[Valkyrie]

http://news.yahoo.co.../09171196809900

Came across this a few minutes ago, and in light of the recent firing of an entire school staff, I thought I'd bring this here.

What are your thoughts on homeschooling? Before reading this article, I had no idea that there were countries that restricted homeschooling or banned it altogether. (I also like this article because while it explains why the family moved here from Germany, it also points out the flaws that can be borne from homeschooling.)

Discuss~

[EndlessKey]

I think homeschooling is a familys right. I mean, things happen at school where a kid can be kicked out of the school, or made an enemy at the school to the point where they are going home bleeding (saw this a few times at my old high school). To have the police actually go to their house and escort them to school is pretty insane.

[Voxx]

I have had cousins that were homeschooled and my fiance was homeschooled up until his Junior year of High School and THANK GOD he came to public schooling because I would have never knew he existed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homeschooling IF it is done correctly.

I think that homeschooling at a young age could be good, but sometimes kids really need public schools for interaction with other kids besides the home schooled crowd. My fiance and my cousins were extremely sheltered and heck couldnt even watch The Simspsons! A lot of the homeschooling crowd have heavy religious backgrounds with sometimes over bearing parents and a lot of those kids turn out to be...well.. a part of the bad crowd, but others are really intelligent! Also if done wrong you could make your child very lazy and have the "I'll do it later" attitude. My cousin finally got into high school and she is failing because she isnt used to how they do homework versus her workbooks and whatnot. Its a different world and honestly I think that it all depends on the school and the parents. It isnt a this is better than that problem, its much more complicated than that.

[wrexness]

I'm conflicted: on the one hand, you will normally get a much better education from home schooling than you will from the public education system. On the other, you can't condense "education" to just what you learn in the textbooks. Social interaction is huge, and you don't learn those skills if you stay at home all the time. Yes, there are times where the kid will clash with others, but that's going to happen in the adult world too, and its better to learn how to deal with it as a young kid than it is to try to pick it up as an adult.

[Voxx]

wrexness, on Mar 2 2010, 05:01 PM, said:

I'm conflicted: on the one hand, you will normally get a much better education from home schooling than you will from the public education system. On the other, you can't condense "education" to just what you learn in the textbooks. Social interaction is huge, and you don't learn those skills if you stay at home all the time. Yes, there are times where the kid will clash with others, but that's going to happen in the adult world too, and its better to learn how to deal with it as a young kid than it is to try to pick it up as an adult.

Exactly. There needs to be a good medium. Parents should be teaching their kids regardless of their schooling! This can be cooking, how to budget money, just common life lessons. A lot of parents now think that schools should teach their child everything and this is wrong.

[Neko_master_Luna]

I can understand their right to home school, but I don't think religion should be behind the decision. As long as the children can reach their educational peak, it shouldn't matter how they do it.

[mendokuse]

Homeschooling is fine so long as they do get the social interaction part done before college, i.e. - see the movie Mean Girls.

[Yumei]

I agree with what already been said. I got nothing against Home schooled kids or parents wanting to home school their kids for what ever reason. It's good to see parents taking a role in their child's life cause you just don't see that to much now a days. The only thing I see wrong with it that home schooled kids tend to be too sheltered. Once there done with school and get out into the real world that just can't hack it! I've seen teens get ripped apart at a job cause they didn't have the skills to interact with the coworkers or customers.
However I have seen kids/teens/young adults who weren't home schooled just sheltered by there parents get ripped apart in the same manner at jobs.

[Lina]

I was more of a sheltered kid and I wasn't home schooled. I was very naive. I couldn't watch the Simpsons or South Park or shows like that like most kids did because my parents were more strict about what I watched. I couldn't watch PG-13 movies until I was 13, but my mom was a little more lenient on that. Mostly only saw things that weren't that inappropriate. My first PG-13 movie was Miss Congeniality and I saw that with my mom. I couldn't watch anything that had blatant sexual references (like Bringing Down the House. My mom regretted taking my sister to see that movie) or anything that was against my mom's morals/religion.

I definitely agree that kids can be sheltered and not be home schooled, but I agree with Ska that most parents that home school their kids are very religious and don't want their kids minds being tainted by public schooling. My high school had to get rid of the moment of silence because this atheist politician went to court or something like that and got rid of it because it apparently had to do with Christians being able to pray or what not.

[TaiyakiOni]

I dislike homeschooling as I find it to usually induce social awkwardness when a home schooled individual has to work with other people and that it shelters them from learning about the real world and how to interact with it...

Though I am probably biased since an old friend of mine was home schooled, he never finished homeschooling, and is socially awkward and has pretty much commited himself to live with his parents forever and leech off of them, which makes me sad.

