[Kane]

In the wise words of Bakaorochi:

Keep it clean. Keep it civil.

If you don't like something, give a reason, no worthless posts will be tolerated. If you feel you're being attacked, do NOT attack back. Keep it to PM's.

If this topic takes a turn south, we will have no discussion about the rules until the convention. We very much want to hear your input and how you feel this can be more fair to everyone.

Please do not ruin this for those that really want to know about the tourney and discuss the rules and caveats.


updated 4/25


SUPER SMASH BROTHERS:BRAWL Singles Format -&- Rules


Important Info:
- The SSBB Singles Tournament will be held FRIDAY 7:30PM - 10:00PM.
- Finals will take place in Main Programming Beta, SATURDAY 5:00PM - 6:00PM.
- If you can NOT make Saturday please do NOT enter on Friday.
- Due to time limitations, there will be a LIMITED number of sign-up positions.
- Sign-ups will start at-con, on Friday.
- NOTHING written here is final, this is all tentative and subject to change.


Format:

Preliminary (Friday)
- SINGLE ELIMINATION; BEST OF ONE (1)
- 2 Stock, 3 Minute Matches

Secondary through Quarter Final (Friday)
- SINGLE ELIMINATION; BEST OF ONE (1)
- 3 Stock, 5 Minute Matches

Semi Finals (Saturday)
- SINGLE ELIMINATION; BEST OF ONE (1)
- 3 Stock, 5 Minute Matches

Finals (Saturday)
- SINGLE ELIMINATION; BEST OF THREE (3)
- 3 Stock, 5 Minute Matches


Rules:
General
- All matches are One Vs One.
- All Controller schemes OK. (G.C., Wiimote, Nunchuk, Wii Classic)
- Modded Controllers are BANNED (IE: Springless L&R, Button mods, etc.) Ask a judge AT-CON if your controller is legal.
- Judges' decisions are FINAL, no exceptions. Arguing with a Judge is an INSTANT disqualification.
- Using glitches will result in disqualification.
- All other Rules will be announced AT-CON.
Character Rules
- Players must tell judge their character (out loud, or whisper) before picking. Players MUST play said character. No exceptions.
Stage Rules
- Players have 40 seconds to AGREE on a stage, otherwise RANDOM must be picked.
- During Finals, No stage may be played twice in any Match.
Infintite Move/Combo Rules
- "Infa-Locking" can be performed three (3) times in succession, then a non-locking move must be used. Breaking this rule will result in DQ. "Infa-Locking" is described below in replys, and will be gone over at-con.


Stages:
Stages are now in Top -> Bottom, Left -> Right order as it appears on Random Stage Select options. You're welcome!

Legal Stages:
- Battlefield
- Smashville
- Final Destination
- Yoshi's Island
- Delfino Plaza
- Luigi's Mansion
- Lylat Cruise
- Corneria
- Pokemon Stadium

Banned Stages:
- Mario Circuit
- Frigate Orpheon
- Spear Pillar
- Mario Bros.
- Green Hill Zone
- Rumble Falls
- Port Town Aero Drive
- New Pork City
- Flat Zone 2
- Bridge of Eldin
- Halberd
- Castle Siege
- Summit
- PictoChat
- Pirate Ship
- WarioWare Inc.
- Skyworld
- Hanenbow
- Mushroomy Kingdom
- Norfair
- Pokemon Stadium 2
- Distant Planet
- 75m
- Shadow Moses Island
- Temple
- Jungle Japes
- Green Greens
- Brinstar
- Yoshi's Island
- Onett
- Rainbow Cruise
- Big Blue
- Custom Stages
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SUPER SMASH BROTHERS:BRAWL Doubles Format -&- Rules

Important Info:
- The SSBB Doubles Tournament will be held SATURDAY 10PM - 12AM.
- In the name of time, there will be a LIMITED number of sign-up positions.
- BOTH team members must be present to sign up.
- Sign-ups will start at-con, on Saturday.
- Team Attack will be ON.
- ALL Doubles rules & format are same as Singles, unless noted otherwise.
- NOTHING written here is final, this is all tentative and subject to change.

[Pokemon Trainer]

I'm responding solely to "Singles Format -&- Rules"
All of these words are said in the spirit of improvement

I'm curious where you got these rule ideas - they seem well thought out.

