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Helmet Construction

#31 User is offline   obakasan 

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:12 AM

Sadly many times the originals don't survive. Lost wax casting almost seems depressing to me... Never could bring myself to do it.

But excellent! Step by step. We will all await and anticipate viewing final results.
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#32 User is offline   opimus.rm 

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:05 AM

The head spike can't be longer than 6 inches. What will the head spike made of?
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#33 User is offline   this_chick25 

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 05:39 PM

Also, dull the point on it a bit. It can't be sharp at all.
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#34 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 11:47 AM

View Postopimus.rm, on Nov 6 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

The head spike can't be longer than 6 inches. What will the head spike made of?



View Postthis_chick25, on Nov 6 2009, 05:39 PM, said:

Also, dull the point on it a bit. It can't be sharp at all.


Don't worry guys, I'll make sure to follow all of the rules for costume protrusions. The helmet will most likely be made out of fiberglass, the spike will probably be a complicated design made out of lots of poster board, so it is strong enough for me to fiberglass over.

It seems the chop-mat I'm using doesn't take kindly to sudden or sharp turns/folds, so it won't be very pointy in the first place, but other wise I'll make sure to not sand them down as such.

However, I'm now faced with a new conundrum. The chest and back of wargreymon. his chest/abs appear to be like a knight's chest plate armor, and his back seems to be a completely connected set of pieces, for a very oddly shaped plate armor as well.

I was thinking the front would have to be either several pieces of fiberglass for each Pectoral/abdominal and not have them glued together, so that they could slide over each other to allow movement. Similar idea for the back armor. individual pieces with shapes similar to the armor, just not connected to each other. kinda like the concept of the new batman armor from Dark Knight.
Either that, or I'd attempt to make some sort of muscle suit out of silver/grey fabric.

I'll post pics of those pieces soon, in class right now. =D
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#35 User is offline   Millions_Knives 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:18 PM

View Postfntmalchemist, on Nov 10 2009, 11:47 AM, said:

I was thinking the front would have to be either several pieces of fiberglass for each Pectoral/abdominal and not have them glued together, so that they could slide over each other to allow movement. Similar idea for the back armor. individual pieces with shapes similar to the armor, just not connected to each other. kinda like the concept of the new batman armor from Dark Knight.
Either that, or I'd attempt to make some sort of muscle suit out of silver/grey fabric.


this sounds best for the armor

but for the flesh
id make a mold like the fiber glass
but switch fiberglass for cotton cloth
and resin with latex
thats how i made these
and this
its more flexible than youd think
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#36 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:39 PM

here are the pictures I promised
Here is his chestplate,

and here is his back.

interesting suggestion Knives,

were you suggesting the cloth and latex as a way of making a body suit of fake skin for my arms and legs etc, or were you suggesting for my chest plate armor?
as for the materials, by "cotton cloth" I'd presume you mean any basic piece of all cotton fabric. and as for latex, does it have to be legit just latex, like what people make masks out of, or can it be something like liquid latex body paint, which i have heard of being used on fabric for something similar before. and last but not least, since my arms and legs /chest plate (depending on what you were referring to) will be either orange or silver, do you suggest a colored fabric and non-colored latex, or do you think white fabric with a colored latex will work?

thanks for all the help!
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#37 User is offline   obakasan 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:42 PM

Attach plates to an undergarment in a layered format? Articulated plate.

Arrrgh... phooey. And I've lost contact with the SCA Armorer's Guild... Although I think I can still get a hold of a local blacksmith who I think may have done armor... <sigh> so long ago...
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#38 User is offline   Millions_Knives 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:53 PM

agrees with obakasan about the fiberglass amor

the latex would be for the arms and legs
any natural cloth is fine
but higher thread count fabrics require less work
buy latex roofing patch
its way cheaper

but not a bodysuit
just in places you need it
be sure to make them big enough to easily get in and out
it does not stretch or breath
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#39 User is offline   obakasan 

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:01 PM

Dang, all I'm finding is articulated gauntlets, elbow,leg, and knee armor in my on-line searches right now. I *know* I've seen articulated breastplates... somewhere...

If you do attach "armor" pieces to an undergarment, you will want a sturdy undergarment. Those peices can be heavy (depending on what you make them out of) and cause most cloth to sag. Even cardboard can cause a droop. The few references I'm finding to plate armor have you attaching to leather.

Last time I helped with a "cat tail" we used a heavy-ish leather belt to prevent sag. Wasn't going to do well attaching to clothing. Never underestimate the effects of weight and geometry.
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#40 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:24 PM

BUMP

But seriously, I've got more question.
(mainly directed at Knives, Angel, and This_chick) all help welcome as usual

I've been testing fiberglassing, and gotten somewhat proficient at it. I have yet to use the full process of making a gelcoat mold of the exterior, then fiberglassing the inside of that, although I should, my direct application of fiberglass to the exterior of my molds has indeed been not so friendly. (sagging, pulling, etc.)

I've also been looking into the ideas of vacuum forming, but I have not tested that yet.

Either way, I need to find a better material to make my initial molds from, else all the horrid imperfections will be translated directly to the finished piece, which was normally hidden when I tried direct exterior fiberglassing.

I've been looking into materials such as Sculpey, Fimo, clays that can be cured in my oven at home. In your experience, do these materials lend well to
A) sanding after being baked?
B ) withstanding the pressure and heat of vacuum forming?
C) withstanding the chemical barrage of gelcoat and or fiberglass resin?

(obviously, I'd be fiberglassing/ thermo-forming once baked/cured.)

