[Alkaren Hyralt]

As a teacher yourself, I'm curious what you think about something like this

And of course for general discussion.

[sentinel28a]

I teach college, not high school (not yet, anyway, and some days it feels like I'm teaching high schoolers...actually, some days it feels like I'm teaching preschoolers), but I think both sides are wrong here.

The school is wrong to essentially nuke their teaching staff. It's like using a sledgehammer to kill a spider: sure, it feels good, but it's excessive. I don't care how bad the school is doing: you don't fire your entire staff. You look for ways to work together. I had some teachers (and I've worked with some) who have been real idiots, that I wouldn't trust to teach toilet cleaning. But there's probably teachers in that school who bust their butt every day to try and teach their students. You're going to get rid of them, too? The administrators also might want to look in the mirror and see if the problem lies with them. It sometimes does, though it's worse at the college level. It's also not the teachers' responsibility to make sure the students get their homework done and so on--that's the parents' job. Where are the parents in this town?

The unions are wrong because they're part of the problem. One thing that's keeping me teaching college despite the crappy salary and no benefits is that I'm not forced to join the National Educators' Association. The NEA is at least partially responsible for why I have to teach my students how to write papers. When I graduated back in the Bronze Age (1990), my teachers may have been ancient battleaxes, but I learned how to write. I knew what a bibliography was, and I knew how to cite authors and write a research paper. My students today...if I graded for grammar, none of them would get above a C, if that. I have some papers due next week, and I guarantee you at least one is going to read like a text message. (If I get any real howlers, I'll post them up here to be mocked horribly--with the names erased, of course. Assuming they remember to put their names on the paper--two students last semester forgot that important fact.)

What the NEA and other teachers' unions have done is insisted on teaching "diversity" at the expense of teaching. When I was growing up (ugh, I feel ancient), teachers were more concerned that we got a good education, not if we felt good about ourselves. That was left to the parents. While I had some really terrible teachers--including one that was physically abusive--most were great, and I learned a lot, as I already mentioned. If I acted up, and I did, I got sent to detention or got a long talk with the principal, and there was hell to pay when I got home. Today, if a teacher so much as gives Little Timmy Snowflake a bad grade because he's a bratty little turd who flicks his boogers at other students, that teacher might get sued. High school teachers aren't allowed to teach history as it was, only as they're told it must be--so students graduate from high school thinking things are true that simply aren't.

That in itself is bad enough, that in the name of feel-good academics we're graduating functional illiterates. But then the unions insist--as they did here--on astronomical salaries for their teachers. I'm all for high salaries for teachers. But $90 an hour to help out students after class? That's ridiculous! No school is going to pay that kind of money. Hell, I stay after class to help my students and don't get paid extra for it. The unions are putting the school in an impossible position, and then dare to claim that it's the school's fault.

The students are caught in the middle of all this. None of this is going to help the students learn.

What both sides need to do here is, to quote Tallahassee, nut up or shut up. The school needs to quit using a shotgun where a scalpel is called for. The unions need to get out of the way and let teachers teach, and let administrators administrate.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"I'm turning into Miss Yukari"

[Alkaren Hyralt]

sentinel28a, on Feb 24 2010, 10:23 PM, said:

post here

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"I'm turning into Miss Yukari"

Man, I really have no response to that outside of: D:

Though I was kinda just seeking your input as a teacher as a whole. I'm not sure if I knew you taught college...

Though I have thought the teachers union abuses their leverage a little too much...


But at the same time, down here our..school system is a bit different. As has been highlighted by the (somewhat) recent news about our board and adopting of history standers so to speak.

[sentinel28a]

Alkaren Hyralt, on Feb 25 2010, 05:35 AM, said:

Man, I really have no response to that outside of: D:

Though I was kinda just seeking your input as a teacher as a whole. I'm not sure if I knew you taught college...

Though I have thought the teachers union abuses their leverage a little too much...


But at the same time, down here our..school system is a bit different. As has been highlighted by the (somewhat) recent news about our board and adopting of history standers so to speak.

Oh? What standards are those?

As far as Miss Yukari goes...I don't drink like her, but I'm probably just as immature and crazy. I was teaching my anime course this morning, and we were talking about Hokusai, the great Japanese woodblock artist...and I ended up talking about "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife," which is basically the first known tentacle porn. My students took that about as well as you'd think. (A combination of and and , with a little bit of .)

It could be worse...I could be like Mr. Kimura.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"No, Kitsu, I am not crossplaying as Miss Yukari this year"

[Alkaren Hyralt]

sentinel28a, on Feb 24 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Oh? What standards are those?

As far as Miss Yukari goes...I don't drink like her, but I'm probably just as immature and crazy. I was teaching my anime course this morning, and we were talking about Hokusai, the great Japanese woodblock artist...and I ended up talking about "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife," which is basically the first known tentacle porn. My students took that about as well as you'd think. (A combination of and and , with a little bit of .)

It could be worse...I could be like Mr. Kimura.

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"No, Kitsu, I am not crossplaying as Miss Yukari this year"

I really have no idea as to whom you are referring to, sir.

As to what's going on here..uh... +looks for link+ Well this works

Just read through the crazy going on in my beloved state...Gov. Goodhair making us look like idiots in front of everyone :<

tl;dr- the boards wants more creationism in the textbooks, and more about republican leadership and less about pesky presidents like Washington and Lincoln (the first republican president ironically...), and put a heavy christian tone to all public school learning.

[sentinel28a]

Alkaren Hyralt, on Feb 25 2010, 04:49 AM, said:

I really have no idea as to whom you are referring to, sir.

