[Jack_of_hearts]

OK! so! Trying to make Alice's scythe from Pandora Hearts pic here
(not sure if I'm doing Alice or B-Rabbit, but either way I want the scythe )
I want to try and make it proportional to me (I'm 5'8", so imagine the size... ). I've got the IRT problem figured out (It'll be collapsible with the head being removable shorter for in the convention center, and bigger for pics), but the material is where I'm lacking in ideas. It's gotta be light, cuz I'm lazy I'm not lugging around a giant hunk of wood. But it's gotta be durable, cuz I'll tear foam apart before you could blink I'm thinking moldable plastic, but where to get it, and how to work with it are where I'm lost.
Ideas? Tips?

[obakasan]

Would foam-core board be too easliy damaged for what you have in mind?

Double-wall (or thicker) corregated cardboard?

Wire frame (or similar) with heat shrink plastic type stuff, or stiched cloth/fabric with a stiffening coating... I'm thinking along the lines of what is used for flying model airplane wings... (or WWI era aircraft)

Unfortunately at the moment all that I can think of that is "lightweight" is also relatively fragile/damageable.

[Jack_of_hearts]

hmmm... i like the wire idea, and I like the stitching idea... i could use that hardening expanding foam stuff... actually, that stitching idea sounds real good... only problem then would be how to make it detachable... (I plan on using a screw in idea, like a pool rod).

[obakasan]

I'm not familiar with the shape or size of the item you are making, but would the shaft/handle shape/diameter allow you to use something like PVC pipe? Attaching the blade part onto an "end cap" or chunk of pipe with an adapter or the like would create something that could just be slipped on and off, but probably be tight-fitting enough to stay in place. May be less work than a screw attachement, and less demanding of precision.

[Jack_of_hearts]

same principal I had in mind, but the question is more how to put a base (either a hole or a screw in piece) in the pillow/scythe head to attach it to a pole.

[obakasan]

It's probably going to depend on what you use as a "frame" for the blade, the inner support structure.

I could see using a chunk of PVC pipe inside the blade (vertical) to attach whatever you use to build the shape of the blade. Say if you used foam-core board or cardboard, glued to the chunk of pipe to form the basic shape, then cover with the "bag" that you then fill with your expanding foam. The weak point here would be the glued edges though.
If you used stiff wire as an inner shaped frame, you could bend the ends down so they lie parallel to the pipe, then you pile on the duct tape or whatever to hold that shaped framework to the pipe. Slip your covering over the frame and foam fill. This is all based on your thoughts of using the expanding foam however and if that proves to be a dud something else may have to be used.

There is a "seam" or a joint I see in the pic betweenteh back of the blade and the long curved section, so maybe that back part could be made from shaped wood, or carved styrofoam. Wood would be stronger.

As for the screwing together part. I did do something once that involved using what is called a T-nut. Drill a hole in the wood and pound in this threaded "nut" that has sharp prongs on it so it it provides the threads. Only catch was that it was applied to the opposite side of a board so screwing it down helped hold it in place. If you use a solid block of wood you'd have to attach T-nut to "outside" end and it could just fall apart... Hmmm... Okay... Could make back part out of a block of wood, use a hole saw to make opening though piece so that end of bolt you have sticking out of handle would be accessible so to speak and mount the T-nut "inside" the piece... That would work... May need to use threaded rode instead of a bolt...

I'm thinking as I type... And I may not be communicating well in words the thing I'm envisioning...

Also: I would swear at one time I saw or had what looked like a bolt (threaded) on one end, and wood screw threads on the other end... You would "screw" wood end into wood, but be able to use the end part that then stuck out to "bolt" things to (using nuts). Need to check the hardware store...

I may have to sleep on it... Maybe find a graphics program to do some sketches...

[this_chick25]

Hmm... maybe I could help... here's a pic of spazchan holding a scythe I made. It's VERY sturdy, is 4-foot legal (detachable at the handle) and it only weighs about 5-7 lbs (maybe less, but it's kind of unwieldy to weigh properly). I also made it entirely out of one material, not counting the screws. PM me (or Millions_Knives) for details.