I think it's a system that works some of the time, based on the people providing the homeschooling.

[Yumei]

Lina, on Mar 2 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

I definitely agree that kids can be sheltered and not be home schooled, but I agree with Ska that most parents that home school their kids are very religious and don't want their kids minds being tainted by public schooling. My high school had to get rid of the moment of silence because this atheist politician went to court or something like that and got rid of it because it apparently had to do with Christians being able to pray or what not.

That just made me think back about all the homeschooled kids I knew or know and realize how true it is....alot of them were religious or had a religious upbringing!
Also alot of them got chewed out for it cause they tried to push religion on others.....wonder if they thought that's how it goes in the world since most had it pushed on them by their parents?

[Valkyrie]

Yumei, on Mar 2 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

That just made me think back about all the homeschooled kids I knew or know and realize how true it is....alot of them were religious or had a religious upbringing!
Also alot of them got chewed out for it cause they tried to push religion on others.....wonder if they thought that's how it goes in the world since most had it pushed on them by their parents?

That reminds me of a story my Ethics prof in college told us. He told us about a student he'd had a few years before who came to his office in tears. When he asked her what was wrong, she said, "I just found out that there are people at this school...who aren't Christian!" Then she broke down in sobs. When he talked to her, he found out that she'd had a very strict religious upbringing, and was raised under the belief that everyone was Christian. He had to gently explain to her that that was not the case, and had to figure out a good way to assure her that it wasn't a bad thing while not breaking her faith and spirit at the same time. (This was at a private, Presbyterian-affiliated school, by the way.)

I'm also of the mind that homeschooling can be good for the kids, but only if the children in question are socialized at the same time. I have nothing against religion, or how dedicated one may be to it. What I do have issues with is when they become so indoctrinated that it becomes the sole pillar in their life besides their home education and family. There is an outside world out there, and there will be positive and negative influences no matter where they go - growing up and maturing is all about learning how to react to said influences. It's like having a child, but you're so afraid of him/her getting sick that you place the child in a clean room, and they're only allowed to venture around the house in a bubble. Sure, they may not get sick. But what happens when something goes wrong, and they lose that protection after they get older? They won't have a sufficient immune system to handle an illness. Homeschooled kids need to learn about what life is like outside their home, and how to deal with outside influences as they get older.

[wrexness]

Lina, on Mar 2 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

I definitely agree that kids can be sheltered and not be home schooled, but I agree with Ska that most parents that home school their kids are very religious and don't want their kids minds being tainted by public schooling. My high school had to get rid of the moment of silence because this atheist politician went to court or something like that and got rid of it because it apparently had to do with Christians being able to pray or what not.

Oh sure, pick on the atheists. XD But in seriousness, I don't follow that stuff too closely because I don't care (even as an atheist/agnostic). It's too much time an effort wasted on a stupid issue that isn't worth fighting. Though based on a quick google search, Federal Courts have actually upheld 'moment of silence' laws. And it was the ACLU that brought this particular case forward on behalf of 'seven families', not sure if they're atheist or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were. My only issue is this: what is the true motivation of people trying to push 'moment of silence' laws? To me, more often than not it seems like the true intent is to appear like good Christian warriors to the particular lawmakers' constituents, raising the flag in the name of their Lord, and that's the exact opposite of being a good Christian. (Or maybe I'm just cynical. XD ) If you're truly devout, you don't need to show it to others and say, "Hey! Look at me! I'm doing God's work!" I think religion should be a private thing, between a given person and their creator. I don't care if you believe in God, Jehovah, Allah, et al, because it's none of my business, but I expect the same privacy and respect in return.

I just don't really see the point of a devoted 'moment of silence' either. If a kid wants to pray, say, before class starts, while the teacher's taking attendance or passing out tests, I don't think anyone will stop them. If anyone does, that's an issue I would fight for. I don't think you have the right to tell someone else what they can and can't do in their own heart, mind and soul.

This post has been edited by wrexness: 02 March 2010 - 08:58 PM

[Lina]

The moment of silence is about reflection, not praying. A lot of people I know when we had the moment of silence at my school, drew, texted, and did everything, but some type of praying.

[Kii]

I completely disagree with homeschooling, most of the time.

Public schools and even private schools give children/teens the opportunity to interact with people from many different backgrounds and broadens their understanding of the world around them.

Home schooled kids do socialize with others, but usually within a restricted group of people their parents choose and approve of.

Which means they only get exposed to beliefs that match their own, usually.

Which usually makes for pretty narrow-minded and intolerant people with little to no social skills.

You can't keep them in a bubble forever.

It isn't fair to the child to restrict their world so much.

