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Action Must Be Taken! URGENT

#1 User is offline   Bugmeyer 

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Post icon  Posted 03 September 2008 - 06:17 PM

Last year I got in a little trouble for badmouthing artists who I thought all looked the same. Turns out, it was a duo of artists selling their work at a variety of tables under different names! These artists(who I think are known well enough by reputation) have repeatedly disrespected every aspect of the community in a highly unethical campaign to mine our fandom for fast cash.

NO MORE! These people need to be blacklisted and new rules put in place.

This should be a self policing community, and I think we should have a zero tolerance policy on this behavior to prevent further exploitation. We need to set an example so more people don't attempt to fill up the alley with churned out carbon copies in an attempt to cash in quick on the unsuspecting masses.

There needs to be some simple additions added to the artist alley reg this year. I would not be bringing them up, but this has become a real problem.

1. All artists must provide a link to examples of what they want to display/sell to verify that their creations follow the guidelines laid out by the rules(or that they have anything to display at all)

2. No more than one table per artist unless they have a previous history or requiring more than one table. (IE NeonDragon)

3. Artists must be predominantly present at their table. It is strictly prohibited to falsely identify yourself as the creator of a piece you did not create.

4. Any artists found attempting to circumventing the rules will be ejected from the alley without refund or recourse.

Please post constructive input. I would love to know what other people think.
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#2 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 08:02 PM

View PostBugmeyer, on Sep 3 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

Last year I got in a little trouble for badmouthing artists who I thought all looked the same. Turns out, it was a duo of artists selling their work at a variety of tables under different names! These artists(who I think are known well enough by reputation) have repeatedly disrespected every aspect of the community in a highly unethical campaign to mine our fandom for fast cash.

NO MORE! These people need to be blacklisted and new rules put in place.

This should be a self policing community, and I think we should have a zero tolerance policy on this behavior to prevent further exploitation. We need to set an example so more people don't attempt to fill up the alley with churned out carbon copies in an attempt to cash in quick on the unsuspecting masses.

There needs to be some simple additions added to the artist alley reg this year. I would not be bringing them up, but this has become a real problem.

1. All artists must provide a link to examples of what they want to display/sell to verify that their creations follow the guidelines laid out by the rules(or that they have anything to display at all)

2. No more than one table per artist unless they have a previous history or requiring more than one table. (IE NeonDragon)

3. Artists must be predominantly present at their table. It is strictly prohibited to falsely identify yourself as the creator of a piece you did not create.

4. Any artists found attempting to circumventing the rules will be ejected from the alley without refund or recourse.

Please post constructive input. I would love to know what other people think.

As much as I like your input on this situation you have disrespected others in grand stand public forum. You should have approached me by pm or email. In addition if this was a self policing community that would mean that Artist Alley community would police its self, which would make it difficult for people to sell things who voice their opinion against FanArt.

1. Links to all the art people plan to sell is unrealistic and it would slow down people getting tables.

2. Amount of tables regulated to artists has always been a max of 3, in effect if it were limited further it would stifle the ability for some people new to the Alley to make money.

3. I will consider require an artist to be in effect chained to their table. I will make that decision when/if that time comes. Yet unrealistic.

4. Artists who circumvent the rules are then subject to the disciplinary action described in the rules.

Also we have been revising/updating the rules since July to prevent such things from happening and numerous other problems.
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#3 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 09:21 PM

Thank you for your concern :D .

If anyone else has ideas my intention is not to silence them, but to promote discussion. If it is about a compliant about other artists pm me or email me. My goal/mission is to improve the Alley/Show. With your input and ideas it will make things faster and better. I think it would be a dis-service to you all by stepping around issues on why things wont work, they might in the future but for now I think you can handle the truth without me sugar coating it tell we all get hyper.
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#4 User is offline   maqqy96 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 09:41 PM

I think what he's refering to is the incident at Otakon's Artist Alley. There's evidence to support that someone (one group) bought around 14 tables throughout the alley, all of them listed as separate artists. It ends up, it was one artist who enlisted the help of their friends to sell as much of their art as possible. I was in the alley at Otakon myself, and while I didn't get to walk around much, I did notice certain tables seemed to be selling the same prints as others. It wasn't until after that it was announced what happened. It didn't really affect me since I was able to get a table for myself, I feel bad for those who couldn't get a table because someone would pull a stunt like this.

