[Dogao]

I realize this is insane. But hear me out.

What do you do when something gets too big to manage? Cut it down to size.

PROBLEMS:
- Everyone wants to go to the dance but 15,000 people will not fit into one room
- Soap Bubble is invariably in the same room as the Masquerade (i.e. the largest), which invariably runs over and invariably means a huge delay
- Some of us don't want to wait until 2:30 a.m. to dance, and it's only after then the line gets acceptable
- Everyone doesn't like the same dance/techno/house/trance/electronica music
- Two words: Fire Code
- One gigantic dance with 6,000 people is incredibly difficult to manage

POTENTIAL SOLUTION:

Two smaller Soap Bubbles, held at the same time.

POTENTIAL BENEFITS:
- Smaller dances are, by their very nature, more easily managed
- Shorter lines (by 50%, in fact)
- Congoers have a choice in music from two different dj's
- MUCH less trouble with the Fire Code

Yes, I realize this would require twice the equipment, setup, etc. But to run two smaller dances does not mean twice the effort: in fact, it would be MUCH easier than one great big one. Divide and conquer, as they say.

Think about it. You could even put two different people in charge of each dance, so one person doesn't go insane managing 6000 people. And there's actually a chance people might be able to go to the bathroom without, you know, being ejected from the con.

I don't want to hear about how this would be a logistical nightmare. It's already a logistical nightmare. I want open minds responding to a radical idea that has a lot of potential. Don't disappoint me.

[Caerulea Windseeker]

Obviously the equipment exists. I cannot imagine they dismantled the equipment in the Main Programming room where they were showing all the videos just to truck it over to the Sofitel on Friday night. I would suggest doing one at the Hyatt and the other in another hotel to cut down on the number of people milling around the Hyatt. This may have the secondary benefit of reducing the number of calls to the Rosemont Public Safety folks.

Hopefully it would go toward alleviating the problem that is near and dear to my heart this con, and people would be a lot more relaxed about letting folks stay hydrated and use the facilities without having to go to the back of the line. Regardless, there still needs to be a formal system in place that will allow people to take care of themselves without having to get into an infinite line loop, otherwise you will still have the very real danger of someone getting seriously ill.

Main thing is that Dogao's right, the current situation is a logistical nightmare, both for con-goers and for I.R.T.

[tonyc_76]

Dogao, on May 20 2008, 04:04 AM, said:

Two smaller Soap Bubbles, held at the same time.[/b]

No promises, but I'll bring it up to the DH. Main problem will be staffing it. Presently I don't think we have the manpower to run two Soap Bubbles at the same time. If you want to improve the chance of this happening, join the crew.

[VoicesOfChaos]

I was thinking about this too. I think it be a good idea to have Soap Bubble A and Soap Bubble B in two different hotels.

The biggest con I see to this is I like seeing random people I know at the Soap Bubble and I now I would need to plan before hand which to go to.

Anyways I went at 2:30am and stayed till it ended, I was perfectly fine.

[pmbassist]

Not a bad idea but i'd say have them both in the same hotel to make it convenient to go back and forth or swap staffing if necessary

I got in at 11:30pm, waited 5 minutes in line .

[tweaker]

Well, then, step it up more notch. Do it like some of the parties back in the day, where one room plays one type of music and another room plays another. I used to go to a lot parties back in the day that we run this way. You might have trance in one room and gabber in another.

[tonyc_76]

pmbassist, on May 20 2008, 04:51 AM, said:

Not a bad idea but i'd say have them both in the same hotel to make it convenient to go back and forth or swap staffing if necessary

I got in at 11:30pm, waited 5 minutes in line .

It will have to be split into Hyatt and Sofitel. The physical space in Hyatt just doesn't exist to run two Soap Bubbles simultaneously. If you think otherwise, please suggest which room. Keep in mind that we need space not just for the dance floor, but for the lighting and sound system and also some space outside for the inevitable line and for people wanting to either smoke or just take a break away from the noise.

[AkaneNoHime]

tonyc_76, on May 20 2008, 05:52 AM, said:

It will have to be split into Hyatt and Sofitel. The physical space in Hyatt just doesn't exist to run two Soap Bubbles simultaneously. If you think otherwise, please suggest which room. Keep in mind that we need space not just for the dance floor, but for the lighting and sound system and also some space outside for the inevitable line and for people wanting to either smoke or just take a break away from the noise.