[Matt PNiewski]

Great. More Homeschooled children in America. Now all we need is more religious schools and private schools, just to make sure we have millions of other idiots who are free to get an incomplete and faulty education. Who gives a rat's butt about standards? If you don't think your children have to learn how to spell, read, work basic math, then hell.... They don't have to. Only teach them what you or the school of choice thinks is important. Forget basic education. There's bullshit to be learned!

[kenkendazo]

Most of the time brain-washing done by the parents to create clones in their own image.

[Lina]

Matt PNiewski, on Mar 2 2010, 09:23 PM, said:

Great. More Homeschooled children in America. Now all we need is more religious schools and private schools, just to make sure we have millions of other idiots who are free to get an incomplete and faulty education. Who gives a rat's butt about standards? If you don't think your children have to learn how to spell, read, work basic math, then hell.... They don't have to. Only teach them what you or the school of choice thinks is important. Forget basic education. There's bullshit to be learned!

My boyfriend went to a religious school up until high school and he turned out all right. lol

[wrexness]

Lina, on Mar 2 2010, 08:59 PM, said:

The moment of silence is about reflection, not praying. A lot of people I know when we had the moment of silence at my school, drew, texted, and did everything, but some type of praying.

Theoretically, yes. If the laws stopped at saying, "The moment of silence is a time for reflection" then there wouldn't be as many issues with the laws in the first place. Nearly every one of them seems to feel the need to insert the word "prayer" in there. Why do that? Just say, the moment of silence is a time of reflection, period. At that point any one who tried to challenge the law and say "Well, it's stealth indoctrination!" would be kicked out of court because there is no explicit reference to anything religious. Just as moments of reflection have religious purposes, they can also have secular purposes; it's left entirely to the child, which is the way it should be.

(Though, all of this is said even though in that article I posted the courts had decided that the word 'prayer' does NOT make it unconstitutional, I just don't see why the lawmakers would even mess around with that. Leave out the reference to prayer, problem solved! The kids who want to pray will be doing it anyway, it's not like you have to tell them they have permission to pray for them to go ahead and do so.)

[Voxx]

@ wrex-

They already 'banned' employees from saying Merry Christmas and make them say Happy Holidays.

But with the moment of silence thats all they say, or have said back when I was in school.

[Matt PNiewski]

Lina, on Mar 2 2010, 09:31 PM, said:

My boyfriend went to a religious school up until high school and he turned out all right. lol

So did my Dad.


I still think the whole idea is terrible, unless we actually create a uniform standard of what NEEDS to be in classes. Otherwise, home schools and private schools are a potential breeding ground for English.

I went to a Private school. Guess what they DIDN'T teach there?

Math.

[Lina]

Matt PNiewski, on Mar 2 2010, 09:39 PM, said:

So did my Dad.


I still think the whole idea is terrible, unless we actually create a uniform standard of what NEEDS to be in classes. Otherwise, home schools and private schools are a potential breeding ground for English.

I went to a Private school. Guess what they DIDN'T teach there?

Math.

That reminds me of Contact when Jodi Foster was saying that math is the one thing that is the same in every language. I enjoyed that movie.

[wrexness]

Ska_Toranpetta, on Mar 2 2010, 09:37 PM, said:

@ wrex-

They already 'banned' employees from saying Merry Christmas and make them say Happy Holidays.

But with the moment of silence thats all they say, or have said back when I was in school.

The "Happy Holidays" thing I actually agree with. Most of the people in this country celebrate Christmas (myself included), awesome for them, but not everyone in this country does. What about the people celebrating Hannukah or Kwanzaa? Or even the people who do celebrate Christmas but also celebrate New Year's? Doesn't New Year's count? It's called the holiday season because there's a LOT of holidays going on at the same time. You won't offend someone by saying "happy holidays" (well, unless the person is convinced that saying 'happy holidays' is a personal attack), but saying Merry Christmas to a Jew, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, can (note: not will) offend them. I'm normally on the side stating that political correctness has gone too far, but this is one situation where I do side with the PC people.

But as for the 'moment of silence' part, I'm more focusing on what the laws themselves say rather than what may be said in a particular school. Virginia's law, for example, says "meditate, pray or engage in other silent activity." I just think the lawmakers are going out of their way to try to win voter support by tossing the word "prayer" in there when they could just as easily avoid it by saying "moment of silence for personal reflection". :/

[Kii]

This topic is pleasing me.

[sentinel28a]

Kii, on Mar 3 2010, 04:02 AM, said:

This topic is pleasing me.

Then you'll love this, Kii.

Hey, Matt. Know what they teach in public schools these days?

NOTHING.