While I agree that having us submit pieces of art for verification would slow things down greatly, some form of action (like a Blacklist of artists no longer welcome) might not be such a bad idea. I won't name any names at this point, as I have no proof, but I think it's not such a bad idea to keep an eye out for those trying to circumvent the rules.

On another note, I really enjoyed selling at ACen this year, and I hope to return next year with even more to sell.

#5 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 09:53 PM

View Postmaqqy96, on Sep 3 2008, 10:41 PM, said:

I think what he's refering to is the incident at Otakon's Artist Alley. There's evidence to support that someone (one group) bought around 14 tables throughout the alley, all of them listed as separate artists. It ends up, it was one artist who enlisted the help of their friends to sell as much of their art as possible. I was in the alley at Otakon myself, and while I didn't get to walk around much, I did notice certain tables seemed to be selling the same prints as others. It wasn't until after that it was announced what happened. It didn't really affect me since I was able to get a table for myself, I feel bad for those who couldn't get a table because someone would pull a stunt like this.

While I agree that having us submit pieces of art for verification would slow things down greatly, some form of action (like a Blacklist of artists no longer welcome) might not be such a bad idea. I won't name any names at this point, as I have no proof, but I think it's not such a bad idea to keep an eye out for those trying to circumvent the rules.

On another note, I really enjoyed selling at ACen this year, and I hope to return next year with even more to sell.

I also know of at least 3 other cons that had this happen to them. As soon as we heard what was going on we jumped onto the rules and began to fix the problem. I had a friend of mine that was unable to get a table due to that instance, which was a very good motivation if you ask me. :D
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#6 User is offline   maqqy96 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 10:34 PM

It's really sad that things like this happen. You'd like to think that most Artist are kind and curtious to each other, and then things like this happen. All we can do is hope it doesn't happen anymore.

#7 User is offline   ranefea 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 10:37 PM

I as well agree about keeping an eye out for those who might be trying to weasel their way around the rules. I see that a lot at cons - I think that ACen has done the best of those so far. =)

Quote

3. Artists must be predominantly present at their table. It is strictly prohibited to falsely identify yourself as the creator of a piece you did not create.


As for the "chaining" an artist to their table - you're right Voltaire, it is unrealistic. I would like to see something in place that would have the artist there most of the time - personally it annoys me when myself and my friends are stuck at our tables almost the entire time and the artist across from us is never there, relying on their friends to take care of things. Of course, this would be something hard to enforce. Some attendees ask if the person behind the table is the artist, most don't, and the staff can't be checking every table, every hour. Also, just because someone is behind the table that isn't the artist doesn't mean they're claiming to BE the artist. I see many artist's who have family or friends help them out. For instance, my boyfriend helps me run mine, and will take over manning the table if I need to go to the bathroom, or have a panel or gathering I need to run off to, but never does he claim to be the artist. Also my friend and her sisters and mother share a table. MOST of the artwork on the table is hers(some being her sister's or mother's), but they will take over when she has a panel to run or something of the like.