Stages that should also maybe be banned:
Mushroomy Kingdom - side scrolling
Pirate Ship - bombs/launcher
Bridge of Eldin - bomb / stage collapse
Norfair - crazy lava
Pokémon Stadium (and 2) - changes / environment effects
Port Town Aero Drive - off stage death likelihood increased (damaging, higher than normal below-stage floor)
Castle Siege - basically you can be saved while the level is changing
Distant Planet - off stage death likelihood increased (waterfall)
Summit (is this what you mean with Icicle Mountain?)
Jungle Japes - off stage death likelihood increased (rushing water)
Green Greens - bombs
Onett - cars
Brinstar - lava
Corneria - arwings shoot you

I'm not sure why you left some of those as legal, so if you keep them, it'd be good to cite reasons about questionable ones.
Some of these stages have predictable/avoidable nuisances, but I personally would not like to lose a match because of them.

Another suggestion: Alphabetize the list of stages? When I was trying to compare my game on the TV to your list, it was a little difficult find a stage on your list.

I think a list of legal stages might be shorter/more beneficial =P

Kane, on Feb 19 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

- Using glitches (MK infa-cape, IC infa-grab, etc) will result in instant disqualification.

What? If someone's playing, they should expect these things out of their opponent, thereby avoiding them. Indeed, from the fighting tournament rules thread:

The Mighty C. Bee!, on Feb 25 2009, 07:55 PM, said:

If someone can't adapt to a move or tactic, then they should probably work on it. I'd like to keep these tournaments as competitive as possible, and mollycoddling those who fall victim to the same thing over and over again will not achieve this. =3

And, they're not necessarily glitches ... are they? They're another technique people found. And the Ice Climbers' grab isn't infinite, is it?
If you're going to keep this rule, I don't think "etc" will suffice - surely a list could be generated. We'd be pretty happy to know what stuff we do is considered illegal.
Plus, maybe a lot of people incorporate a certain technique in their game - so they can't participate if they use it?

Kane, on Feb 19 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

Character Rules
- Players must tell judge their character (out loud, or whisper) before picking. Players MUST play said character. No exceptions.

I like this! But, it needs to be clarified whether or not we can choose a new character for each match. This includes choosing "Random" for your character.

It should be noted I'm not super experienced with tournaments or high-level play. I'm just putting my own personal thoughts out there

This post has been edited by Pokemon Trainer: 26 February 2009 - 02:48 PM

[Kane]

I can't respond to the banned vs not banned level portion of your post at this very moment, however I will tackle the rest.


A glitch is not the same thing as a "cheap" move or combo. IE: Wave-dashing in SSBM was not a glitch, it was part of the game mechanics. However, in Brawl, Ice Climbers infinite grab (yes it is infinite) was not intended to be part of the game. Someone found out you could do it, and word got around. Meta Knights infinite cape is banned because ontop of being an actual glitch, it falls under purposely prolonging a match. I put down "etc", as a placeholder for any other glitches that surface between now and ACen, or any that I have not yet mentioned.


Yes a new character can be picked each match.


And finally, yes I know the stage list isn't the most convient thing in the world to follow. I'll be updating the rules ever-so-slightly in the next week or two, so I'll see about making the stage section make more sense.

[applekidjosh]

IIRC Ness and Lucas can't get out of the infinite grab, so that explains that

[Pokemon Trainer]

Thank you for responding!
I thought about items, since posting. It seemed like standard rules, but it's NO ITEMS, right?
Also, what counts as a button mod? ... And how would you even mod a controller for your benefit?
Also, just to reiterate - SSBM rules shall be posted in the future?

Kane, on Feb 26 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

Wave-dashing in SSBM was not a glitch, it was part of the game mechanics.

It's a sort of workaround, like L canceling. Why is it present? - Because they rushed the game into stores. They didn't take the time to work out all the kinks. So it's funny they took it out of Brawl =P Verily we could not ban such things in a Melee tourney - it's integral to the game, now.
Have you heard of Brawl+? (I'd bet you have)

Kane, on Feb 26 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

However, in Brawl, Ice Climbers infinite grab (yes it is infinite)

One way I know how, that seems legit, is you throw with one, and then grab with the other.
Is this "infinite grab" only done in one way? Or are there multiple ways of doing it?
Basically I just want to know which way of grabbing over and over is illegal.
I was considering using Ice Climbers, and I've learned that there are multiple ways to grab people over and over, but I hadn't learned how to do it forever. I thought it decayed like everyone else.

Kane, on Feb 26 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

I put down "etc", as a placeholder for any other glitches that surface between now and ACen, or any that I have not yet mentioned.

Oh okay! So only those two are known, so far?
What if a new, yet-unknown glitch is used during the tournament? If people even spotted it =P

applekidjosh, on Feb 26 2009, 11:37 PM, said:

IIRC Ness and Lucas can't get out of the infinite grab, so that explains that

Psh they could just teleport.
(I heard you like EarthBound? Maybe? Your username suggests so.)

