[XenoBlade]

Yeah, it was just too much angst, and too much Vanille being airheaded (even tho it's for a reason, but still. lol)

But at least they all had good reason to be angry and nipping at each other.

And I'm going to do it most likely. I'm already getting stuff set up for it to be made. lol I might wear it at Youmacon or Kollisioncon. Whereever I'm going to. haha

[Fray]

I think I'd vote Vanille. She's the only character in Square's history who I CAN'T stand to listen to.
Her voice just keeps changing between a normal one and some psudo-British Accent at any random point in time, as well as she constantly moans when she attacks. She's so ditzy and random that its like she was written to be just the character you like to stare at and nothing else. Sure, later in the game when she gets Death, she's pretty powerful, but that doesn't excuse how deliberately annoying she is.

This post has been edited by Fray: 25 May 2010 - 10:19 AM

[Sir Viver]

Fray, on May 25 2010, 11:18 AM, said:

she constantly moans when she attacks.

And this is a bad thing, how?

[Fray]

Sir Viver, on May 25 2010, 11:24 AM, said:

And this is a bad thing, how?

Yeah yeah, it's hot and all, but I mean come on!
You're in the middle of a battle with a pack of monsters and she's sitting there having an orgasm while your team is getting killed and she's the one who's supposed to heal them! She's so unfocused that I guess she considers a dangerous battlefield her private naughty time...

It's just not good battle etiquette.

[XenoBlade]

Well, anyone can be the healer....just sayin.....lol

Besides, of ANY annoying battle cry, it's Fang.

EAHHHHHHH! Sounds like an old hag cry.

This post has been edited by XenoBlade: 25 May 2010 - 10:32 AM

[Fray]

XenoBlade, on May 25 2010, 11:32 AM, said:

Well, anyone can be the healer....just sayin.....lol

Besides, of ANY annoying battle cry, it's Fang.

EAHHHHHHH! Sounds like an old hag cry.

It seems like everyone has really annoying battle cries in FF13.
I don't think I hate Snow's though... He at least sounds like he's punching someone in the face (which he does)

But it's not just in battle when she's annoying. It's all the time. Her voice is my biggest hatred. One minute, normal, another British, then wimpy sounding, then she's perky, repeat. As such, it seems like she never has anything truly relevant to say. Sure, sometimes it matters, but did you need to hear it from HER?

[TekoMuto]

I hate the archer class in FFTLW. i hate battling em in the first chapter

[Sir Viver]

Fray, on May 25 2010, 11:38 AM, said:

But it's not just in battle when she's annoying. It's all the time. Her voice is my biggest hatred. One minute, normal, another British, then wimpy sounding, then she's perky, repeat. As such, it seems like she never has anything truly relevant to say. Sure, sometimes it matters, but did you need to hear it from HER?

http://img696.images.../vanillehgh.jpg

[Aiko☆Noble]

I can't remember if anyone mentioned them before, but
THESE ...wonderful creatures should be ITT at least once. :|||

This post has been edited by AikoNoble: 25 May 2010 - 10:03 PM

[Keiichi-chan]

Sir Viver, on May 13 2010, 03:24 AM, said:

Hey, at least Zidane had a likable personality, unlike Mr. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! I hate my dad. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Spoiler

Lake Macarena?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Also, I'm curious-- what is it about FF9's story that constitutes as "bad" in your eyes? I guess it's your own opinion, we're all entitled to our own. I felt the game got the whole concept of an alternate reality right, unlike FF8 and FFX's ridiculous attempts. But hey. Opinions.

i consider it 'bad' because i can barely remember it. i consider blandness badness.
the story and characters just felt like a dull attempt to recreate memorable moments from FFIV and FFVI.