Something I suggest is to require the actual artist to leave a sign or something up when they are not there informing others that the person who IS there is just handling the business. Or if at all possible place stickers on the Alley badges signifying who is the artist and who is a helper. And since people could just switch badges, have staff check ID if suspicion happens to arise. I'm very tired right now, so I'm probably missing major flaws in this, but if someone wants to take this idea and build off of it, go ahead. =)

And Voltaire, I want to say that I think you've been doing a great job as DH so far. Keep it up! =D

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#8 User is offline   frzndaqiri 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 07:46 AM

I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a few examples of work, to try and help with the "buy a bunch of tables so my art is everywhere" problem. Most people don't have the ability to draw in multiple distinct styles, and it would at least allow a heads up to the DH to keep an eye on those tables to be sure that they are following the rules if they look similar. (Art can start all looking the same after 500 prints ;) )

Having ALL of it pre-screened seems to be problematic for both the artists and the people processing registration, especially given the size of ACEN's AA, however. Unfortunately, the most resourceful of folk are going to find a way around things, and some of it is going to be at con corrections as issues are brought to staff's attention. I think a balance of prereg screening and after the fact warnings/dismissal are going to be the best answer.

I also don't agree with the 1 table restriction, excepting small cons like Jafax or Animarathon where space is highly limited, if someone needs more than one table then they should be able to purchase it. I think the 3 table max is fine, and again, one table limits would not have prevented the Otakon incident anyway. I am highly biased, as I am someone who regularly gets 2 tables (and still has space issues!), and has to severely limit my stock when shifting to smaller conventions.

As far as the artist at the table, I think that the only person being hurt is the artist themselves. I've seen more than one occasion where a customer was put off enough by the artist constantly being unavailable that they gave up coming back. Also, how do you prove who the artist is? Force them to draw something in front of you? What if they only work digitally? Unless someone finds their own work being sold by another person without permission and reports it, I think this is again something hard to police by staff ahead of time.

I can appreciate the problem of a single artist buying half the alley for their own means, and definitely something should be done to help prevent it, but it's going to take a lot of thought and work to find what will keep it beneficial to all parties.

I'll mull it over, and if I come up with any grand ideas, will post later.
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#9 User is offline   KurolokiRoku 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:21 AM

Regarding artists staying at their tables, although this might be hard to enforce, why not make it a rule that everyone treat their time in the AA like a work day, allowing them/us either a 30 minute lunch break or two 15 minute breaks some time during the day, in addition to 5 minute breaks every hour? That ought to regulate the time spent away from tables, don't you think? You could have a punishment for people who stay away from their table for prolonged periods of time without an emergency excuse...say, forfeit their table? Because why have one if you're not going to be there at all?

But to get back on topic, I guess the real issue here is being able to validate the true artist's identity to prevent them from splitting up their work across multiple tables. I'm not really a fan of everyone sending links and pictures to AA staff when signing up for a table either. I think you should ask for a few gophers to volunteer to discreetly move up and down the artist alley to make sure everything is unique and within the rules. If they don't already do that.

I am all for the idea of giving special badges to artists vs. artist friends/helpers--maybe color-coded ones?
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#10 User is offline   this_chick25 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:31 AM

View PostViz_K Prince, on Sep 4 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

You could have a punishment for people who stay away from their table for prolonged periods of time without an emergency excuse...say, forfeit their table? Because why have one if you're not going to be there at all?


How long is "too long away from your table"?

Not everyone just leaves to go to the bathroom or to eat, or to check on their other (up to two more) tables. There are artists that have tables for more than one day over the weekend to maximize sales, and in addition to that run panels or participate in other events like the Masquerade. Not only do these things involve additional preparation, like running to your room (possibly in another hotel) or your car, and then travel time through crowded halls, but then there is the roundup/setup time and the actual event itself, not to mention cleanup/packing/travel time to get back afterward.
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#11 User is offline   Bugmeyer 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 11:40 AM

I believe I have been misunderstood on at least one point, so I would like to clarify.

Wall o’ Text Approaches!