As to what's going on here..uh... +looks for link+ Well this works

Just read through the crazy going on in my beloved state...Gov. Goodhair making us look like idiots in front of everyone :<

tl;dr- the boards wants more creationism in the textbooks, and more about republican leadership and less about pesky presidents like Washington and Lincoln (the first republican president ironically...), and put a heavy christian tone to all public school learning.

Ugh. My current leanings are more towards Republicans (mainly because the Democrats have torqued me off that bad), but even I think this is a dumb idea. Creationism is fine, but should be taught alongside evolution--let the student make the choice which they believe.

Or they could do something really radical--combine the two, like Darwin always intended. The history books forget that Darwin never intended to replace God--merely prove the existence of an overarching, divine plan, if you like. Staunch Anglicans in the 19th Century really aren't radical atheists.

Hell, just tell history as what it is. We've had some great Republican Presidents (Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Reagan) and some great Democrats too (Cleveland, FDR, Kennedy). And what about Democrat Republicans (Jefferson)?

You don't know who Mr. Kimura is? Go rent Azumanga Daioh, NOW!

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"Immediately!"

[Kitsu-chan]

sentinel28a, on Feb 24 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Ben Da Mad Irishman
"No, Kitsu, I am not crossplaying as Miss Yukari this year"

Damn & here I was looking for reference pics.

[wrexness]

sentinel28a, on Feb 24 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

I was teaching my anime course this morning, and we were talking about Hokusai, the great Japanese woodblock artist...and I ended up talking about "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife," which is basically the first known tentacle porn. My students took that about as well as you'd think. (A combination of and and , with a little bit of .)

I'm a little embarrassed, but I knew exactly what you were talking about as soon as you mentioned that title... Oh Wikipedia... orz Thanks a lot, now I'll have the image of that woodblock in my head all day at work...

Anywho, I don't think there's anyone who will say that education doesn't need to be reformed, but I agree that this is not the appropriate way to go about it. (Though one small note, all teachers are fired, but officially they can rehire up to 50% of them.) I think you're right on, to assume that the teachers are 100% to blame is outright false and a mistake because they're going to lose some really valuable teachers in the process. Do some of them need to go? Probably, but a teacher can only do so much by themselves. To properly educate a child you need not only a good teacher, but also quality administration and parents at home that will push the child. If you're lacking any of these, it's going to hurt the child.

I should also point out that I really despise standardized tests and the method through which they determine which schools require drastic measures. I don't think you can use blanket solutions to solve larger, more complex problems such as these. The standardized tests force teachers to teach the test instead of teaching the kids right. I think you need to give kids a truly balanced education covering varying fields and topics that may not necessarily be on the test but could perhaps broaden the kids' knowledge base and make them more well-rounded people. (Related note: stop eliminating recess dammit!)

Not to mention that using the bottom 5% is a horrible guideline as well. What happens when the bottom 5% of schools in the state are still in the top 90% of the country? Or what happens when ALL of the schools in the state are in the bottom 10% of the country? You're telling me that the people in the first scenario are really so "poorly" performing that they have to consider firing all the teachers ahead of the "good" teachers in the second scenario?

Onto the slight sidetrack of creationism, I have no issue with it being taught in school depending on how it's taught. If it's taught in more of a social studies style, more like in a history or a philosophy class, then it's fine. It's no different than touching on Islam or Christianity doing the Crusades, or Judaism when going over the Holocaust. You can give context without preaching, and I have no problem with that.

However, if you're teaching it as a science? Uh uh, no way. At best it's a pseudo-science, at worst it's anti-science. True science has the goal of discovering the truth regardless of what it may be, while Creationism tries to push its own ideas regardless of what the truth is. That's not science, that's a philosophy - a belief. Not to mention the core of science is being able to produce consistant results through repeatable tests, which Creationism can't do until Jesus comes back. XD

This post has been edited by wrexness: 25 February 2010 - 09:24 AM

[Alkaren Hyralt]

Oh the teacher from Azumanga...xD Sorry, I know who you're refering too..just the name didn't click...you know after so many animes, characters names just kinda all blend together..

I'll make a more detailed response when I'm not busy at work. xD

[klange]

sentinel28a, on Feb 25 2010, 01:01 AM, said:

You don't know who Mr. Kimura is? Go rent Azumanga Daioh, NOW!

I think watching this video should just about cover it.

[kahad]

klange, on Feb 25 2010, 01:15 PM, said:

I think watching this video should just about cover it.

[Valkyrie]

klange, on Feb 25 2010, 01:15 PM, said:

I think watching this video should just about cover it.

And to think - this same man has a daughter of his own, and a wife who has more air in her head than a hot air balloon. Who woulda thunk it?

On school vs. teachers - I hope that school at least rehires the good apples out of that pack they canned. I wonder what they plan to do in the meantime insofar as classes?

[Professor_Hojo @_@]

Saphrinka, on Feb 25 2010, 02:36 PM, said:

I wonder what they plan to do in the meantime insofar as classes?

School's out for summa!!!

[Kaay-chan]

klange, on Feb 25 2010, 01:15 PM, said:

I think watching this video should just about cover it.

...somehow, that song started playing him my head even before I clicked that link......>.>;;;;;


All I can say is 1) I'm glad I went to private school and 2) I'm glad I'm in college (even if my Japanese professor is nuts and counts each missed homework assignment as an absence when four unexcused absences in her class result in an F [/rant])

Like I said, I went to private school my entire life (because my parents don't have much faith in the CPS), so I really don't want to give my opinion one way or another. I do know that if my highschool tried to fire all of the teachers, alumni would probably end up storming back raging, 'cuz were were just that kinda school. Heck, half the faculty graduated from our school. I think the problem goes a lot deeper than just the people though. The entire public school system is broken. Maybe I'm just being biased and a bit ignorant; I don't know how different the public school system is from how private schools run things, but you don't really hear about how America's private schools are failing the children.