing positions for people who want to give back and have a knack for cleaning.

We already have our own Incident Response Team, a Emergency Medical Response team, why not a Clean Up Team?

For people that think it's funny to on purpose break things, we might need to look into have a staffer sit in the bathroom and monitor. It sucks, but it takes a handful of people to ruin it for them all.

As for the signs, here is a solution, have them between plexi-glass or colored/non-colored plastic and taped off, this way if klepto-sign happy person decides to go on a hunt it cannot be tucked away in a backpack or under a coat without a huge noticeable square or by the time they finished picking the tape they have gotten busted by a staffer.

These are just suggestions that can be tweaked, altered or shot down so enjoy!

[Jguy]

I can see it now....

Hey IRT, EMRT, get on your radios and get CUT! DO IT NOW.

Sorry for the offtopic, I couldn't resist. Continue.

[sammy-45]

Humm can we wrap the leather benches like we do the floor? With that plastic wrap that keeps everything out.

I personally think it's sad that we would have to consider bathroom monitors. And I would not like it. Plus we do not have enough staff for that.

I think we should do a reward system. If you see someone purposefully damaging property and you can get them doing so in the act on your cell phone, so we know who they are, and /or a badge name, you should get a reward. Something like a free badge for next year. This way we could increase the number of people looking out for others who would break things, but would not have to have extra staff just to watch the bathrooms. And if people get pictures or video on their cell phones, we will know who did it and have proof so that they have to pay for what they broke not the con.

What do you think of that idea?

[XenoBlade]

sammy-45, on May 20 2010, 12:32 PM, said:

Humm can we wrap the leather benches like we do the floor? With that plastic wrap that keeps everything out.

I personally think it's sad that we would have to consider bathroom monitors. And I would not like it. Plus we do not have enough staff for that.

I think we should do a reward system. If you see someone purposefully damaging property and you can get them doing so in the act on your cell phone, so we know who they are, and /or a badge name, you should get a reward. Something like a free badge for next year. This way we could increase the number of people looking out for others who would break things, but would not have to have extra staff just to watch the bathrooms. And if people get pictures or video on their cell phones, we will know who did it and have proof so that they have to pay for what they broke not the con.

What do you think of that idea?

Only problem with that, is one, they might not get a good enough image. I foresee problems with actually charging the guilty crime, as you'll need like the image of a badge name and the person doing it so there is no reasonable doubt. (or maybe fingerprint dusting? lol If that is the case, then what I just said is out the window IF they get a good shot.)

two, fear. If you they around someone destroying something, they may be intimidated NOT to want to take a photo. I imagine when someone does something that stupid, it's more then just one person doing it or around with the group, so it's their own safety at risk too.

[redx1]

sammy-45, on May 20 2010, 12:32 PM, said:

I think we should do a reward system. If you see someone purposefully damaging property and you can get them doing so in the act on your cell phone, so we know who they are, and /or a badge name, you should get a reward. Something like a free badge for next year. This way we could increase the number of people looking out for others who would break things, but would not have to have extra staff just to watch the bathrooms. And if people get pictures or video on their cell phones, we will know who did it and have proof so that they have to pay for what they broke not the con.

What do you think of that idea?

Love this idea! It's like the neighborhood watch system, but it's the con watch!

Should be effective if you can bribe people with swag. Of course, you don't want to motivate people to try to enforce ACen rules themselves. You just want to encourage people to try to keep a proactive eye on everyone and encourage appropriate behavior.

[Ashikana]

Really? someone tore a urinal off the wall? o.O

Plastic covering would be a good idea for benches and such, not sure how expensive that would be tho.

[ACen Guy Brown]

You could do a PSA or something along those lines. Of course that just may encourage the acts even further.

[Voxx]

With the body paint we could definitely add it to the IRT cosplay rule list in saying that if you use body paint make sure it does not rub off or any part of your body that will be touching anything that isnt theirs will be covered.

Vandalism happens whenever you get a big group of people together. It can be by accident and people dont want to say anything about it or its on purpose. Back when I was in band we went to state competitions soo many times and while we were walking to go on stage they had us in a corridor with windows and someones tuba hit the glass and shattered it. Completely accidental and then one drummer was banging his sticks against the windows and shattered that one as well. There is not much you can do about things like that. We already have IRT all around the con, but I do recommend a bathroom check every once in a while so they dont seem creepy standing outside of them all of the time. Just have them check the bathrooms every once in a while or make it seem like they are just using the restroom and even if they are they can check too.

I dont think a reward system would work because people can lie just to get free stuff. Maybe we can make a more clear announcement about the IRT hotline and have a bit about confidentiality and anonymous callers so people are more aware that if they do see something that shouldnt happen that they can call anonymously for their safety. But with that, if their call is valid we could give them some swag/acen merch or something for a reward.

