[Kaay-chan]

Ohki, on Apr 14 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

Also just for the record, hardcore fans of series WILL actually buy the Japanese tankobon and/or R2 DVDs just to support the series, even if they don't understand Japanese and/or don't have a DVD player that can play R2. I actually have a copy of the limited version of the first disc of Hetalia that I bought to show my support and for the special CD.

@Kaay-chan: Actually, downloading unlicensed titles IS still illegal. Their copyright protects them even in countries that they're not licensed for sale in under the Berne Convention. And yeah, Rurouni Kenshin was expensive back in the day. Pretty much everything was. I remember paying $200 for the first season of Fushigi Yuugi (what was I thinking?).

Yeah, my original wording of that point was "I'm not sure how legit it is, but people who do it usually justify it by saying that...", but then I made the mistake of rereading the first page looking for the quote on why the distributors or failing, and I noticed someone else had said that it wasn't illegal, and no one disputed it, so I changed it. =P

But even if that is the case, it's not like sites, such as a certain site in particular that I'm thinking of right now (but don't want to mention in the forums because I'm not sure if I'd get in trouble or not and I don't want to risk it), that only have unlicensed anime, are any sort of secret, or anything, and if there was some sort of absolutely serious problem with it, they would have been shut down long ago.

[Sir Viver]

Hey, how about downloading Tokyo Mew Mew? Since it was, you know, a completely different series from Mew Mew Power.

[Kaay-chan]

Sir Viver, on Apr 14 2010, 02:33 AM, said:

Hey, how about downloading Tokyo Mew Mew? Since it was, you know, a completely different series from Mew Mew Power.

Mew Mew Power? Why, whatever could that be? That sounds like a horrible horrible bastardization of Tokyo Mew Mew, but surely such a thing doesn't exist....*willfully denies 4Kids's existence*

I think that's technically a no go, since it is indeed licensed.....Although, I used to actually follow that 'cuz I had nothing better to watch on Saturday mornings, and I seem to recall them taking it off air....do they even still own the license for that?

[Ishoku Osero]

I admit I download anime as it comes out in Japan, but I also admit that when it comes here, I or one of my friends (or at times, every last one of us individually, if the show is just THAT amazing... which it happens to be more often than I'm sure anyone would think ) buy the anime. I will say that I'm usually the manga buyer, which works also since the manga tends to come out here first (and I work at a bookstore, so I'll get the volumes generally either the day I see them in the back room or the day after we receive them, depending on when I'm working ).

I'm actually rather surprised that no-one's mentioned the same reason I have for downloading anime as it comes out in Japan - the merchandise. Usually figures and other related goods will pop-up at some point while the show is still airing, and by the time the series hits the US (if of course, it ever does ), EVERYTHING is long gone and way over-priced for second-hand auctions on sites like Ebay (where you're not even sure that you're going to get the real thing... I just witnessed a friend the other day that had purchased a K'anu figure from Ebay for somewhere around 150-200 dollars, and it was still a fake ). Yes, I'm impatient for the anime to come out here, but it's not because I 'so can't wait to watch it ', it's because I'd like to at least see a few episodes and be able to get at least some merch of my favorite characters from my favorite shows before it's too late. By the time they come here, it's too late. And not all shows are on CR, either.

I do rather like my merch, and I have quite a bit of it considering the size of my paychecks, so I'll continue to watch it as it comes out in Japan, whether it be because CR got ahold of it or even if they didn't, because had I waited until what will now be THIS fall to watch Toradora, I wouldn't have gotten my adorable cospa shirt. Same for K-on! and every. single. related. item. that I've bought so far (God, the pre-orders never end... ), To-Love-RU (of which I of course, now own the actual 'boxsets' of ), etc etc etc.

True, I may be one of the few that actually buys the stuff when it comes out here, much less having such 'odd' reasoning for watching it as it comes out overseas, but there it is. Not all of us that download never buy, and one of my really good buddies that also watches the stuff as it comes out in Japan owns nearly every single show that's ever been released in the US (our anime marathons are an absolute blast ). He's even gone out of his way to find all of the Sailor Moon series that's ever come out here. I just wish between him and I, we could find the first two seasons of Digimon... though I'm not sure they ever got a DVD/VHS release, so I might just have to shell out the cash for the original Japanese version at about 200-300 dollars per season because I can't handle not having Digimon Adventure and Digimon 02 in my collection.