i don't understand how a cheesy laughing scene encapsulates a character's entire personality.
tidus has a few different shades, some good development and personal demons, and was atypical rpg here,
especially for the time. despite his bishie design, he was basically just a hyperactive, clumsy dork. am i
supposed to NOT like that after all the broody mcshadow-eyes from the previous games? and zidane??
the obnoxious, 1-dimensional, bouncy monkey kid? did he develop at all during the course of the game?
did he have anything to his characters besides simply being 'plucky' all the time?

zidane is pretty much the precursor for sora from kingdom hearts. if you like bouncy and happy in a really
generic, broad way...maybe that equates likability. it just felt forgettable to me. i remember the minors like beatrix
more than zidane, and even that was partially due to cool character designs more than anything else.
the art style had potential and the card game was way more intuitive. vivi was cool. thus ends the only really positive
or memorable aspects of FFIX. i guess if you have an affinity for anything that seems like a retro throwback, you
can get into it, but otherwise, i don't understand what you're seeing in that particular game at all.

[Sir Viver]

Keiichi-chan, on May 25 2010, 11:43 PM, said:

i consider it 'bad' because i can barely remember it. i consider blandness badness.
the story and characters just felt like a dull attempt to recreate memorable moments from FFIV and FFVI.

i don't understand how a cheesy laughing scene encapsulates a character's entire personality.
tidus has a few different shades, some good development and personal demons, and was atypical rpg here,
especially for the time. despite his bishie design, he was basically just a hyperactive, clumsy dork. am i
supposed to NOT like that after all the broody mcshadow-eyes from the previous games? and zidane??
the obnoxious, 1-dimensional, bouncy monkey kid? did he develop at all during the course of the game?
did he have anything to his characters besides simply being 'plucky' all the time?

zidane is pretty much the precursor for sora from kingdom hearts. if you like bouncy and happy in a really
generic, broad way...maybe that equates likability. it just felt forgettable to me. i remember the minors like beatrix
more than zidane, and even that was partially due to cool character designs more than anything else.
the art style had potential and the card game was way more intuitive. vivi was cool. thus ends the only really positive
or memorable aspects of FFIX. i guess if you have an affinity for anything that seems like a retro throwback, you
can get into it, but otherwise, i don't understand what you're seeing in that particular game at all.

I don't see how anyone can call Zidane 1-dimensional, and in the same post, claim Tidus actually had depth, but whatever, man...

This post has been edited by Sir Viver: 25 May 2010 - 11:10 PM

[Aizen_sama]

Even though he had a well developed character throughout the game, Tidus is still an anoying character at way too many points throughout.

[Sir Viver]

Aizen, on May 26 2010, 12:18 AM, said:

Even though he had a well developed character throughout the game, Tidus is still an anoying character at way too many points throughout.

Exactly. 1-dimensional =/= necessarily less annoying. By that logic, Shinji from Evangelion is a less annoying character than Mario, simply because he has more "depth." (But let's turn a blind eye to how much he made us want to wreck him and anyone like him in a dark alley) If Mario sat in a corner crying about all the innocent goombas and koopas that he had to kill, just so he could get a piece of that Peach pie, pondering if she loved Bowser more, and contemplated An Hero'ing into a bottomless pit, I'd probably hate him even more than any Square-Enix character.

This post has been edited by Sir Viver: 25 May 2010 - 11:30 PM

[Aiko☆Noble]

Sir Viver, on May 26 2010, 12:26 AM, said:

If Mario sat in a corner crying about all the innocent goombas and koopas that he had to kill, just so he could get a piece of that Peach pie, pondering if she loved Bowser more, and contemplated An Hero'ing into a bottomless pit, I'd probably hate him even more than any Square-Enix character.

Lol'd.

Let's play nice, guise. It's all everyone's opinion, so let's join together in
peace, love, and hating on characters all around. :3 I love Squall, but someone
can call him a pansy tard and I'll look the other way.

To keep things going, here's the most obvious choice.

