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Unethical Fandom?

#61 User is offline   skyrune83 

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:07 AM

View PostXenoBlade, on Jun 9 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

wow, my question completely skipped.

Don't feel so bad... I've presented lots of questions on here that haven't been answered - it may just be that there are no good answers.

View PostXenoBlade, on Jun 9 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

It would be nice to know the reasonings of making this thread...

Well, originally I was complaining that there was all this fandom regarding Hetalia and Soul Eater, and I wanted in - but the only way I can get into this fandom is by doing something illegal.
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#62 User is offline   XenoBlade 

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 01:54 PM

Well I was asking YOU tho. lol I don't feel rewritting my question, but I asked you personally something.
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#63 User is offline   skyrune83 

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:24 PM

View PostXenoBlade, on Jun 9 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Well I was asking YOU tho. lol I don't feel rewritting my question, but I asked you personally something.

Oh, sorry. It's best to include an "@<username>" to make it clear who you are talking to. I thought you were talking to FlyingElf, since you quoted him.


View PostXenoBlade, on Jun 9 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

But my main reason for posting is this.

By your first post, you seemed really disgusted at people who watch dl and watch fansubs. Is this like your first time hearing about this or something? (no offense when I say this but it's either that or as Matt, said, you riding on a high horse) This is a pretty debated topic already.

Among anime fans, this is like discussing religion or politics. (but since we are civilized, we don't flame each other) But everyone is either on one or the other.

Not trying to insult you, but this has been nipping on me to post this.

I have been well aware of fansubs and torrents for years. I'm not disgusted at people who watch fansubs and download torrents - I admit to doing so myself at times. What confuses me is how fandom for unlicensed shows is encouraged by the public when in fact, the public is against torrents and fansubs.
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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:37 PM

Look bottom line is if you really enjoy a show that much that you've watched online it's right for you to buy the dvd when it comes out. That's the true and right thing to do for the anime community. If you don't, well your not really supporting what you love now are you?. I watched Welcome to the NHK about a half a year before the dvd's came to America. Now I'm only up to volume 3 cuz of lack of money but I really loved the show so I'm supporting it. I know I'm kinda repeating myself. but that's how I feel.
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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:41 PM

Ahh I see. (And I thought I put OP in there at some point and time. I must have forgot to do so.

And okay, I was just curious. I'm not really here to debate any points. It's been done enough already.
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#66 User is offline   Lizza 

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 10:03 PM

View Postskyrune83, on Jun 9 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

The question is: Is the original webcomic, as Dane Cook would put it, "absolutely free"? Meaning, are there ads on the site that they wish for their fans to support? Because if the site it is posted on has ads, then there was an intent by the creators to make money. Like CrunchyRoll, they offer anime to its viewers for free, with the hopes that the fans will support the products in the ads. That's how CrunchyRoll is able to offer anime free.


Shitarou Inuzuka already mentioned this.
"and the author even gave permission to the fans to re-post it and make derivative works, as long as they're free to view."

Also, this is Hidekaz Himaruya's site, where he posts the webcomic: http://www.geocities.jp/himaruya/
I see no ads on there.

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 12:02 AM

View PostDark Stranger, on Jun 9 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

Look bottom line is if you really enjoy a show that much that you've watched online it's right for you to buy the dvd when it comes out. That's the true and right thing to do for the anime community. If you don't, well your not really supporting what you love now are you?. I watched Welcome to the NHK about a half a year before the dvd's came to America. Now I'm only up to volume 3 cuz of lack of money but I really loved the show so I'm supporting it. I know I'm kinda repeating myself. but that's how I feel.

That is usually what I do when I have the money.

I'm watching Blood+ on a website, no, I'm not downloading it, but I plan on buying it, unless my boyfriend has it already.

It is also what I do with manga. I read it on a website and if I like it enough to want to buy it, I do.

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View PostFoolish Humon, on 13 June 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

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#68 User is offline   Animexcel 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 05:12 PM

I wouldn't mind buying anime these days if the US distributors would make up their damn mind to release a series on individual dvds or a complete set for a cheaper price. _
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Posted 10 June 2009 - 05:35 PM

View PostAnimexcel, on Jun 10 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind buying anime these days if the US distributors would make up their damn mind to release a series on individual dvds or a complete set for a cheaper price. _

Exactly! I'm not big on torrenting. I feel that the creators and US distributors deserve to be paid for their work, but it has been unaffordable lately.
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#70 User is offline   Animexcel 

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 07:40 PM

View Postredx1, on Jun 11 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

Exactly! I'm not big on torrenting. I feel that the creators and US distributors deserve to be paid for their work, but it has been unaffordable lately.