[kenkendazo]

Ohki, on Apr 14 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

Also just for the record, hardcore fans of series WILL actually buy the Japanese tankobon and/or R2 DVDs just to support the series, even if they don't understand Japanese and/or don't have a DVD player that can play R2.

First 3 special editions of Kara No Kyoukai ^^;
Also, Computers d[o] allow you to switch between regions a few times. With all the game systems and dvd players I have access to, my computer is set to R2 and has never been changed back.

This post has been edited by Suigetsu: 14 April 2010 - 08:48 AM

[technoBC]

I don't download anime.

Crunchyroll isn't the only site of its kind.
There are other sites dedicated to that sort of thing and that's where I watch them.
If crunchyroll (sucks, btw) is legal then so are the sites I visit; not the cheapo ones that are obviously stealing.

The only reason I haven't bought them is because they aren't in America yet.
I'm the rare kind of person that will watch/read a whole series for free and then buy it.
I finished Skip*Beat online and then bought the remaining books.
I'm also the kind of person who doesn't like digital readers.
I want the acutal book.

Things just get too heated up when I read and I don't want to stop.
I'll usually try and find the manga online and if I do, I read the whole thing and then buy it.
The only time I don't buy them is when they're not available in the US.
I do make a note of it, though.



Also, the way of the majority is not the way of all.
Just because the majority of people won't do what you think, it doesn't mean some won't.

[kenkendazo]

technoBC, on Apr 14 2010, 09:52 AM, said:

I want the actual book.

Yes...I would be a terrible Buddhist. I have to hold onto something. It just feels unnatural to use a device to read. It takes away all the fun, smell of the paper, crispness of each page turn, etc. etc...

[technoBC]

Suigetsu, on Apr 14 2010, 09:56 AM, said:

Yes...I would be a terrible Buddhist. I have to hold onto something. It just feels unnatural to use a device to read. It takes away all the fun, smell of the paper, crispness of each page turn, etc. etc...

Oh, definitely.
Defintely.

Plus, paper media is dying out and it's scary D:
I don't want to read off of a screen T-T
It's not just the fact that I want the book, but I have minor astigmatism in one of my eyes and lights give me headaches if I look at them too long.

[Ishoku Osero]

Paper media isn't dying out, there are still thousands upon thousands of people that buy the actual books, and it'll remain that way since there are still a lot of us that think the same way.

I have a couple co-workers that have those e-readers, but they still buy regular books too. They just use the devices for when they travel.

[Kaay-chan]

Suigetsu, on Apr 14 2010, 09:56 AM, said:

Yes...I would be a terrible Buddhist. I have to hold onto something. It just feels unnatural to use a device to read. It takes away all the fun, smell of the paper, crispness of each page turn, etc. etc...

I prefer the actual book, too, which is why I have 250+ volumes of manga sitting around in my bedroom back home (it didn't hurt that my high school was a block away from a Borders). I only just started reading scanslations recently because my college is in the middle of nowhere and the nearest bookstore isn't accessible by someone like me who doesn't have a car. And even then, when I'm at home I make a point of going to the nearest Borders or Barnes and Noble, and I only read three series online, and I have my reasons for that.

This post has been edited by Kaay-chan: 14 April 2010 - 01:46 PM

[this_chick25]

Kankokujin, on Jun 6 2009, 12:39 AM, said:

Hey. I'm all for supporting for legal consumption of anime as you but the fact of the matter is, there's still a lot anime that don't make it here and many most likely never will. You can't say we should miss out just because it's not available for DVD.

Don't forget the accursed DVD region barriers. Even if you can legally buy it and understand it, you can't watch it without tweaked equipment (be it a modded Playstation or a "Region 0" player).

This post has been edited by this_chick25: 14 April 2010 - 01:57 PM

[Ishoku Osero]

Anything region 2 works on a computer. I have quite a few Jrock concert DVDs and every last one of them works on here.

[this_chick25]

Awesome--unless your computer doesn't have a DVD player (not all of us do).

Not to mention, I have one and had no idea that was even a possibility, but I'll try it out now that you have given me a glimmer of hope...

[Ishoku Osero]

I would think all computers these days have a DVD player... unless what you're using is 15 years old and still has a floppy drive. ^^; DVD players tend to come on all stock models.