With cleaning up specifically in the Hyatt I think that is what their maintenance team is for. Granted we can always try to help out but I'm not sure what their rules are. I know at my work if you are not maintenance you cannot clean up a spill so the Hyatt might work like that, but maybe we can talk to them and see if what we can do.

This is just my input. Unfortunately this stuff happens but we can always try to deter it. More people would be less likely to steal or vandalize things if they see people watching.

[this_chick25]

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

Body Paint: I love cosplay. Love, love love! Unfortunately, we have to pay for leather cleaning and upholstery replacement for the couches that got stained because the body painted cosplayers put their anatomy on them and stuff rubbed off. We may just need costume rule that the 'sitting bits' of you must be covered by fabric or something other than just paint, to avoid the damage.

It'd probably be a good idea to tell painted cosplayers to bring a cover to sit on. Leather and vinyl tends to love things that people mark themselves with (Sharpie and fake blood being two of the infamous)

Quote

Intentional Damage:
Here, I think I just need to understand why. I don't get why someone would want to break a mirror or write in fake blood in the mens' bathrooms. I don't know why they ripped a urinal off a wall, broke countertops, punched holes in walls. Anybody have input? Advice on how to make it not happen?

OK, what? SERIOUSLY? I honestly hope it's not one of the nice new ones with the monitor screens on them... those were awesome.

...and HOW do you rip a urinal off a wall?!? By dancing on it? That seems a herculean feat of lack of home training.

redx1, on May 20 2010, 12:39 PM, said:

Love this idea! It's like the neighborhood watch system, but it's the con watch!

Should be effective if you can bribe people with swag. Of course, you don't want to motivate people to try to enforce ACen rules themselves. You just want to encourage people to try to keep a proactive eye on everyone and encourage appropriate behavior.

Swag is good. T-shirts, bags, hats, and maybe a free badge in the case of serious damage prevented.

Ska_Toranpetta, on May 20 2010, 12:49 PM, said:

I dont think a reward system would work because people can lie just to get free stuff. Maybe we can make a more clear announcement about the IRT hotline and have a bit about confidentiality and anonymous callers so people are more aware that if they do see something that shouldnt happen that they can call anonymously for their safety. But with that, if their call is valid we could give them some swag/acen merch or something for a reward.

It could work, but it should be more like a reward you get on the spot that you can turn in for swag before the end of con. Like a card or a stamp that you'd get from an IRT member or a member of staff. That way, people may be more likely to report at the time of transgression, as opposed to after the fact. We have a similar program at my job that pertains to safety--report an accident as it happens or a hazardous situation before it could very likely happen, and you are rewarded on the spot--then you turn the rewards in before the end of the year for prizes. The cost in prizes usually is less than the potential cost of time off or medical bills.

[Scott]

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

With the horror theme, we knew we'd see some fake blood and such, so that's just part of the way things work. I think we need to get the word out that if you see a mess, tell one of my staff and we'll get it cleaned, because proactively handling these things makes them lots less impactful than leaving them and giving the stains time to set.
Body Paint: I love cosplay. Love, love love! Unfortunately, we have to pay for leather cleaning and upholstery replacement for the couches that got stained because the body painted cosplayers put their anatomy on them and stuff rubbed off. We may just need costume rule that the 'sitting bits' of you must be covered by fabric or something other than just paint, to avoid the damage.

Washable or (basic plastic) covers seem like the most logical solution for any furniture that can be easily damaged by liquids/paint/sharp things. Sure, you can ask people not to do something, but taking precautions is the best solution in my opinion. This will only work if the Hyatt allows it, but I think it's a pretty good solution if implemented properly. You could even have the covers printed with ACEN logos. Just make sure whatever you use is not a slick material or there might be other issues (people sliding off the seats).

I thought there were already rules against the types of liquids used in cosplay? I remember one of the cosplayers in the fashion show say he was using liquid soap in his cosplay, which sounds like the best type of liquid to use. Maybe having a request that liquids be colored-dish soap or similar that won't stain would be a good idea.

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

Intentional Damage:
Here, I think I just need to understand why. I don't get why someone would want to break a mirror or write in fake blood in the mens' bathrooms. I don't know why they ripped a urinal off a wall, broke countertops, punched holes in walls. Anybody have input? Advice on how to make it not happen?

Signs in the bathrooms that show pictures of past damage and exactly how much it cost the convention?

Something like this:
ACEN attendees, think about the consequences of your actions before doing something like this *photo*, the $15000 cost to MAPS means less *insert text* for everyone.