[Kane]

Alot of flaming happened over the Items rules being posted last year, that is why they are purposely omitted.

I was actually thinking of running Brawl+, but getting permission from donors to possibly brick their Wii isn't on the top of my to-do list. Do NOT expect to see Brawl+, just good 'ol regular SSBB.

I haven't done the infinite-grab in a while, but if I recall, you grab-hit-release and then repeat. If you just grab release it diminishes like Dedede's.

If someone manages to find a glitch during the tourny, their prize will be

Spoiler

a match restart! yaaay!

[XenoBlade]

Oh yeah, I remember last year with the items.

And also with Brawl+ I haven't heard of anyone getting their wii bricked yet, but yeah it still is risky. (apparently there is now an anti-bricking program on top of brawl+)

But since there is a melee tourny, I honestly don't see the reason to do brawl+ since most people aim to make it more like melee then smash64 (from what I've seen)

We don't need anymore more reasons to make Meta-Knight anymore broken then he already is. lol (hitstun)

[SheikTheGeek]

Kane, on Feb 27 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

Alot of flaming happened over the Items rules being posted last year, that is why they are purposely omitted.

I was actually thinking of running Brawl+, but getting permission from donors to possibly brick their Wii isn't on the top of my to-do list. Do NOT expect to see Brawl+, just good 'ol regular SSBB.

I haven't done the infinite-grab in a while, but if I recall, you grab-hit-release and then repeat. If you just grab release it diminishes like Dedede's.

If someone manages to find a glitch during the tourny, their prize will be

Spoiler

a match restart! yaaay!

Then Im curious...well the rules for items be posted here at all? Or will this be decided at con before the tournament? Majority vote perhaps?

[Kane]

All rules (such as items) will be announced and gone over prior to the tournament starting at-con.

[Vasteel Silvergun]

Are Wombo Combos allowed?

[Kane]

In doubles that is a legal "move".

Team attack will be ON, so you'd better have perfect spacing / timing.



Also, main post updated! Check for changes.

[XenoBlade]

Are there rules in the double matches about choosing the same characters for the same team?

[Kane]

No rules against same-character teams.


That means that I better get to see one very epic 4way Ice Climber match.

[Maha]

Most of the maps you said are stupid for banning. Falling off the stage is part of the game. I personally think it should just be final destination as it is most fair, but in MLG the rules for side scrolling maps and stuff were still aloud.

[Kane]

Maha, on Mar 29 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

Most of the maps you said are stupid for banning.

I'm going to stop you there.

If you have constructive criticism and a valid argument with logical reasoning behind an opinion of a stage being banned/unbanned, we would all love to hear it.

As the first post says: "If you don't like something, give a reason, no worthless posts will be tolerated."

[Naruto9thDemon]

I like all the rules. I was at a Tourney at Anime STL this weekend and the main reason I lost was the Infa-grabs. It's impossible to get out. I was Ike and I couldn't do it. Their are some characters that can probably but lets not be biased. As for the levels above their are a few that aren't listed that should be.

Luigi's Mansion - You have to brake the sides just to make it an even playing filed. And on it's an easy map to run away in to just lose time.

Mushroomy Kingdom - Side scrolling and not to mention on the second part you can easily stay up there if your a fast character and lose time.

Pirate Ship - Obstacles

Norfair - Lava

Pokemon Stadium 2 - The level can easily make it difficult to fight on. It can put you in the air, try to take you off the stage, etc.

New Pork Town - Same reason for Hyrule Temple. Just to big.

Summit - Level mechanics

There are more. But basically it should be more skill based instead of "O crap the map killed me" people will complain all day about how the map cheated them. Which is an agreeable thing to complain about. If i ever held a Tourney it would all be Final Destination. It's the most balanced map. No level mechanics, no AI killing you, no anything. Just you and your opponent.

[SheikTheGeek]

Quote

Their are some characters that can probably but lets not be biased.

No need too worry, theres really no biased involved. The truth and fact is, some characters can and some cant...the only variable factor is ones own skill with any given character, or if the other guy screws up.

[Ryusan]

ooKaY!! So if i happen to arrive on saturday only, will i still be able to enter the turny???

[magishine]

Can't wait for this. My brother and I have been practicing a lot so we'll be ready.

[XenoBlade]

Naruto9thDemon, on Apr 2 2009, 02:52 PM, said:

I like all the rules. I was at a Tourney at Anime STL this weekend and the main reason I lost was the Infa-grabs. It's impossible to get out. I was Ike and I couldn't do it. Their are some characters that can probably but lets not be biased.