Ooooh I like this idea...just like it's been said, having the two Soap Bubbles at two different locations would be great for crowd control without so much of the chaos...after all, Acen already implimented a smaller form of this idea when they decided to put different panels in the different surrounding hotels. And wasn't Hardcore Synergy held at the Sofitel instead of the Hayatt? Maybe a space like that, or the space that's used for the Charity Ball or something like that could be used. Plus, if there is a medical emergency of any kind there isn't as many people for EMT to have to wade through to get to the injured/ill person. Also I would think that a lot of DJs would jump at the chance to spin an event like that with a new opportunity like this opened up.

I hope that ACEN really seriously considers this...it has a lot of really attractive possibilities for solving a lot of issues...but I've also gotta say that I still think that the bathroom pass idea should be implimented, regardless of whether or not the event is broken up into two simultaneous dances. People will still have to use the facilities while either in line or in the dance, and the bathroom pass idea could be the thing to fix any potential problems there.

[kahad]

RedXIII, on May 20 2008, 11:00 AM, said:

I'm not putting the idea completely down. It's a great idea, but it may not be possible unless it is held on separate nights.

The problem with this is that ACEN only has Friday night and Saturday night. The Soap Bubble is already on Saturday night and on Friday night you have Anime Hell/Midnight Madness and the Underground Groove.

Today bad ACEN doesn't have a third night

*cough*fourdaycon!!!*cough*

[tonyc_76]

RedXIII, on May 20 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

I'm not putting the idea completely down. It's a great idea, but it may not be possible unless it is held on separate nights.

Or we get more staffers. So keep that in mind folks, if you want to improve the chance of this happening, help us out. Join us, and together we can rule the galaxy. Well, okay, maybe not rule the galaxy, but it'll be more fun for everyone. You can join any department. It's not like there's any department that couldn't use more people.

[saiyajinimport]

Having the SoapBubble in 2 different rooms on the same nite is something i'm not ready to do if anything we will try and find another spot to hold the party. maybe in the convention center if anything, but spliting the party in 2 will cause more problems then they will solve. i've done parites in the past that have done this and honestly it splits the crowd way to much and i think ruins the spirt of the party that i'm trying to present.

if anyone else has any comment please post them in the SoapBubble/ UnderGround Groove thread in the Programming section please. i would like to read all this stuff all together.

[Caerulea Windseeker]

saiyajinimport, on May 20 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Having the SoapBubble in 2 different rooms on the same nite is something i'm not ready to do if anything we will try and find another spot to hold the party. maybe in the convention center if anything, but spliting the party in 2 will cause more problems then they will solve. i've done parites in the past that have done this and honestly it splits the crowd way to much and i think ruins the spirt of the party that i'm trying to present.

if anyone else has any comment please post them in the SoapBubble/ UnderGround Groove thread in the Programming section please. i would like to read all this stuff all together.

So, you're basically dismissing the suggestions here out of hand. It's this kind of arrogance and out-of-pocket "NO" attitude that really makes veteran con-goers like me mad. I do not see another place to hold the dance, and you know as well as anyone who's been to this con for years that there are reasons the convention center closes when it does. The Stephenson Center is not a hotel, and it does not have to stay open until 3-4 a.m. for a convention.

Just because "you don't feel like it" is not a valid reason to discount this suggestion offhand as you did. If you cannot consider suggestions made by people who had a horrendous experience in this con and deserve to have their voices heard about it simply because you don't "feel like it," perhaps you should pass on your position to someone who is more motivated to do what needs to be done to make the con successful, instead of just doing things for your own gratification.

[Dogao]

Our DH wrote "maybe in the convention center if anything, but spliting the party in 2 will cause more problems then they will solve. i've done parites in the past that have done this and honestly it splits the crowd way to much and i think ruins the spirt of the party that i'm trying to present."

Wow, seriously? Way to be open-minded. Jeez, WHY are you in charge, again?

So "It will cause more problems than it will solve"....but the only concrete reason I get is "it ruins THE SPIRIT of the party that I'M trying to present." You have GOT to be kidding me.