[Kitana_Matsuri]

I have so much manga on my bookshelf, it's not even funny. I'm seriously going to need a new bookshelf soon. I'm cramming all the manga I buy into any available place where as I usually have everything in alphabetical order. D= Not anymore...

Borders. <3 I adore them over Barnes and Noble. You can find yaoi/shonen ai series only if you shop online at Barnes and Noble. In the store, there is NONE to be found. I'm not even kidding. Every one of their stores is anti-yaoi.

This is why Borders makes my day amazing. No matter which one I go to, yaoi and shonen ai ahoy! There's a huge selection at the one by me too. >3

[june.h]

No, not all region DVD's will work on your DVD-ROM. DVD-ROM's can be region coded too. Some will allow you to change your region code up to 6 times before it's locked.

It's hard to support the industry when licensing costs are phenomenal (anyone ever buy VHS anime back in the early 90's?) and American distributors kind of have to charge higher prices (compared to normal American TV shows) to turn a profit and keep the company alive. Yet it's one of the few ways of keeping the industry alive aside from convention support and product support.

I'll say this about watching free online (particularly anime), it's not always endorsed by the industry (unless coming from the websites directly; I know Bandai and Funi does streaming of certain products) so careful where you tread when saying you support the industry yet watch anime for free online. Legalities of unlicensed fansubs/dubs and now streaming has always been very touchy gray area and lots of websites (YT, Hulu, CR, etc) skate around the gray area. I personally rather have the physical discs directly from the distro for series I end up really enjoying. I hate taking up HDD space or worry about burning stuff and having to be forced to watch stuff on my computer.

Also, owning the Japanese product doesn't always help the American anime industry. If anything, it hurts it a little. Overseas companies don't always take American sales in account for unlicensed products (as actually it's technically illegal; see if your product has a "sale of this DVD/CD outside this region is prohibited" warning). Even though generally no one enforces the legalities of outside region sales, companies can't rely on those sales figures alone to keep a series going on in Japan. Conversely, if there's a means to localize it in America and companies like Funi will see how popular it is by interacting with fans then yes it can, but question is, will you seriously buy the localized American version if it comes out?

[linlindesu]

Ishoku Osero, on Apr 14 2010, 03:00 PM, said:

I would think all computers these days have a DVD player... unless what you're using is 15 years old and still has a floppy drive. ^^; DVD players tend to come on all stock models.

A couple laptop models don't

[Ishoku Osero]

linlindesu, on Apr 14 2010, 03:23 PM, said:

A couple laptop models don't

o.o
That leaves me in a state of shock. I don't know why they wouldn't include something like that on everything, especially with where technology keeps turning these days.
I love your username, btw. >.>


BakaOrochi - That seems pretty strange, too. My friends and I have never had problems like that before. ^^; I wonder if those are on older models or more current ones? I'll have to do some studying up on this stuff, now I'm curious.

[jsieczkar]

linlindesu, on Apr 14 2010, 04:23 PM, said:

A couple laptop models don't

I you sure they were laptops and not netbooks?

[linlindesu]

jsieczkar, on Apr 14 2010, 03:46 PM, said:

I you sure they were laptops and not netbooks?

yep.

[Kitana_Matsuri]

Depends on the model and maker. Though I'm pretty sure the majority if not all current laptops have a DVD compatible drive. Though depending on the data on the disk (import), the code on it might not register so all in all, it's the the hardware you're looking at.

[linlindesu]

Kitana_Matsuri, on Apr 14 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

Depends on the model and maker. Though I'm pretty sure the majority if not all current laptops have a DVD compatible drive. Though depending on the data on the disk (import), the code on it might not register so all in all, it's the the hardware you're looking at.

there's a few programs to get around that , or someone can even permanently change the region code of a cheapo DVD player.

Ishoku Osero, on Apr 14 2010, 03:30 PM, said:

I love your username, btw. >.>

off topic: odd, I always thought it was a bit weeaboo sounding. It was the first thing out of my favorite new gen musumu's mouth so I used it.

This post has been edited by linlindesu: 14 April 2010 - 06:22 PM

[Ohki]

@Suigetsu: My computer is a Frankenstein that my dad's friend built, and it's rather old, too. It actually doesn't have a DVD drive at all.