[Keiichi-chan]

Sir Viver, on May 26 2010, 12:06 AM, said:

I don't see how anyone can call Zidane 1-dimensional, and in the same post, claim Tidus actually had depth, but whatever, man...

are you claiming tidus is a less developed character than zidane?
you're not even explaining WHY you like zidane and why you dislike tidus; you're
just stating your opinion as if it's an obvious fact that tidus is annoying. it depends on what you
find annoying. i find flat cliches more annoying than hyperactive dorks, so i didn't mind tidus at all.
his bumbling was semi-cute and entertaining. zidane bouncing up and down going, 'i'm the hero! watch me
save a princess! DON'T I REMIND YOU OF LOOOOOOCKE?!!?' was sickening..

i mean, can you even describe zidane's personality and what's so likable about it? i'm sure you can
actually name personality traits tidus has, whether you like him or not.

Quote

Exactly. 1-dimensional =/= necessarily less annoying.

..and who exactly was arguing this point? it certainly wasn't me.
so you're saying zidane is just as annoying as tidus, but likable?

[Sir Viver]

Keiichi-chan, on May 26 2010, 12:48 AM, said:

are you claiming tidus is a less developed character than zidane?
you're not even explaining WHY you like zidane and why you dislike tidus; you're
just stating your opinion as if it's an obvious fact that tidus is annoying. it depends on what you
find annoying. i find flat cliches more annoying than hyperactive dorks, so i didn't mind tidus at all.
his bumbling was semi-cute and entertaining. zidane bouncing up and down going, 'i'm the hero! watch me
save a princess! DON'T I REMIND YOU OF LOOOOOOCKE?!!?' was sickening..

Did you... play through all of FF9? I'm thinking we played different versions of FF9... I also find flat cliches more annoying than hyperactive dorks, hence why I find Tidus more annoying since he has both working against him, and not just Zidane's "typical hero" archetype. And really, has any Final Fantasy game ever characters that weren't flat cliches? It's like we're arguing about which character is less-cliched in a series that's infamous for being an ocean of flat cliches. I'm hard-pressed to think of a JRPG series that is more cliched, without using the words "Tales of."

Quote

..and who exactly was arguing this point? it certainly wasn't me.
so you're saying zidane is just as annoying as tidus, but likable?

I'm saying Zidane did enough to play his role in a story that genuinely interested me, rather than Tidus' role of spicing up a poorly-paced tale with his "cute" annoyingness. FF9 didn't fall back on a facepalm-inducing protagonist, its story was more than entertaining enough throughout. (for anyone who's actually played through all of FF9)

This post has been edited by Sir Viver: 26 May 2010 - 12:06 AM

[KungPowKirby]

Quina... FF9 yuck. I hate her.

[Keiichi-chan]

Sir Viver, on May 26 2010, 01:02 AM, said:

Did you... play through all of FF9? I'm thinking we played different versions of FF9... I also find flat cliches more annoying than hyperactive dorks, hence why I find Tidus more annoying since he has both working against him, and not just Zidane's "typical hero" archetype. And really, has any Final Fantasy game ever characters that weren't flat cliches? It's like we're arguing about which character is less-cliched in a series that's infamous for being an ocean of flat cliches. I'm hard-pressed to think of a JRPG series that is more cliched, without using the words "Tales of."

I'm saying Zidane did enough to play his role in a story that genuinely interested me, rather than Tidus' role of spicing up a poorly-paced tale with his "cute" annoyingness. FF9 didn't fall back on a facepalm-inducing protagonist, its story was more than entertaining enough throughout. (for anyone who's actually played through all of FF9)

i played it, dude. i remember the cringe-inducing reveal of why zidane has a monkey's tail more than anything else
of the story. it felt like peeks and peers at a larger, more interesting story coupled with chauffeuring a princess around.
not seeing what you enjoyed so much about the storyline there, but i haven't played the game since a year or two after its release. it certainly was one of the better psx ffs, but that's not saying much at all...

the GOOD final fantasy games has archetypes. the BAD final fantasies have cliches.
archetypes are fine if well-written and unique in their own right. tidus was a pretty original character as far as
the series goes. but, exactly what cliches are you claiming he represents? nerdy..athlete? there haven't been a whole
lot of those in rpgs in general. i'm just curious as to WHERE the dislike of tidus even comes from.