I wasn't attempting to claim that artists should be "chained to their table". What I meant was that there should not be tables where a person who is not the artist is primarily running it. If the artist wants to take half a day off, that's not a problem; the problem is when they sit someone down in their stead to falsely promote their work. People generally assume that the person behind the table is the creator of the work in the artist alley(this is not the dealer's room). There have been multiple cases of people substituting themselves with female a Asian friend or a younger sibling in an attempt to defraud their customers. Certainly this was the case at Otakon

I think that if you want to accuse me of publicly insulting fanart, then you have probably gotten the cliffs notes version of the survey I took after Fanime last year. I urge you to go back through what I've actually said in the past before you make any blanket statements about my intent. I don’t have a stance against fanart, I DO have a stance for free creativity in all forms. However, we have all seen unfortunate attempts to exploit people’s fandom for the purpose of profit, and I found that the vast majority of artists agree that it is reprehensible. Please don't mistake my intent on this matter. I don't want to restrict anyone from fulfilling their full potential at the alley.

The table limit is one without any concrete resolution. I know that there are some artists that have a lot of merch that requires more space, I think that should be accommodated to whatever degree the DH feels is fair. However, there has been a history of people buying the maximum number of tables without need in the false belief that it will boost their sales. While space is at a premium, I think everyone can agree that would rather be more inclusive to more artists rather than seeing the space sold to someone who is only selling 8.5x11 prints spread out over 27 feet of table. I recently was at Gencon and witnessed the top fantasy painters in the country display their work at the artist alley. The only person with more than 9 feet of table was the guest of honor. We can follow a similar model by having a single table be the default purchase with a special opt in for more with a brief statement in defense of this need.

Although I am calling for reform that takes the form of limitations, what I am pleading for is a greater spirit of inclusion. This alley has grown into something quite impressive and I would love to see more artists experience it firsthand without having to fight a reg that fills up in minutes.

This post has been edited by Bugmeyer: 04 September 2008 - 11:58 AM

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#12 User is offline   frzndaqiri 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:44 PM

Even cons that have a one table limit are filled up in moments. Also, I'd like to know, (Voltaire, can you check??), what the percentage is of artists with multiple tables vs single tables at ACEN. Would a limit even increase the number of individual artists that much?

From my memory, it's mostly single table, or HALF tables even.

I have not seen a problem at ACEN where people purchase more than they need. First of all, I would think it would be cost prohibitive to most. Secondly, staff has always been very prompt and responsive if there is any problem such as this. Now, as you say, this does not mean that cannot change, and that it shouldn't be considered ahead of time. But I don't think it's worth the panic that it's being made out to be (not you, but some other threads). I have missed out on an AA before because of demand, and it stings, but really the odds of it being because someone hogged more than the allotted share has to be very low.

What if I've got a table with my friend, and something happens so they can't make it? They ask me to take their stuff and sell it on their behalf. (This is mostly for Voltaire, something to consider if you want it to be laid out in the revised rules. I have seen/heard of this done.) I'm kind of taking both sides at this point, do you insist that the artist must be there for a percentage of the time and prohibit people from selling another's work (even with permission)? If so, how do you prove who the artist is (as my comment above)? It's really not a simple question. I don't envy the staff at all on these things.

Now for a suggestion! It could certainly be in the rules that any person found using more table space than is deemed necessary, that they will be restricted to a single table the following year. "Necessary" being hashed out in the rules before registration - Something along the lines of amount of empty space vs # of individual pieces of art.

If it is proven that someone has abused the maximum limit, they are subject to a one year probationary ban. This would need to be discussed of course with staff and legal counsel (considering the litigious nature of the US).

Lastly, I don't believe he was saying that YOU were against fan art, he was saying that if AA was self policing, then those who ARE against fan art would create a bad atmosphere for those that do it. =) (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

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#13 User is offline   Bugmeyer 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 03:32 PM

View Postfrzndaqiri, on Sep 4 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

Lastly, I don't believe he was saying that YOU were against fan art, he was saying that if AA was self policing, then those who ARE against fan art would create a bad atmosphere for those that do it. =) (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


Actually, I've been overheard bashing fanartists before. There was even a thread on 4chan flaming me because of it :) It was a simple misconception because I was really complaining about 2 particular artists I didnít want to name publicly. These are the same artists that I am bringing up in this thread. But at this point theyíve made such a huge stink that they donít even need to be named explicitly.