@Ishoku Osero: That's a huge point for me that I actually forgot to bring up; merchandise. I love figures and the like far too much for my own good, and I learned pretty early on that, with merchandise, waiting to even check out the series until it's licensed and legally available in America is pretty much forfeiting any chance of getting a hold of the good Japanese merchandise for the show.

Using Hetalia as an example again, there has already been a great deal of merchandise released for it, some of which is already next to impossible to find (including the trading mascots Movic put out, the metal zipper pulls, and this really neat world map poster. I have most of the mascots, but even I wasn't fast enough for the zipper pulls or poster, or rather I had no clue where to look for them). The first set of the anime that FUNimation is putting out doesn't hit until fall 2010. By that time I'm sure even more of the merchandise will be impossible to find (the plushies, stick posters of the Axis/Allies in traditional costumes, and maybe even the One Coins if Kotobukiya doesn't do any more rereleases).

...Though sometimes even having never seen the show doesn't stop me. I'm really slow in watching anime, so I still haven't seen any of Gurren Lagann yet (I was a heathen and downloaded it because I'm not entirely sure I'll like it despite pretty much everyone saying it's amazing, and the release confuses the heck out of me), but I went ahead and bought the GIFT 1/5 scale Yoko figure last November. I am weak.

[Dark Spellmaster]

Wow this is an interesting topic, and not really sure if I have much to add in, but I'll give my two cents anyway. I've noticed a lot of people throwing about the word Liscensed and Unlicensed and I'm curious as to how many people actually know what goes on behind this, and how companies like Funi get their product? (It's actually different for Bandai and was partly for Geneon.) I recently took a business course and one of the main features of it was the way that licensing worked, and how much companies get from it.

Apparently, for those who do not know, the basics are boiled down to: Company A makes a prouduct that is liked in their country. Company B notices this and wishes to bring that over to their side of the pond. Compay B has to Bid with Company A to get the product, because Compay A can sell to other Companies for a better price. Once Company B gets the product they have to domesticate it. What that means is that they have to convert the product in some way to sell it to their home country. (Some countries have strange rules about this, including a Eastern country in Europe where the butter must be packaged in cubes to sell or else it can't be sold in that country.)

Japanes production companies aren't set up the same way american production companies are. In america there is what you would call "In house talent". In house, for those who don't know, is basically any talent that works in side the studio. For example Walt Disney has in house orchestras, this allows them to sell their music with the movie they are distrubiting rather then going to outside groups. Not so in Japan, most studios hire outside for certain aspects in the series. The music has to be optioned seperately from the animation, so for shows to be shown here Company B has to go to the group that Company A paid to make the music and license the music from them. This means that there's a higher cost.

That being said once the payment is made the Licensor, the person that first made the product, is still given monitary payments at different points. DVD sales pay for the first fee but also for various other things for the anime company and the Company that distributes it.

I mean seriously if you look at all the people that get paid by people in Japan and the West that buy the products, it's no wonder that the DVD has to be marked up at times.

In Japan you have:

Any and all upper ranking business people -their fees
Screenwriters -their fee plus union fees and benifits
Producers -their fee plus union fees and agents
Directors -their fee plus union fees and agents
Actors -their fees plus Agent fees and union fees
Animators -their fees (Which isn't much) and union fees (if the studio is union)
Background painters -see Animators
Computer Animators -see Animators
Special effects Animators -see Animators
Special Sound Effects -their fees plus addional fees incured for out of house.
Musicans -their fees and their union fees, out of house fees, fees if they're under a contract with a different music company, their agents
Singer -see Musican
Music Producer -their fees plus union and agent
Marketing group (people doing the PR and getting the show on the air in Japan) -their fees, out of house fees
Distrubition group (the tv station group that distrubutes it to their stations) -all their fees
Packaging group (group that does all the print ads, comericals, box set covers etc.)-their fees
Merchdising group (group that licenese out the characters and stuff so that we can have plushies) -their fees
There are also the catering groups, the clean up groups, the groups that drive the voice actors to the places they need to go, all these people also need to get paid.