Do these things only happen at the Hyatt?

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

Sign Stealing: So...someone was apparently collecting my signage for their scrapbook or something this year, because the signs for several of my rooms walked away multiple times! Was there a scavenger hunt I didn't know about?
Seriously, I'm not just whining, I want advice on how to keep the carnage to a minimum.

I don't remember seeing many signs, what was on them? How about using metal sign posts with 50 LB weight(s) duct-taped to the base? Make the sign pretty much impossible to detach from the base... I can't see someone stealing a sign with 50 LB+ weight(s) attached.


Overall, I think taking extra precautions will cost money, but not as much as paying damage costs.

[rondo]

Year after year, I keep going to the con and I always find myself feeling sorry for the hotel for having to put up with some of the congoers.

On one of the benches around the elevators, I noticed a rather large red swipe on a leather bench. Quite likely from cosplay but an example of what I saw.

As for what you can do, sadly there isn't much that would probably work. Congoers will be congoers no matter how much you try to sway people to behave and/or be more careful with the hotel property. And the message you would relay to people will likely only reach a small amount of individuals, whether it be at something like the opening ceremony or in the programming guide.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't try though. Should be the first full page you open in the guide. Yeah, you may loose some advertising revenue but how much might you save if it can prevent some damage.

You could also counterbalance your costs by raising fees overall. Not saying you should, but leave it out there as a PSA to let people know what ramifications their actions may have.

Having something to protect the chairs sounds like a good idea but I am unsure how the hotel feels about the aesthetics of the general hotel area. No clue on this one.

There is probably nothing you can do about people who seek to damage things. You can encourage people to report such incidents but that is probably the best you can do. You'll likely still be paying costs unless you can get it out of the people who did the damage.

I have to wonder if the increased party culture that is thriving at the con contributes to this.

[jsieczkar]

Scott, on May 20 2010, 03:09 PM, said:

Signs in the bathrooms that show pictures of past damage and exactly how much it cost the convention?

Something like this:
ACEN attendees, think about the consequences of your actions before doing something like this *photo*, the $15000 cost to MAPS means less *insert text* for everyone.

I think that is a good idea, it might make someone with body paint think about sitting down on a white seat if they know that it is not a $1 fix. When people know that it is them who is ultimately responsible for the damages and the extent those damages they are more likely to be careful and to report other people. Will it stop the drunks and the Hooligans no, but maybe if people know that some of these repairs can be 4 digests or more people may be more willing to turn these people in. It worked at my dorm in college it might work at Acen.

[Alicorn]

It seems that a lot of the INTENTIONAL vandalism happens at night when people get drunk and stupid - maybe being stricter about reporting open-containers and public intoxication to IRT or Rosemont PD officers would help with that? I know I saw lots of complaints about drunk people wandering the halls, but as public intoxication isn't specifically mentioned in the rules, I don't know if the hotel is considered a private location or what the specific laws are about that.

Of course, drunk people might still vandalize in their rooms (god, the stories about people trashing their rooms I've heard from congoers over the years...) but then the hotel has a way to punish them, because they have on record who was staying in the room and can bill accordingly!

[Jazhed508]

Idea on the seat covers: Have a heavier gauge plastice sheet over the chair with a fabric overlay that can be pulled off and replaced several times over the course of the convention to be laundered.

[rondo]

Alicorn, on May 20 2010, 04:16 PM, said:

I know I saw lots of complaints about drunk people wandering the halls, but as public intoxication isn't specifically mentioned in the rules, I don't know if the hotel is considered a private location or what the specific laws are about that.

The hotel should be considered private property. Unless it was a serious problem, I don't believe the hotel would have an issue with public intoxication (it has two bars inside the hotel after all) unless it was a major disruption to other guests and/or its own property.

[Smokey]

Scott, on May 20 2010, 02:09 PM, said:

Signs in the bathrooms that show pictures of past damage and exactly how much it cost the convention?

Something like this:
ACEN attendees, think about the consequences of your actions before doing something like this *photo*, the $15000 cost to MAPS means less *insert text* for everyone.

I like this idea. Pictures of the worst damages with the caption "Your badge would have cost you $X less if we didn't have to pay for damages. I'ts your convention too, help keep costs down by reporting vandalism as it happens."

It wouldn't have to be in so many words, just get the message across that damages are paid for with badge revenue.

[Alkaren Hyralt]

The damage will always be hard to contain so long as we have immature kids who think it's funny to do such things.

I mean, do people really want a more heavy-handed enforcement?

Just makes no sense to me.