Seriously though, even if there is a 3 table limit I donít think the cost is currently prohibitive enough to prevent table stacking. Part of the reason the reg is such a problem is the low price. Having new artists bust in is a great thing, but I would prefer to limit the space to artists who are confident enough in their craft to put real money down on it. Gencon has the highest quality art Iíve ever seen, and theirs was a mere $225 per table. Itís a small price for someone who intends to really sell or get exposure but itís expensive enough to be out of reach for people to do it for lulz. Not that I REALLY want to pay more for a table or anything :P
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#14 User is offline   kyrn 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 05:36 PM

I think it is really important to avoid what happened at some of the other cons so as many artists as possible can have tables.

I remember there were a couple artist groups with several members who had two tables. I don't think that is a bad thing. But not more than 2.

At least is doesn't LOOK like ACEN has a huge space restriction for tables because it's no stuffed into a small room.

No disagreement to showing examples of work at all. Don't we usually have to give our website on the form?

Artists are already chained to their tables :) Not once in 3 years have I had a chance to attend ANYTHING at ACEN outside of Alley. The only fun I get is to maybe wander away to the dealer's room once in a while. Usually my friends are next to me, but artists need a break once in a while. I'm sure some people would actually like a chance to go to something at the con.

#15 User is offline   Lezzy-cat 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:15 PM

I can understand the idea of screening peoples artwork upon table purchasing, but I don't really see it helping much. I mean, there are a lot of art thieves out there, and people could just rip off someone else's site and claim it as their own then and at con. Not to mention not everyone has the materials necessary to present examples of their work ahead of time (like if they don't have a scanner or don't have a way of doing digital photos). And then there are people that have such a variety to their style that even if they provided examples ahead of time, it may not match things they have for sale, especially for the more sculpture-based art. I do think the best idea to prevent the situation mentioned in the top post would be to have like a few designated scouts (or almost like secret shoppers, so they're spying on people and checking things out, but nobody knows that they're staff), to wander through the alley checking out what everyone has for sale at various times during the weekend, and keeping an eye out for any duplicates (and obviously anything that shouldn't be sold, like bootlegs and such).

View PostBugmeyer, on Sep 4 2008, 05:32 PM, said:

Gencon has the highest quality art Iíve ever seen, and theirs was a mere $225 per table. Itís a small price for someone who intends to really sell or get exposure but itís expensive enough to be out of reach for people to do it for lulz. Not that I REALLY want to pay more for a table or anything :P

Just because tables are priced lower than Gencon doesn't mean everyone who gets a table is "doin it for the lulz". This year was my first year in any Artist Alley, and I almost didn't go because the expenses were getting to high. I'm glad I did end up going, because for the items I had made, I paid for all my expenses and then some, which I definitely wasn't expecting. A price that high seems a bit unreasonable for general people at an anime con. Granted, we might not have the most fantastically amazing artwork out there, but hey, we're doing it because we enjoy it, and we're trying to make some money off of it. Not everyone can afford to spend that much money on a table--that is anything but a small price. Ever hear of starving artists? We spend all of our money on supplies and bills, we can't afford to spend that much on a table XD

View Postkyrn, on Sep 4 2008, 07:36 PM, said:

Artists are already chained to their tables :) Not once in 3 years have I had a chance to attend ANYTHING at ACEN outside of Alley. The only fun I get is to maybe wander away to the dealer's room once in a while. Usually my friends are next to me, but artists need a break once in a while. I'm sure some people would actually like a chance to go to something at the con.