Well, I hope next year you intend to "present a party" that includes peeing in the corners, because that's what I'M going to do if the Soap Bubble line and overcrowding doesn't get put under control.

This is, some would say, a valid way to keep that from happening.

Maybe you should read it again, SIR.

[Kasemei]

I really do like this idea, regardless of what the DH said. I was going to staff this year, but too many events pulled me away from being able to staff. None the less, I want to do Guest Relations next year. I just wish I could cosplay.... >.<

I especially like this idea because of two reasons. One, it alleviates the space issue. Two, it gives leeway for different types of music to be played. While I personally did not liike the music being played at the Groove, other people definetly did. Two soapbubbles-two sets of music for different tastes.

[Weighted Companion Cube]

Couldn't get near the Soap Bubble line. Even when my group wanted to get close to see if it was something we wanted to attend, we got shouted at like I was trespassing on private property at least 150 yards before the Ballroom. Didn't know there was a line outside until later, and by that point it was too long to really want to go.That got me into the spirit of things, you can bet.

[Dogao]

I am not posting in a year-old topic so my radical idea can be buried in ancient nonsense. I don't care if it's more convenient for you to read this all in one post. It wasn't very convenient for me to wait in line for an hour only to have to bail at the last second to rescue my boyfriend from IRT after he had to pee.

If the only person who refuses to even consider this idea is the Department Head for this event, who seems to think everything is peachy-keen the way it is...I have another reeeealllly good radical idea.

It's time for a new department head!

[Stipper_Axel]

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 02:28 AM, said:

If the only person who refuses to even consider this idea is the Department Head for this event, who seems to think everything is peachy-keen the way it is...I have another reeeealllly good radical idea.

It's time for a new department head!

I second this notion.

[mmy-sama]

At reactor one year, they did something similar, when they had two separate dances going on at the same time. One was only for attendees 18 and older, the other was for anyone. If acen does something like that it won't necessarily ruin the spirit of the party. One idea would be to have the other dance be 21+ only so they can serve liquor. it was a good idea when they did it at reactor and I'm surprised no one else has done it.

[Caerulea Windseeker]

Stipper_Axel, on May 21 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

I second this notion.

Thirded.

[BenedictKenny]

http://www.acen.org/forums/index.php?showt...mp;#entry533422

The discussion is continued at this location.
Please pack your bags accordingly.

[Dogao]

Uh, I'd move threads, but I'd hate to intrude: it looks like those other threads are for people who actually got into the dance, instead of those of us who had to ditch due to bodily functions, or took one look at the line and bailed. Not to mention those of us unfortunate congoers who were chased off by IRT.

One thread is a teensy bit small for DJ Reactions / Testimony / Did You Get A Pic Of Me I Was The One With The Glowsticks AND Complete Dance Overhaul, wouldn't you say?

Thanks for the heads-up, though, I'll be sure to monitor that one. Maybe if we start posting in all three threads we'll get the attention of someone who actually wants to improve the con

[Dogao]

mmy-sama, on May 21 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

At reactor one year, they did something similar, when they had two separate dances going on at the same time. One was only for attendees 18 and older, the other was for anyone. If acen does something like that it won't necessarily ruin the spirit of the party. One idea would be to have the other dance be 21+ only so they can serve liquor. it was a good idea when they did it at reactor and I'm surprised no one else has done it.

I don't know what the taboo is at ACEN about following the successful examples of other cons. We'll still be the biggest and have our distinguishing factors (no other can has a car show, for instance) if we follow examples that work. Take the registration nightmare LAST year, for instance: the first ten phone calls after that fiasco should have been to other conventions asking them about their system. If Anime X-Plosion can get 20,000 people through registration with less than two hours wait time, and we can't get 12K through without a nine-hour wait, what are THEY doing that we're NOT doing?

I would think MAPS would have sufficient contacts to have a pow-wow with other cons.

Regarding the dance specifically, however, now we have a concrete example of the two-dance tactic working successfully for another con.

With that in mind...thoughts?

[Cuddles116]

RedXIII, on May 20 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

I am part of IRT and was working the Soap Bubble and we were grossly understaffed.