This post has been edited by this_chick25: 22 November 2009 - 11:44 AM

[Millions_Knives]

its made of 3 peaces of pvc sheeting, a nob, pvc pipe, four screws a pipe connector, and paint
it looks simpler to me

[Jack_of_hearts]

how do you work with the pvc sheets?
though, i am leaning towards a wire mesh filled with foam and covered in vinyl.

[this_chick25]

To make that scythe, I cut the pieces out with a hot knife, glued them together (clamped to eliminate any gapping), and then smoothed the entire shape out with a Dremel and sanding sponge. I also used my Dremel to tool the "sharpened" edge into it.

Also, if you want to use foam, you could go another method--carving a block of pink foam instead of filling an empty shape with expanding foam. I made a tutorial here that you could probably use some of (like steps one and four). It'd be easier to carve a from solid shape and reinforce the outside surface than to build a hollow form and fill it to make it solid, imo.

This post has been edited by this_chick25: 22 November 2009 - 01:57 PM

[obakasan]

Just back from Home Depot. (Needed PVC for sump pump drain project.)

The screw/bolt things I had in mind are called "hanger bolts." Find them in the wood screw section. 99 cents bag of 2. If you used a chunk of wood for handle/shaft (or any other part made out of wood that would need to be attached to something) it could provide an attachement point for blade section/topper, or for joining sections together after your cue stick concept. Just have to figure out a way to either use a T-nut or secure a nut into other piece so it doesn't come loose or just spin. Setscrew?

The pink foam will be found in the home insulation section. Runs about $10-16 if I recall for a 4' x 8' sheet. Comes up to 2" thick. I personally haven't workd with it but others here have. Recommend against styrofoam (white) as it "flakes" badly. TC25 is no doubt far more expert than I on this subject.

Don't know if IRT would bug you with the 4' rule if you are just carrying prop thru hallways unassembled, say to a photoshoot or masquerade, but I would assume the worst. And I don't know how they would measure the curved blade section. I'd plan each "module" to be under 4' at longest dimension (even "corner to corner").

My personal opinions and thoughts.

[Millions_Knives]

ooh no
obakasan i didnt mean to offend you
it just looks like what T_C made

[this_chick25]

IRT ops have a 4-foot ruler, and they measure all dimensions, so the scythe's head would be measured end-to-end, and the height to the staff. A thorough op would also measure the diagonal dimension (tip of blade to end of attached handle section), so you'd want to make sure all are legal.

[obakasan]

Millions_Knives, on Nov 22 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

ooh no
obakasan i didnt mean to offend you
it just looks like what T_C made

I don't see any offense anywhere...

Just telling you what I found. Where I found it. Resource guide.

And the fact she and you have no doubt have had more experience with this sort of thing. Recent experience. I did most of my work years ago and am pretty rusty.

Both of you are most helpful to those in need. I'm just putting in my 2 cents vs your combined 98 cents worth.

[Jack_of_hearts]

yay! dollars worth of advice! lol

I worry about using foam, because I am a total clutz. My luck I wouldn't even get it out of my house before snapping it. I do agree after thinking it through though, that would be a LOT of expanding foam... But perhaps use the solid foam to carve it out, and wire mesh over it? I do like the hanger bolt and t-nut idea too.

[this_chick25]

Unless you buy the terribly thin foam (1/2 inch), you aren't very likely to break it--I'm a klutz too, and for the 2" foam you pretty much have to score a break line in it, then kick it (like a "break the door down" kick ) to break it. Don't worry about messing up, either--the sheets are 4 feet by 8 feet, so that's lots of material to practice with!

Just make sure to bring (or buy) a box-cutter or saw so you can actually fit the foam into your vehicle.

[obakasan]

^
Yes. Transportation is often the hardest part. Getting that 10' length of 2" PVC in my car recently made me ever so thankful for that little "door" in the back seat I could open. Still came awful close to the windshield... And a 4x8 sheet of foam... well... borrow a big vehicle. Some stores may be willing to cut a larger sheet for you.

Oh, and the 2" foam is indeed prettty darned sturdy. You *may* even be able to use a T-nut/hanger bolt type of attachement (or any kind of bolt & nut attachement) with it, but there will be a danger of snapping it at the joint. It will depend on what you use as a haft/handle. The hanger bolts only give you about 1.5" worth of thread on each end. If you use a hollow piece of PVC for the handle so one can wangle using threaded rod instead, you can make that rod pretty danged long.