I didn't get to wander away from the table as much as I wanted to. I had a blast being in the Alley as much as I was, and it was hard to get away, but I had to get away a couple times for photoshoots and such.
Its really more beneficial for the artist themselves to be at their table more so than not. I shared a table with a couple of my friends this year, and I left a few times to browse the dealer room first thing, to catch photoshoots, that kind of thing, and I'm wishing my photoshoots would've been after Alley hours, as when I got back to the table, my table mates said a couple times that people came by wanting commissions, and someone else came by interested in one of my paintings, but refused to buy it unless I was actually there.
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#16 User is offline   Purplegodess 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 08:28 PM

To ansewer a few questions before phil does.... we dont really havea problem with people buying multiple tablesmost of hte studios only had a single table last yearso its no where asdramatic as its being made out.
We do in fact have people who actually are checking out what youare selling and we do make people remove things from their tables.
We are very aware of the situation which has occured with other alleys but unfortunately it is something that will be dealt with at con if those studios intend to try to pull hte same thing here at ACEN, and it will not be tolerated.
Um...and on the topic of requiring artists to be present... we do have a part in the rules that says if you abandon your table for an extneded period of time you could loose your table unless you check out with the AA DH.
hope any of that helps :wub:

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#17 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:04 PM

Also to address some other things that have been stated.

Blacklist: Yes we do have this. It would be unethical to reveal the names/studios that are on this. Rest assured this is a very serious matter to put people on this list and is handled accordingly.

Official Secret Shopper Program: We do not have this program set-up inside the Alley its self. Although I have in the past looked into this there is more than a few problems that arise.

To also let you know, "Alley Staff" do roam around the alley. We keep in mind many things as we do this.

Quote

Also, I'd like to know, (Voltaire, can you check??), what the percentage is of artists with multiple tables vs single tables at ACEN. Would a limit even increase the number of individual artists that much?


For not wanting to begin flooding the forum with numbers, statistics, and why information was discarded due to being an extreme. Please trust me, there is a lot of it. I can answer that question. The overwhelming majority of people in this Alley purchase 1-1/2 table(s)

I would also like to thank Jesica aka. Purplegodess for your post regarding this topic.
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#18 User is offline   maqqy96 

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 02:39 PM

I'll admit, staying behind the table is probably for the best in artist alley. But we artist do like to go out and enjoy the cons sometimes. After all, we bought a badge; why not use it? It's also fun to bring along a booth "helper" for when you need a break or just want to stretch your legs. It's also fun when they get "blamed" for your art.

I draw a lot of weird stuff (Inuyasha licking himself, drunken Sailor Moon, nude fairies, etc). Since I'm a girl, and I draw a lot of female figures, it's considered okay. My booth helper at Otakon last year was my friend Craig. I once got up to use the restroom and asked him to watch the table for me, and no sooner do I step aside then some lady comes up and calls Craig a "Bad Man" for drawing such art. Immediately, he points at me and starts denying anything to do with any of it, looking paniced. It was so funny to watch.

So while staying behind your table is probably for the best, sometimes it's more fun to take a step back and watch. ;)

Sorry if this is off topic, but I figured after some serious discussion, we could all use a smile.

#19 User is offline   Bugmeyer 

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 05:41 PM

The case I think of in particular was an artist who took all their 'B' list art and sold it at a separate table with their little sister running it. Everyone who saw it thought "wow, that cute little girl is so good at drawing!" instead of "this chick is 28 and she never learned to draw hands?". That's BS, and I think it should be grounds for getting kicked out. That's all I'm saying.

People helping at the table is standard, but there are reasonable(and moral) limits.
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#20 User is offline   bunnybeth 

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 02:31 PM

View PostBugmeyer, on Sep 4 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Having new artists bust in is a great thing, but I would prefer to limit the space to artists who are confident enough in their craft to put real money down on it. Gencon has the highest quality art Iíve ever seen, and theirs was a mere $225 per table. Itís a small price for someone who intends to really sell or get exposure but itís expensive enough to be out of reach for people to do it for lulz. Not that I REALLY want to pay more for a table or anything :P

Gencon is not an anime con. At all the anime cons we've gone to as artists, around $50 is pretty standard for a full AA table. And, my studio isn't exactly newbies, but that sort of table cost would be prohibitive to us, as we never make all that much money overall - maybe if we had some nice books or multiple items with a price point higher than $2 we could swing something like that. But, having a higher table cost does not always equal higher quality art. Only a fully juried show (ala SDCC) would do that.
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#21 User is offline   Sapphy 

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 03:07 PM

View PostBugmeyer, on Sep 4 2008, 04:32 PM, said:

Having new artists bust in is a great thing, but I would prefer to limit the space to artists who are confident enough in their craft to put real money down on it.