[Sir Viver]

Keiichi-chan, on May 26 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

i played it, dude. i remember the cringe-inducing reveal of why zidane has a monkey's tail more than anything else
of the story. it felt like peeks and peers at a larger, more interesting story coupled with chauffeuring a princess around.
not seeing what you enjoyed so much about the storyline there, but i haven't played the game since a year or two after its release. it certainly was one of the better psx ffs, but that's not saying much at all...

Amen to that last part. Wait, the whole "other dimension" thing was cringe-inducing? No more cringe-inducing that the "I'm a dream of a dream lol" thing, that's for sure.

Quote

the GOOD final fantasy games has archetypes. the BAD final fantasies have cliches.

And meanwhile, every JRPG takes all the cliches from D&D while the fans call them "archetypes."

Quote

archetypes are fine if well-written and unique in their own right. tidus was a pretty original character as far as
the series goes.

...I'd post a "confused" reaction image in response to this, but I don't have any that quite embody the level of confusion I'm feeling right now.

Quote

but, exactly what cliches are you claiming he represents? nerdy..athlete? there haven't been a whole
lot of those in rpgs in general. i'm just curious as to WHERE the dislike of tidus even comes from.

Daddy issues.
Mom died when he was young.
Cries about daddy never loving him.
Daddy turns out to be the bad guy.
Where have I seen this before.

Also, he magically made Yuna feel better halfway through the game by making out with her. Meanwhile, Zidane felt Garnet's posterior up within a few hours of starting the game. Guy was a playa. If you want to knock on Zidane, you have to knock on Edgar too. It's only fair. But a womanizer in FF9 is a cliche, while a womanizer in FF6 is an archetype, right?

Spoiler

They were both great characters in my book.

If you really liked Tidus that much, I'd recommend Crisis Core, since Zack = a more refined version of Tidus. He embodies all of his "cool" and "jock" stats, with 90% less of the accompanying "stupid." He was a pretty cool guy, eh was bros with Sephiroth, beats up Gackt, dies in a bloodbath, and doesn't afraid of anything.

Anyway, as much as I like Zidane, and FF9, I really don't think it's worth bickering about. Final Fantasy seems to be one of the touchiest subjects in online forums, so I really only have two things to say to Zidane haters at this point.
(1) Whatever.
(2) Haters gonna hate.

This post has been edited by Sir Viver: 26 May 2010 - 12:46 AM

[Keiichi-chan]

you can put a unique spin on archetypes and make them your own while still fitting into a certain 'type' of character. most stories that fit neatly within a genre, especially most fantasy stories, use archetypal characters.
ostensibly, in final fantasy vi, the characters are the thief, samurai, playboy, etc., but they're all pretty
unique and complex for rpg characters.

Quote

...I'd post a "confused" reaction image in response to this, but I don't have any that quite embody the level of confusion I'm feeling right now.

you're just saying you disagree( A LOT) but not explaining why.

Quote

Daddy issues.
Mom died when he was young.
Cries about daddy never loving him.
Daddy turns out to be the bad guy.
Where have I seen this before.

..hamlet?
except he doesn't cry about that, he's pretty pissed at his father and talking
about how much he hates him most of the time. jecht turned out to be the GOOD GUY--just a poor
father. if something resembles something else, it's bad? also, your complaint so far isn't about tidus'
backstory, it's about his character. his personality is completely different from shinji ikari:
shinji is a depressive, while tidus is rambunctious and whimsical.

not that i even hate shinji. that seems like this trendy thing people do who don't really care to pay attention
or try to understand any of the characters in evangelion. most 14-year-olds are cowardly and self-absorbed.
why should i expect any different from an animated one? most people are cowardly and self-absorbed!
don't get why i should hate a character for having understandable reactions to things, or why i should
hate one for having a similar childhood to the same character..