Maybe if you used a block of wood for a "core" of the blade part and found a good way to glue or otherwise attatch the foam to it, you could still drill some hefty holes in the wood and have it stay strong for the joint. And actually having having a "breakaway" "feature" on the blade (assuming it's foam) could be a good safety measure. You may have to face re-gluing the foam to the wood support core, but it beats someone getting hurt.

Hmm, just had another thought with PVC as handle. Using a "pipe thread" adapter on end of pipe and attacing what's called a nipple (plumbing department) on the head assembly... might screw right in. Will have to mull that one around a bit.

I used velcro a few times to assemble things (so they could be removed/taken apart) but it proved to be too "floppy" especially when used on adjoining flat hard surfaces.

[Jack_of_hearts]

the pipe thread with pvc works quite well, I've used it before for actual plumbing. We have a large pipe water system throughout our barn. transportation wouldn't be a problem either, cuz i'll just take a pickup. I'm thinking if the foam is that sturdy though, wouldn't I just be able to put the "female end" into the foam with some rubber cement (since hot glue would end badly with foam) and have the "male end" on the pvc? (other option was to find a way to secure pvc endings, or something to the same effect onto a wooden shaft, just so it'd be less "floppy")

[obakasan]

I *think* that if you use the thick pink foam, you may get away without any additional support for the connector, but enough flexing/movement may enlarge or weaken the hole in the foam. Don't know. Might be worth experimenting with.
The plumbing nipple I envisioned is male/male, essentially just a short hunk of metal pipe with threads on both ends. If you make it long enough (an actual chunk of pipe as opposed to a short nipple) it could go all the way through the foam chunk bottom to top. Probably hold better (more surface area for adhesive to stick for one thing).

I don't see any reason why you couldn't stick a PVC adapter thing on to the end of a wood shaft (handrail?) as an attachement. Maybe sink some screws through the sides of the adapter and into the wood to hold.

Might be worth the time to experiment with.

[Millions_Knives]

oh ya you dont want point loads in foam
it going to need a transition material
like wood or pipe
a good way to make a cavity for the pipe or wood in the foam
is to warm the pipe and press it in to the foam

[Jack_of_hearts]

what if i put a wooden rod through the foam (top to bottom), which would hold one end of the screw-together part, and put screws through the foam to hold the wooden rod in place? I'm seeing a far too easily snapped apart head if I make it from two materials.

[obakasan]

My initial reaction would be that you would be concentrating too much force or "stress points" with the screws.
Glue or adhesive would spread the stress out along the whole length of the rod. Plus you'd need to add some honking big washers to keep screws from pulling through (fender washers).

Need to get off my duff and find a drawing program so I can illustrate some ideas... Hmmm Paint is still on these new computer systems... been a while but... Just LOVE doing things one pixel at a time...

[Millions_Knives]

my statement of point loads also refers to "stress points"
ha ha ha
to many physics classes

[obakasan]

Millions_Knives, on Nov 27 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

my statement of point loads also refers to "stress points"
ha ha ha
to many physics classes

Yep. Takes a while to relearn regular understandable-by-the-rest-of-the-planet English after some of those classes.

Scott Adams does a great job lampooning "business speak" in Dilbert strip for example.

[Kitsu-chan]

I'm glad I found this thread, I'm planning Alice as well & am about to start making my scythe.

[obakasan]

Cool. Maybe you two can duke it out scythe vs scythe and see who wins at ACEN.

[Jack_of_hearts]

RAWR!!!!!!!! THAT WAS MY AWSOME-NESS IDEA!!!! RAWR!!!!
lol jk jk lmao! that'd be fun! we can skit! one be will the other alice! XD

[Millions_Knives]

i call T_cs
is strong
and functional

[obakasan]

Millions_Knives, on Nov 29 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

i call T_cs
is strong
and functional

So T_cs is strong and functional you say?

[this_chick25]

::blushes::

Well, my Bloodblade would cut down (and through) any cardboard or foam scythe... but I don't really like to brag.