Some of us have to get our foot in the door -somehow-. Assuming I can buy a table next year before they sell out, I WILL be there next year. I run a webcomic as a hobby and while I do think I do a Damn Good job with it, I'm not a professional. I have a ton of room for improvement and I do not make a living from it. Spending $60 on a table for the weekend to promote the comic and be around other artists is great. Sales would be great too, of course, but getting more readers would be excellent.

Quote

Gencon has the highest quality art Iíve ever seen, and theirs was a mere $225 per table. Itís a small price for someone who intends to really sell or get exposure but itís expensive enough to be out of reach for people to do it for lulz. Not that I REALLY want to pay more for a table or anything :P


As bunnybeth said, higher costs do not make all of the professional artists pop out of the woodwork. $225 is horribly expensive for something like an anime convention.
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#22 User is offline   maqqy96 

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 09:04 PM

I'll be honest, if a convention were to raise it's table prices to anything above $100, I wouldn't attend (and Otakon's getting close to that with $70 a table). Not on the grounds that I think I won't make enough to cover it (I usually make a good amount at cons). But because there are so many other cons where I can make the same amount without paying as much. It may seem cheap, but you have to be when you live convention to convention.

Higher table prices may encourage more serious artists who want to sell, but it may also chase others away simply because they can't afford to loose that much. Keeping tables around $50 is reasonable for any convention of moderate size.

#23 User is offline   Christy 

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:01 PM

I would also like to note that there are occasions when is it possible that multipule artists will legitmatelly have the same product on thier tables due to collibrations. A few examples include a book I put out this year that had a guest artist. She did the work on consignment which means she provided the art to my story and in exchange she got selling and preprint rights to the issue. As a result, in the 08 Acen AA, we both had copies of that book to sell. I intend to repeat again this year with a different artist on the next issue. A second example would be an an Anthology we produced, also on consignment where the contributors were allowed reprint and sale rights to the issue. When the Chotto anthology was put out a few years back at Acen, about a third of the artists in the alley were carrying it because they were all contributors.

I do think it's wrong to get around table limit rules by effectively hiring your friends to register tables in thier names to sell your stuff. It prevents other artists from occupying those spaces and allowing a bigger variety of work to be sold in the alley. However, circumstances beyond that need to be considered. To require a virtual catalogue of work from an artist is unreasionable and will put extra work on the staff. There are currently rules in place regarding spending time at your AA table or having an agent there.

Personally, I feel it is foolish of any artist to spend good money on space in an alley and then only spend a few hours each day there. When I go to a con in the alley, I accept the fact that I will not be doing many activities not related to my work (I generally don't count panels I run or sit on because those are always alley related), and that Alley hours are work hours. This may mean I can't get into masquarade because the advance line starts before the alley closes, that I can't attend more than one fan panel, and I have to put tight limits on how long I hang in the dealer's room, but that's the price of doing business. Artists can't sit there all day with no breaks, but at the same time, they should spend at least 80% of the alley hours in the alley.

The best way to prevent this type of rule bending is for the AA staff to simply be vigilent at con and inforce the rules. If they discover that one or two people are hiring friends to sell work that's not thier own at 12 different tables, then there are two distinct Acen AA rule violations that can be invoked. 1) that the work being displayed and sold is the product of your own hands or you are authorized to sell it for the artist as an agent and 2) that there is a table limit to the number of tables that can be purchased. Agents representing an artist are tied to that artist and should be bound by the table max rule, or else they are in violation of not selling thier own work.