Thanks for your help guys!
PRELIMINARY SLOTS:
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projects:
(I'll get back to you when I've started.....) -Greed "ultimate shield" (FMA) -Wargreymon (Digimon)
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#41 User is offline   Millions_Knives 

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:51 PM

there is a protective wax made for fiber glass
mold release wax
whether it better than normal wax is debatable
but it will stop the pulling and sagging you describe
you may also be taking the fiber glass off to soon

i like to use sturdy everyday objects as molds
but if i have to do it myself
i use plaster of paris
if your breaking molds of plaster
you need more practice
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#42 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:59 PM

View PostMillions_Knives, on Jan 16 2010, 11:51 PM, said:

there is a protective wax made for fiber glass
mold release wax
whether it better than normal wax is debatable
but it will stop the pulling and sagging you describe
you may also be taking the fiber glass off to soon


it isn't sagging when i remove the fiberglass, it is sagging off of the exterior of the mold as it dries, it seems to have trouble adhering to a near upside down surface, the hardening into a bulbous and warped shape, I suppose it is what I get for glassing on the outside of a mold, instead of the inside.

I take it you suggest plaster of paris for molds, I'll look into that as an option as well.
Thanks for the advice.

If anyone has experience with Sculpey or Fimo, I'd still like to hear about it, for reference, if not use in this project!

This post has been edited by fntmalchemist: 17 January 2010 - 12:21 AM

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#43 User is offline   Millions_Knives 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:23 AM

sry that sounded rude

fiberglass needs support
how about adding the fiberglass in sections
do a part that can just sit on your mold
let it harden
sand it so it can grip
turn the mold
and add more until the mold is covered
then slowly add layers
it will take more time

but the other option
is to make smaller section molds
then put them together
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#44 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:50 AM

View PostMillions_Knives, on Jan 17 2010, 12:23 AM, said:

sry that sounded rude

fiberglass needs support
how about adding the fiberglass in sections
do a part that can just sit on your mold
let it harden
sand it so it can grip
turn the mold
and add more until the mold is covered
then slowly add layers
it will take more time

but the other option
is to make smaller section molds
then put them together


No, You're never rude knives! and I assure my posting was in the best regards as well;
just some simple mis-communication, it happens.

Using a whole mold but only applying sections at a time is an intriguing suggestion, I am indeed temped to try this with what I left from my previous attempts!

The plaster of paris definitely looks like it'll be a cheaper option to Sculpey, However it's highly viscous nature seems that it would lend best to putting on top of semi-accurate molds to finish off their accuracy, instead of making a mold just out of plaster.

Am I correct in this assumption?
PRELIMINARY SLOTS:
soon to be producing Digimon Tag/ Crest Repros. Need a head count of anyone who may be interested.

Permanents:
-Sniper(TF2 BLU)
projects:
(I'll get back to you when I've started.....) -Greed "ultimate shield" (FMA) -Wargreymon (Digimon)
SNIPAH!

#45 User is offline   Millions_Knives 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:07 AM

ha ha ha
k
~rubs back of head~
oh yes this true about plaster
youll need to sand or coat it
this is what the wax is for

oh and your right about the semi-accurate molds
i like to use a support mesh or wire
then door screen and/or cheep scrap cloth
as a base for the plaster
the rest is sculpting

as for vacuum forming
your in a bit deep for acen
it requires a whole different set of tools and techniques (money and time)
so id stick with what your doing
at least this for now
want to learn about cosplay materials? click here->my youtube cosplay tips and tricks<-click here

#46 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:25 AM

View PostMillions_Knives, on Jan 17 2010, 01:07 AM, said:

oh and your right about the semi-accurate molds
i like to use a support mesh or wire
then door screen and/or cheep scrap cloth
as a base for the plaster
the rest is sculpting

as for vacuum forming
your in a bit deep for acen
it requires a whole different set of tools and techniques (money and time)
so id stick with what your doing
at least this for now


Alright, I can kinda see how that is supposed to work out, I'll be working with it soon enough I suppose.

not to worry so much about being ready for ACen, I'm planning on doing most of this work this summer, so it'll be for ACen 2011.
yeah.... college dorm isn't very conducive for any sort of crafting work.

as always,
Thanks for the excellent advice!
PRELIMINARY SLOTS:
soon to be producing Digimon Tag/ Crest Repros. Need a head count of anyone who may be interested.

Permanents:
-Sniper(TF2 BLU)
projects:
(I'll get back to you when I've started.....) -Greed "ultimate shield" (FMA) -Wargreymon (Digimon)
SNIPAH!

#47 User is offline   fntmalchemist 

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:57 PM

I've been pondering on the possibilities of the articulated breastplate that was suggested earlier, and instead of mounting each individual piece on a heavy piece of leather like Obakasan suggested, I'm thinking I might be able to hang them, from webbing straps, and each section dangles from the one above it, and wear it like a pair of suspenders. It would end up having counterweight because of the shield/wings in the back, as well as the sectioned off back armor.

I do expect the back and front to not be of even weight, especially due to the wings. those may not be fiberglass, or I may attatch those by extra means. but to help balance it out, under Wargreymon's black spedo-like crotch, I was thinking of wearing a climbing harness, to which these articulated plates on suspenders could be solidly attached.

Do these Ideas sound good to any of you guys?

as far as the shield/ wings go, I'm not too familiar with the chest-harnesses that are used for heavy items for that area, if anyone has experience with wings, parachutes, heavy backpacks, etc. any help you got on that is certainly needed!

Thanks!
PRELIMINARY SLOTS:
soon to be producing Digimon Tag/ Crest Repros. Need a head count of anyone who may be interested.

Permanents:
-Sniper(TF2 BLU)
projects:
(I'll get back to you when I've started.....) -Greed "ultimate shield" (FMA) -Wargreymon (Digimon)
SNIPAH!

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