I deal with this every day. I've had students who think it would be perfectly fine for the Army to force their way into your house for the night (which is against the Constitution, of course). I had a student last week compare Bush with Hitler--and when I asked him to back up his assertion with evidence (and yes, I would do the same if someone compared Obama with Hitler), I had to explain to him what assertion meant. I had to explain to students what a bibliography is. A student of mine last semester was shocked that Lincoln was a Republican--because her high school teacher had told her all Republicans were against civil rights. Finally, I've had to correct another student who thought the Pilgrims rode on the Oregon Trail...because her 3rd grade teacher had insisted that was true, and she'd never heard anything to correct that.

I don't know which of my students are homeschooled and which are products of the public school system, and which are just plain stupid. (And some of them are.) But I do know that indoctrination is not limited to religious schools. Most of our high school teachers are products of colleges, whose professors are not conservative, not liberal, but reactionary. Reactionary profs may call themselves liberals, but the very word "liberal" infers "open to new ideas," and these old retreads from the 1960s are anything but. I'm not taking this from Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck or any other lunatic right-wing pundit. I'm saying this because I have seen it happen--to me.

Ever been cussed out in front of a class because you dared to disagree with a teacher, who said that Lincoln was a racist? I have.

Ever been cussed out in front of a class because you dared say, "Hey now. Bush can't be held responsible for something that didn't even happen during his administration"? I have.

Ever listen to a professor talk about how we carpet-bombed North Vietnam and purposely attacked hospitals, used gas, and knew exactly what Agent Orange would do--all of which are easily refutable lies? I have.

Ever listen to a professor claim that 9/11 was all Israel's fault? I have.

I can keep going, but it's too depressing. I think if we're going to start worrying about incomplete and faulty education, homeschooling is not what we need to clean up first.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

[Trini]

I agree with alot that's been said. People do need interaction, not just what's in textbooks. My cousin kept her 2 oldest kids outta high school because she was too late to register them into a school so they would've had to go to a bad one. I didn't agree with this, but it was understandable...the first year. Now neither one has a job, is going to school, they're both extremely awkward at gatherings, and because she didn't care about actually teaching them, one has to get a GED. It's crazy.

@Sentinel: It's absolutely nuts, but, unfortunately, it's not surprising.

[Matt PNiewski]

sentinel28a, on Mar 2 2010, 11:11 PM, said:

Then you'll love this, Kii.

Hey, Matt. Know what they teach in public schools these days?

NOTHING.

I deal with this every day. I've had students who think it would be perfectly fine for the Army to force their way into your house for the night (which is against the Constitution, of course). I had a student last week compare Bush with Hitler--and when I asked him to back up his assertion with evidence (and yes, I would do the same if someone compared Obama with Hitler), I had to explain to him what assertion meant. I had to explain to students what a bibliography is. A student of mine last semester was shocked that Lincoln was a Republican--because her high school teacher had told her all Republicans were against civil rights. Finally, I've had to correct another student who thought the Pilgrims rode on the Oregon Trail...because her 3rd grade teacher had insisted that was true, and she'd never heard anything to correct that.

I don't know which of my students are homeschooled and which are products of the public school system, and which are just plain stupid. (And some of them are.) But I do know that indoctrination is not limited to religious schools. Most of our high school teachers are products of colleges, whose professors are not conservative, not liberal, but reactionary. Reactionary profs may call themselves liberals, but the very word "liberal" infers "open to new ideas," and these old retreads from the 1960s are anything but. I'm not taking this from Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck or any other lunatic right-wing pundit. I'm saying this because I have seen it happen--to me.

Ever been cussed out in front of a class because you dared to disagree with a teacher, who said that Lincoln was a racist? I have.

Ever been cussed out in front of a class because you dared say, "Hey now. Bush can't be held responsible for something that didn't even happen during his administration"? I have.

Ever listen to a professor talk about how we carpet-bombed North Vietnam and purposely attacked hospitals, used gas, and knew exactly what Agent Orange would do--all of which are easily refutable lies? I have.

Ever listen to a professor claim that 9/11 was all Israel's fault? I have.

I can keep going, but it's too depressing. I think if we're going to start worrying about incomplete and faulty education, homeschooling is not what we need to clean up first.

Ben Da Mad Irishman

Remember, my problem is the lack of a truly standardized education. Public schools suck too, no doubt. My Dad works at a school where the history teacher claims the world is ruled by a shadow government?


That's not the point. The point is that we need to create a standard of education in America. Private Schools and Home schools by definition exist to teach a different curriculum, and teach kids things contrary to what other schools will teach them. Which is why I dislike and distrust them...

I dislike and distrust public schools because the faculty and administrations are full of idiots. But, as far as I'm concerned, we can fix that mess.