(ps pin'd'd)

[Ashikana]

What if there was a ninja staff group so to say that could keep an eye out for trouble makers. That way if the stupid people only think no one is around, they would be unpleasantly surprised. Because if someone is gonna be stupid they will do so if they don't think they will get caught.

[kenkendazo]

Public executions!

Actually, I think you should raise the ticket price by $5 across the board. That would help to cover the cost, but advertise why the price increase exists. Then, if this year the con isn't damaging, go back to the normal price. This will also cause people to peer pressure those who they see doing bad things not to. I think the only way to get to such an immature group is through fear and turning the entire world against them.

[gadgets]

i remember walking in the lobby by the couches and there was a big freaken pink or red stain on the white leather couch and i was like....oh man this is not going to be good for acen

[antisocialist]

It's unfortunate that things like covering over leather benches and ottomans should have to be done. I was on the 8th floor of the Hyatt and it seriously looked like Aunt Flo decided to make an appearance on the furniture. When I saw that it was still bright red the following morning, I noticed that it WAS false blood.

I think that, ultimately, until people with the con get it together, I'm not for stating that "MEMBERS OF ANIME CENTRAL - OTHER PEOPLE STAY HERE TOO" and having signs like that all over the hotels and convention center. It's sickening how stupid some of the people with the con can be.

[kenkendazo]

My take is that signs are not going to work. I think that it'll make more people want to do damage. It'll be a game to see who can get away with the most destruction.

[animefan1977]

sisterdiscord, on May 20 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

Intentional Damage:
Here, I think I just need to understand why. I don't get why someone would want to break a mirror or write in fake blood in the mens' bathrooms. I don't know why they ripped a urinal off a wall, broke countertops, punched holes in walls. Anybody have input? Advice on how to make it not happen?

WTF? The only way to stop that sort of idiocy is to monitor the bathrooms. Which would suck, but unless you catch them in the act, there isn't much you can do. I would assume that happened late in the evening. Maybe have some IRT check in the bathrooms now and then in the late hours. Even one standing near the bathroom might deter that sort of crap. That had to have made a lot of noise.

[davebb]

rondo, on May 20 2010, 03:56 PM, said:

The hotel should be considered private property. Unless it was a serious problem, I don't believe the hotel would have an issue with public intoxication (it has two bars inside the hotel after all) unless it was a major disruption to other guests and/or its own property.

Well bar tenders and waitresses are not supposed to continue serving to those who are really too drunk to drink. Also those who are walking around publicly intoxicated will be stopped by police, and asked to goto their room after carding them (happened last year with someone I had to check out on a medical call), and also the hotel staff I don't think like cleaning up vomit from the floors everywhere. I don't think you like tasting your past meal come up either along with the alcohol. So please moderate your drinking. Another point, if you are so drunk you end up with alcohol poisoning, you earned an expensive ride via a short bus with flashy lights and a siren on top of it to the local hospital ER and a VERY expensive ER bill. Imagine all the anime and manga you can purchase with that money you are now spending on the trip to and in the ER

[JediNight]

The accidental -- other than the seat covers, there isn't much you can do but put a reminder post on the home page and mention it to everyone during Opening ceremonies and ask attendees to spread the word about it. Also of course, attendees can help us out greatly by being proactive and letting us know when stuff happens right away. Especially if you see someone doing something crazy like ripping stuff off walls.

The intentional -- What bathrooms was this vandalism happening in? I would assume the ones in the Hyatt near Main? I would think with Panel Ops right next to the other bathrooms on the Entry level, that nobody would try messing with them. Only suggestion is to post an IRT at those bathrooms for at least like 9pm-6am (or whenever the dance lets out). Kids are much less likely to try breaking stuff if they know an IRT is standing outside 6ft away. I think the cost savings would be well worth having a few IRT full-time on bathroom duty, as stuff like urinals, mirror and wall damage runs into the thousands of dollars I bet...


General common sense opinion -- Holding an underage Rave/Dance is going to exponentially multiply the likelihood of vandalism like this happening. Yeah yeah, give me my cane and get off my lawn, etc. but honestly ... kids are away from home, usually not with supervision, it's probably the only rave/dance party they go to all year or very infrequently, it's dark etc. So they do stupid crap because "it's not my house" etc. and they think it's funny. People would break stuff at my HS all the time for no reason. Cons always have some vandalism occur, but a rave/dance is going to amplify that a lot.

It might even help to be frank about it on the website or opening ceremonies and flatout say like: (Making up the number) "Last year we had to pay for $15,000 in damages to the hotel -- that's a lot of money that could bring in more cool guests -- please help us keep the vandalism down by reporting people you see doing stuff to IRT...." etc. If you are up front and serious with people, chances are it will make an impact on people that what they perceive as harmless actually hurts the con.