America:

Licsening group (Group that does the negotiations with Japan for a product)-their fees
Translator -their fees
Producers -their fees, some are union based and have agents so their fees too
Screenwriter -their fees
ADR- Director for the actors, their fees and agent fees, and possible union fees
Voice actors -their fees, agents fees and union fees.
Musicans (if music rights can't be licensed) -their fees, agent fees, out of house fees, union fees
Sound people (all the sound tech guys) -their fees and union fees
Marketing -their fees
Repackager for domestic distubution -their fees
Translator for package -their fees
Distrubution group (people that sell to places to sell the DVDs and the TV stations) -their fees
TV station-fees
Any and all upper ranking business people -their fees

That's a lot of peole don't you think? Getting stuff for free means that these people are not getting paid, meaning that more of their money gets cut and it's not the upper management either. Cost of living in Tokyo is very high, not to mention in a lot of cases some Anime has to be additonally animated in Korea due to the number of episodes and the time frame, so you have to pay them too.

Just something to think about when you next watch anime that's been subbed on a site that got it illigally.

[Matt PNiewski]

Dark Spellmaster, on Apr 15 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

Wow this is an interesting topic, and not really sure if I have much to add in, but I'll give my two cents anyway. I've noticed a lot of people throwing about the word Liscensed and Unlicensed and I'm curious as to how many people actually know what goes on behind this, and how companies like Funi get their product? (It's actually different for Bandai and was partly for Geneon.) I recently took a business course and one of the main features of it was the way that licensing worked, and how much companies get from it.

Apparently, for those who do not know, the basics are boiled down to: Company A makes a prouduct that is liked in their country. Company B notices this and wishes to bring that over to their side of the pond. Compay B has to Bid with Company A to get the product, because Compay A can sell to other Companies for a better price. Once Company B gets the product they have to domesticate it. What that means is that they have to convert the product in some way to sell it to their home country. (Some countries have strange rules about this, including a Eastern country in Europe where the butter must be packaged in cubes to sell or else it can't be sold in that country.)

Japanes production companies aren't set up the same way american production companies are. In america there is what you would call "In house talent". In house, for those who don't know, is basically any talent that works in side the studio. For example Walt Disney has in house orchestras, this allows them to sell their music with the movie they are distrubiting rather then going to outside groups. Not so in Japan, most studios hire outside for certain aspects in the series. The music has to be optioned seperately from the animation, so for shows to be shown here Company B has to go to the group that Company A paid to make the music and license the music from them. This means that there's a higher cost.

That being said once the payment is made the Licensor, the person that first made the product, is still given monitary payments at different points. DVD sales pay for the first fee but also for various other things for the anime company and the Company that distributes it.

I mean seriously if you look at all the people that get paid by people in Japan and the West that buy the products, it's no wonder that the DVD has to be marked up at times.

In Japan you have:

Any and all upper ranking business people -their fees
Screenwriters -their fee plus union fees and benifits
Producers -their fee plus union fees and agents
Directors -their fee plus union fees and agents
Actors -their fees plus Agent fees and union fees
Animators -their fees (Which isn't much) and union fees (if the studio is union)
Background painters -see Animators
Computer Animators -see Animators
Special effects Animators -see Animators
Special Sound Effects -their fees plus addional fees incured for out of house.
Musicans -their fees and their union fees, out of house fees, fees if they're under a contract with a different music company, their agents
Singer -see Musican
Music Producer -their fees plus union and agent
Marketing group (people doing the PR and getting the show on the air in Japan) -their fees, out of house fees
Distrubition group (the tv station group that distrubutes it to their stations) -all their fees
Packaging group (group that does all the print ads, comericals, box set covers etc.)-their fees
Merchdising group (group that licenese out the characters and stuff so that we can have plushies) -their fees
There are also the catering groups, the clean up groups, the groups that drive the voice actors to the places they need to go, all these people also need to get paid.

America:

Licsening group (Group that does the negotiations with Japan for a product)-their fees
Translator -their fees
Producers -their fees, some are union based and have agents so their fees too
Screenwriter -their fees
ADR- Director for the actors, their fees and agent fees, and possible union fees
Voice actors -their fees, agents fees and union fees.
Musicans (if music rights can't be licensed) -their fees, agent fees, out of house fees, union fees
Sound people (all the sound tech guys) -their fees and union fees
Marketing -their fees
Repackager for domestic distubution -their fees
Translator for package -their fees
Distrubution group (people that sell to places to sell the DVDs and the TV stations) -their fees
TV station-fees
Any and all upper ranking business people -their fees

That's a lot of peole don't you think? Getting stuff for free means that these people are not getting paid, meaning that more of their money gets cut and it's not the upper management either. Cost of living in Tokyo is very high, not to mention in a lot of cases some Anime has to be additonally animated in Korea due to the number of episodes and the time frame, so you have to pay them too.