I bought the first volume of School Rumble on DVD, and by that time most to all of the dvds were released. About a month later I see the first season out as a complete set and I was like "NOT AGAIN!" I stopped getting Chobits, Hare and Guu.. and eventually stopped entirely to see if a series would come out with a finished box set.
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#71 User is offline   FlyingElf 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 02:00 AM

honestly I stopped buying individual DVDs all together pretty much. I just wait for the slim packs usually. They're cheaper and take up less space on my bookshelf.
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Posted 11 June 2009 - 04:05 AM

Yep, I also wait for the complete sets for two reasons one like Elf mentioned because they have the slim packs and between all my games, manga and DVDs I need to converse space, I already have three book shelves jammed packed. The other reason is because I would rather be able to sit down and watch the entire series without having to wait for the next volume to come out....Yea I'm impatient.

I usually stay away from the torrents and stuff like that.
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#73 User is offline   skyrune83 

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:30 AM

View PostLina, on Jun 10 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

That is usually what I do when I have the money.

I'm watching Blood+ on a website, no, I'm not downloading it, but I plan on buying it, unless my boyfriend has it already.

It is also what I do with manga. I read it on a website and if I like it enough to want to buy it, I do.

I'm sorry for you, Blood+ fan... Blood+ is a prime example of DVDs that cost WAAAAAAAAAAY too much.
See this: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmg...tem/77160/4/0/0
Retail price is $120. And you only get HALF the show. And what if I don't want a t-shirt that has no chance in hell of fitting me? Seriously, who would buy this???

And someone mentioned hare+guu...
Again, this is the complete collection:
http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmg...tem/75695/4/0/0
It's a little cheaper than Blood+, but still retails for $100 for 26 episodes. And why would I pay that much to have to store a huge box like that on my shelf? And plus, I don't want to have to change discs 6 times and have to watch all-new FBI warnings and flying logos.

But at least new distributors like Sentai are coming out with decent sized and prices DVDs, such as this:
http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmg...tem/83539/4/0/0
Now that's MUCH better! $40 for 26 episodes, in a thin case!

This post has been edited by skyrune83: 11 June 2009 - 07:37 AM

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#74 User is offline   Matt 

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:08 PM

I'm surprised no one's mentioned renting DVDs as an option, since I have rented most of the anime I've seen. As a result, my anime collection is not very large, since I'm not in the habit of re-watching anime (or TV show episodes or movies). I also don't watch anime very frequently, so renting is fine with me, since there is plenty of anime for me to choose from. Some of it's good, and some of it's crap, but if I rent it and don't like it, I won't continue watching the series (or buy it, if it's good enough, and I think I'll re-watch it someday). I used to watch fansubs when I was a member of my college's anime club, but now I don't watch anime as frequently, so licensed anime is okay with me. And if I can't find any good anime, I'll rent and watch a movie I've always been interested in seeing, or read manga, or read comics, or read books, etc. Also, I don't consider myself to be such a devoted anime fan that I need to watch the latest, greatest anime as soon as it's released, or before it's released. I can wait for an official release, or not watch it at all, if it doesn't interest me. I guess I just don't allow myself to get worked up about a very popular anime, and feel the need to see it based on what everyone thinks. And I hope I'm not the only one who has this easy-going attitude :) .
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#75 User is offline   skyrune83 

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 08:59 AM

View PostMatt, on Jun 13 2009, 04:08 PM, said:

I'm surprised no one's mentioned renting DVDs as an option, since I have rented most of the anime I've seen. As a result, my anime collection is not very large, since I'm not in the habit of re-watching anime (or TV show episodes or movies). I also don't watch anime very frequently, so renting is fine with me, since there is plenty of anime for me to choose from. Some of it's good, and some of it's crap, but if I rent it and don't like it, I won't continue watching the series (or buy it, if it's good enough, and I think I'll re-watch it someday). I used to watch fansubs when I was a member of my college's anime club, but now I don't watch anime as frequently, so licensed anime is okay with me. And if I can't find any good anime, I'll rent and watch a movie I've always been interested in seeing, or read manga, or read comics, or read books, etc. Also, I don't consider myself to be such a devoted anime fan that I need to watch the latest, greatest anime as soon as it's released, or before it's released. I can wait for an official release, or not watch it at all, if it doesn't interest me. I guess I just don't allow myself to get worked up about a very popular anime, and feel the need to see it based on what everyone thinks. And I hope I'm not the only one who has this easy-going attitude :) .