#24 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 03:02 PM

View PostChristy, on Sep 22 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

I would also like to note that there are occasions when is it possible that multipule artists will legitmatelly have the same product on thier tables due to collibrations. A few examples include a book I put out this year that had a guest artist. She did the work on consignment which means she provided the art to my story and in exchange she got selling and preprint rights to the issue. As a result, in the 08 Acen AA, we both had copies of that book to sell. I intend to repeat again this year with a different artist on the next issue. A second example would be an an Anthology we produced, also on consignment where the contributors were allowed reprint and sale rights to the issue. When the Chotto anthology was put out a few years back at Acen, about a third of the artists in the alley were carrying it because they were all contributors.

I do think it's wrong to get around table limit rules by effectively hiring your friends to register tables in thier names to sell your stuff. It prevents other artists from occupying those spaces and allowing a bigger variety of work to be sold in the alley. However, circumstances beyond that need to be considered. To require a virtual catalogue of work from an artist is unreasionable and will put extra work on the staff. There are currently rules in place regarding spending time at your AA table or having an agent there.

Personally, I feel it is foolish of any artist to spend good money on space in an alley and then only spend a few hours each day there. When I go to a con in the alley, I accept the fact that I will not be doing many activities not related to my work (I generally don't count panels I run or sit on because those are always alley related), and that Alley hours are work hours. This may mean I can't get into masquarade because the advance line starts before the alley closes, that I can't attend more than one fan panel, and I have to put tight limits on how long I hang in the dealer's room, but that's the price of doing business. Artists can't sit there all day with no breaks, but at the same time, they should spend at least 80% of the alley hours in the alley.

The best way to prevent this type of rule bending is for the AA staff to simply be vigilent at con and inforce the rules. If they discover that one or two people are hiring friends to sell work that's not thier own at 12 different tables, then there are two distinct Acen AA rule violations that can be invoked. 1) that the work being displayed and sold is the product of your own hands or you are authorized to sell it for the artist as an agent and 2) that there is a table limit to the number of tables that can be purchased. Agents representing an artist are tied to that artist and should be bound by the table max rule, or else they are in violation of not selling thier own work.

The rules are in the process of being altered to prevent such rule bending. There will be a change. I am unable to go into detail right now, but everyone can rest easy with the knowledge that if rule bending like what has occurred happens here at ACen, it will be stopped immediately.......and further repercussions may occur due to violation of the rules.
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#25 User is offline   Voltaire30 

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 11:57 AM

The rules are up B) . IDK when they will go up on the website <_< , hopefully soon :) . If you have more questions/comments regarding how the rules prevent certain things from occurring please ask.
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#26 User is offline   Tanoshii 

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:05 PM

View Postmaqqy96, on Sep 3 2008, 10:41 PM, said:

I think what he's refering to is the incident at Otakon's Artist Alley. There's evidence to support that someone (one group) bought around 14 tables throughout the alley, all of them listed as separate artists. It ends up, it was one artist who enlisted the help of their friends to sell as much of their art as possible. I was in the alley at Otakon myself, and while I didn't get to walk around much, I did notice certain tables seemed to be selling the same prints as others. It wasn't until after that it was announced what happened. It didn't really affect me since I was able to get a table for myself, I feel bad for those who couldn't get a table because someone would pull a stunt like this.

While I agree that having us submit pieces of art for verification would slow things down greatly, some form of action (like a Blacklist of artists no longer welcome) might not be such a bad idea. I won't name any names at this point, as I have no proof, but I think it's not such a bad idea to keep an eye out for those trying to circumvent the rules.

On another note, I really enjoyed selling at ACen this year, and I hope to return next year with even more to sell.

I was also at Otakon this year, I had no idea that this happened until I heard about it, like you did. But I was fairly suspicions, one girl kept trying to sell me something I didn't want, and I had to end up just walking away, I was doubtful that any artists would do that to a potential costumer.
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