Quote

Also, he magically made Yuna feel better halfway through the game by making out with her. Meanwhile, Zidane felt Garnet's posterior up within a few hours of starting the game.

luffletractors! for sure, dude, for sure. characters become ontologically cooler based on how much
digital tail they get, duh! this immediately makes you just as bad (worse?) than any shouting sephiroth or
cloud fangirl who likes those characters purely because they want to 'do' them.

edgar and zidane are completely different types of characters of completely different depths and personalities
with one common trait: chasing skirt. if being horny isn't your litmus test for liking a character, you can very easily
hate one and like the other.

Quote

If you really liked Tidus that much, I'd recommend Crisis Core, since Zack = a more refined version of Tidus.

lol ..okay? i liked tidus' goofiness, which i guess you consider 'the stupid'. after all these leads who were just shallow excuses for a character to try and act as cool as possible, he was refreshing. the game doesn't care at all whether the lead looks cool or badass at all. the game pokes fun at him and that made him seem a bit easier to identify with opposed to someone staring pensively and posing all the time.

i don't dislike zidane, i don't feel anything for him. just don't get how you can bash tidus for having 'annoying' traits while praise zidane, who has far more pronounced annoying traits and not much else to him. opinions are opinions, i just prefer when people back them up or explain why they feel that way? you bash tidus enough for me to be curious about WHY.

[Sir Viver]

Keiichi-chan, on May 26 2010, 02:20 AM, said:

i don't dislike zidane

Sure had me fooled.

This post has been edited by Sir Viver: 26 May 2010 - 05:33 AM

[Fray]

Sir Viver, on May 26 2010, 01:30 AM, said:

Amen to that last part. Wait, the whole "other dimension" thing was cringe-inducing? No more cringe-inducing that the "I'm a dream of a dream lol" thing, that's for sure.

And meanwhile, every JRPG takes all the cliches from D&D while the fans call them "archetypes."
...I'd post a "confused" reaction image in response to this, but I don't have any that quite embody the level of confusion I'm feeling right now.
Daddy issues.
Mom died when he was young.
Cries about daddy never loving him.
Daddy turns out to be the bad guy.
Where have I seen this before.

Also, he magically made Yuna feel better halfway through the game by making out with her. Meanwhile, Zidane felt Garnet's posterior up within a few hours of starting the game. Guy was a playa. If you want to knock on Zidane, you have to knock on Edgar too. It's only fair. But a womanizer in FF9 is a cliche, while a womanizer in FF6 is an archetype, right?

Spoiler

They were both great characters in my book.

If you really liked Tidus that much, I'd recommend Crisis Core, since Zack = a more refined version of Tidus. He embodies all of his "cool" and "jock" stats, with 90% less of the accompanying "stupid." He was a pretty cool guy, eh was bros with Sephiroth, beats up Gackt, dies in a bloodbath, and doesn't afraid of anything.

Anyway, as much as I like Zidane, and FF9, I really don't think it's worth bickering about. Final Fantasy seems to be one of the touchiest subjects in online forums, so I really only have two things to say to Zidane haters at this point.

For once, I have to agree with Sir Viver.

If you were upset about Zidane being a genome from another dimension, then you should've commit suicide (figuratively speaking) when you found out the entire game you were playing a LIE.

Zanarkand was a dream (but at one point was real?)
Tidus never existed
The god you prayed to for hope was actually the one killing you.
The Al-bed and Machina were deemed bad because they actually did something
All your enemies were already dead
The Pilgrimage was entire reason why Sin kept coming back.

Too many M. Night Shamalan twists really didn't make the game any better.