About the possible issues of being understaffed perhaps whomever is incharge of putting together the staff/volunteer page could have a look at AX's page. (Anime expo's page is a very good examplge of a good sell...yes you have to sell the benefits of volunteering to people rather than having some super bland page that states none of the perks you get for working your butt off lol) A more informed crowd could lead to more staff members.

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 06:28 AM, said:

It's time for a new department head!

I don't think it's time for a new DH at all. I'm sure MANY solutions have been looked at in the past and there are obviously reasons a simple solution has not been pursued. I really hate when someone with no idea of inner workings goes to an extreme.

mmy-sama, on May 21 2008, 04:49 PM, said:

One idea would be to have the other dance be 21+ only so they can serve liquor. it was a good idea when they did it at reactor and I'm surprised no one else has done it.

Minus the liquor since that itself is a whole new mess of problems (If I recall all of my Reactor experiences there is ALWAYS property damage, getting 6,000+ people sh!tfaced at Acen probably isn't the best idea, there will be a lot more things that are needed, liquor liability coverage for one and then all the extra costs of getting liquor servers/hiring a catering type party, plus additional people needed to take money whether it be for liquor tickets etc.) though what about making the Soap bubble 18+ after hours?

Why not take 1 year to test run what AX does at their dances? The have almost 4 times the amount of people going to their con and if they can impliment it it should be possible for a smaller con. Overall the first few hours are all ages (though I would suggest making it 17 and under) and then after a certain time it is 18+ can go in with photo id it would probably help breakup some of the line since in theory people under 18 would be getting into line early to get in and then those 18 and over wouldn't be getting into line for another few hours. Overall since I believe Rosemont curfew is the same as Chicago's on weekends at 11p.m. the dance would go 18+. If you follow AX's dance times then the 1st 3 hours of the dance would be under 18 and then it would probably take 30 minutes to clear the room and another 30 to refill it and then the last 3 hours at 18+. Since the soap bubble tends to run longer than the hours could be adjusted to be even or 18+ could just be there longer since in theory older people would be up later. While this may tick off some under 18 people who want to party til 4 am it would help with the lines. Also as a perk it would really help me not potentionally talking to jailbait -.-

[nephia]

Kasemei, on May 20 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

I especially like this idea because of two reasons. One, it alleviates the space issue. Two, it gives leeway for different types of music to be played. While I personally did not liike the music being played at the Groove, other people definetly did. Two soapbubbles-two sets of music for different tastes.

Yeah maybe we could get some real music played....ya know the kind you hear when you go clubbing....I like alot of techno, but not most of the stuff that was being played at the bubble, and I HATED the crap that was played at the Undcer Ground Groove, I think if Techno absolutly has to be played at the buble that Greg should be spinning the bubble and noone else! He is the worlds greatest dj, and I would really like to know what on earht people were thinking when they didn't slate greg to spin the bubble, it certainly would have been worth the 2 1/2 hour wait I had to endure just to get in, oh and then the other half hour wait that had to be endured to get back in because I had to exit to go potty! Personally unless Gregs spinning the rave, it's going to be a JOKE!

[The Dam Kim]

mmy-sama, on May 21 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

At reactor one year, they did something similar, when they had two separate dances going on at the same time.

Then I'm sure our Soap Bubble/Underground Groove organizer has considered this before: it's the same guy.

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 02:00 PM, said:

I don't know what the taboo is at ACEN about following the successful examples of other cons. We'll still be the biggest and have our distinguishing factors (no other can has a car show, for instance) if we follow examples that work.

Believe me, MAPS and ACen keep open communications with many other cons. Many of our staff work at and run those other cons. The issue with taking pointers from cons like AX and Otakon is that they receive far more sponsorship from the industry, while ACen prides itself on being a con run by fans for fans.

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 02:00 PM, said:

If Anime X-Plosion can get 20,000 people through registration with less than two hours wait time, and we can't get 12K through without a nine-hour wait, what are THEY doing that we're NOT doing?

By Anime X-Plosion, I'm assuming you refer to Anime Expo, which did not incur a DDoS attack during the con, but I agree that we should cut the link between registration and the Internet.

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

If the only person who refuses to even consider this idea is the Department Head for this event, who seems to think everything is peachy-keen the way it is...I have another reeeealllly good radical idea.