Just something to think about when you next watch anime that's been subbed on a site that got it illigally.

Except you forget one thing- Most of these people do not get royalties. Only the people up at the top, and the people from the Japanese side have since already made a profit, and have no interest in the American release other than merchandising (which is handled through a different set of hands anyway) and the initial payment for the series, which gets invested back into the company. By the time royalities come in to the two people who recieved them, everyone has been paid and it's pure profit coming in. If they didn't make a profit, and counted on the international release, they are terrible businessmen.

In other words, Japan already got paid. So you can take that out right off the bat.


Now, these people have to make a profit. The company pays the people, and hopes to win profit off the investment. By this time, there is no garauntee that the anime is going to be a success.... But WAIT! People have already seen episodes online. They decide "Yes, I know I like this." Hence, they pay for it. Buy it legitimitely.

Fact of the matter is, many people who will download will still buy legitely. If not, they will still help spread the word. Which increases the profit. As I pointed out, Anime like Bleach and Naruto were huge hits before the release, and are still the most profitable in America. Had these not gotten exposure, would they have made as much money? I highly doubt it, considering that the marketing for anime is surprisingly limited.


Also, if you are rationalizing that this is the reason for the large mark up on anime, why not other foreign releases? Tokyo Shock has been redubbing and subtitling old Toho classics and selling them for no more than 20 dollars, and the same amount of work goes in? Or even when it comes to releases from countries like France? I never saw Triplet's of Bellville topping at 29 dollars. How about Persepolis?

The reason for the mark up is simply because of the target audience's willingness to pay for such things.

[Lina]

Instead of reading online now, though I occasionally still do, I like to grab random manga from Mitsuwa to see if I like it. I can't really read Japanese, but they're cheap and it's fun to look at the pictures and try to figure out what they say.

[Keiichi-chan]

i have never seen someone be so RIGHT about anything on the internet as niewski is in this thread.

also: it's pretty hypocritical to b***h about funi not getting paid for soul eater when they pull their
'license anything that's popular in subs, hand out cease and desist order--SO NO ONE CAN WATCH THE DAMN
SHOW ANYMORE or sub it w/out being at risk of being sued, and then just sit on the license until they get around
to it. and the icing on the cake is when they finally get around to it, they give it a so-so release and a totally
sub par dub!! i feel less than zero sympathy for watching fansubs, because when every series i truly enjoy,
i tend to want to own. the only issue that comes up where i don't purchase a series i like is when it's a manga
with a horrible translation or censorship in the N.America release. don't like to read manga that reads like an
8th grader wrote it, and don't like to read manga with giant sharpie X's over anything that might be
slightly offensive to a western audiences, especially when they could just shrink wrap the damn thing
and mark it mature or something!

and then there's retarded and childish 'edits' like not being able to use the term 'god'. but that's a whole different issue.
when companies put out great dubs and high quality releases, people rarely have a problem purchasing the series they watched fansubbed; usually they're excited to do it! if anything, i feel like it helps regulate quality a little more, which really needs to happen with anime dvd production becoming more and more of a monopoly. also: if companies don't like it, they can always make the effort to do simulcast of their own with subtitles anime. funi's been doing that recently and it seems to be a successful venture. sorry if i'm not going to spend thousands of dollars buying anime based on dvd covers and word of mouth, but i'm not. the majority of anime series air on television for free in japan, anyways. i think most people treat watching fansubs as such nowadays. isn't it kinda rare for people to have entire series on their hard drives or burned to dvd's from a fansub?

[Kitsu-chan]

Funi isn't the only company guilty of it either. Anybody remember when ADV licensed Mermaid Melody? That was back in 2004, now the rights to it are back to TV Aichi who had it in the first place. Plus they had finished dubbing the entire first season, all 52 eps of it. Given how popular Sailor Moon & similar series were, they probably could have gotten it out & atleast broke even.

I used a torrent to download a few eps 2yrs ago & remember there being 100 seeds & 75 peers, so the fanbase was there & I'm sure ADV knew it too.

So obviously, yes I do download fansubs. I have a grand total of 2 movies (both the Sol Bianca movies) that has been licensed & released thus far. Plus I did go buy the VHS of the movies. I only keep the fansubs for screenshots since I plan to cosplay from the series.