FF9 was much better than FF10. Zidane may have been a perfect clone, but nothing about his character ever pointed to it! That's why when you found out, you're so surprised. While much like Tidus, you have some reason to believe that there's something not right about him around the time you reach Zanarkand. Really, I figured something about it wasn't right -before- that, and I didn't really look too deep into the game. Not only that, I would have to say Tidus is a worst character because of his complete obliviousness. He really did act and sound like someone dropped into a different culture. The bad part was, he tried to fit in. It just made him really annoying to listen to because everything had to be explained to him like a little kid. Of course, this was probably FF10's biggest way of getting story across, and for the most part, it worked effectively, but it didn't do good for poor Tidus.

[Sir Viver]

Fray, on May 26 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

Zanarkand was a dream (but at one point was real?)
Tidus never existed
The god you prayed to for hope was actually the one killing you.
The Al-bed and Machina were deemed bad because they actually did something
All your enemies were already dead
The Pilgrimage was entire reason why Sin kept coming back.

Super Mario Bros. 3 was all just a stage performance.

[kenkendazo]

Sir Viver, on May 26 2010, 01:32 PM, said:

Super Mario Bros. 3 was all just a stage performance.

[Dark Stranger]

Ok, I think the core of this argument is the problem that FF X focused around Tidus. (more matter how ignorant or annoying he was). While FF9 had a "main character" It wasn't focused around him. In fact most of the story focused around garnet more then Zidane. Sure there was some questions about him that we got answered But the whole game is not about him. So trying to compare the two is a little hard.

Also on a personal note I find it hard to like a character when he is so stupid when people say, "she's gonna sacrifice herself" he still doesn't know what that means and talks about how everyone is gonna all be together no matter how many odd stares he gets.

[XenoBlade]

With Tidus and Zidane, I don't hate either one, but I like Zidane a bit more. It's funny, when it first came out, I just thought Zidane was gay and hated the game. But after replying the game about a year ago, I feel quite stupid for not only downing the game as crap, but Zidane was actually a really interesting character (back in the day, I was thinking FF7 was the best thing ever) Zidane just felt more believable then Tidus. And my memory of FFX might be fuzzy, but I remember Tidus having more spazzy over the top moments then Zidane.

[Keiichi-chan]

to clarify: i thought both games had mediocre stories. ffx had much better characters, in my opinion, so i have
way less of a problem with it overall.

[Edgar Roni Figaro]

HOPE!!! My God i have never wanted to murder someone as much as him. HE CRYS WHEN HE ATTACKS!!! *throws boomarang* "WHAAA HA HA HA I WANT MY MOMMY!!!!

Spoiler

o wait......WHAAA HA HA HA......."

I'm sorry, but Hope...If he wasn't a Med and a Syn, I'd never even think to use him.

[wrexness]

Edgar, on May 26 2010, 09:00 PM, said:

HOPE!!! My God i have never wanted to murder someone as much as him. HE CRYS WHEN HE ATTACKS!!! *throws boomarang* "WHAAA HA HA HA I WANT MY MOMMY!!!!

Spoiler

o wait......WHAAA HA HA HA......."

I'm sorry, but Hope...If he wasn't a Med and a Syn, I'd never even think to use him.

He's actually quite effective as a Ravager too. He's 1 or 2 (with Vanille) in terms of magic power, so much so that he doesn't even use the boomerang anymore. Not that it fixes his whining though.

[Sir Viver]

Edgar, on May 26 2010, 09:00 PM, said:

HOPE!!! My God i have never wanted to murder someone as much as him. HE CRYS WHEN HE ATTACKS!!! *throws boomarang* "WHAAA HA HA HA I WANT MY MOMMY!!!!

Spoiler

o wait......WHAAA HA HA HA......."

I'm sorry, but Hope...If he wasn't a Med and a Syn, I'd never even think to use him.

Hope becomes awesome later on, though.

Spoiler

Sees some PSI-COM dudes right in front of him, says "hi" in a pretty chill manner, before having his summon come down and crush them. Murdering them instantly. Right in front of his face.

He certainly grew a pair...