It's time for a new department head!

Keep in mind that the organizer has explicitly asked for feedback, and he definitely has considered it (see reply to mmy-sama). And no, it's not time for a new department head. Allen is quite experienced in running these things, and I'm tempted to say that it's to his credit that ACen's dances outshine those of other cons.

[saiyajinimport]

The Dam Kim, on May 21 2008, 02:38 PM, said:

Then I'm sure our Soap Bubble/Underground Groove organizer has considered this before: it's the same guy.


Believe me, MAPS and ACen keep open communications with many other cons. Many of our staff work at and run those other cons. The issue with taking pointers from cons like AX and Otakon is that they receive far more sponsorship from the industry, while ACen prides itself on being a con run by fans for fans.


By Anime X-Plosion, I'm assuming you refer to Anime Expo, which did not incur a DDoS attack during the con, but I agree that we should cut the link between registration and the Internet.


Keep in mind that the organizer has explicitly asked for feedback, and he definitely has considered it (see reply to mmy-sama). And no, it's not time for a new department head. Allen is quite experienced in running these things, and I'm tempted to say that it's to his credit that ACen's dances outshine those of other cons.

thanks alot Adam.

[Dogao]

Oh yeah, I definitely get the sensation you're open to feedback by "no, that creates more problems than it solves though I'm not going to tell you what any of them are" and "ours MUST be better, based on the fact that nobody has required a hospital stay yet, and it MUST be because of the DH so we're not changing anything lol omg anime."

So if we're all-knowing and so open to new ideas, what went wrong at Anime Reactor that rules out the two-dance possibility?

And don't bother mentioning anything alcohol-related or age-restrictive: those are both suggestions no one has made.

It would Just. Be two. Dances.

Let me simplify things. If you make a cake for your friends, and 15% more of them want cake every year, you don't just make a bigger freaking cake each time.
You make TWO SMALLER CAKES. Especially if the Cake Line lasted two hours and left you in the rain.

And one final point: let's all learn an important lesson about Accountibility: You Have To Explain Things To The People Who Are Giving You Their Money. If this is a craptastic idea, I want to know WHY before you go randomly dismissing it.

So what's the problem?

[Nameloc]

Dogao, on May 21 2008, 03:16 PM, said:

Oh yeah, I definitely get the sensation you're open to feedback by "no, that creates more problems than it solves though I'm not going to tell you what any of them are" and "ours MUST be better, based on the fact that nobody has required a hospital stay yet, and it MUST be because of the DH so we're not changing anything lol omg anime."

So if we're all-knowing and so open to new ideas, what went wrong at Anime Reactor that rules out the two-dance possibility?

And don't bother mentioning anything alcohol-related or age-restrictive: those are both suggestions no one has made.

It would Just. Be two. Dances.

Let me simplify things. If you make a cake for your friends, and 15% more of them want cake every year, you don't just make a bigger freaking cake each time.
You make TWO SMALLER CAKES. Especially if the Cake Line lasted two hours and left you in the rain.

And one final point: let's all learn an important lesson about Accountibility: You Have To Explain Things To The People Who Are Giving You Their Money. If this is a craptastic idea, I want to know WHY before you go randomly dismissing it.

So what's the problem?

I hate to rain on parades, but soap bubble should never be split into 2 parties. ever. Splitting the parties would take away from the vibe, not to mention, there might be people who want to see djs/performers in both dances, creating more lines, more hastle, more need for IRT, and more chaos. If you want to get into soap bubble, get there early. The room this year was a lot bigger than last year, and to my knowledge (correct me if i am wrong), the lines for sb and ug were a lot shorter (time wise).

as far as Anime Reactor goes, It was the largest nightmare I have ever played out at. No equipment, No security, No preparation, Nothing. I was running my cd players in mono without a mixer directly to the sound without a way to cue tracks. By far the most ghetto set up i have played on, but enough about bashing other cons, I had a blast at both parties. If soap bubble was not a part of acen, Cover could easily be set at 25 dollars.
Acen does it right and gives you your money's worth.

[Juri]

Hi all,

Please keep your comments civil and on the topic at hand. There is no need to call for firings OR to dismiss a good idea out of hand. I hate closing threads, so don't make me do it, mmkay?