Fansubs are legal to own, illegal to sell. As long as you stick to private use, not selling them or charging like a movie theater, everything is ok... Until the series gets licensed. Then you need to shell out the cash & buy it or start watching what the company streams. That came directly from an FBI Agent who shops at my store.

[Dark Spellmaster]

Matt PNiewski, on Apr 15 2010, 12:35 PM, said:

Except you forget one thing- Most of these people do not get royalties. Only the people up at the top, and the people from the Japanese side have since already made a profit, and have no interest in the American release other than merchandising (which is handled through a different set of hands anyway) and the initial payment for the series, which gets invested back into the company. By the time royalities come in to the two people who recieved them, everyone has been paid and it's pure profit coming in. If they didn't make a profit, and counted on the international release, they are terrible businessmen.

In other words, Japan already got paid. So you can take that out right off the bat.

Even if they are being paid that money is then taken and placed into the business end and added into making other productions, and through that the animators get paid.

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Now, these people have to make a profit. The company pays the people, and hopes to win profit off the investment. By this time, there is no garauntee that the anime is going to be a success.... But WAIT! People have already seen episodes online. They decide "Yes, I know I like this." Hence, they pay for it. Buy it legitimitely.

Except for the fact that there's a good portion of people that say, "yes I like it, but NO, I don't want to pay 50 dollars for an anime release when I can get it all on line for Free!" So saying that people will just run out and buy it isn't all that accurate either I'm sorry to say. We live in a "Gimmie it now" time period, where people can't wait to get something. So once they have what they want, a portion of them, not all, will go and just pass by buying the anime.

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Fact of the matter is, many people who will download will still buy legitely. If not, they will still help spread the word. Which increases the profit. As I pointed out, Anime like Bleach and Naruto were huge hits before the release, and are still the most profitable in America. Had these not gotten exposure, would they have made as much money? I highly doubt it, considering that the marketing for anime is surprisingly limited.

Bleach and Naruto were both already well known properties in Japan. The companies that look into licensing and buying the shows already know this because of the marketing division in the animation company in Japan. Naruto was only turned into an anime after it was clear that the sales of the manga were high, same for Bleach. The publishers in Japan, I believe, work pretty closely with the Animation industry to point out which manga is pulling in the most numbers, thus will be the most profitable. They probably would have made as much money due to the nature of the shows. One has ninjas, and kids love ninjas, the other has characters dressed as Samurai. Considering how well both ideas play out in the media and to kids, I think they would have sold pretty well.

Yes people will buy it legit, the question is how much and when, and spread the word? Outside of spreading the word where to download the show not a lot of people run out and say, "Oh you can buy this at Best buy." How many honestly do that. Most have to look it up themself.

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Also, if you are rationalizing that this is the reason for the large mark up on anime, why not other foreign releases? Tokyo Shock has been redubbing and subtitling old Toho classics and selling them for no more than 20 dollars, and the same amount of work goes in? Or even when it comes to releases from countries like France? I never saw Triplet's of Bellville topping at 29 dollars. How about Persepolis?

The reason for the mark up is simply because of the target audience's willingness to pay for such things.

Yes I agree that the mark up happens due to willingness to pay. It's how most businesses do it. PS3 for example was what, 600 when it first came out, and it was dropped when people didn't want to pay that price for it. Some did, most didn't, but it still sold units. Foreign films are released more subbed then dubbed, so you can subract the cost for cast to replace the voices, also it's shorter in running time. This means that you probably would not have to pay a lot of money for the actors or the staff to come in and play it. Throw in that foreign tends to be niche in some cases, and that older shows can be licensed cheaper, it's easier for a movie like the triplets of Bellville to be cheaper then a box set season. I haven't seen box set season of any TV shows from Japan that are not anime licensed here in the US. I've seen movies but not the shows.

The amount of work and quality of it depends on the study that licensed the movie. Some are actually pretty bad, some are really good.

@Kitsu-chan: Wasn't there some trouble with the agreement with ADV for that series in the first place?

[Kitsu-chan]

Dark Spellmaster, on Apr 15 2010, 07:49 PM, said:

@Kitsu-chan: Wasn't there some trouble with the agreement with ADV for that series in the first place?

Looking at Wikipedia, they say they dropped due to difficulty in finding backers and securing a TV airing deal.