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Obama In Air Gear!? OMAHA! OMAHA! OMAHA!

#31 User is offline   FlyingElf 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 12:59 AM

View PostKeiichi-chan, on Jan 26 2009, 01:14 AM, said:

I defintely subscribe to that saying "People get the leader they deserve" instead of them being elected because "the people wanted it", though. Americans were scared and making stupid decisions after 9/11 so they blindly supported Bush and fell for his scare tactics. We got what we deserved for hoping out headstrong uncle with the shotgun would just take care of and protect us. I dont think it's just "america's the best so everyone's jealous." That's part of it, but it doesnt help that Americans elect a leader who ignores the UN and burns international bridges at every turn.


That and Kerry was so terrible...I mean I hated Bush, I hated his scare tactics, but I really didn't blame anyone for voting for him because what Kerry was offering wasn't a whole lot better.
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#32 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:17 AM

View PostKeiichi-chan, on Jan 26 2009, 06:14 AM, said:

That's part of it, but it doesnt help that Americans elect a leader who ignores the UN and burns international bridges at every turn.


This must be the same UN that was getting kickbacks from Saddam--Google "Oil for Food" and read how it was really "Oil for Palaces and Favors." Or maybe it was the same UN that somehow manages to condemn Israel for human rights abuses but never seems to condemn Hamas for murdering gays, or Hezbollah for hiding their rockets in schools, or Iran for lynching suspected adulteresses. Or the IAEA that only seems to find Syrian or Iranian nuclear research programs after Israel flattens them.

Should we mention the UN whose peacekeepers seem to be attracted to little girls in Zaire? Or the one that likes to scream bloody murder at the US for being too slow for tsunami relief when US ships were in the area a full 72 hours before the UN got there? Or the one that thinks it's entirely appropriate for Libya, Syria, and Iran to be on the UN Commission for Human Rights?

Bush had every right to ignore the UN. Which he didn't, by the way--he sent Colin Powell there to make the case to go after Saddam (which is more than, say, France did when they crushed the rebellion in the Ivory Coast in 2003, or Russia when they decided to hit Georgia last year). The UN stopped being effective when it started being a sounding board for dictators to spout off on. Dag Hammerskojd would break down and cry if he saw what Kofi Annan and Ban Ki-Moon have made of his dream.

The only laughingstock that's run for President recently is the idiot who said that we need the UN's permission to do anything in this world, when it's very clear that no one else on Earth subscribes to the same notion. That idiot isn't Obama, BTW. It was John Kerry. Which is, of course, why he lost the 2004 election to Bush by nearly the same margin Obama beat McCain.

Our best hope is that Obama has the same record Bush has had in keeping Americans from being murdered by terrorists, which I believe is now seven years and counting. I also fervently hope that some Americans wake up and realize that there are people in this world who will not be appeased until we are all dead, and that it doesn't take another 9/11 to do it. That's not a scare tactic, anymore than Hitler's threats to kill every Jew he found were scare tactics. Sometimes the bad guys aren't afraid to tell the truth...and people won't believe them when they do.

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#33 User is offline   Keiichi-chan 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:04 PM

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Our best hope is that Obama has the same record Bush has had in keeping Americans from being murdered by terrorists

It's not like his actions helped create a haven for terrorist or create MORE of them or anything.
Didn't America have a chance to support the rebel group that was ready to topple Sadam years ago, but pull support at the last minute and leave them on their own. You're totally right about the UN, but it's not like America hasn't supported its share of horrible dicatators(including Hussein) in the past for our own personal profit.

And I just do not think for a second if Gore or Kerry were President instead of Bush, the US would be like, this steaming pile of rubble right now or a police state ruled by Bin Laden or something. What idea exactly did Bush implement that kept us so safe from terrorism? Sadam is hardly Bin Laden, a bad man, ofcourse, but is he the terrorist that caused 9/11? No way. I seem to remember Bush letting that one get away scott-free. I seem to remember him shutteling the Bin ladens out of the country and ignoring messages from Powell that they had Bin Laden cornered post-9/11.

The international community saw Bush as the Emperor with No Clothes, not some intimidating figure keeping evil-doers in check as far as I can tell. He funneled all our military force into a foreign country that didnt attack us, to finish some revenge grudge from his father's presidency and that's supposed to make me feel safer from international terrorism?

#34 User is offline   sentinel28a 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:26 PM

Keiichi, you're a great guy, but you might want to do a little research before you start spouting off.

First of all, Clinton had the opportunity to kill bin Laden in the Sudan in 1998. He flubbed it.

Second: bin Laden's family left the US once flights were allowed again. Not sooner. This is what happens when you get your information from Leni Riefenstahl Michael Moore.

Third: everyone thought that Saddam had WMD. That includes Kerry, Hillary, Reid, and just about every Democrat up there. It also includes France. Given that this guy was another "Death to America" type and liked to pay off suicide bombers, I can understand why Bush thought he might be a threat. He was also a genocidal dictator, but I guess we're just supposed to let them go these days. Deposing bastards is soooo 1940s. Hey wait! Hitler never attacked us either! Why the hell did we go after him?!

Fourth: in the modern age, you don't wait for people to hit you first. You might not survive the first attack.

Fifth: I'd like to see any of Bush's critics find bin Laden, in the worst terrain on earth, where he's being sheltered by tribal leaders he's related to by marriage. If it's so easy, then why don't they step up to the plate? I don't see Obama offering any new solutions.

Sixth: if Bush was such a fool, why are so many of his guys in DoD--Petraeus and Gates, for instance--being kept on by Obama?

Seventh: what did Bush do? Scare the hell out of the terrorists who thought we would do nothing but lob a few cruise missiles, implement plans to hunt them down, and then either capture or kill them. Al-Qaeda as a threat has ebbed largely because most of their tactical leadership is dead, in Gitmo, or in hiding. Maybe Gore would've done the same thing; if bin Laden had criticized global warming, Gore would've hunted him down and eaten his heart on PPV. Kerry? Don't make me laugh.

Eighth: what would be this new haven for terrorists you speak of, Keiichi? Iraq? Yeah, that's a real safe place for AQ, isn't it. Maybe you can ask al-Zarqawi how well that worked out.

Ninth: we never supported Saddam except when he was fighting Iran, and that was only because he and the Ayatollah couldn't both lose. You must be thinking of that paragon of virtue, France...for some reason the French never seem to be criticized for, I don't know, building a nuclear reactor for Saddam.

But never mind. I'm not going to convince you. Obama will save us all, I'm sure.

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#35 User is offline   Keiichi-chan 

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:55 PM

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Hey wait! Hitler never attacked us either! Why the hell did we go after him?!

America didnt immediately jump into WW II to take down Hitler or anything.
I know Sadam is a bad guy and all, but comeon...every dicatator is NOT Adolf Hitler. Sadam is one of many "bad men" and dicatators in the world, is America going to go after every single one of them now?? Sadam's not even the worst of them. But I've said my peace and since this isnt the political views thread, I guess I wont say anymore on the subject.

FTR, I'm not a democrat and I never, ever claimed Clinton was a good President or that I have ANY high expectations for the Obama presidency(cause I don't), but starting an arbitraty war to advance your own personal agendy and spending ridiculous amounts of the country's budget while using a national tragedy for justification, easily makes you one of the worst presidents in recent generations in my eyes.

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