Wow, I admire your strategy, Matt. I really should do this too - where do you rent your DVDs from usually?
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#76 User is offline   Kankokujin 

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 11:39 AM

View Postskyrune83, on Jun 15 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Wow, I admire your strategy, Matt. I really should do this too - where do you rent your DVDs from usually?

Netflix might be a good place. Local video stores usually don't have a good anime selection.

This post has been edited by Kankokujin: 15 June 2009 - 11:39 AM

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 03:40 PM

I usually rent my anime DVDs from netflix.
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Posted 15 June 2009 - 05:17 PM

I use Netflix as well, it is a really good service. I've been given credit for outages that I didn't even notice ie once for not being able to access my queue for a day.
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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:39 PM

View Postskyrune83, on Jun 8 2009, 12:18 AM, said:

Ugh... Don't even get me started on what shows the networks choose. I just found out the other day that I have IFC, which has, gasp, ANIME! ... Oh but wait, it's crappy fanservice shows like Gunslinger Girl and Witchblade. <_<
Currently, SciFi Channel is the only channel showing decent anime, like Gurenn Lagann and Gundam 00, but they're on at such a ridiculous time that it makes me want to pull my hair out!

And forget about Adult Swim - they killed anime as soon as they stopped showing it on Sundays, when PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY AT HOME WATCHING TV.



This is precisely why nowadays I only watch fansubs. Theres never good anime on TV ever, plus DVDs are still, way too damn expensive. lately they've been starting to lower prices a lot for some titles, but others are still around $30 a disc, and that it highway robbery. The thing is, if it weren't for free fansubs from sites like animesuki, I would not be an anime fan anymore. Back when i was in college I started thinking "this crap is getting too damn expensive, and lame, and it's not worth my time." But, since they have fansubs, I watch them. If they didn't have fansubs, I wouldn't watch anime, I'd watch videos on hulu, play freely distributed computer games, emulators, things like that. I just haven't got the money for anime, and if i did, I'd find something better to spend it on, like college tuition. The way I see it, the American distibutors fail to provide me with goods and services at reasonable prices, so I take my business elsewhere. Capitalism. Plus, only a small percentage of that money finds it way to the studios, keep in mind theres overhead, plus retail markups. Suncoast is not some charitable organization we should donate money to.
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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:48 PM

View PostSuigetsu, on Jun 5 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

I find it hard to believe that the people will actually buy the things. That just the way humans work.
Hey, some of us dirty pirates actually pirate things for evaluation purposes, and then buy them if we appreciate them. Such morality may be sparse in the pirate community, but I'm just throwing that out there.
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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:11 PM

View PostSir Viver, on Apr 13 2010, 04:48 PM, said:

Hey, some of us dirty pirates actually pirate things for evaluation purposes, and then buy them if we appreciate them. Such morality may be sparse in the pirate community, but I'm just throwing that out there.

Ah, a ghost thread! Hmmm...well as long as I get a cut of rum I'll look the other way. Some things change. I still don't get pirated stuff but don't judge as long as the person knows that its pirated. I guess another reason would be if the series hasn't/will never come to the states. Japanese dvds will cost and arm and a leg more than the US's, and its cheaper than getting a region free player as well. To each their own I guess.
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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:10 PM

Hi, I'm just here to eat my words re; "Hetalia probably won't get licensed", as it did. My point still stands for scanlated versions of the strips, though. The webcomic is 100% free. Himaruya didn't create Hetalia with any intention of hitting it big; he was just a college student drawing comics in his spare time and sharing them for the fun of it. I will definitely be buying the DVDs, though, and the published version of the manga, assuming the news that Tokyopop licensed it is true ( gdit why Tokyopop? ;; )

But all that said, this whole argument is difficult. I see nothing wrong with an unlicensed title having a strong fanbase that was born of fansubs. The problem is when the fanbase doesn't cough up the cash for the licensed version, assuming it does get licensed. Sometimes it's justifiable. I wouldn't expect a Shaman King fan to try to track down the 4Kids DVDs of Shaman King, for example, assuming those even exist. I also wouldn't expect a Detective Conan fan to buy the DVDs for Detective Conan; 3-4 episode per disc singles for a 400+ episode show?! But at the same time, I know Oofuri had a pretty good-sized following, so why didn't FUNi's Oofuri DVDs sell? They had the entire first season (which was all that was out) in a nice thinpak set for a pretty reasonable price, and yet it sold so poorly that they're not even considering licensing season 2.