YOU WERE THERE?!?!

I was that Marth! I actually called out on the Falco player for being gay with Chaingrabbing. ALTHOUGH, he knew how to play tho. Marth is immune to chaingrabs.

*loves Up B invicinbility frames*

This post has been edited by Kane: 03 April 2009 - 01:05 PM

[Kane]

Ryusan - If you are not able to make it Friday, you will not be able to participate saturday. Brawl is just too large to hold on one day.

Naruto9thdemon - Check your complaints. Some of the stages you listed are already listed uptop as banned.


Also, Infinite grabs are banned for anyone that didn't bother reading the first post.

Spoiler

read the first post before posting!

[SheikTheGeek]

Kane, on Apr 3 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

Ryusan - If you are not able to make it Friday, you will not be able to participate saturday. Brawl is just too large to hold on one day.

Naruto9thdemon - Check your complaints. Some of the stages you listed are already listed uptop as banned.


Also, Infinite grabs are banned for anyone that didn't bother reading the first post.

Spoiler

read the first post before posting!

As the grabs itself? (Falco/DeDeDe)

Or just the situation where the infinite happens? (DeDeDe on Castle Seige)(Falco on Metal Gear Stage)


What is your stance on Falcos Lazer infinite? Allowed or no?

[Kane]

Any legit (non glitch) move is legal to perform. This includes Dedede's / IC's Infa-grabs.

Any chain grab (infa-grab) may be performed 3 times in a row. After that a different non-locking move must be used, or you forfiet the match.

Falco's Infa-lazer falls under the same rule.


There ARE in fact more infinite-locks, weither its grabs or other moves. All of them fall under the 3 rule; you can perform the move 3 times in sucession, but then must do a non-lock move or forfiet the match.

[SheikTheGeek]

Kane, on Apr 4 2009, 02:18 AM, said:

Any legit (non glitch) move is legal to perform. This includes Dedede's / IC's Infa-grabs.

Any chain grab (infa-grab) may be performed 3 times in a row. After that a different non-locking move must be used, or you forfiet the match.

Falco's Infa-lazer falls under the same rule.


There ARE in fact more infinite-locks, weither its grabs or other moves. All of them fall under the 3 rule; you can perform the move 3 times in sucession, but then must do a non-lock move or forfiet the match.

Fair enough. Thanks.

[Naruto9thDemon]

Kane - Yea I did I was just stating my reasons.

Xeno - Heh yea we were the special cases lol

[BladerZ528]

Kane, on Apr 4 2009, 02:18 AM, said:

Any legit (non glitch) move is legal to perform. This includes Dedede's / IC's Infa-grabs.

Any chain grab (infa-grab) may be performed 3 times in a row. After that a different non-locking move must be used, or you forfiet the match.

Falco's Infa-lazer falls under the same rule.


There ARE in fact more infinite-locks, weither its grabs or other moves. All of them fall under the 3 rule; you can perform the move 3 times in sucession, but then must do a non-lock move or forfiet the match.

When you say Falco's Infa-lazer, that only applies if it is going to infinite-lock the person right? Because falco SHDL (short hop double laser) is kind of like spamming but not infa-lazering. Also falco can spam b, shooting out lots of lasers, is that infa-lazering too?

[Kane]

Spamming a move is spamming a move, you can do it all you want as long as there is a way out or around it.

With something like Falco's lazer, its going to fall under the blanket rule of:
If the other player is "locked" due to your attack, you can perform that attack three times in a row without penalty.


The infa-lock blanket rule is going to be touch and go this year. I'd suggest practicing with your main and either have someone watch your matches, or save the replays so you can watch for anything that you think a judge may think is a infa-lock.

[MachinegunNorm]

Kane, on Apr 13 2009, 07:45 PM, said:

Spamming a move is spamming a move, you can do it all you want as long as there is a way out or around it.

With something like Falco's lazer, its going to fall under the blanket rule of:
If the other player is "locked" due to your attack, you can perform that attack three times in a row without penalty.


The infa-lock blanket rule is going to be touch and go this year. I'd suggest practicing with your main and either have someone watch your matches, or save the replays so you can watch for anything that you think a judge may think is a infa-lock.

flaco's lazer lock isn't an infinite, they get to the end of the stage and its done, plus if you just tech hitting the ground you won't get into it in the first place.

[Kane]

It's not infinite against every character, but there are two or three - the super/heavyweights. The next laxer hits before they hit the ground.

[Tatsuya Madoka]

I'm scared to ask this but...

Sliding Snake (Sliding mortar)

Yay or Nay