People that want to complain about the price of anime DVDs these days horrify me, though, I'm sorry. Box sets don't cost $200 anymore, guys. You can get 13 episodes for as little as $35. I bought the first season of Glass Mask mostly on blind faith, me being desperate for a theatre-based anime and having had it recommended to me, and I paid $30 for it. That set has 26 episodes. Granted, it was on sale and the normal price was around $50. But still, anime is reasonably priced these days in most cases. We're certainly getting better prices than Japan, anyway. And don't you dare give the "they get it on TV!" excuse. Cable in Japan is still something that you have to pay for, and from what I understand it's pretty expensive. Not to mention it's not like anime is on all the time. It's mostly late night and Saturday morning. (My info on Japanese TV comes from various podcasts involving interviews with people that have lived in Japan)
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#83 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:23 PM

Is it horrible that I was laughing while reading this thread? I know this is a fairly recent thing, but...guess what, guys? Hetalia's getting licensed by FUNimation. Anyone wanna place bets on who Vick's gonna play? I'm thinking America...

Anyway, just a few things I wanted to point out:
1)

Quote

Which means people are fans of illegal shows. Wow... I am shocked that this many people are illegally downloading these shows - I can't tell you how many people I've met on this forum that list Hetalia as one of their favorite shows.


I know someone mentioned this on the first page, but if it's not licensed in the U.S (or whatever the home country is), it's not illegal. The problem is when people download stuff that's already been licensed. I don't know what the status of Soul Eater was when you made this thread, but Hetalia wasn't licensed yet, therefore, it wouldn't have been illegal for you to watch it.

2)

Quote

Then why are anime distributors failing? And why can I not find decent anime on TV anymore?


In regards to the first question, maybe it's because of a little thing called recession. Now, I could be wrong, because it's hard to stay up to date on the news as a college student (I manage maybe an hour of news each week), but for a lot of people, the financial situation is definitely not good. I don't know about you, but I can't eat anime. Anime can't clothe me. Anime can't pay the bills.

As for the second, as many people in this thread have already stated, a lot of distributors actually decide what to license based on the popularity of the fansub. So if you can't find good anime on TV anymore, it's probably because a lot of anime fans these days have really taste, or something. Not to mention the fact that it's the network that decides whether to air a show or not, not the fans or distributors.

Add in all of the people who decide they would rather rent than buy (for financial or spacial reasons), and it's pretty clear why the companies are failing.

This post has been edited by Kaay-chan: 13 April 2010 - 07:27 PM

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#84 User is offline   Kitana_Matsuri 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:48 PM

View PostOhki, on Apr 13 2010, 08:10 PM, said:

I see nothing wrong with an unlicensed title having a strong fanbase that was born of fansubs.



Thank you.

God forbid people like things that haven't been stamped with an international price tag and licensing that oh so kindly allows others to view foreign material.

Paying the bills doesn't allow everyone to have an extra $100 to blow on anime DVD's and manga. I wont say I'm sorry for torrenting at times either. But if I like a series, I'll buy it.

Take my Rurouni Kenshin DVD box set. I could gave paid up to $200-$400 for it. I paid $70 on ebay for the entire series, brand new. Can't say I never paid money for my fandom. But you wont find me throwing cash away either.

Hetalia is something I need to see first to know if I'll even like it or not. I wont be waiting until it hits the stores at an ungodly price to check it out. Conservative peeking, I call it.
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#85 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:58 PM

View PostKitana_Matsuri, on Apr 13 2010, 08:48 PM, said:

Thank you.

God forbid people like things that haven't been stamped with an international price tag and licensing that oh so kindly allows others to view foreign material.

Paying the bills doesn't allow everyone to have an extra $100 to blow on anime DVD's and manga. I wont say I'm sorry for torrenting at times either. But if I like a series, I'll buy it.

Take my Rurouni Kenshin DVD box set. I could gave paid up to $200-$400 for it. I paid $70 on ebay for the entire series, brand new. Can't say I never paid money for my fandom. But you wont find me throwing cash away either.

Hetalia is something I need to see first to know if I'll even like it or not. I wont be waiting until it hits the stores at an ungodly price to check it out. Conservative peeking, I call it.


Actually, I think $70 is the normal price for RuroKen box sets. If I remember correctly, that's about what I payed for the first and second seasons each. As for Hetalia, FUNimation tends to price their dvds pretty fairly, I think. I bought both of my Yu Yu Hakusho box sets for $25, I believe, which is a pretty good price considering the fact that each one has 27-28 episodes. And, just out of curiosity, why not do your "conservative peeking" via Netflix?
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#86 User is offline   Kitana_Matsuri 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:16 PM

View PostKaay-chan, on Apr 13 2010, 08:58 PM, said:

Actually, I think $70 is the normal price for RuroKen box sets. If I remember correctly, that's about what I payed for the first and second seasons each. As for Hetalia, FUNimation tends to price their dvds pretty fairly, I think. I bought both of my Yu Yu Hakusho box sets for $25, I believe, which is a pretty good price considering the fact that each one has 27-28 episodes. And, just out of curiosity, why not do your "conservative peeking" via Netflix?


I don't like credit cards, thus I do not have one. So if I were to have Netflix, it would be directly billing my bank account which has bitten me on the hand before due to some monthly payment just going through. I used to have Netflix, but I don't even have the time to get my monies worth because of work.

Also, when I got the Rurouni Kenshin box set, I noticed in stores that the first and second box (Which both came together in my big one) were being sold separately for $150-$200 at the time. I bought this years back. 6-7 years ago I think. You couldn't get the box set I had in stores at the time, or at least not that I had seen.
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#87 User is offline   Kaay-chan 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:38 PM

View PostKitana_Matsuri, on Apr 13 2010, 09:16 PM, said:

I don't like credit cards, thus I do not have one. So if I were to have Netflix, it would be directly billing my bank account which has bitten me on the hand before due to some monthly payment just going through. I used to have Netflix, but I don't even have the time to get my monies worth because of work.

Also, when I got the Rurouni Kenshin box set, I noticed in stores that the first and second box (Which both came together in my big one) were being sold separately for $150-$200 at the time. I bought this years back. 6-7 years ago I think. You couldn't get the box set I had in stores at the time, or at least not that I had seen.


Really? because I'm fairly sure I bought the first season roughly 4-5 years ago (good God, has it really been that long? O.O *feels old*) What stores were you looking at? I got mine at Best Buy (the second season I bought last year at ACen, which, to be honest, is where I buy most of my DVDs).
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#88 User is offline   Kitana_Matsuri 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:51 PM

View PostKaay-chan, on Apr 13 2010, 09:38 PM, said:

Really? because I'm fairly sure I bought the first season roughly 4-5 years ago (good God, has it really been that long? O.O *feels old*) What stores were you looking at? I got mine at Best Buy (the second season I bought last year at ACen, which, to be honest, is where I buy most of my DVDs).



Suncoast Video, JP Toys, FYE... It's definitely been a long time. I'm not surprised at all that it went down in price, but man was I boggled when I saw the price tag for the first box set. $189.99, no joke. My jaw dropped. I've looked at other stores I can't remember in a few other malls that had them, but oddly enough, I got my box set from someone who must have ripped off Suncoast and sold em' for dirt cheap in comparison to what you'd pay in person. The last box set to the season... I think it was something like $213.99. An odd price, I remember that much. I was just horrified.
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#89 User is offline   Ohki 

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:50 PM

Also just for the record, hardcore fans of series WILL actually buy the Japanese tankobon and/or R2 DVDs just to support the series, even if they don't understand Japanese and/or don't have a DVD player that can play R2. I actually have a copy of the limited version of the first disc of Hetalia that I bought to show my support and for the special CD.

@Kaay-chan: Actually, downloading unlicensed titles IS still illegal. Their copyright protects them even in countries that they're not licensed for sale in under the Berne Convention. And yeah, Rurouni Kenshin was expensive back in the day. Pretty much everything was. I remember paying $200 for the first season of Fushigi Yuugi (what was I thinking?).
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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:57 PM

I would like to say that I did not down load Hetalia, I friend showed it to me & I plan on buying the DVDs as soon as it comes out. I only use online sites to view anime to see if I like it before buying. In this case, loved & must own all merchandise!
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